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[Data West]

Mouse-based vs controller-based basically?

Yes, and you could pull the view out further on pc

 

[Emitan]

Mouse-based vs controller-based basically?

PC version had a bird's eye isometric style camera and MMO style hotkeys on the bottom. Console camera was closer and it used radial menus.

 

[Nirolak]

Pretty much. PC also had enhanced combat, more tactical vs the more hack and slash nature of the console version from what I played.

I wouldn't expect the actual gameplay to change in X-COM though since it's a TBS.

 

[TTP]

Thanks guys.

 

[mclem]

•The guys in suits in the screenshots are 'Thin Man' aliens. They're able to leap long distances

Thin (adj.)

Synonyms: Slender.

 

[Emitan]

Thin (adj.)

Synonyms: Slender.

Oh no.

Oh no, no, no, no, no.

 

[NinajHeartless]

Thin (adj.)

Synonyms: Slender.

Now this new X-COM has become truly terrifying D:

 

[Data West]

Thin (adj.)

Synonyms: Slender.

They reference slender man, actually

 

[r1chard]

Is there any reason there's no link in the OP to the video of the developers talking about the project? It's the first thing I saw about the project and immediately allayed any fears I had about the project losing touch with the original game.


Edit: also, is there even a hint of a release date?

 

[frontieruk]

I usually don't rename my soldiers (which probably explains why I keep losing), but yeah, I'd be happy to make it to some kind of narrative. Of course, the idea of a GAF plays is to encourage other people into the fun. Otherwise it's just a McNum Plays, which I'd probably like, but could get dull to everyone else.

I've read the SA Let's Play (So many Chryssalids!), which basically was what got me to buy the package on Steam, haven't read Fishman's yet. I can see that on an earlier game, I actually kept notes in character. Why would I do that? Probably because writing after-action reports in the character of "that commander no one liked, so we shipped him off to head that silly alien fighting thing no one believes in" is funny. But a proper GAF plays would likely need a decent opening post. I'll try mixing something up and see if anyone wants in. I do have the ulterior motive of having somewhere to cry for help if things go south. Well, more south than normal in X-Com.

So are you doing this?

I'm twitching badly at some of these. Classes? Perks? Experience bonuses for doing something as sodding irrelevant as keeping everyone alive? What sort of game do they think they are making?

The feature list looks interesting, not sure it's a perk system but a skill tree ala RPGs so you can develop your team to you play style, and surely a bonus for keeping the team alive suggests they intend to keep to its roots of being hard? Or have I just been trolled???

 

[Sinatar]

I like every single thing I read there.

I'm definitely interested in the new leveling system, an RPG style skill tree could be very cool. Feel even more attachment to your veterans if you're hand guiding their development.

 

[platypotamus]

The feature list looks interesting, not sure it's a perk system but a skill tree ala RPGs so you can develop your team to you play style, and surely a bonus for keeping the team alive suggests they intend to keep to its roots of being hard? Or have I just been trolled???

I couldn't tell if it was a troll either. The features sound like a modern interpretation of the base gameplay, and totally in line with the old experience system. I thought they sounded great.

 

[Jintor]

They definitely sound like they'll remove the aggravating factors of the old-style 1990s gameplay which sucked!

 

[Minsc]

Thanks for the summary zoner.

Everything sounds great so far, really looking forward to it. I do find the bonus for not losing members a little questionable... it was pretty to very difficult to not lose members in the originals (especially when you get to the stronger units, like the actual saucers that take ~10 hits to bring down and can kill your units in one shot). It also effected moral, having squad members die. Hopefully the difficulty is balanced so it's very hard to get that bonus consistently!

 

[Rentahamster]

My main worry is that it'll be too different and lose that magical quality that made the original so good. However, listening to the devs talk about the game calms my fears a lot.

 

[frontieruk]

Thanks for the summary zoner.

Everything sounds great so far, really looking forward to it. I do find the bonus for not losing members a little questionable... it was pretty to very difficult to not lose members in the originals (especially when you get to the stronger units, like the actual saucers that take ~10 hits to bring down and can kill your units in one shot). It also effected moral, having squad members die. Hopefully the difficulty is balanced so it's very hard to get that bonus consistently!

I'm hoping that as they've added it it's a proper reward for looking after your squad rather than a handout, I do also worry if it's too easy for fans of the originals who survived superhuman if it'll be a handout making it easier for them.

 

[Neuromancer]

This all sounds pretty great. Hopefully those slender man aliens are less goofy than they look in that screenshot.

 

[epmode]

That feature list is almost perfect. I still can't believe this is being made.

