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[Conkersbadfurday]

Is there an acceptable level of semicolons to have in a book? I know I tend to get distracted by them if there are too many, but I also don't think the punctuation mark is entirely off limits.

Sometimes it's nice.

But I also have like 50 of them in a 320 page book, and that's at least 20 too many. Probably.

 

[Ashes]

Is there an acceptable level of semicolons to have in a book? I know I tend to get distracted by them if there are too many, but I also don't think the punctuation mark is entirely off limits.

Sometimes it's nice.

But I also have like 50 of them in a 320 page book, and that's at least 20 too many. Probably.

I agree with you. 30 or 31 is just right. For a 320 page book. Now if it was a 330 page book, 50 would be fine.

 

[aidan]

Is there an acceptable level of semicolons to have in a book? I know I tend to get distracted by them if there are too many, but I also don't think the punctuation mark is entirely off limits.

Sometimes it's nice.

But I also have like 50 of them in a 320 page book, and that's at least 20 too many. Probably.

It's em-dashes for me—they're just so bloody versatile.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

It's em-dashes for me—they're just so bloody versatile.

I like em, but I also read a book that had like six per page and now i never use them.

When you start COUNTING a punctuation mark, you know someone did something wrong

Last book I read with tons of semicolons would have up to five per page sometimes. It was just distracting. Plus all of those lazily stuck together simple sentences. Ugh.

I agree with you. 30 or 31 is just right. For a 320 page book. Now if it was a 330 page book, 50 would be fine.

I feel like you're making fun of me

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

When a publishing house asks for

Market analysis, including research on competitive titles

What all does that entail? Thinking of sending my book to this publishing house and that's all that's giving me pause.

Hate to doublepost, but I'm still kinda looking for an answer to this question. I've been told to just compare it to other books in the genre, so in my case The Dark Tower and maybe Redwall, but I also figure they might want some raw numbers too? Not sure if I could realistically get those though.

My big hook is talking animals, but that might be what drives some away for obvious reasons. I'd like to kind of...upsell that more than anything, but I don't want to sound defensive either.

So yeah. Thoughts?

 

[FlowersisBritish]

Hate to doublepost, but I'm still kinda looking for an answer to this question. I've been told to just compare it to other books in the genre, so in my case The Dark Tower and maybe Redwall, but I also figure they might want some raw numbers too? Not sure if I could realistically get those though.

My big hook is talking animals, but that might be what drives some away for obvious reasons. I'd like to kind of...upsell that more than anything, but I don't want to sound defensive either.

So yeah. Thoughts?

I dunno, you are ahead of the game than me as far as I'm concerned(I think you are so rad for even contacting agents btw) Try talking about the success of Watership down and the lack of mainstream talking animal books as of late. Tell them there is a niche waiting for something new. It sounds like they want you to sell it as a product and supply and demand are the big things when selling product. Is there a demand for your product of animal talking 'Dark Tower-esqe' adventures and is the demand currently being fulfilled by someone else? No? Hey, look at all that money on the table. If they counter saying talking animal books aren't popular, counter them again with the success of Watership down, a talking animal adventure consistently rejected because people didn't think there was a market for it.

 

[MilkBeard]

Hate to doublepost, but I'm still kinda looking for an answer to this question. I've been told to just compare it to other books in the genre, so in my case The Dark Tower and maybe Redwall, but I also figure they might want some raw numbers too? Not sure if I could realistically get those though.

My big hook is talking animals, but that might be what drives some away for obvious reasons. I'd like to kind of...upsell that more than anything, but I don't want to sound defensive either.

So yeah. Thoughts?

I did a quick search and found this: What's the purpose of a market analysis in your book proposal?

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

Is there an acceptable level of semicolons to have in a book? I know I tend to get distracted by them if there are too many, but I also don't think the punctuation mark is entirely off limits.

Sometimes it's nice.

But I also have like 50 of them in a 320 page book, and that's at least 20 too many. Probably.

