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[StevieP]

i would say nintendo, and super nes are aimed at the core market. There main selling points were advanced graphics, great games, and tons of thirdparty support, of course the controls were also an evolution.

Controllers didn't require degrees in gameology to operate, and game design didn't require one to keep track of 60 different things to proceed back then. You'll likely find that the audience of folks who played games in that era more diverse than the ever-shrinking/consolidating and entirely adolescent-male dominated software support of today.

The family often joined in ("family computer") and that's where the Wii returned to those ideals and where the Wii u threw them right into the toilet.

 

[Instro]

That's easier said than done, when the qualities required to succeed in the Western core console market have next to no overlap with their core competencies and recent history as a company.

For better or worse, their future in the hardware business depends on how much room is left in between the mobile and Sony/MS ends of the market, because they're in no position to compete directly with either, and they're not likely to catch lightning in a bottle again in a market where there's no real blue ocean left.

I lean towards pessimism here, clearly, but there's at least a chance they'll prove me wrong.

As do I, but people don't like it when the subject of Nintendo having to go 3rd party comes up.

Frankly they don't really have anything to lose by attempting to compete on all fronts. Their are many issues outside of their core competencies that need to be addressed if their hope is to improve their current situation.

 

[ninjablade]

They also came out over 25 years ago. There was no core market back then. They were toys being sold to children.

And so was the psx and ps2, mortal kombat, and street fighter both are were on super nes were those games just being sold to children, sure but they were the begining of trying to expand the the audience, the nes started the begining of the core market, tech got better controllers got better,simple as that. The n64 could have sold great if it wasn't for nintendo not giving a fuck about thirdparty's and going cartridge. Nintendo had the core market and let sony take it away by making dumb decisions.

 

[Papacheeks]

That's only if you solely look at their consoles, and that predicates that you ignore their first 2 consoles as well.

Edit: to kingsnake below: the ps4 is not like the Wii, in any respect. It is selling to the dedicated core market, not the mass market (yet). Unless it finds a way to appeal to the mass market, it will not reach the sales heights of the ps2 or even the ps1/Wii

The PS4 is like the Wii, it's doing what the Wii couldn't. Which is consistently get people to buy more software. Even Indie games, and the likes are being bought and played by more casual players.

Games like Rocket league which was free, still has a growing player base. Wii's software ratio for a consumer was mostly 19.99 shovel ware and the occasional popular Nintendo game like Mario KArt or the likes.

More games are being bought and streamed on these consoles than ps3/360 according to NPD, and analysts saying how digital sales have exploded.

 

[Fourth Storm]

Controllers didn't require degrees in gameology to operate, and game design didn't require one to keep track of 60 different things to proceed back then. You'll likely find that the audience of folks who played games in that era more diverse than the ever-shrinking/consolidating and entirely adolescent-male dominated software support of today.

The family often joined in ("family computer") and that's where the Wii returned to those ideals and where the Wii u threw them right into the toilet.

Ah, I remember the days of my mom giving Super Mario Bros 3 a spin. She was somehow an even worse player than myself.

I hear you on the differing demographics, Stevie. But then there's a game like Devil's Third, which Nintendo is publishing. Of course, I am well aware of budget (or lack thereof) D3 surely had in comparison to AAA. But this is Nintendo publishing an M-rated game, despite even recent comments about the industry's increasing focus on 18-35 yr old males (and mainly younger than 18 actually).

No regard for quality. No regard for tastefulness. They just published it because it was cheap and it would hopefully get people like us to shut up. It sends a very confused message in regards to their branding (which is the current topic, reminding myself). In my opinion, they should fund a larger budget M-Rated game for NX. If you're going to do something, for the love of god, do it right!

 

[Papacheeks]

Ah, I remember the days of my mom giving Super Mario Bros 3 a spin. She was somehow an even worse player than myself.

I hear you on the differing demographics, Stevie. But then there's a game like Devil's Third, which Nintendo is publishing. Of course, I am well aware of budget (or lack thereof) D3 surely had in comparison to AAA. But this is Nintendo publishing an M-rated game, despite even recent comments about the industry's increasing focus on 18-35 yr old males (and mainly younger than 18 actually).

No regard for quality. No regard for tastefulness. They just published it because it was cheap and it would hopefully get people like us to shut up. It sends a very confused message in regards to their branding (which is the current topic, reminding myself). In my opinion, they should fund a larger budget M-Rated game for NX. If you're going to do something, for the love of god, do it right!

Devil's third was a shit game that had train wreck written all over it when they were developing it for xbox360 and PS3.

They should have secured something from capcom for M rated exclusive.

 

[blu]

Jaguar is 2nd generation Bobcat microarchitecture, so yes. Puma is 3rd gen.

Just a nitpick: Puma is a die-shrink of Jaguar with some features removed. So technically AMD have not had a new efficiency-oriented x86 uarch for more than 2 years now.

ps: AMD are getting attacked frontally by ARM: http://anandtech.com/show/9743/arm-announces-new-cci550-and-dmc500

Whatever advantages have AMD had in the fabric/coherency space, are about to be subjected to major competition by ARM licensees next year.

