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[Laughing Banana]

I already knew that it was one of the originals, but seeing the translation makes it more real. I feel like I am being spoken to directly when reading it, since I feel it has a closer connection. It's hard to describe, but it doesn't feel like reading a regular Quran.

I can understand. Especially since there's a possibility that it was made by someone directly acquainted with Prophet Muhammad SAW. It feels a bit unreal.

Tha fact that what was written there matches word by word with contemporary Quran is amazing as well!

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

Modern Qur'an uses dots, this changes pronunciation and meaning of words. Even though the words are the same, what is the right way the words are supposed to be read is important.

But amazing that the words are in the same order. The Qu'ran promises it will stay the same even if muslims don't make an effort, and it is quite amazing to see it is living up to its promise.

 

[m_shortpants]

Britain never stops untill it steals cultural relics from every country known to man.

For once, Britain's megalomaniac tendencies comes in handy!

ISIS would probably have burned it lol

 

[orochi91]

For once, Britain's megalomaniac tendencies comes in handy!

ISIS would probably have burned it lol

So goddamn true.

I will begrudgingly be grateful to the UK for plundering this treasure.

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Really hoping for a nice documentary on History channel.

So fascinating! I showed the youtube video to my dad and he loved it! He has the Koran memorized.

 

[Shaanyboi]

Guess they'll have to sail across the channel first :lol

Pfft... everyone knows ISIS agents can't cross water!

...or wait... maybe that's witches....

 

[Night_Knight]

.

 

[99hertz]

What's the half life of nitroglycerin?

 

[Recidivus Crimen]

Heard about this today. Really fascinating from a Muslim perspective but also from a historical one. It's surreal imagining that one of the Salaf may have written it.

 

[Lamel]

The fact that it matches perfectly is god damn incredible. Passing a book on through 1400 years without losing authenticity is unheard of.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Pretty cool.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Britain never stops untill it steals cultural relics from every country known to man.

Collects. Not steals. Collects.

The manuscript is part of the Mingana Collection of more than 3,000 Middle Eastern documents gathered in the 1920s by Alphonse Mingana, a Chaldean priest born near Mosul in modern-day Iraq.

He was sponsored to take collecting trips to the Middle East by Edward Cadbury, who was part of the chocolate-making dynasty.

 

[Recidivus Crimen]

The fact that it matches perfectly is god damn incredible. Passing a book on through 1400 years without losing authenticity is unheard of.

Like others have mentioned the Quran was memorised as well as written so there would have been a lot of double checking. But yea its still incredible when you factor in the potential for human error.

 

[Permanently A]

word for word match. wow. amazing discovery

 

[Miles Quaritch]

The fact that it matches perfectly is god damn incredible. Passing a book on through 1400 years without losing authenticity is unheard of.

Like others have mentioned the Quran was memorised as well as written so there would have been a lot of double checking. But yea its still incredible when you factor in the potential for human error.

word for word match. wow. amazing discovery

A small part of me kinda hoped it would be different. Like a case of some verses lost to time, but I guess that was a silly thing to hope for.

Would make it this discovery much more fascinating.

 

[Switch Back 9]

Then you have the 489 different versions of the Bible that every sect claims is the right one.

 

[Lazyslob]

.

 

[Musician]

Even as a non religious person this find fascinates me immensely! I can't begin imagine what an actual believer must feel! I'm actually jealous!

It sounds strange, but I think congratulations are in order.

 

[Ikael]

A friend of mine is Muslim and told me he recognized the text and what chapters they're from right away. Arabic was hard to read but he knew from what he reads today. Really neat.

This is so fucking awesome. And the Throne verses as well! Some muslim friends of mine told me that these particular verses were of extreme importance from a theologic point of view, for they condensed the "image of God" that Mohammed wanted to present (more "Cosmic preserver" than vengeful old testament deity).

Anyway, this is great! As a Christian I wish our Biblical text would have been as faithfully preserved and transmited as the Quran was

Spoiler

I would have still loved to see one "unknown quoranic verse", if only for plot twist shake. Perhaps the punctuation in Arabic is that important up to the point that it has the power change the entire meaning of quotes altogether?

ISIS will probably try to burn it.