I avoid them because I'm not entirely sure when I should use them. I need to brush up on grammar game period. I ain't bad, but there are so many times where I question how punctuate a particular kind of speech.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

I did a quick search and found this: What's the purpose of a market analysis in your book proposal?

That is helpful! I find it depressing that a publishing house wouldn't have its own marketing department. That's kinda part of the reason why you seek one out. If i knew a thing about marketing, I'd have a very different job--and probably more money.

Anyhow, this is what I've drafted thus far. Curious as to what ya'll think and maybe how to end it if I'm on the right track. I'm also tempted to put footnotes for hte novels I namedrop so I can describe their plots at the bottom. Though it helps that all the books I namedrop are really really fucking popular (and also some of my favorite novels since they are what inspired this project)

When it comes to placing The Ninth Life on a store shelf, it’s very much high fantasy; however, it’s a novel that’s less about the quest and more about the characters. If I were going to compare it to any of the high-fantasy novels I’ve read, I’d put it next to Stephen King’s The Dark Tower over The Lord of the Rings. Kitgazka’s quest for the door to the afterlife is akin to Roland’s quest to find the Dark Tower. Both act as personal obsessions—as hopes for salvation—and it isn’t until closer to the end of their journeys that the world-affecting implications are revealed.

Neither knows they are trying to save the world until they’re actually saving the world.

If The Dark Tower is The Ninth Life’s older brother, then Brian Jacques’s Redwall is its younger brother. Both novels exist in worlds populated entirely by talking animals, and the general fantasy settings are the same: in the distant past where swords and armor act as the primary tools of war. The big difference is that The Ninth Life isn’t a kid’s book, so all of the black-and-white morality has been removed and the world itself is more developed in terms of species hierarchy.

Not all carnivores are evil, and not all rodents are saving the day, but big animals are generally on the top of the societal ladder and little animals are generally stuck as farmers/slaves/the working poor. Anthropomorphic animals or not, the food chain can’t be entirely ignored.

I consider the above two novels as The Ninth Life’s siblings, which leaves Neil Gaiman’s American Gods as, perhaps, a distant cousin or close family friend. Gaiman uses a series of, “Coming to America” chapters to help build his urban-fantasy world, and I’ve done the same with a set of eight, “Reliving the Past” chapters. Each chapter delivers a snapshot of Kitgazka in his previous lives, building up both his past and the world around him. They help map his downward spiral into obsession and desperation.

We are, I believe, at the beginning of a new boom in fiction featuring anthropomorphic animals. A movie like Zootopia doesn’t make $75 million dollars its opening weekend on kids and their parents alone. There is a desire for the talking-animal aesthetic as kids who grew up with Disney, Brian Jacques, and Watership Down become adults with children of their own. Talking animals are nostalgic! They’re also fun and offer new ways to build worlds and create conflict.

If Zootopia’s family-friendly nature doesn’t feel like the most apt example here, then perhaps Image Comic’s The Autumnlands: Tooth and Claw will. This high-fantasy series (whose characters almost entirely consist of anthropomorphic animals) has been running since late 2014 and will continue to at least the middle of 2016 when its second major arc is concluded. I imagine it will then be renewed for a third arc based on critical feedback and the fact that it’s wonderful.

 

[JaseMath]

Serious question for aspiring/published writers:

How often (if ever) do you doubt what you're writing? Is it normal to be really excited about something only to look back on it 2 days later and think, "This sucks. I suck. No one will read this."

 

[Mike M]

Serious question for aspiring/published writers:

How often (if ever) do you doubt what you're writing? Is it normal to be really excited about something only to look back on it 2 days later and think, "This sucks. I suck. No one will read this."

Honestly, not frequently, but I revise extensively and usually get it into fighting shape. If I can't, I have people who can advise on how to fix something, because sometimes I know there's something wrong only I'm too close to see it.

It's less "this sucks" and more "I can fix this."

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

Serious question for aspiring/published writers:

How often (if ever) do you doubt what you're writing? Is it normal to be really excited about something only to look back on it 2 days later and think, "This sucks. I suck. No one will read this."