 

[Almighty]

Well i like what i am reading. The seems to be keeping the game pretty true to its roots. I like some of the changes and as long as they keep the difficulty I will be happy. The best part of Xcom in my opinion was the feeling I had during the fights that around any corner lurking in the shadows was an alien that could make me have a very bad day real quick. So far it seems that this new game will be keeping that at least.

 

[PantherAttacks]

Ammo is abstracted. You're assumed to be carrying enough clips to reload as much as you want, but it takes a turn to do so

Ugh. Please don't dumb the game down like this.

 

[Emitan]

Ugh. Please don't dumb the game down like this.

I wonder if the game will be easily modifiable. I doubt any changes that upset the hardcore fans will remain in for long.

 

[charlequin]

I do find the bonus for not losing members a little questionable... it was pretty to very difficult to not lose members in the originals

Well, that's what would make it work. With a proper difficulty level, in which there's no expectation whatsoever you'll clear missions with zero casualties, I think it's a good incentive to have in place to watch out for your dudes.

 

[Jintor]

Ugh. Please don't dumb the game down like this.

Mmmm, devalues laser rifles a little more... I guess they still have the no reload requirement, but still.

 

[Boogalogist]

How about a New Game+ that lets me carry over my squad mates or something like that?

What do you guys think?

 

[pottuvoi]

FUCK. YES. That's what I needed.

Hopefully it will be as good as destruction in Apocalypse..

 

[derFeef]

Maaan everything sounds fantastic.

 

[akira28]

I like everything I'm reading so far. And yeah, thin man MIB aliens sound cool. Slender man, not as scary. Bring on the experience points. Some of the X-com clones incorporated soldier upgrades fairly well. I'm totally psyched to see what Firaxis (!) will come up with.

 

[PKrockin]

Ugh. Please don't dumb the game down like this.

I don't think I ever actually reloaded in X-Com except a few times with the Auto-Cannon in UFO, on two-stage missions with Sonic Cannons in TFTD, when using rocket launchers, or to switch ammo types. It's fine with me since it removes some pretty unnecessary micromanagement, though they should make an exception for rocket launchers and heavy weapons.

How about a New Game+ that lets me carry over my squad mates or something like that?

What do you guys think?

I don't think that's necessary. You can just put off doing the last mission. There's nothing you can do in early game that you can't do in late game (and more conveniently).

 

[Xater]

Seriously the information zoner posted from the article (thanks btw!) sound fantastic. They are really getting it. I could not be more excited at this point. Well I will probably be once we get some gameplay video. Also good news for PC players that they get a different interface suited for their inputs. Firaxis knows their shit.

 

[Acosta]

Thanks for the new details, this looks better and better.

Most hyped for game in 2012? HELL YEAH!

 

[peakish]

Some more, from this thread on 2k forums. Quite a bit of streamlining, I don't mind most of it (in fact I like some of it, like getting rid of ammo, it was an automatic action anyway), except not being able to move-shoot-move, hmm. Anyway, hype!

•No action points. The game uses a move-and-shoot (or move-and-move) dynamic. They don't want people piddling around counting individual action points. Some will call this a concession to consolitis; others will call it useful streamlining.

•Soldiers can still panic, but not to the point of wiping the squad. Likewise, you'll never get plasma-bombed right out of the carrier. They want to make the game more fair, and those were specifically mentioned.

•The strategic layer is extremely robust. You still need to choose which countries to send missions to, which offers of aid (in exchange for more protection) you'll accept from which countries, which alien technologies you'll research, etc. The back-and-forth between tactical and strategic play remains at the heart of the game.

•Overwatch, duck-and-cover, etc. are all still very much present, tactically.

•You can research vehicles, which take the place of a squaddie. They don't gain XP and when they are destroyed they are lost for good, but they provide serious cover and firepower. One example given is a mobile heavy weapons platform that serves as a good overwatcher for a tactical advance.

•Sectoids and Mutons are in. Cyberdiscs and Thin Men are also mentioned. Evidently psionics are also in.

•Aliens have their own special perk-like abilities as well.
Overall it looks really ☺☺☺☺ing fantastic and I am now DAY ONE.



The article specifically cites a sniper spending their entire turn to take an aimed shot for Massive Damage. Perhaps it's more accurate to think of the game as having only two action points per turn, for Move-Shoot, or Move-Move, or Aim-Shoot, etc.

Gus, like I said, overwatch is in the game. In, in, in the game. You definitely can set up squaddies who haven't used all their actions in a turn, such that they can do overwatch and shoot the instant something comes into view.




Reloading costs an action, so it is a tactical consideration. Ducking into cover is the main positioning mechanic they mention. They also mention supppressive fire as another mechanic -- your heavy weapons guy can lay down a barrage that can paralyze pinned units (e.g. remove their actions). Grenades are in, wounding is in. Generally it doesn't sound like there are fewer tactical options, but rather that the bookkeeping is simplified.



