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[Dr. Black Jack]

My wife and I were big "fuck this cell shaded bullshit" Wind Waker skeptics back in the day. We were dead wrong and loved playing through WWHD on the Wii U; it now stands as one of our favorite Zelda entries.

That said, we've been randomly discussing Zelda stuff lately and realized that a big part of why we were so dismissive of WW was because we had already been burned by Majora's Mask. Yeah yeah "cult classic" whatever, have fun with it, but at the end of the day it wasn't the followup to Ocarina that people actually wanted. Then the Spaceworld trailer comes out and looks like an actual OoT follow up, then bam, Wind Waker instead.. It seems like a lot of people, myself and my wife included, were in the "fool me once" catagory and didn't give WW the time of day.

If Nintendo had went straight from OoT to WW would the reception have been better?

 

[En-ou]

Huh? What cold reception? The game is a masterpiece.

 

[Makonero]

Nope. "Kiddy bullshit" was the battlecry of the day. Wind Waker was the biggest target, but Mario Sunshine, Pikmin, Animal Crossing and all of Nintendo's games were called out as kiddy. It was the height of the console wars and we all lost. So no, unless the game had looked exactly like the tech demo, they were always gonna get shit on.

 

[Toxi]

Wind Waker would have been more warmly received if they actually finished the game so it would have a proper number of dungeons and no triforce hunt padding bullshit.

 

[The Elite]

I thought all the kiddish arguments were a reaction to the original demo they showed of Zelda running on Gamecube that featured an adult Link.

Maybe teen link.

 

[gogojira]

It was the spaceworld tech demo that threw people off

 

[SunBroDave]

No, Wind Waker would've gotten a better reception if it actually had more worthwhile content instead of so much padding.

 

[Anth0ny]

No. celda would have still pissed everyone off regardless.

 

[Barry Burton]

Not from me. It was a huge drop in quality from MM as it was, and would have been an even bigger disappointment if that was the long-awaited follow-up to OoT.

(Though if they did have a couple extra years to work on it and actually released a finished game, it could have been amazing)

 

[Kill3r7]

It would not have mattered, as other posters already mentioned there was a different mindset to games at that time. Nintendo was making "kiddie" games and that was not a good look for many teenagers at the time. Ironically teens today would eat it up. How the gaming landscape has changed over the last 15 years.

 

[Con_Smith]

I tell you what you not gonna do OP. You not gonna even throw a hypothetical that posits Majoras Mask never existed. Especially for that bloated yet lovable Wind Waker.

 

[Berordn]

I love Wind Waker all the same but everyone else is right about it having less meaningful content than either predecessor.

Still a ton of sidequests but the padding drags the whole thing down.

 

[SatoAilDarko]

No.

Majora was pretty clearly a weird Zelda that repurposed Ocarina assets. I doubt its existing had any effect on what people expected of the next "true" Zelda Entry.

 

[krumble]

I thought all the kiddish arguments were a reaction to the original demo they showed of Zelda running on Gamecube that featured an adult Link.

This is the real answer and nothing to do with MM

Nintendo showed a demo of adult link - next time it's seen it's toon link and Zelda fans go apeshit

Personally at the reveal of toon link my jaw dropped (as it did many times throughout the game) - but it was very much a case of gamers at the time thinking anything "kiddie looking" was beneath them

 

[JCH!]

Huh? What cold reception? The game is a masterpiece.

High five. Probably my favourite Zelda outside of OoT/BoTW. Game just oozes charm.

 

[hoserx]

Huh? What cold reception? The game is a masterpiece.

were you there when it was teased, previewed, and released? There were a lot of edgelords making their opinions known at the time.

 

[Pagusas]

I don't like you or your wife's opinion OP

 

[Glitchesarecool]

Wind Waker had a warm reception, it was just a shitload of internet nerds that couldn't handle a new art style.

 

[Madness]

No. Nintendo was stuck between PS2 and Xbox. They were seen as kiddy and making Link look like a toon, and cel-shaded graphics and tingle did not help. People were playing things like GTA 3, Halo etc. Majoras Mask had nothing to do with the hate Wind Waker got. And it was their loss. Wind Waker is one of the best games of all time.

 

[Lights and Waves]

No? Majora's Mask had nothing to do with it. Wind Waker received backlash because of the art style. That's the only reason.