 

[GhostTrick]

I've been thinking about this thing quite a bit lately.

Is there any hardware combo out there (CPU + GPU, APU, whatever) that might be feasible for Nintendo to leverage on economies of scale, so that they are able to use the exact same chip(s) on both form factors?
Or is it basically a non-issue, since it might turn out to be more important to just have a similar architecture/family (say, ARM) so they can still have common tools and the like?

[hope it's clear enough what I mean...]

Considering they might go for AMD and a semi-custom design, the answer is pretty clear to me: 1 design for the handheld with either 4 A53 cores or 2 A57+A53 for the CPU, 2 CU (128 shaders) for the GPU and 1 design for the home console with 8 A57 for the CPU, 8CU (512 shaders) for the GPU.
Basically, a 64~128gflops handheld and a 512~1024gflops home console.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Handheld = Targeted at Kids
Console = Targeted at Dudebros

Maybe.

I'm tired of dudebros. They only want one game or five games that play like one game. The market's spent enough time chasing after them.

They also came out over 25 years ago. There was no core market back then. They were toys being sold to children.

There was a core market back then; gamers just didn't care as much about labeling themselves "core" or "hardcore" or "casual". Also consoles weren't the only game in town; arcades and PC were very big and attracted mostly older gamers who definitely weren't children.

So yeah, the different "segments" like "core market" were around even back then.

 

[StevieP]

The PS4 is like the Wii, it's doing what the Wii couldn't. Which is consistently get people to buy more software. Even Indie games, and the likes are being bought and played by more casual players.

Games like Rocket league which was free, still has a growing player base. Wii's software ratio for a consumer was mostly 19.99 shovel ware and the occasional popular Nintendo game like Mario KArt or the likes.

More games are being bought and streamed on these consoles than ps3/360 according to NPD, and analysts saying how digital sales have exploded.

Citation required on the "most of wii's software didn't count because of x"

Indie software is healthy on Nintendo. Third party western aaa, not so much

 

[GhostTrick]

The PS4 is like the Wii, it's doing what the Wii couldn't. Which is consistently get people to buy more software. Even Indie games, and the likes are being bought and played by more casual players.

Games like Rocket league which was free, still has a growing player base. Wii's software ratio for a consumer was mostly 19.99 shovel ware and the occasional popular Nintendo game like Mario KArt or the likes.

More games are being bought and streamed on these consoles than ps3/360 according to NPD, and analysts saying how digital sales have exploded.

Sales wise, it seems to keep tracking down. As for you 19.99 shovel ware comment, it would be neat to point with something reliable other than "I think so, it must be true".

 

[Father_Brain]

As do I, but people don't like it when the subject of Nintendo having to go 3rd party comes up.

Frankly they don't really have anything to lose by attempting to compete on all fronts. Their are many issues outside of their core competencies that need to be addressed if their hope is to improve their current situation.

I see where you're coming from, I do, and I think that squandering N64's success with teen/adult Western male gamers is among the stupidest decisions NCL has ever made, but there's a point where the battle is already lost and attempting to refight it would amount to throwing money down a pit.

I'd say they passed that point several years back, frankly.

 

[Papacheeks]

Citation required on the "most of wii's software didn't count because of x"

Did you read my previous post? I explained what was most prevalent for software sales on wii. Wii SPorts, Wii SPorts resort, Wii fit, Mario Kart, Super mario Galaxy, smash.

Those if you actually look up are the biggest sellers in terms of first party. Games like Tiger Woods, I think chart, but so don't a lot of 19.99 shovel ware games.
And after 2010 that declined drastically. Right now we have a high adoption rate of digital titles on xbox and Playstation. Retail is still selling strong. Especially on Third party titles.

Never said Wii's games don;t count, my point was reoccurring sales from said customers who bought Wii for casual gaming. Games like Mario kart are so huge in charts because of the bundle and it's casual nature, anyone can pick it up and play.
The issue Nintendo has is when they sell a console to someone unless that person was already into Nintendo's library, the said customer is not buying multiple releases a year.

PS4 and XBox have had the same affect Wii had when it started out, people where going nuts over the console and buying pretty much any software that was released which is why Nintendo had record breaking sales for some of tehir First party IP's in first couple years.

But as time went on that declined steadily. Maybe retail for PS4 and xbox is steadily declining, but digital is rising. Smaller games are rising and being sold.
Nintendo has a hard time keeping people interested with their curated library, and having them continually buying within their ecosystem. People leave or become un-interested in the console over time, which is why right now it's mainly the Nintendo elite keeping Wii U alive right now.

 

[Vena]

The PS4 is like the Wii, it's doing what the Wii couldn't. Which is consistently get people to buy more software. Even Indie games, and the likes are being bought and played by more casual players.

It isn't, actually. Its tracking down, focused entirely on a diminishing 18-30 YM demographic, and (unlike any other leader of a gen) completely failed to engage casuals early on. Its struggle to engage younger/family audiences in NA/JPN is a glaring hole and marketing deals have failed to draw new audiences, their (Sony's) own family friendly games have completely dried up. When the YM audience dries up, there will be real problems in the market. Microsoft has actually tried to expand/secure its younger/casual audience with strategic buys (and they also have a large audience still on the 360 and in their ecosystem).