(This part was by the author of the GI article)
Apologies if the article was unclear, but the deal is that sniper rifles are unusual in that they take a full turn to shoot. You can unlock a move-shoot perk for snipers at some experience level, but your basic sniper rifle takes a full turn to fire.

Ammo is abstracted. You're assumed to be carrying enough clips to reload as much as you want, but it takes a turn to do so. Suppressive fire is crazy awesome, for instance, but it burns through ammo like a mofo so you're borrowing turns down the road to kick ass now.

Body positions - AIUI you are assumed to be kneeling behind partial cover etc. They didn't go into a ton of detail here. Personally that's a level of control granularity that I'm not concerned about preserving, so long as I have other awesome ☺☺☺☺ that I can do and creative tactics to explore. Which from what I've seen will not be lacking.


So yeah, you only have one base. Building different bases has been removed, but you still buy satellite coverage (the new radar) and build hangars for interception in different countries. Your single base is like way more crazy awesome than any base from the original, though, and presents lots of opportunities for more decision-making in terms of digging deeper as well as what kind of expansion facilities you add on (see the screenshot of the "ant farm" that we put online Monday).

 

[ThoseDeafMutes]

The removal of action points is sad, but acceptable as long as they retain other stats so that a single move can traverse more or less terrain based on them. Still, having crazy good soldiers that could autofire with 50% accuracy three times per turn will be missed.

 

[Serialxp]

I'm disapointed by the lack of action points, but still day one for me.

 

[Xater]

The removal of action points is sad, but acceptable as long as they retain other stats so that a single move can traverse more or less terrain based on them. Still, having crazy good soldiers that could autofire with 50% accuracy three times per turn will be missed.

Not really. I think the way it is described I am fine with this change.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

My fear on this now is that Firaxis are going to give us a great example of the difference between elegant game design and simplified but over engineered design.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

I groaned when I saw no ap's but it sounds like it still works in a similar way (saving actions for reaction fire, making choices between movement and shooting) Not really understanding the stuff about cover but could be interesting. Suppressive fire sounds exactly like how it works in Ghost Recon: Shadow Wars. Only one base is a bit of a bummer.

 

[ruttyboy]

I'm disapointed by the lack of action points, but still day one for me.

Also disappointed, surely if moving any distance take one 'move' there's no incentive to proceed slowly and carefully? Might as well run the full distance everytime. Also with the apparent removal of kneeling, it makes the choices around how you spend your 'time' far less interesting/involved (read: shallow). Move character full distance -> shoot -> move character full distance -> shoot -> rinse repeat.

And removing the multiple base construction? Why? That was one of the best parts of the original. Why with all these remakes do they feel the need to improve a load of stuff, but remove one or two key features that were a massive part of the game's appeal in the first place?

Oh well, hopefully Xenonauts will be more traditional.

 

[Data West]

Also disappointed, surely if moving any distance take one 'move' there's no incentive to proceed slowly and carefully? Might as well run the full distance everytime. Also with the apparent removal of kneeling, it makes the choices around how you spend your 'time' far less interesting/involved (read: shallow). Move character full distance -> shoot -> move character full distance -> shoot -> rinse repeat.

There's a cover system. That's not what you would do at all if you don't want to get torn up by aliens

 

[derFeef]

Also disappointed, surely if moving any distance take one 'move' there's no incentive to proceed slowly and carefully? Might as well run the full distance everytime. Also with the apparent removal of kneeling, it makes the choices around how you spend your 'time' far less interesting/involved (read: shallow). Move character full distance -> shoot -> move character full distance -> shoot -> rinse repeat.

And removing the multiple base construction? Why? That was one of the best parts of the original. Why with all these remakes do they feel the need to improve a load of stuff, but remove one or two key features that were a massive part of the game's appeal in the first place?

Oh well, hopefully Xenonauts will be more traditional.

Why should I move into unknown territory - just because I can? Makes no sense.

 

[Xater]

Also since there are no action points I guess I was right about the health and cover indicators?

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

It's a bit early to complain about the one base thing until we fully understand how the new geoscape works. It would suck if it was like the original but maybe it will make sense with the way they've changed things.

I'd like to know if fire and smoke are in the game.

 

[robin2]

Very disappointed by the abandonment of the (flexible) action points system, in favor of a (rigid) move+action system. And "Powers", like the sniper power, are... just bad in my pov.

Everything else seem good but yeah, the combat is important for the game so the change is big and bad imho.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

Also since there are no action points I guess I was right about the health and cover indicators?

