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[Ooccoo]

"You shall not kill"

 

[RustyNails]

Can any of you tell which Surah the text is? My Arabic reading skills are too poor to read that.

Parts of Surah 18 and 20.

 

[Edzi]

Amazing!
That verse is آية الكرسي من سورة البقرة

No idea why you felt the need to type it in Arabic. Do you just not want people to understand you?

He said it's the verse of the throne, one of the most well known verses of the Quran (from the second chapter, Al-Baqarah)

 

[EGOMON]

Can any of you tell which Surah the text is? My Arabic reading skills are too poor to read that.

That would be Surat Al-Baqarah

 

[RiZ III]

Parts of Surah 18 and 20.

That would be Surat Al-Baqarah

Wait which ones? All three on two pages??

 

[Shadow_Lord]

Amazing!
That verse is آية الكرسي من سورة البقرة

The bottom or the top pic? Cause that Arabic is really hard to read for me.

 

[EGOMON]

No idea why you felt the need to type it in Arabic. Do you just not want people to understand you?

He said it's the verse of the throne, one of the most well known verses of the Quran (from the second chapter, Al-Baqarah)

Sorry will edit I didn't know the exact name of the verse in English

 

[RiZ III]

Sorry will edit I didn't know the exact name of the verse in English

Aayat al-kursi

Allah! There is no god but He - the Living, The Self-subsisting, Eternal. No slumber can seize Him Nor Sleep. His are all things In the heavens and on earth. Who is there can intercede In His presence except As he permitteth? He knoweth what (appeareth to His creatures As) Before or After or Behind them. Nor shall they compass Aught of his knowledge Except as He willeth. His throne doth extend Over the heavens And on earth, and He feeleth No fatigue in guarding And preserving them, For He is the Most High. The Supreme (in glory).(Al-Baqarah 2: 255)

Hear it recited:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=f83-eA_eJc8

 

[Heshinsi]

There shouldn't be any dots on the letters if it is indeed a decade or two removed from the Prophet. It was under Hajjaj ibn Yusuf that Arabic diacritics began. Ibn Yusuf was born some time in 661AD. How could there be dots if he is the person responsible for adding them into Arabic script?

 

[RustyNails]

Wait which ones? All three on two pages??

CNN said Surah 18 and 20

The two parchment leaves are believed to contain parts of Suras (chapters) 18 to 20, written with ink in an early form of Arabic script known as Hijazi.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/22/europe/uk-quran-birmingham-manuscript/index.html

 

[EGOMON]

The bottom or the top pic? Cause that Arabic is really hard to read for me.

Top picture left-bottom part and the whole bottom picture are same verse Ayat Al- Kursi from Suret Al Baqarah

Edit: RustyNails I think you are right, I can't confirm for sure the verse

 

[shinobi602]

There shouldn't be any dots on the letters if it is indeed a decade or two removed from the Prophet. It was under Hajjaj ibn Yusuf that Arabic diacritics began. Ibn Yusuf was born some time in 661AD. How could there be dots if he is the person responsible for adding them into Arabic script?

Didn't original Arabic letters have dots? The diacritics were added later to help with the correct pronunciation.

 

[Heshinsi]

Didn't original Arabic letters have dots? The diacritics were added later to help with the correct pronunciation.

Not really. Nearby alphabets like Syriac would have dots used here and there, but written Arabic didn't have it until at least the late 7th century. Native Arabic speakers never needed it to distinguish letter. It was put in for the non Arabic speaking populations that were now part of the Caliphate.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Britain never stops untill it steals cultural relics from every country known to man.

Maybe the only thing different about Britain when it comes to this is sometimes they go in collections that are not secret instead of being melted down or something.

 

[RustyNails]

More information here on the manuscripts

History Of The Manuscript[3]

This manuscript belongs to what is commonly known as the ‘Mingana Collection’. The core Mingana Collection, of manuscripts and manuscript fragments, was built up between 1924-29 through the common interest and energy of Dr. Edward Cadbury and Alphonse Mingana. Edward Cadbury, owner of family's chocolate factory at Bournville, sponsored Alphonse Mingana in three journeys to the Middle East, and subsequently engaged Mingana to catalogue much of the collection. This must represent one of the last such European Orientalist enterprises undertaken to scour the Middle East for manuscripts.

When Mingana worked in Manchester, from 1915-32, cataloguing the Arabic manuscripts of the John Rylands Library, Edward Cadbury sponsored him to undertake three journeys to the Middle East to collect manuscripts. In the spring of 1924 in Lebanon, Syria and Iraq, Mingana acquired twenty-two Arabic and some Syriac manuscripts for the John Rylands Library and other Syriac manuscripts for Cadbury. A visit in the autumn of 1925 to Syria, Iraq and South Kurdistan yielded mostly Syriac manuscripts with some Arabic. Another in 1929 to Sinai Peninsula (St. Catherine's monastery) and Upper Egypt produced mostly Arabic manuscripts, with some Coptic and Greek.