The Wii moved 9:1 software:user, up to and over 900 million units of software. It consistently managed to move software as well and any statement otherwise would simply be ignoring reality or shifting goalposts into orbit.

Games like Rocket league which was free, still has a growing player base. Wii's software ratio for a consumer was mostly 19.99 shovel ware and the occasional popular Nintendo game like Mario KArt or the likes.

Rocket League is an anomaly, and I doubt you actually have any quantifiable numbers for "its growing".

Did you read my previous post? I explained what was most prevalent for software sales on wii. Wii SPorts, Wii SPorts resort, Wii fit, Mario Kart, Super mario Galaxy, smash.

This is not true. 600 million units of software on the Wii were third party, over two-thirds of the total software was not Nintendo's (and the ratio shifts further if you remove the pre-bundled titles). Your narrative fails before it even begins in the face of facts.

 

[Turrican3]

Games like MArio Kart sold so well because it was bundled, and marketed with the Wii. Same goes for Super mario Galaxy press blew that game up.

What are you talking about?
Mario Kart sold TONS of copies stand alone, and IIRC Galaxy was never bundled, let alone blew up by the press (unless you meant New Super Mario Bros Wii)

They just published it because it was cheap and it would hopefully get people like us to shut up.

I think it's more like they did that to easily add a filler to the barren WiiU lineup. :-\

Considering they might go for AMD and a semi-custom design, the answer is pretty clear to me [...]

So, if your speculation is correct they would have a common architecture/CPU family but still different actual silicon, right?

 

[Who]

i really hope HD editions of the best 3DS games are available on the NX.

Imparticular I'd love to see Fire Emblem Awakening, Super Mario 3D Land, and ALBW

 

[Papacheeks]

It isn't, actually. Its tracking down, focused entirely on a diminishing 18-30 YM demographic, and (unlike any other leader of a gen) completely failed to engage casuals early on. Its struggle to engage younger/family audiences in NA/JPN is a glaring hole and marketing deals have failed to draw new audiences, their (Sony's) own family friendly games have completely dried up.

The Wii moved 9:1 software:user, up to and over 900 million units of software. It consistently managed to move software as well and any statement otherwise would simply be ignoring reality or shifting goalposts into orbit.



Rocket League is an anomaly, and I doubt you actually have any quantifiable numbers for "its growing".

This is not true. 600 million units of software on the Wii were third party, over two-thirds of the total software was not Nintendo's (and the ratio shifts further if you remove the pre-bundled titles). Your narrative fails before it even begins in the face of facts.

Here's top selling Wii software which is where I got my information from becuase VG chartz is not allowed.

What are you talking about?
Mario Kart sold TONS of copies stand alone, and IIRC Galaxy was never bundled, let alone blew up by the press (unless you meant New Super Mario Bros Wii)

Never said Galaxy, i strictly meant mario kart since it was heavily bundled. And all the press praise, and reviews made Galaxy continue to sell well into it's greatest hit collection or what ever Nintendo called their greatest sellers list.

 

[Vena]

Here's top selling Wii software which is where I got my information from becuase VG chartz is not allowed.

This has nothing to do with what I said.

I know Nintendo's numbers.

 

[GhostTrick]

What are you talking about?
Mario Kart sold TONS of copies stand alone, and IIRC Galaxy was never bundled, let alone blew up by the press (unless you meant New Super Mario Bros Wii)


I think it's more like they did that to easily add a filler to the barren WiiU lineup. :-\


So, if your speculation is correct they would have a common architecture/CPU family but still different actual silicon, right?

Yup. Basically, same architecture, with different core configuration.

 

[Vanillalite]

Considering they might go for AMD and a semi-custom design, the answer is pretty clear to me: 1 design for the handheld with either 4 A53 cores or 2 A57+A53 for the CPU, 2 CU (128 shaders) for the GPU and 1 design for the home console with 8 A57 for the CPU, 8CU (512 shaders) for the GPU.
Basically, a 64~128gflops handheld and a 512~1024gflops home console.

64 gflop for a Handheld in 2016 would be so disappointing.

Thankfully I think we will come in around the 128 gflop mark. Roughly equivalent to say the Adreno 330 (it wont be that obviously).

 

[Vena]

64 gflop for a Handheld in 2016 would be so disappointing.

Thankfully I think we will come in around the 128 gflop mark.

He's also an EXTREME pessimist.

 

[Papacheeks]

This has nothing to do with what I said.

I know Nintendo's numbers.

You said 600 million units were third party, My original response did not rule out third party software which is not what I'm talking about. I was strictly talking about Nintendo's OWN OUTPUT AND EXCLUSIVE THIRD party developed games.

Also I was going by that link when talking mostly of what matters right now for NIntendo. WHich is their own software.