Depends on the project. I didn't start loving my current novel until draft four when I sucked it up and set out to fix everything I hated about it.

Now I'm like, "fuck this might be a good book" but the first few hundred hours were pretty much me being stubborn and self doubt.

I still pingpong around with other projects, if they're shit or not. I don't expect that to ever go away.

 

[StrongBelwas]

Serious question for aspiring/published writers:

How often (if ever) do you doubt what you're writing? Is it normal to be really excited about something only to look back on it 2 days later and think, "This sucks. I suck. No one will read this."

I think it might also depend how much writing you do. I still haven't written anything to completion since school and I get what you are describing but I think a lot of it is mental. I find when I try to write my brain will do everything it can to interrupt, halt and all together stop the writing process.

 

[aidan]

Serious question for aspiring/published writers:

How often (if ever) do you doubt what you're writing? Is it normal to be really excited about something only to look back on it 2 days later and think, "This sucks. I suck. No one will read this."

That's called a first draft. They always suck. The second draft is less sucky, the third even less sucky, and so forth.

 

[FlowersisBritish]

Serious question for aspiring/published writers:

How often (if ever) do you doubt what you're writing? Is it normal to be really excited about something only to look back on it 2 days later and think, "This sucks. I suck. No one will read this."

Try to hold onto that excitement, that's what I do. As to doubts? They come and go. Sometimes I look at a thing and just frown. Sometimes it's a slog to an ending, so I just cut right to it. The stories I write that I really care about have a level of excitement in them though, there are scenes I just really wanted to see, or themes I really wanted to hear. When editing, if the story had potential, some of that excitement returns and I want to work on that story just a little more. Don't ask if someone will read it, ask if you will read it. Ask if it's something the 'you' of three years ago might read through to the end?

 

[JaseMath]

Thanks for the encouragement, guys. I don't literally think my stuff sucks, but going back a re-reading syntax you get a different view once the excitement settles. I'll keep pushing!

 

[Fuu]

Honestly, not frequently, but I revise extensively and usually get it into fighting shape. If I can't, I have people who can advise on how to fix something, because sometimes I know there's something wrong only I'm too close to see it.

It's less "this sucks" and more "I can fix this."

This is the ideal headspace to be in imo. It's probably the thing I love the most about writing and what keeps me doing it: it's one of the few activities where polishing a turd can actually turn it into gold. And even when I end up not using a single word from the first draft of a chapter, having actually typed it is still part of the process to produce a better one in its place later. A 1000 words of shitty writing is always better than none at all.

 

[Reedirect]

Serious question for aspiring/published writers:

How often (if ever) do you doubt what you're writing? Is it normal to be really excited about something only to look back on it 2 days later and think, "This sucks. I suck. No one will read this."

I doubt it sometimes, especially when writing about themes I'm not entirely familiar with, but are essential to the story at hand. Most of these are actually much less problematic than they seem and can easily be fixed in later drafts. At the time of writing, though, I don't always think about it this way.

 

[Syncytia]

Honestly, not frequently, but I revise extensively and usually get it into fighting shape. If I can't, I have people who can advise on how to fix something, because sometimes I know there's something wrong only I'm too close to see it.

It's less "this sucks" and more "I can fix this."

This is exactly where you want to be doing creative work. The feeling of 'I suck, everything I create sucks' is common for anyone just starting out. Or it could also mean you have room to learn what exactly is wrong with your work, the reason why you think it sucks. Once you get more experience fixing what you don't like, you can begin to understand the pieces that don't actually suck and have potential, and the ways it needs to change to improve it. It takes a lot of practice to get to that point. You have to have a lot of "this sucks" pieces that you don't like, and then not only work on them and improve them to your liking, but also understand how you made it better.