If it would be up to ISIS, they would try to ban Islam altogether. I mean, if you're going full retarded bigot, you must walk the entire path up to its logical conclussion.

Since when?

Since the mongols shacked Bagdag

 

[Prine]

Pfft... everyone knows ISIS agents can't cross water!

...or wait... maybe that's witches....

Didn't you hear fox news? Birmingham is a terrorist state.

 

[Se7enSword]

Are the letters in dark green? If yes, why?

Because it looks cooler.

 

[Estocolmo]

Because it looks cooler.

Thats what i also thought, it looks cooler. But any other reason than that?

 

[EdwardTivrusky]

Thats what i also thought, it looks cooler. But any other reason than that?

Perhaps the pigmentation in the inks they used have changed over time? I know fountain pen ink looks very different as it dries and ages. I'd suspect the same has happened here.

 

[DiipuSurotu]

Only one version of the Quran and yet there are hundreds of different sects in Islam.

Just goes to show that any text can say anything that the reader wants it to say.

 

[Newtype-001]

Translation of one of the pages :




The Quran matches word for word the text in this

https://youtu.be/AwGxhNR-CZA
wow

 

[RustyNails]

Today's Quran text superimposed on the parchment:

 

[RustyNails]

Only one version of the Quran and yet there are hundreds of different sects in Islam.

Just goes to show that any text can say anything that the reader wants it to say.

There are actually only two sects within Islam and their disagreement is political in nature, i.e, succession of Ali, the Prophet's cousin. Sunnis claim that a Caliph must be elected and is not assigned by anyone whereas Shias believe Muhammad divinely appointed Ali to be the Caliph.

The rest of the sects are largely within Shiism where they disagree on the succession of Imamate.

 

[RiZ III]

The fact that this old text matches what we have today might seem surprising to non-Muslims or Muslims not familiar with the Quran I suppose, but to me it's completely expected. What people unfamiliar with the text don't realize is how well the Quran actually flows when recited. If parts of it went missing somehow or were changed, it would stick out like a sore thumb. This is especially true with surahs Taha and Maryam, both which have amazing flow and beautiful rhyming pattern to them. Quranic text is very different from Biblical text which is mostly written in a more textbook or historical format by different authors in different countries over the span of hundreds of years in very different styles. The Quran on the other hand flows almost like a song, especially when recited properly.

 

[retardedrockstar]

Not sure if it not changing is a good thing tbh.

Well, to be honest, if these are the words of God, what right do we have to change them?

 

[Se7enSword]

The fact that this old text matches what we have today might seem surprising to non-Muslims or Muslims not familiar with the Quran I suppose, but to me it's completely expected. What people unfamiliar with the text don't realize is how well the Quran actually flows when recited. If parts of it went missing somehow or were changed, it would stick out like a sore thumb. This is especially true with surahs Taha and Maryam, both which have amazing flow and beautiful rhyming pattern to them. Quranic text is very different from Biblical text which is mostly written in a more textbook or historical format by different authors in different countries over the span of hundreds of years in very different styles. The Quran on the other hand flows almost like a song, especially when recited properly.

Indeed! Also, I wouldn't call it like a song, or even like poetry. It is something majestic that surpasses them both.

If one with knowledge hears it, and understands the language, they should have no doubt in their hearts with ease.

Well, to be honest, if these are the words of God, what right do we have to change them?

Exactly! God knows best.

 

[Walpurgis]

The Qur'an's Challenge: A Literary & Linguistic Miracle

“If you are in doubt of what We have revealed to Our Messenger, then produce one chapter like it, call upon all your helpers, besides Allah, if you are truthful.” Surah al-Baqarah (The Heifer) 2: 23.

“Or do they say: “He (Prophet Muhammad, ) has forged it (this Qur’an)?” Nay! They believe not! Let them then produce a recitation like it (the Qur’an) if they are truthful.” Surah at-Toor (The Mount) 52: 33-34.

According to Qur’anic commentators such as Ibn Kathir, Suyuti and Ibn Abbas, these verses issue a challenge to produce a chapter that imitates the unique literary form of the Qur’an.[12] The tools needed to meet this challenge are the finite grammatical rules and the twenty eight letters that make-up the Arabic alphabet; these are independent and objective measures available to all. The fact that it has not been matched since it was revealed does not surprise scholars familiar with the Arabic language and that of the Qur’an.