My oringal response was outside of the ones I listed the rest that sold were third party ports(tiger woods, madden ect.)Plus stuff like Ninja bread man, M&M racers among ton's of other 19.99 priced games from no name developers.

 

[Turrican3]

Never said Galaxy

You literally said "same goes for Galaxy" right after the statement about bundling and marketing for Kart, so I think you were clearly implying the same factors inflated its numbers.

 

[Papacheeks]

You literally said "same goes for Galaxy" right after the statement about bundling and marketing for Kart, so I think you were clearly implying the same factors inflated its numbers.

It's not what I meant. I know it wasn't bundled, I should have elaborated. I meant all the good press, and reviews blew that game up and it sold well. MARIO Kart was the one I was talking about in terms of being heavily bundled. The bundle ran for a long time on store shelves.

 

[Boy Wander]

The actual software they sold outside of Key Legacy Franchises, and their Wii branded games were shovel ware.

95% of what they sold fall into the first 2 categories. I don;t get your point.
Also, Sonic sold really well on Wii as did Resident Evil. As did Kirby. As did Rabbids. As did Red Steel.

The eco system was there for pretty much any game to sell well. It wasn't with Wii U. That's what they need to address with NX.

 

[GhostTrick]

64 gflop for a Handheld in 2016 would be so disappointing.

Thankfully I think we will come in around the 128 gflop mark. Roughly equivalent to say the Adreno 330 (it wont be that obviously).

You have to keep in mind that the chip needs to retain its full capabilities. Take Samsung Galaxy S6, which as a 192gflops gpu. Because of the heat, it cant maintain its clockspeed for such power and needs to downclock nearly by twice.
Interesting article to read about that:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/9330/exynos-7420-deep-dive/7
Keep in mind that the Vita GPU is a 28gflops part for a 540p screen (even though it fails to aim at such resolution in a lot of cases). Just in raw power, it would be twice faster and that wouldn't be accounting how much faster and better the GCN architecture is compared to a 2009 power VR architecture.

He's also an EXTREME pessimist.

No, I just think that Nintendo wants their handheld to not overheat, to maintain the performance level constantly and more than 3 hours of battery life during gaming.

 

[Turrican3]

It's not what I meant. I know it wasn't bundled, I should have elaborated. [...]

Fair enough.
I'll refrain from further replying though, because I don't think talking about Wii software sales is relevant to the discussion about NX.

 

[Papacheeks]

95% of what they sold fall into the first 2 categories. I don;t get your point.
Also, Sonic sold really well on Wii as did Resident Evil. As did Kirby. As did Rabbids. As did Red Steel.

The eco system was there for pretty much any game to sell well. It wasn't with Wii U. That's what they need to address with NX.

Well this list from Wiki shows the sales, i don't know how accurate it is. But the top games are mostly the ones I listed as being the more prominent, and popular.

And my whole point is in what Nintendo has to focus on. Getting tiger woods or madden back on their system would be great i guess, but wouldn't have a long lasting impact like the first party games I listed will for the system.

Casual player's are not going to buy a Nintendo system to play sports games that are available and more prominent on PS4 xbox. But they might buy a NX to play sport's games thata re unique and unavailble everywhere else.

Think dreamcast sega 2k line. Nintendo could make their own arcade style lineup of sports games.

 

[Vena]

No, I just think that Nintendo wants their handheld to not overheat, to maintain the performance level constantly and more than 3 hours of battery life during gaming.

Oh come on, it was a joke.

My oringal response was outside of the ones I listed the rest that sold were third party ports(tiger woods, madden ect.)Plus stuff like Ninja bread man, M&M racers among ton's of other 19.99 priced games from no name developers.

And where is the evidence to this fact? The wiki list you provided doesn't even agree with this statement.

You're trying awful hard to attempt to discount the Wii's software while celebrating the PS4's. The former is in no way a threat to the latter unless trending comparatively lower (latter vs. former) is somehow a "threat" and not simply "market realities".

 

[10k]

You need industry leading chips to run the DNA created super Artificial Intelligence by Nintendo. It'll be called Iwata.

 

[GhostTrick]

Oh come on, it was a joke.

Well, I took it as a joke
But I just wanted to explain how not that much pessimistic it was
Then again, 64gflops is the very least I expect in their next handheld, which would put it in a comfortable price/performace range and the problem is that a lot of people think that if it's in a phone or a tablet, it can be realistically be in a gaming handheld.

 

[Fourth Storm]

95% of what they sold fall into the first 2 categories. I don;t get your point.
Also, Sonic sold really well on Wii as did Resident Evil. As did Kirby. As did Rabbids. As did Red Steel.

The eco system was there for pretty much any game to sell well. It wasn't with Wii U. That's what they need to address with NX.

Nintendo have destroyed that ecosystem with Wii U. During the Gamecube/early Wii era, Nintendo still had software support with games like Resident Evil 4, Metroid Prime 1-3, Zelda: TP, F Zero, etc. Don't get me wrong, it wasn't nearly enough, but it was enough that Wii enjoyed some degree of support from Nintendo's older demographic: People who played on N64 and maybe stuck with them through the Gamecube years or maybe did not.