As a musician, I'm pretty firmly in the "I can fix this" camp, as a writer, I'm somewhere in between that and the "this sucks" camp. I've played and written music for so many years that if I write a melody I don't like, I immediately know if I want to ditch it or if there is a piece in there that I want to keep to improve on. It takes awhile to get to that point. I'm still learning that as writer, but I have taken the approach of not deleting anything, at all, just in case there was actually something good hidden somewhere that I couldn't yet see.

Which reminds me... I haven't written anything for weeks.

 

[MattyG]

Serious question for aspiring/published writers:

How often (if ever) do you doubt what you're writing? Is it normal to be really excited about something only to look back on it 2 days later and think, "This sucks. I suck. No one will read this."

I doubt it all the time, but I often realize that there are ways I could fix it that I'm just unable to see at the time I'm doubting it. I think doubt is a natural part of writing though, at least until you've reached the point where people are reading your material and giving positive reassurance.

 

[Crimson_Justice]

But there's another headspace us beginners can be in, too, and that's believing it's perfectly fine to suck.

The "I suck" mentality was suffocating me whenever I tried to write anything substantial. I couldn't get any words to come out; I was stuck on how bad everything already on the page was and how that meant I was a sucky writer, and lots of times it would end up with me telling myself I'd never publish something. But, somehow, I eventually realized exactly what these guys are saying - I may not be able to fix it yet, but if I keep writing, I'll gain the skills to be able to fix it later. So, it's okay to suck right now, because it's a necessary step in order to develop as a writer. Sucking is a temporary thing, something we need to just get out of our system.

Since then, I've actually completed a novel. Yes, it sucks, no one would ever enjoy it, but whatever. My next one will suck less. And the ones after that, even less.

 

[JaseMath]

Is there anyone here willing to read two chapters (plus a prologue) for critiquing purposes? I need to take a step back, but I'm so close to the work that I can't possibly be impartial.

 

[Mike M]

Is there anyone here willing to read two chapters (plus a prologue) for critiquing purposes? I need to take a step back, but I'm so close to the work that I can't possibly be impartial.

Word count?

 

[JaseMath]

Word count?

I can send the prologue over if you're willing. 1,715 words; about 8 pages.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

Is there anyone here willing to read two chapters (plus a prologue) for critiquing purposes? I need to take a step back, but I'm so close to the work that I can't possibly be impartial.

Upload it to a google doc or something and PM me the link. I'll try and get to it this weekend.

 

[FlowersisBritish]

So what's everyone been working on lately?

Been busy trying to finish up a first draft of a novel and some other short story projects. I've been trying to keep track of big short story antholgies coming up. The one I'm most looking forward to is a haunted house anthology at the end of the month

 

[Delio]

So what's everyone been working on lately?

Been busy trying to finish up a first draft of a novel and some other short story projects. I've been trying to keep track of big short story antholgies coming up. The one I'm most looking forward to is a haunted house anthology at the end of the month

Reworking the first draft of my novel and planning other things. Slow going right now but I want to take it into hyper drive now.

 

[Thatonemoor]

So finally getting back to working in this thing. Hoping to finish the current chapter soon.

 

[Conkersbadfurday]

About halfway through my fourth draft of my current novel. It's going alright yet, though I feel like certain pieces of conflict get resolved too easily on this go through.

The thing is, it's mostly a character vs the self, so the BIG conflict is just my protag dealing with clinical depression and some very dark philosophical views. It might not be as much of a problem as I think, but I dunno.

I told myself I"d never write a book like that, and then I did and now I have to deal with it

 

[Soulfire]

Trying to come up with a title for my new series. I hate titles. I have a theme for the series so I was able to come up with a book title fairly easy, but the series title is being difficult. It's a Sci-Fi romance, main character is a strong alien female, her man is a rogue prince, the two other crew members are a psychic and a man obsessed with Earth soap operas. First book is titled Guiding Light, second will be Search for Tomorrow, third will be The Edge of Night. I'm trying to work in a lot of Soap Opera clichés cause it amuses me. Any help with a title would be welcome.

 

[Mike M]

Space Soap Opera

 

[Soulfire]

Space Soap Opera

lol I think that might be too on the nose, but thanks

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

.