Nowadays people criticize it because of the padding, but back then it was pretty innovative and the game was acclaimed.

 

[Finale Fireworker]

I don't think the existence of Majora's Mask had any bearing on Wind Waker at all. It was always going to be compared to Ocarina of Time no matter what.

Wind Waker was a hard sell because it's not how people wanted their games to look at the time, especially a series that had ambiguous graphics that could have really gone either way. You can look at OoT and see a game striving for adult pseudo-realism or as a cartoon just waiting to smooth out its edges. At that time, people had a particular image of what the next Zelda would look like in their minds, and I don't think it had to do with the Space World demo either.

The fact is that, no matter what you expected Zelda to look like after 2000, it almost definitely was not Wind Waker. Few games at all looked like Wind Waker. How you dealt with the surprise of a series you thought should look very different was always going to create confusion and animosity.

I am able to appreciate WW in retrospect and I like it a lot NOW. But there was nothing you could have done to impress me with it back then. It was such a different time. It was a time without whimsy.

 

[Dr. Black Jack]

Huh? What cold reception? The game is a masterpiece.

Straight from the horse's mouth.

 

[SmokedMeat]

I think after Ocarina's style and the GameCube tech demo fans were expecting a more realistic look for Zelda. Despite the initial balking at the look, people came around by the time it released.

 

[UnemployedVillain]

MM had nothing to do with anything. It was mostly people wanting the same art style as OOT and expecting the game to look much darker

 

[En-ou]

were you there when it was teased, previewed, and released? There were a lot of edgelords making their opinions known at the time.

Yes, I watched the spaceworld 'mature' demo on dial up. And everything after. Lots of dudebro gamers complained about the art style. But when the game released the critical reception was quite amazing. And today it's considered timeless due to that very art.

 

[nubbe]

Huh? What cold reception? The game is a masterpiece.

GAF was in meltdown when toon link was unveiled

 

[Laieon]

Wind Waker is my favorite game of all time and I think it's significantly better than Majora's Mask in every way outside of maybe pacing.

The art style is my favorite part of the game, but I definitely think it was a larger part of the reception Wind Waker got then Majora's Mask was.

 

[Apathy]

Peoples biggest issue with ww when it came out was art style not cause if mm.

 

[TheDinoman]

GAF was in meltdown when toon link was unveiled

Does anyone have a link to a 2002 Wind Waker thread from GAF of old? That'd be pretty interesting to see.

 

[Chuckie]

No it had nothing to do with Majora's Mask.

Speaking of MM....did it even do good commercially? I know it is a huge cult hit right now (and rightfully so) but was it big back then? I for one never bought it on the N64 (I bought it on the 3DS)

 

[Smellycat]

Does anyone have a link to a 2002 Wind Waker thread from GAF of old? That'd be pretty interesting to see.

I don't think GAF was around in its current state. I think it was called gaming age forums

 

[Ninja Scooter]

Majora had nothing to do with WW's reception. It was a different time and place in gaming. We were in a transition period where the cutesy platforms and/or family oriented Japanese games that had been so bankable in prior gens had given way to a much bigger focus on gritty, "mature" western games. Stuff like Halo and GTA3 were far more in vogue, and in the early 00s Nintendo didn't quite have the kitschy nostalgia hook, and gaming was much more image conscious, so Nintendo coming out with a purple lunch box console and a Zelda game that looks like a Tex Avery cartoon (especially after reading a "mature" Zelda at the GC reveal, even if it was just a tech demo) the reception was far different than it would have been 10-15 years later.

 

[linkboy]

The only way the next Zelda after Majora's Mask wouldn't have gotten criticized is if it looked like that.

Going from that to

this, didn't help things either.

 

[En-ou]

GAF was in meltdown when toon link was unveiled

I know the trailer reception had our bruhs complaining because they can't see past graphics. But the reception of full game is stellar. The only two complaints I remember were: need more islands and triforce hunt.

 

[DealWithIt]

I think what hurt WW was the CG footage of what became twilight princess. Games were still pushing for realism and "life-like" graphics. Wind Waker was ahead of its time, pushing art style over that. People were really disappointed by WW after seeing that CG fight between Ganon and Link.

Also MM was a masterpiece and everybody knew it even then.