Nintendo have increasingly moved away from where they stood even in the early Wii era. While I think part of it was that, when you have 100 million users, some are bound to be interested in Call of Duty and Resident Evil, that's not the whole story. There was a remnant of dedicated gamers who were there on Gamecube and, yes, Wii. They are not there on Wii U, and I don't think anyone knows for sure if they'll be willing to come back. Anyone saying they definitely would or would not is just talking out of their ass. Once Nintendo starts making the type of software they used to make, then we can say for sure.

 

[ozfunghi]

It was a shit post, sure... But did my point come across? Would Nintendo better focus on trying to peel people away from the ps4 by doing what they *dont* do, or would they be better doing trying to appeal to a different audience?

Honestly? Both. And if they indeed offer two platforms with a shared library, they could actually steal away some of the MS/Sony cake if the home console is capable to play some cutting edge games (of which you can play the watered down version on the handheld).

In my perfect world, I would buy one game , which i could install or download to both devices that would sync after each savegame. When i stop playing in front of the tv, i would ideally pick up the handheld when leaving the house and continue playing the (watererd down version of) the same game where i left off at home. Of course, if the home console is barely capable of edging out the portable (hyperbole) then i guess the incentive won't be nearly as big. The fact that they have a relatively healthy handheld ecosystem (still), might actually convince some 3rd parties to join in with their home console games (because they could also be sold on the, likely more successful, handheld).

 

[ninjablade]

There was a core market back then; gamers just didn't care as much about labeling themselves "core" or "hardcore" or "casual". Also consoles weren't the only game in town; arcades and PC were very big and attracted mostly older gamers who definitely weren't children.

So yeah, the different "segments" like "core market" were around even back then.

Exactly there was always core market, anybody who owned a nes wanted a super nes or genesis, same goes for those who owned those consoles everybody wanted the n64 and psx, everybody wanted an evolution in hardware. Better controller, better games, and better graphics, the wii on the other hand was just a fad craze that people got over and now nobody cares, nobody is hyped about motion controlled games anymore.

 

[10k]

The Iwata AI is the OS on all NX platforms.

"You've been playing for three hours straight it's time to save and take a break"

"Iwata please. I'm fine."

"Shutting down game and deleting save data in 3....2...."

"Ok! Ok! Geez!"

"Please Understand".

 

[James Scott]

They should focus on both. All market segments are pretty apathetic to their brand anyway.

Focusing on both should be wise.
They need as many unique users to buy at least one of the two. Trying to attract casual consumers (those that don't mind poor visuals for a small cost) on the portable and trying to attract core consumers (those that want the best experience and are willing to spend more on hardware and software) is probably the way to go.
They haven't gone for that crowd in awhile, the GCN arguably being the closest thing but it was a purple lunch box with small discs. They can either do a system with similar specs to Ps4 or surpassing it or a weak system being much cheaper. I think it would be wise to go for the more expensive core one but either way is fine if they can deliver a good price. If the console doesn't perform idealy they can continue to support it without compromising their sales with portable ports.

 

[methodman]

Honestly? Both. And if they indeed offer two platforms with a shared library, they could actually steal away some of the MS/Sony cake if the home console is capable to play some cutting edge games (of which you can play the watered down version on the handheld).

In my perfect world, I would buy one game , which i could install or download to both devices that would sync after each savegame. When i stop playing in front of the tv, i would ideally pick up the handheld when leaving the house and continue playing the (watererd down version of) the same game where i left off at home. Of course, if the home console is barely capable of edging out the portable (hyperbole) then i guess the incentive won't be nearly as big. The fact that they have a relatively healthy handheld ecosystem (still), might actually convince some 3rd parties to join in with their home console games (because they could also be sold on the, likely more successful, handheld).

I'd be so happy if this happened.

 

[ozfunghi]

That's the thing, though, another Jaguar design would be a lose-lose for nintendo. They'd be fragmenting their ecosystem for nil, given how they'd be in the exact performance bracket riding on AMD's A57s. So it boils down for them to either Zen, or no x86-64 at all. And AMD need to get those Zens rolling, or else.

Just a nitpick: Puma is a die-shrink of Jaguar with some features removed. So technically AMD have not had a new efficiency-oriented x86 uarch for more than 2 years now.

ps: AMD are getting attacked frontally by ARM: http://anandtech.com/show/9743/arm-announces-new-cci550-and-dmc500

Whatever advantages have AMD had in the fabric/coherency space, are about to be subjected to major competition by ARM licensees next year.

Some questions, Blu. You think it's realistic for them to go with Zen tech? I assume that by itself, that is meaningless, as i would also assume they could go with the weakest possible variation and remove some features on top of that as well, or would it actually give us any indication of what to expect performance wise? If so... what do you think?

Would it make sense to go with ARM for both devices? I would expect that there would be many benefits to this, but on the other hand, mortals like myself only really know ARM from portable devices. Is there anything keeping an ARM chip of being just as potent as a Zen chip? Let me rephrase: for the homeconsole, how would ARM and AMD (Zen) compare, what would be the pro's and cons?