It is not clear where the present manuscript, i.e., M. 1572, was acquired. It could have come from Iraq, Syria or Egypt. A recent study by Fedeli suggests that M. 1572, Marcel 17 (National Library of Russia) and Ms. 67 [Museum of Islamic Art, Doha (Qatar)] belong to the same codex.[4]

Script & Ornamentation

Ḥijāzī.

Manuscript on parchment. The pages have been wrongly folded, so that the text is disordered. The consonants are differentiated by dashes. The muṣḥaf is partly vocalised with red dots by a later(?) hand. Red punctuation dots and zigzag lines with ink dots separating sūrahs (fol. 1r) and barbed red design (fol. 3r). Six or three oval dots usually punctuate the verses. Every tenth verse is marked by a hollow circle surrounded by dots.

Not really. Nearby alphabets like Syriac would have dots used here and there, but written Arabic didn't have it until at least the late 7th century. Native Arabic speakers never needed it to distinguish letter. It was put in for the non Arabic speaking populations that were now part of the Caliphate.

It seems that the dots were added by someone later on

 

[DiipuSurotu]

ISIS will probably try to burn it.

That actually was my first thought as well... They would try to burn it as somehow un-Islamic or whatever, if they owned it.

 

[xbhaskarx]

I wonder what it says.

I bet the whole 72 virgins thing was a typo...

 

[_Nemo]

http://islamqa.info/en/10012

That explains it pretty well how the Quran was put together.

 

[Lubricus]

After the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah in 628, Islamic tradition holds that Muhammad sent many letters to the princes, kings, and chiefs of the various tribes and kingdoms of the time, inviting them to convert to Islam. These letters were carried by ambassadors to Persia, Byzantium, Ethiopia, Egypt, Yemen, and Hira (Iraq) on the same day.[15] This assertion has been brought under scrutiny by some modern historians of Islam—notably Grimme and Caetani.[16] Particularly in dispute is the assertion that Khosrau II received a letter from Muhammad, as the Sassanid court ceremony was notoriously intricate, and it is unlikely that a letter from what at the time was a minor regional power would have reached the hands of the Shahanshah.[17]

I imagine they sent copies of the Koran with the letters. It would be something if this was a fragment of one of those.

 

[Rabbi_Vole]

Are there any illustrations?

 

[Rest]

How interesting. Things like this always stir up the imagination.

Also, that's some nice handwriting.

 

[CitizenCope]

"Whatever you do, don't hurt anyone over the following text. I cannot stress this enough."

Haha that was good.

 

[RustyNails]

I imagine they sent copies of the Koran with the letters. It would be something if this was a fragment of one of those.

Nope he didn't send copies of Quran with those letters.

 

[Terra Firma]

It's really not too difficult to read. It's the end of Surah Maryam and the beginning of Surah Ta-Ha.

 

[waypoetic]

I bet the whole 72 virgins thing was a typo...

That's not even in the Quran

 

[Prine]

Fascinating discovery, personally a little emotional.

Just knowing this was written by someone that was within the Prophets attendance is incredible. Wonderful find. I'm just scanning the characters imagining the process.

Sheep skin would have been expensive I assume? Was this common?

 

[bigboss370]

I find it insane that over a millennia later, current day quran is practically unchanged from the original text.

 

[Lemaitre]

As someone who studied a bit of Islam in college (but not Muslim) this find even made me excited. I can't wait to watch the video when I get home from work.

 

[RK9039]

I bet the whole 72 virgins thing was a typo...

Nice try.

 

[nib95]

Amazing discovery. Hope they do put it on public display, as I'd love to have a look at it. Just to better gauge the calligraphy, style, look, use of Arabic etc.

 

[Dryk]

ISIS will probably try to burn it.

If not ISIS then I'm sure the Romans will rise from the dead to take up the challenge. The Middle East has never been a particularly safe place for literature

 

[RustyNails]

If not ISIS then I'm sure the Romans will rise from the dead to take up the challenge. The Middle East has never been a particularly safe place for literature

Since when?

 

[Hypemaster]

This is cool.

 

[Estocolmo]

Pretty fascinating stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jowQond7_UE

Are the letters in dark green? If yes, why?

 

[LAM09]

An amazing discovery.

 

[Dryk]

Since when?

No you're right it wasn't more the entire Mediterranean region rather than just the Middle East. Historically the various factions living on either side of the sea didn't treat the other's libraries with much respect during their periodic invasions.