I found this article very informative about the differences between the Arabic language's conventions and the Qur'an. It even goes into some attempts to replicate the Qur'an, which I was not aware of. It's really long and detailed though.

 

[Lamel]

The fact that this old text matches what we have today might seem surprising to non-Muslims or Muslims not familiar with the Quran I suppose, but to me it's completely expected. What people unfamiliar with the text don't realize is how well the Quran actually flows when recited. If parts of it went missing somehow or were changed, it would stick out like a sore thumb. This is especially true with surahs Taha and Maryam, both which have amazing flow and beautiful rhyming pattern to them. Quranic text is very different from Biblical text which is mostly written in a more textbook or historical format by different authors in different countries over the span of hundreds of years in very different styles. The Quran on the other hand flows almost like a song, especially when recited properly.

I've heard it recited and I agree it can sound very poetic; the rhyme scheme is also surprisingly apparent.

 

[Hyperactivity]

There shouldn't be any dots on the letters if it is indeed a decade or two removed from the Prophet. It was under Hajjaj ibn Yusuf that Arabic diacritics began. Ibn Yusuf was born some time in 661AD. How could there be dots if he is the person responsible for adding them into Arabic script?

If that was true, how would they differentiate between ب ت ث?


Pretty sure you're thinking of arabic vowels, which were added later

If not ISIS then I'm sure the Romans will rise from the dead to take up the challenge. The Middle East has never been a particularly safe place for literature

Ignoring the whole Abbasids transcribing classical works of literature to preserve them for the future and stuff like that

I can understand. Especially since there's a possibility that it was made by someone directly acquainted with Prophet Muhammad SAW. It feels a bit unreal.

Tha fact that what was written there matches word by word with contemporary Quran is amazing as well!

The Qu'ran museum in the shrine of Imam Reza was crazy for me. There were so many versions of the Qu'ran from that time period, and all of them had a similar effect

 

[HeySeuss]

Does the fragment smell like sulpher and brimstone? Because according to my Facebook feed that book must've been written in the bowels of hell itself.

 

[orochi91]

Today's Quran text superimposed on the parchment:

Simply gorgeous.

Though I'm grateful that the fonts were changed over the centuries because the originals are difficult to read (but gorgeous nonetheless).

Does the fragment smell like sulpher and brimstone? Because according to my Facebook feed that book must've been written in the bowels of hell itself.

Lol

Unless the ink is made from fish blood, I'd assume the fragments smell fine :3

 

[CarpeDeezNutz]

Wow, I would like to see that. My old boss/friend has a page from like the 1500s

 

[shinobi602]

There are actually only two sects within Islam and their disagreement is political in nature, i.e, succession of Ali, the Prophet's cousin. Sunnis claim that a Caliph must be elected and is not assigned by anyone whereas Shias believe Muhammad divinely appointed Ali to be the Caliph.

The rest of the sects are largely within Shiism where they disagree on the succession of Imamate.

Aren't there multiple schools of thought within Sunnism? Hanafi, Hanbali, Shaafi, Maliki, Wahhabi, etc?

 

[Se7enSword]

Aren't there multiple schools of thought within Sunnism? Hanafi, Hanbali, Shaafi, Maliki, Wahhabi, etc?

Hanafi, Hanbali, Shaafi and Maliki are Sunni schools of jurisprudence. Only these 4.

Wahabbi etc are nothing like that.

 

[Sajjaja]

Aren't there multiple schools of thought within Sunnism? Hanafi, Hanbali, Shaafi, Maliki, Wahhabi, etc?

Wahhabism is a political revivalist movement of the mid/late 1800s, not to be mixed up with the Hanafi, Hanbali, Shaafi, Maliki schools of thought. Those schools of thought are more about practice/ritualistic differences rather than fundamental religious differences. So no, not sects.


It's my understanding that those who understand and are well acquainted with Arabic and classical Arabic don't really use the dots and such when they write because they understand it as it is and it is much faster to write down. It's remedial to them, at least this is what my Imam (studied in Egypt, moved to Canada) told me as that was his experience. That doesn't mean it is as such in this case but I'm just thinking in regards to the reasons.