 

[Shiggy]

Honestly? Both. And if they indeed offer two platforms with a shared library, they could actually steal away some of the MS/Sony cake if the home console is capable to play some cutting edge games (of which you can play the watered down version on the handheld).

In my perfect world, I would buy one game , which i could install or download to both devices that would sync after each savegame. When i stop playing in front of the tv, i would ideally pick up the handheld when leaving the house and continue playing the (watererd down version of) the same game where i left off at home. Of course, if the home console is barely capable of edging out the portable (hyperbole) then i guess the incentive won't be nearly as big. The fact that they have a relatively healthy handheld ecosystem (still), might actually convince some 3rd parties to join in with their home console games (because they could also be sold on the, likely more successful, handheld).

I think one major disadvantage would be that you only have digital games. People with a slow Internet connection may have trouble. And at least here in Europe Nintendo's attempts at selling digital download codes at retail was a huge failure. The Mario vs. DK games and NPFC landed in the bargain bin quickly (they were still more expensive than Face Training, which ended up costing 0.88€ lol).

 

[ozfunghi]

I think one major disadvantage would be that you only have digital games. People with a slow Internet connection may have trouble. And at least here in Europe Nintendo's attempts at selling digital download codes at retail was a huge failure. The Mario vs. DK games and NPFC landed in the bargain bin quickly (they were still more expensive than Face Training, which ended up costing 0.88€ lol).

Sure, there are many ways around that. Provide a retail version + free download for the other device. The MvsDK game isn't really indicative i think. People that would actually buy both consoles for the reasons i described above, would certainly do what it takes to download the free version on the handheld.

 

[StevieP]

Exactly there was always core market, anybody who owned a nes wanted a super nes or genesis, same goes for those who owned those consoles everybody wanted the n64 and psx, everybody wanted an evolution in hardware. Better controller, better games, and better graphics, the wii on the other hand was just a fad craze that people got over and now nobody cares, nobody is hyped about motion controlled games anymore.

Graphics weren't the driving force for any of these successes as far as I'm concerned. Hardware, on the other hand, did play a part. But I don't think the same way you want to infer. It enabled the software like Mario 64 or Final Fantasy 7 to exist. It was a means to an end, not the primary function. That's how the console market has operated. It's not about powerful hardware, it's about excavating your vision from said hardware.

The PSX, PS2, DS & Wii had software for *everyone*. Including "casual" software and casual support. So far, the current generation console leader does not (though the current generation leader does, its market is dwindling as well). The Wii U is drastically ill-equipped for the mass market in almost every way.

As far as motion controls and "fad craze", fad craze would infer that it wasn't the generational leader and didn't sell the most stuff. Well, that would be true because its handheld cousin took that generation away. Motion controls are in the most popular gaming systems today, and evolved motion controls are how the most hardcore-exciting gaming toy in years is going to work properly.

Honestly? Both. And if they indeed offer two platforms with a shared library, they could actually steal away some of the MS/Sony cake if the home console is capable to play some cutting edge games (of which you can play the watered down version on the handheld).

The shared library thing ought to be a boon for the developers and gamers alike, but I was discussing/"shit-posting" about the fantasy that Nintendo calls up AMD, points to the PS4, says "give me one of those" and then voila! Western third party AAA support returns. Ain't gonna happen. People's expectations are too high, just as they were prior to Wii U.

 

[Papacheeks]

Oh come on, it was a joke.



And where is the evidence to this fact? The wiki list you provided doesn't even agree with this statement.

You're trying awful hard to attempt to discount the Wii's software while celebrating the PS4's. The former is in no way a threat to the latter unless trending comparatively lower (latter vs. former) is somehow a "threat" and not simply "market realities".

Well my evidence is you said 600 million and said third party was huge, when in fact that Wiki I showed says other wise. My initial post was about Nintendo made games, first party and exclusives.

The Wiki I showed the most popularly sold. Games that should be up there in sales like Punchout, sin and punishment, Metroid are not even in the top. But games like Most of the mario games and spin off's are.

There were a lot more exclusives that should be up there, but just like Wii U the ones that are the top sold are Mario kART, Wii sports and smash.
Which is Nintendo's issue, they let the third party games like Deca sports, Michael Jackson experience pad and fill their roster through out the later years of the Wii. And that list is for games that have hit 1 Million or more in sales. What about the 100's of 19.99 shovel ware games? I mean according to VG chartz there's close to 100,000 copies of Ninja Bread man.

Imagine 100's of 19.99 titles like carnival games doing 100,000 or more, it all add's up.

That's where I was getting my information from. That Nintendo has a hard time selling outside of their own legacy IP games. Wii sports and the likes were high because of the console, they were the reason casuals to get the system.
Then they bought mario kart, and maybe New super mario bros or galaxy, but nothing more than that after 2009-2010 the rest were buying these 19.99 games. After people stopped drinking the hype Kool-aid for the Wii, like the Ipad. They saw that unless you were into buying Nintendo First party which by that time was slowing down, you had no use to keep, or support the console.