Maybe you were right about the health indicators since it appears that the game design sort of sucks. Too many lazy copies of generic RPG concepts.

 

[ruttyboy]

Why should I move into unknown territory - just because I can? Makes no sense.

The point is there's no gradation in the penalty for moving further, in the original you were constantly making decisions as to whether it was better to move a bit further or be able to kneel when you got there, or to reserve time for a snap shot (or two, or three), or not kneel but have a snap shot ready, etc. etc. etc.. In this new one it removes all that and it's more a case of, "Want to move over there? Yeah, why not, it's inside my 'movement zone' and it makes no difference to how much in cover I am or the accuracy of my shot, as I don't need to reserve time to kneel, or whether I still have enough left for (presumably only one) snapshot."

Not saying it's the end of the world, but it is IMHO a massive decrease in complexity and inevitably it reduces choice.

 

[Almighty]

Eh i am not sure if i like some of the stuff that Peakish posted. The removal of action points being the first, but I will have to see how this new system they have works before I come to any conclusion. Though only having one base no matter how awesome it may be sounds like bad news to me.

I just want some videos now so I can see the game in action.

 

[syllogism]

Eh i am not sure if i like some of the stuff that Peakish posted. The removal of action points being the first, but I will have to see how this new system they have works before I come to any conclusion. Though only having one base no matter how awesome it may be sounds like bad news to me.

I just want some videos now so I can see the game in action.

The additional bases didn't really add anything to the game, especially since you can still build hangars all around the globe. They can achieve the same depth with the one base mechanic, we'll see if they do.

 

[epmode]

The removal of time units is the only news that has me worried. That sort of thing always made for interesting choices in the first game. I liked having the option to waste all TUs in a mad sprint that was counterbalanced by running out of breath if you kept it up (which happened faster if you were carrying too much stuff). Then there's wondering if you should move slow enough to leave time for reaction fire at targets of opportunity. And losing the ability to move > shoot > move sounds like it could be huge.

BUT I'm willing to give it a go since it might work out when combined with the other changes.

The single base thing is similarly questionable but the changes to base expansion seem extensive enough to keep it interesting.

 

[Almighty]

The additional bases didn't really add anything to the game, especially since you can still build hangars all around the globe. They can achieve the same depth with the one base mechanic, we'll see if they do.

Yeah now that i think about it a little more you do have a point. I guess I am just a little worried that they will make it too easy to detect and intercept UFOs around the globe. As long as they make it so it takes some time to build the hangers or take time and costs a bit to add more satellite coverage it could work.

Anyway I read somewhere wish i could remember where people saying that you can only take 4 people out on a mission now. I couldn't find anything about that via google so does anyone know if that is true? I assume it was mentioned in GameInformer if true.

 

[Minsc]

The point is there's no gradation in the penalty for moving further, in the original you were constantly making decisions as to whether it was better to move a bit further or be able to kneel when you got there, or to reserve time for a snap shot (or two, or three), or not kneel but have a snap shot ready, etc. etc. etc.. In this new one it removes all that and it's more a case of, "Want to move over there? Yeah, why not, it's inside my 'movement zone' and it makes no difference to how much in cover I am or the accuracy of my shot, as I don't need to reserve time to kneel, or whether I still have enough left for (presumably only one) snapshot."

Not saying it's the end of the world, but it is IMHO a massive decrease in complexity and inevitably it reduces choice.

In addition to this:

You definitely can set up squaddies who haven't used all their actions in a turn, such that they can do overwatch and shoot the instant something comes into view.

Moving the the maximum of your unit's ability might invite additional retaliation as a penalty if it involves blindly charging in to the edges of the fog of war. Also I don't get what you're saying about cover. It seems like cover is implemented, and if you ignore it, it may cause higher risk of casualties. So moving further simply because you can would still be detrimental if it leaves you in the open. More screens would help a lot, I'd like to see how they handle the movement range for inside of closed rooms cloaked in darkness/fog of war, when you're standing right outside the door, unable to make any kind of assessment of where to move until mid movement when the door is opened and the room's contents are revealed.

I'd like to know if fire and smoke are in the game.

Since they have mentioned destructible environments a couple times now already, I agree it'd be very disappointing if you didn't have smoke obstructing vision and fire damaging units from the explosions of rockets/grenades. There was supposed to be specific details about the destructible environments in the article, according the initial GI tease.

 

[Sinatar]

No action points and no squaddies going berserk sounds bad. Especially the latter. Nothing like having your rocket launcher dude freak out and start firing randomly at everything that movies, including your own dudes. They should at least make that an option.

The new action point system sounds like King' Bounty almost, guess I'll have to wait to try it, but action points definitely gives you more flexibility and depth.