 

[Despera]

I don't know what's more fascinating, the age of these pages or the fact I can read what's written on them with relative ease.

 

[Wiktor]

Translation of one of the pages :




The Quran matches word for word the text in this

That's dissapointing. I mean...it's awesome for muslims, but for anyone else the juiciest parts of texts like those is the new stuff. Is there anything in those texts that was previously unknown?

 

[orochi91]

That's dissapointing. I mean...it's awesome for muslims, but for anyone else the juiciest parts of texts like those is the new stuff. Is there anything in those texts that was previously unknown?

Considering how the Quran is renowned for having remained unchanged throughout its history, there likely won't be anything different or new in these fragments.

 

[speculawyer]

So is this something from before they burned all the other versions and thus different or is this just a really early copy of the official canon version that they created?

Edit: Looks like it was from before the canonization. Nice.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Quran

 

[Laughing Banana]

That's dissapointing. I mean...it's awesome for muslims, but for anyone else the juiciest parts of texts like those is the new stuff. Is there anything in those texts that was previously unknown?

If anything is any different that it'll disprove one of Islam's major teachings that Al Qur'an is a final revelation of Allah SWT (God) and thus should not and cannot be changed.

That this matches word to word with contemporary Qur'an is a great re-confirmation of that teaching and the extent Muslims adhere to that one rule.

 

[Jelly Rajah]

Ex-Muslim here. This is definitely an interesting discovery, but the Quran (I say this having read it twice in both Arabic and English) is a somewhat unsatisfying text for something that has apparently come directly from the creator of the universe. Some questionable verses:

4:34
"Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand."

9:29
"Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled."

24:2
"The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse - lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, and do not be taken by pity for them in the religion of Allah , if you should believe in Allah and the Last Day. And let a group of the believers witness their punishment."

2:282
"O you who have believed, when you contract a debt for a specified term, write it down. And let a scribe write [it] between you in justice. Let no scribe refuse to write as Allah has taught him. So let him write and let the one who has the obligation dictate. And let him fear Allah , his Lord, and not leave anything out of it. But if the one who has the obligation is of limited understanding or weak or unable to dictate himself, then let his guardian dictate in justice. And bring to witness two witnesses from among your men. And if there are not two men [available], then a man and two women from those whom you accept as witnesses - so that if one of the women errs, then the other can remind her. And let not the witnesses refuse when they are called upon. And do not be [too] weary to write it, whether it is small or large, for its [specified] term. That is more just in the sight of Allah and stronger as evidence and more likely to prevent doubt between you, except when it is an immediate transaction which you conduct among yourselves. For [then] there is no blame upon you if you do not write it. And take witnesses when you conclude a contract. Let no scribe be harmed or any witness. For if you do so, indeed, it is [grave] disobedience in you. And fear Allah . And Allah teaches you. And Allah is Knowing of all things."

 

[Laughing Banana]

Ex-Muslim here. This is definitely an interesting discovery, but the Quran (I say this having read it twice in both Arabic and English) is a somewhat unsatisfying text for something that has apparently come directly from the creator of the universe. Some questionable verses:

It's like you take a look at the subject of the thread, ponders a bit, and then immediately goes on a tangent about something that is a wayy different subject than the actual topic of the thread.

 

[Shibalan]

I can barely imagine how it feels to be that researcher who, by staring intensively at a book, can say "you know what guys ? This paper looks crazy old". And then you're right.

Must feel so good.

 

[orochi91]

I can barely imagine how it feels to be that researcher who, by staring intensively at a book, can say "you know what guys ? This paper looks crazy old". And then you're right.

Must feel so good.

It's criminal that these documents sat there for decades without no one knowing of their existence.

Every Museum/Library/Research Institute should go through all their old unsorted shit and see what's there.

I bet so many other lost treasures are sitting there, begging to be rediscovered :/

 

[Lamel]

It's criminal that these documents sat there for decades without no one knowing of their existence.

Every Museum/Library/Research Institute should go through all their old unsorted shit and see what's there.

I bet so many other lost treasures are sitting there, begging to be rediscovered :/

I'd like to see what is lost up in the vatican archives.

 

[Dark Rider]

I'd like to see what is lost up in the vatican archives.

That would be grand but would the vatican allow it?