 

[KevinG]

I remember vividly how disappointed I was when Wind Waker was revealed.

I had just turned 12, and was hyped for the GameCube in a big way, but this reveal made me feel embarrassed to be playing such a "kiddy" looking game. It was a weird time, and I loved the game when it was released, and bought a Wii U for the HD version (and for the new Zelda, which I ironically sold the Wii U for, in order to afford a Switch at launch).

I still loved Nintendo, but kept it to myself as I was pushed toward the more edgy Xbox with Halo and Dead or Alive. The GameCube sold like it did because the perception on them was of a kids-only console, and to a certain extent, that perception still stands.

 

[Village]

Huh? What cold reception? The game is a masterpiece.

Its art style was received poorly at the time, and is one of the driving factors as to why twilight princess is the way it is, and then twilight princess was received super well at the time and drove that point home.

So yes it actually had a cold reception and the cold reception it got vs Twilight princesses warmer one is one of the greatest peices of contention in zelda to date.

 

[NoKisum]

The Wind Waker reveal was what pushed me to finally pick up a Gamecube.

 

[LordRaptor]

The only way the next Zelda after Majora's Mask wouldn't have gotten criticized is if it looked like that.

And ironically that looks like shit compared to OG screenies of WW to contemporary eyes

 

[wrowa]

MM had nothing to do with anything. It was mostly people wanting the same art style as OOT and expecting the game to look much darker

Yup. OoT defined people's image of what Zelda should look like in 3D and Wind Waker went into a completely opposite direction of that. It's really as simple as that.

And, to be fair, the first Toon Link teaser did look quite bad.

 

[hoserx]

Yes, I watched the spaceworld 'mature' demo on dial up. And everything after. Lots of dudebro gamers complained about the art style. But when the game released the critical reception was quite amazing. And today it's considered timeless due to that very art.

I don't think the OP was about whether the game was good or not, he was talking about the reactions it caused, the reception it received.... it reviewed mostly well, but the sentiment you refer to as "dudebro gamers complaining" was quite significant.

 

[Village]

Wind Waker had a warm reception, it was just a shitload of internet nerds that couldn't handle a new art style.

It didn't.

Its literally why twilight princess exists.

Wind Waker is the MGS2 of zeldas , it had to sit for a while for people to like it.

And much like MGS2, its also my favorite, or at least in this case one of ( my favorite is minish cap)

 

[_Rob_]

And ironically that looks like shit compared to OG screenies of WW to contemporary eyes

And until recently was still the king of cel shaded graphics, at least the benchmark. (Atlhough now Ni No Kuni or BOTW could take that crown). An art style always ages better than the pursuit of realism.

 

[Horns]

From what I recall it was very well received at launch. Wish I still had my pre-order bonus disk, it's now worth a fortune.

 

[Thud]

I think Majora's Mask gave Nintendo the idea they could produce Zelda games on a quicker schedule.

Obviously that didn't work. Wind Waker still suffers from it. Majora's Mask did not.

 

[Narpas Sword0]

A lot of people forget that it wasn't just the art style, it was the Looney Tunes jokey shit in the original trailer. Enemies literally run off a ledge and don't fall until they look down like Wile E Coyote. That stuff got removed from the final game so people now assume that the "haters" hated toon Link and cel shading rather than the original goofball tone.


If that Spaceworld video showed the open ocean, the battle with the dragon, or the sunken Hyrule Castle I bet the reception would have been very different. Those are the things people like about WW today.

 

[fredrancour]

no. it still would've felt like a random style change to lots of fans that wanted a more conventional OoT 2 along the lines of the tech demo. for those people, it would've still been just as off-putting after 5 years without a console zelda as it was after 5 years with only something closer to a side-story.

 

[En-ou]

I don't think the OP was about whether the game was good or not, he was talking about the reactions it caused, the reception it received.... it reviewed mostly well, but the sentiment you refer to as "dudebro gamers complaining" was quite significant.

Ok yeah. It def caused some reactions. I was on the side where I welcomed it because I know in the end it's Zelda.

 

[Labombadog]

It was the spaceworld tech demo that threw people off

Yep. I still remember the negative reaction back in the IGN board days. haha

 

[VDenter]

Wind Waker is just as good as Majora so i am not sure what the point here is?