That said it's a trend you see in every war-torn region for the last 2000 years. The American Revolutionary War, The Bosnian War, World War II, The Lebanese Civil War. Warmongers and revolutionaries apparently have no respect for history.

 

[Shadow_Lord]

Top picture left-bottom part and the whole bottom picture are same verse Ayat Al- Kursi from Suret Al Baqarah

Edit: RustyNails I think you are right, I can't confirm for sure the verse

Ok, I did my research and that is 100% not Ayat Al-Kursi. In fact, the source is right and it is Sura number 20 (Surat Taha) due to the fact that it mentions Moses, and if you look closely it says Taha in the first line of the bottom half of the top pic.

 

[Laughing Banana]

That's not even in the Quran

Nice try.

What are you two doing replying to such a blatant display of stupidity? Waste of time.

On topic: what an amazing discovery.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

From my understanding Muhammad didn't write anything, he recited it and others wrote down what Muhammad said.

He was illiterate.

 

[Gorger]

If not ISIS then I'm sure the Romans will rise from the dead to take up the challenge. The Middle East has never been a particularly safe place for literature

The Islamic World was one of the few safe havens for literature during their golden age. Many works from the Greeks and the Classical era exists today because they were saved by them.

 

[RiverBed]

I would be so fascinated to read any remarks of daily life or notes that may be scribbles here and there. But given the circumstances, such writings are rare. It facinates me how mundane things that seemed unimportant at the time could be so informative/impactful centuries or millennials later. Isn't mentioned where they found it?

From what I could read on that picture it is exactly the same wording in our modern Quran

Modern arabic has dotted letters. Older Arabic, like the one in the manuscript pictured, did not. Also, they didn't have stress marks. Both of those change meaning of words and sentences. For example, even today, there are at least seven 'ways' to read the Quran; some instances the meaning is very different. I can read arabic, and old writings without dots- along with lack of stresses and punctuation- but it isn't as easy as reading modern Arabic. Heck, the pictures lines don't even have verse beginnings or ends. It's like a very long un-punctuated running sentence. Interesting from a linguistic point of view, for one.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Translation of one of the pages :

1. Ta, Ha.

2. We have not sent down to you the Qur’an that you be distressed

3. But only as a reminder for those who fear [ Allah ] –

4. A revelation from He who created the earth and highest heavens,

5. The Most Merciful Istawa (rose over) the Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty).

6. To Him belongs what is in the heavens and what is on the earth and what is between them and what is under the soil.

7. And if you speak aloud – then indeed, He knows the secret and what is [even] more hidden.

8. Allah – there is no deity except Him. To Him belong the best names.

9. And has the story of Moses reached you? –

10. When he saw a fire and said to his family, “Stay here; indeed, I have perceived a fire; perhaps I can bring you a torch or find at the fire some guidance.”

11. And when he came to it, he was called, “O Moses,

12. Indeed, I am your Lord, so remove your sandals. Indeed, you are in the sacred valley of Tuwa.

13. And I have chosen you, so listen to what is revealed [to you].

The Quran matches word for word the text in this

 

[triplestation]

that is incredible

 

[Currygan]

Simon Le Bon must be rejoicing

jk, this is fascinating

 

[Maninthemirror]

I bet the whole 72 virgins thing was a typo...

Oops there is no 72 virgins concept in the Quran. Heaven is a place for souls not human bodies, there is no physical gender as both women and men are equal levels of soul in afterlife and there is thus no concept of sex as there is no human body. When Quran mentions the valley and streams in heaven it shows men how the soul would feel it because God is engaging man on his level on earth as heaven is another dimension entirely.

 

[nailbombxx]

Amazing discovery. This stuff really spurs your imagination.

 

[Walpurgis]

Translation of one of the pages :




The Quran matches word for word the text in this

This honestly kind of scares me.

 

[Laughing Banana]

Oops there is no 72 virgins concept in the Quran. Heaven is a place for souls not human bodies, there is no physical gender as both women and men are equal levels of soul in afterlife and there is thus no concept of sex as there is no human body. When Quran mentions the valley and streams in heaven it shows men how the soul would feel it because God is engaging man on his level on earth as heaven is another dimension entirely.

Come on man, have you not participated in enough Islam related threads to see patterns in some users? He's not interested in any kind of explanation that you or any of us can offer.

Although hmmm.... it may be good nonetheless to explain so others can see I guess.

This honestly kind of scares me.

Scares you? In what way?

 

[Walpurgis]

Scares you? In what way?

I already knew that it was one of the originals, but seeing the translation makes it more real. I feel like I am being spoken to directly when reading it, since I feel it has a closer connection. It's hard to describe, but it doesn't feel like reading a regular Quran.

 

[shinobi602]

Translation of one of the pages :




The Quran matches word for word the text in this