That hurt's your image as a console maker and is one Nintendo still hasn't learned from. Hopefully they have more studios and are committed to supporting this new console with frsh games in a timely manner.

Because the Casual market is gone, so you need core people who play video games or are interested in them to buy your console. And I think even with this the game industry is healthy, so for Nintendo to succeed they need third party exclusives, exclusive made indie, new ad-agency, better online, and for having all of this need good hardware. They need to promote games that could take off like Rocket league did, and splatoon.

They need to talk to the western part of their company and make decisions that will affect other regions outside of Japan.

WW is the reason Sony is doing so well. Their console is not region specific like most of xbox's has been for US/UK.

 

[StevieP]

Well my evidence is you said 600 million and said third party was huge, when in fact that Wiki I showed says other wise. My initial post was about Nintendo made games, first party and exclusives.

The Wiki I showed the most popularly sold. Games that should be up there in sales like Punchout, sin and punishment, Metroid are not even in the top. But games like Most of the mario games and spin off's are.

There were a lot more exclusives that should be up there, but just like Wii U the ones that are the top sold are Mario kART, Wii sports and smash.
Which is Nintendo's issue, they let the third party games like Deca sports, Michael Jackson experience pad and fill their roster through out the later years of the Wii. And that list is for games that have hit 1 Million or more in sales. What about the 100's of 19.99 shovel ware games? I mean according to VG chartz there's close to 100,000 copies of Ninja Bread man.

Imagine 100's of 19.99 titles like carnival games doing 100,000 or more, it all add's up.

That's where I was getting my information from. That Nintendo has a hard time selling outside of their own legacy IP games. Wii sports and the likes were high because of the console, they were the reason casuals to get the system.
Then they bought mario kart, and maybe New super mario bros or galaxy, but nothing more than that after 2009-2010 the rest were buying these 19.99 games. After people stopped drinking the hype Kool-aid for the Wii, like the Ipad. They saw that unless you were into buying Nintendo First party which by that time was slowing down, you had no use to keep, or support the console.

That hurt's your image as a console maker and is one Nintendo still hasn't learned from. Hopefully they have more studios and are committed to supporting this new console with frsh games in a timely manner.

Because the Casual market is gone, so you need core people who play video games or are interested in them to buy your console. And I think even with this the game industry is healthy, so for Nintendo to succeed they need third party exclusives, exclusive made indie, new ad-agency, better online, and for having all of this need good hardware. They need to promote games that could take off like Rocket league did, and splatoon.

They need to talk to the western part of their company and make decisions that will affect other regions outside of Japan.

WW is the reason Sony is doing so well. Their console is not region specific like most of xbox's has been for US/UK.

How much of the PS1 and PS2's software numbers should we throw out when discussing their successes on the market? Give me a percentage, so we can edit the wikipedia entries to reflect that.

 

[ninjablade]

Graphics weren't the driving force for any of these successes as far as I'm concerned. Hardware, on the other hand, did play a part. But I don't think the same way you want to infer. It enabled the software like Mario 64 or Final Fantasy 7 to exist. It was a means to an end, not the primary function. That's how the console market has operated. It's not about powerful hardware, it's about excavating your vision from said hardware.

The PSX, PS2, DS & Wii had software for *everyone*. Including "casual" software and casual support. So far, the current generation console leader does not (though the current generation leader does, its market is dwindling as well). The Wii U is drastically ill-equipped for the mass market in almost

Of course the more powerful the hardware, the better a developer can make there vision come to life with out running like shit.

As for throwing the wii with psx and ps2 i just have to say lol, it didnt have games for everyone, its motion controlles sold the system. 360/ps3 had games for everyone selling a total combined of 180 million, thats why there successors are still selling great with plenty of support, of course ps4 is taking xbone marketshare by making the right moves, its always been the most popular brand in gaming. if wii really had the games dor everyone its succesor wouldn't be selling like shit.

 

[Vena]

Imagine 100's of 19.99 titles like carnival games doing 100,000 or more, it all add's up.

There are over 150 titles on the Wii with more than 1 million units of software moved, and the higher end is obviously enormous with Sports/MKWii/NSMB but that is bolstered heavily by bundling. Those software units aren't being "padded" by 19.99 200k purchases as much as you seem to want to believe.

Also stop using chartz, that's a laughable data source. It just shows a lack of actual data.

And while we're at it, why don't we just discount all the garbage software on the PS4/PS3/PS2/PS1, XB1/X360/XO. You're drawing arbitrary lines for the Wii's software which you don't seem to think exist, all the same, on every other platform past or present. The Wii's ability to move massive amounts of software and hardware is no different from the PS2's, but you seem to really want to arbitrarily throw out the former while ignoring the latter.

 

[Papacheeks]

How much of the PS1 and PS2's software numbers should we throw out when discussing their successes on the market? Give me a percentage, so we can edit the wikipedia entries to reflect that.