 

[Mike M]

lol I think that might be too on the nose, but thanks

Maybe put it in Latin to intimidate the plebs.

Spacius Operanus Soapium

 

[Pazu]

So what's everyone been working on lately?

Been busy trying to finish up a first draft of a novel and some other short story projects. I've been trying to keep track of big short story antholgies coming up. The one I'm most looking forward to is a haunted house anthology at the end of the month

Laboring away at the second draft of a steampunk adventure novel, which will be the first novel of mine to reach real readers. It's about gambling on things, and right now I'm gambling that I finish this draft by the end of July. On Chapter 10/27!

 

[Soulfire]

Maybe put it in Latin to intimidate the plebs.

Spacius Operanus Soapium

I laughed. Thanks for the help.

 

[FlowersisBritish]

Trying to come up with a title for my new series. I hate titles. I have a theme for the series so I was able to come up with a book title fairly easy, but the series title is being difficult. It's a Sci-Fi romance, main character is a strong alien female, her man is a rogue prince, the two other crew members are a psychic and a man obsessed with Earth soap operas. First book is titled Guiding Light, second will be Search for Tomorrow, third will be The Edge of Night. I'm trying to work in a lot of Soap Opera clichés cause it amuses me. Any help with a title would be welcome.

The Breathe Between Stars

Phantoms of Many Hearts

The Stage is the Sky

All The Stars our Audience

The Curtains Rise

*Something to play off the opera/stage play thing*

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

I've been trying to figure out this issue for over a week now and I think if I don't ask help, I could be stuck on this for months and I'm trying to finish this book by the end of the year.


My situation is as follows:

Three of my characters are on the run. One of them is concerned about her family and so she sends a clone of herself to check her family's house while she and the two others drive a friend's place to lay low. Nobody is at her family's house and one of the two others suggest to look for them after I spend some time at the friend's house.

The thing is I want to set up that the friend ain't really a friend and they end up getting caught, but if they get caught then the girl wouldn't be able to look for her family. I don't think it would be believable if they managed to escape they would be heavily outnumbered and if I have her find her family then I don't see how the villains will eventually find them as the family managed to up and disappear without anyone noticing.

I'm not sure if I explained this well.

 

[AngmarsKing701]

I've been trying to figure out this issue for over a week now and I think if I don't ask help, I could be stuck on this for months and I'm trying to finish this book by the end of the year.


My situation is as follows:

Three of my characters are on the run. One of them is concerned about her family and so she sends a clone of herself to check her family's house while she and the two others drive a friend's place to lay low. Nobody is at her family's house and one of the two others suggest to look for them after I spend some time at the friend's house.

The thing is I want to set up that the friend ain't really a friend and they end up getting caught, but if they get caught then the girl wouldn't be able to look for her family. I don't think it would be believable if they managed to escape they would be heavily outnumbered and if I have her find her family then I don't see how the villains will eventually find them as the family managed to up and disappear without anyone noticing.

I'm not sure if I explained this well.

What if the story is really about the clone. Once set on the search for the family, the clone won't stop searching.

 

[Santiako]

I've been trying to figure out this issue for over a week now and I think if I don't ask help, I could be stuck on this for months and I'm trying to finish this book by the end of the year.


My situation is as follows:

Three of my characters are on the run. One of them is concerned about her family and so she sends a clone of herself to check her family's house while she and the two others drive a friend's place to lay low. Nobody is at her family's house and one of the two others suggest to look for them after I spend some time at the friend's house.

The thing is I want to set up that the friend ain't really a friend and they end up getting caught, but if they get caught then the girl wouldn't be able to look for her family. I don't think it would be believable if they managed to escape they would be heavily outnumbered and if I have her find her family then I don't see how the villains will eventually find them as the family managed to up and disappear without anyone noticing.

I'm not sure if I explained this well.

What if they clone she said she sent to look for her family is really her, and she actually left a clone with her friends.

 

[NipplesAndToes23]

What if the story is really about the clone. Once set on the search for the family, the clone won't stop searching.

Whoops, perhaps I should give a bit more information. This girl has multiple powers, but can only tap into one at a time. With her clone ability she can only create one clone at a time, but it only lasts while she's conscious and will automatically disappear if it's about 200 miles away from her in distance.

Edit:

What if they clone she said she sent to look for her family is really her, and she actually left a clone with her friends.

Actually, that's an idea. I'm not sure how smart it would be though because they wanted her to send the clone there because they knew the villains are potentially watching the house expecting her to show up.

Edit 2: Thanks, I think I can make this work somehow. Appreciate it.

 

[Mike M]

Last couple rejections haven't been form letters.

Progress!

 

[Soulfire]

Just published my eighth SciFi romance.
By the time I finish all the rounds of edits and everything else I'm so ready to be done that I have a hard time caring any more. I pretty much enter fuck it mode and I have to fight with that and end up triple checking everything to make sure it's all right, which just makes me hate everything even more.
I can't even say I'm done yet because as soon as it's live I have to send out an email notifying my mailing list and update social media and my website. Then I have to start writing the next one.
Tired.

 

[FlowersisBritish]

Last couple rejections haven't been form letters.

Progress!

Woot! Validation your efforts matter! Out of curiosity what things have you been sending out?

 

[Mike M]

Woot! Validation your efforts matter! Out of curiosity what things have you been sending out?

These two were Drums of the Trireme and Calling Upon the Master. Both of which happen to be my best reviewed pieces in recent memory.

I have a few others I like enough to submit around. I'm apparently a fantasy writer.

 

[Dresden]

So what's everyone been working on lately?

Been busy trying to finish up a first draft of a novel and some other short story projects. I've been trying to keep track of big short story antholgies coming up. The one I'm most looking forward to is a haunted house anthology at the end of the month

Hammered away on some short stories. Getting ready to write the Great American Novel, which I will call American Disillusionment. It will be big and it will be disillusionary.

 

[Freeza Under The Shower]

Just published my eighth SciFi romance.
By the time I finish all the rounds of edits and everything else I'm so ready to be done that I have a hard time caring any more. I pretty much enter fuck it mode and I have to fight with that and end up triple checking everything to make sure it's all right, which just makes me hate everything even more.
I can't even say I'm done yet because as soon as it's live I have to send out an email notifying my mailing list and update social media and my website. Then I have to start writing the next one.
Tired.

Hey you managed to make more of a job out of it than most posting here (... sorry peeps). To be honest I'm really impressed with how well that worked out, going from the early 'hubba challenge' to actually making an income out of it. ( I was always kind of thinking 'it can't be that easy' when Sirap was talking about it, if you know what I mean. Obviously it's not easy to do, but the principles versus marketability seem 'too easy' from the outside. Like YA novels, really. It's too bad he got himself permed somehow :\ )
It's only been a year or so, so that is really impressive. Murderous rate at which to write those novels (or are they novella's? Novella is between 10k and 50k words in most definitions), but the growth rate is a lot better than you would get from a linear 'by the hour' type job. Assuming you didn't dip down for some reason that is, aside from the changes in how borrows are paid now.

 

[MilkBeard]

These two were Drums of the Trireme and Calling Upon the Master. Both of which happen to be my best reviewed pieces in recent memory.

I have a few others I like enough to submit around. I'm apparently a fantasy writer.

Definitely keep shopping those around. At least one of them is bound to get picked up somewhere.

 

[SolVanderlyn]

Showed the first six chapters of my YA novel to some of my students and they loved it! Coming on 115,586 words now. Gonna try to finish it within the next three or four months.

Then it's editing time.

 

[aidan]

Showed the first six chapters of my YA novel to some of my students and they loved it! Coming on 115,586 words now. Gonna try to finish it within the next three or four months.

Then it's editing time.

How long do you expect it to be when you're done? 115k is already exceptionally long for a YA novel, which could make it a hard sell.aybe pitch it as a trilogy?