Where am I throwing things out? PS1 and PS2 had far better legacy support than Wii. I never said that Third party didn't sell or should be thrown out. Just that Nintendo shouldn't be concentrating on them as they let third party pad out the rest of the consoles lifecycle and it hurt them in the long run.
Having shitty port's of third party sports and shovel ware doesn't help sell your system. The WIi was a cheap system that sold extremely well for it's first couple years, then 2009-2010 rolled around and it was dead in the water.

PS2 still sold in 2007 and had great games like God of war 2 that sold well, and were still moving systems while the PS3 was out in the market. Where was the Wii when Wii U hit the market?
What hot new software were they till putting out? And how many copies of third party games were they selling at the time on Wii?

I never said anything about throwing away numbers. But where they made a lot of profit was from their first party, early third party games. And over time their third party got really bland. PS1 and PS2 continually sold past their initial shelf life. Which was 5-6 years. Wii stop doing great numbers around 2009-2010.

It was a slow burn by the end. They always have a great start with first, third party selling and doing well. But as time goes on it dwindles. Look at the gamecube. And really since Third party has pretty much left, they need more studios than they have. That's their issue, people who were buying those third party games were not ones continuing buying games. The sales after 2009-2010 show this.

 

[LegendofLex]

Well my evidence is you said 600 million and said third party was huge, when in fact that Wiki I showed says other wise. My initial post was about Nintendo made games, first party and exclusives.

The Wiki I showed the most popularly sold. Games that should be up there in sales like Punchout, sin and punishment, Metroid are not even in the top. But games like Most of the mario games and spin off's are.

I wonder how many IP you'd end up with if you tallied the top 30 best-selling games on PS3 and Xbox.

There were a lot more exclusives that should be up there, but just like Wii U the ones that are the top sold are Mario kART, Wii sports and smash.
Which is Nintendo's issue, they let the third party games like Deca sports, Michael Jackson experience pad and fill their roster through out the later years of the Wii. And that list is for games that have hit 1 Million or more in sales. What about the 100's of 19.99 shovel ware games? I mean according to VG chartz there's close to 100,000 copies of Ninja Bread man.

Imagine 100's of 19.99 titles like carnival games doing 100,000 or more, it all add's up.

Welcome to life as the best-selling game platform.

This exact same thing happened on the NES, the SNES, the PlayStation, and the PS2. It's also happening on PS4, although it's disguised since most of the games you're talking about aren't selling at retail and Sony doesn't really have any reason to talk about them, except when touting how many games are on their platform.

That's because when you have the install base, you attract the developers who think they can make a quick buck on your system.

After people stopped drinking the hype Kool-aid for the Wii, like the Ipad. They saw that unless you were into buying Nintendo First party which by that time was slowing down, you had no use to keep, or support the console.

Sure, let's ignore Just Dance, which became one of Ubisoft's most successful brands despite hitting its stride at exactly the same time you declare that people bought "nothing more" for Wii.

What happened with Wii wasn't that people stopped buying games for it, and then support dried up; what happened was that people stopped making games for it, and then there was very little left for the audience to buy.

The high-profile games that released on Wii after 2009 still sold pretty well when they deserved to; what changed is that there wasn't much of a worthwhile effort from anyone (Nintendo included) to support the system throughout and especially beyond 2010. The exceptions were games like Just Dance and Skylanders, both of which were massively profitable for their (third-party) publishers.

PS2 still sold in 2007 and had great games like God of war 2 that sold well, and were still moving systems while the PS3 was out in the market. Where was the Wii when Wii U hit the market?

Wii wasn't being supported at nearly the same levels as PS2's 2005 in 2011; why would it be selling in 2012? Nintendo's only big game in 2011 was Skyward Sword, which didn't even reach God of War 2 levels.

PS2 was still being supported at better levels than Wii's later years in 2008, and even at late-Wii levels well into 2009 and 2010.

 

[Empyrean Heaven]

I just have my worries as to if 3rd parties will even come back at all, they've been burned too many times by Nintendo's policies, restrictions, and lack of development support that it might be too little too late.

At this point, I feel like the NX would have to hardware that's more powerful than PS4 and Xbox One and Nintendo would offer to PAY devs to come back to the fold...and they might get Madden back. That's it.

 

[10k]

I just have my worries as to if 3rd parties will even come back at all, they've been burned too many times by Nintendo's policies, restrictions, and lack of development support that it might be too little too late.

At this point, I feel like the NX would have to hardware that's more powerful than PS4 and Xbox One and Nintendo would offer to PAY devs to come back to the fold...and they might get Madden back. That's it.

All that goes away if the NX grows it's install base to a level where publishers think it's worth the ROI to port to it.

 

[ninjablade]

What happened with Wii wasn't that people stopped buying games for it, and then support dried up; what happened was that people stopped making games for it, and then there was very little left for the audience to buy.





Wii wasn't being supported in 2011; why would it be selling in 2012?

PS2 was still being supported (albeit at late-Wii levels) even well into 2009 and 2010.

Sure the reason developers stopped making games for it, cause they had no idea what would sell on it since there was a ton of shovelware games with motion controls already on wii, just like move and kinect developers ran out of ideas and motion controls dont make games better but worse. of course you also have 360/ps3 with a huge user base where third party were doing great by just making great games.