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[barkers crest]

They've put some XNA features into the new DirectX11.1 SDK:


MS is expected to roll out the Windows 8 Phones and Tablets in June and they're going to deploy the Windows Store at the same time. They seem to be dropping both Silverlight and XNA in favor of HTML5 and DirectX11.1 . They're telling XNA developers that they can still roll out their apps, see the last post by an XNA framework dev: http://forums.create.msdn.com/forums/t/91616.aspx?PageIndex=22

My guess is that they'll eventually merge what is great about XNA (productivity/ease of use) into the Metro environment but just branded or implemented as something else. It is just going to take time and a few product revisions to get there though.

Where did you hear this? Because I'm certain it's false and you're just mixing up that the fact that Metro apps will only be available on the App Store.

There are basically two stores. One for metro apps and one for classic applications. The metro app store provides built in purchase transaction and installation. The classic app store is just a link to your own website where you take care of everything.

 

[Gaspode_T]

That's what I mean. Bing is useless for the indie games as-is. Results are all over the place and it sucks far worse than simply having a FILTER for god's sale. A simple filter would go a long way toward making it better to use, and maybe a "top selling this week" category would give some visibility to games that are starting to catch on. *Anything* would be better than what's been done.

Also, do not allow voting on a game unless the person BOUGHT it. That would cut down the huge amount of vote spamming.

Achievements can be done, just make them 0 point ones.

Kinect access for indie developers would also be a welcome addition.

I basically agree with everything you are saying, but most signs are pointing to these things being available on Windows 8...see Build conf videos about accessing XBL with RESTful APIs...HTML5/XAML can still use C#, just the XNA apis people are used to would need to be wrapped or abstracted like Barkers Crest is saying...mostly matters for tablets, PCs should be easy to sell an XNA game as it is today

In a perfect world some of this this could be added to xblig and I haven't given up hope yet

Ratings too I agree but it seems difficult to change in a fair way

 

[snoopeasystreet]

So? Games have their own visual styling anyway. They almost never use native windows widgets. I don't see how they'd benefit from metro styling.

It's not about the look of the games. Metro apps will run on ARM and x86. If you program your game on xna, it won't run on ARM. That means your cutting out the tablet market.

 

[Phreaker]

Some of the games have done extremely well, the two of the Minecraft clone games broke 500K sales and one broke 100K. Many of the games you currently see in Top Downloads list are above 10K sales. There are some XBLA games that have sold less than that (the price is different but in terms of revenue some XBLIG games are still beating them).

You left off the two biggest selling XBLIGs (in terms of #s): #1) The Impossible Game and #2) I MAED A GAM3 W1TH Z0MB1ES 1NIT!!!1. Avatar Drop and Avatar Paintball have also outsold the other popular voxel-based game Total Miner: Forge (which I must say is quite a nice little game). Fortresscraft Chapter 1 is sitting at #3. Still, the voxel-based games are selling for 240MPS and the others are 80.

It's not my fault. Microsoft set this standard on their console, so by singling these titles out must mean that they're not real games.

If Microsoft doesn't take them seriously, why should I?

Because the developers of these games do? You seriously are more concerned with your gamerscore than having fun with a game?

Too late. The mess is broken and, with the new dashboard, so well hidden it doesn't matter.

No more hidden then Arcade, Games on Demand, or Xbox Originals is it?

 

[vireland]

Ratings too I agree but it seems difficult to change in a fair way

At this point the voting spam is massively unfair to legit indie games publishers, so changing it to make it so you have to buy the game to rate it, while maybe unfair in certain situations will be, on the whole, MORE fair - MUCH more fair than what they have now that allows vote spamming and rank manipulation.

 

[Warm Machine]

At this point the voting spam is massively unfair to legit indie games publishers, so changing it to make it so you have to buy the game to rate it, while maybe unfair in certain situations will be, on the whole, MORE fair - MUCH more fair than what they have now that allows vote spamming and rank manipulation.

Yeah, I surprised that there are ratings available on something even if there is no record of a person downloading that content. Only after whatever it is you want to rate is linked to your profile should it be able to be done.

However, I don't think the ratings abuse is happening that often anymore.

 

[vireland]

Yeah, I surprised that there are ratings available on something even if there is no record of a person downloading that content. Only after whatever it is you want to rate is linked to your profile should it be able to be done.

However, I don't think the ratings abuse is happening that often anymore.

Still, they should push the reset button on the whole thing and start fresh with legit voting. If you bought the game, you can re-vote. If you never did, so sorry for you - buy the game, or cry that you can't spam votes anymore. The voting spam worked both ways - pumping up crap and voting down legit (often superior) games. Reset is the best way to fix it.

 

[Labadal]

Only indie game I have is Dead Pixels since I couldn't refuse. Even then I hestiated to buy it because of the demand to always be online when you play. Had no ethrnet cables hooked in the other day because there were young kids in the house. Turned on the 360 to play Dead Pixels and I couldn't do it. I hope they remove DRM like this in the future. I know I'd buy more indie games if they did.

 

[Psychotext]

I hope they remove DRM like this in the future. I know I'd buy more indie games if they did.

As I understand it, it's not DRM, it's a workaround because of ratings. Basically it makes all indie games online games, which gets around certain ESRB rules.

(I might be wrong on the exact details of that, it's a while since I saw the discussion, but that's the gist)

 

[Labadal]

As I understand it, it's not DRM, it's a workaround because of ratings. Basically it makes all indie games online games, which gets around certain ESRB rules.

(I might be wrong on the exact details of that, it's a while since I saw the discussion, but that's the gist)

Ah, ok. Still bugs me because I rarely have my 360 connected.

 

[Gaspode_T]

Still, they should push the reset button on the whole thing and start fresh with legit voting. If you bought the game, you can re-vote. If you never did, so sorry for you - buy the game, or cry that you can't spam votes anymore. The voting spam worked both ways - pumping up crap and voting down legit (often superior) games. Reset is the best way to fix it.

I kind of don't like the stars all together, even for XBLA and Games on Demand often they make no sense and some historical ratings are very strange (some of the early underrated XBLA games have some of the lowest star ratings even though they are good games, it's almost like people thought "Not Halo? Zero stars!!! Muwahahaha!") It doesn't make sense for future unreleased games to get ratings either. I'm pretty sure throwing the whole star thing away is an option high on the list, I would personally prefer Amazon.com style written review system.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

Every XBLIG announcement thread ends up the same way.

XBLIG is designed and priced for amateurs and hobbyists, not individuals or small companies out to make a living of it.

Not competitive with iOS appstore or Steam?

- They're not trying to compete with those guys. It's not an all-in-one storefront for all levels of product.

Dev tools\size caps\exposure not as good as XBLA?

- That's by design. These guys aren't paying for expensive licenses or devkits, therefore they're not getting that level of support or promotion.

No Achievements

- These games aren't certified, adding achievements would be a disaster due to abuse.

I can't play offline

- They have to get around the ratings requirements somehow.


The legitimate major complaints are the following:

- Poor exposure on the new dash
- No kinect yet

The IG section has been hidden in the dash and this needs to be fixed (along with some other new dash problems). However, they will not and should not get equal billing with XBLA games. Those XBLA publishers have paid for that privilege, and MS has to be careful that eyeballs always see those first lest the paying devs get pissy.

Ah, ok. Still bugs me because I rarely have my 360 connected.

Buy a switch?

I would personally prefer Amazon.com style written review system.

Can't see that working well when most people only have a controller to enter text with. But I do feel like you should have to download the trial to rate.

 

[Labadal]

Buy a switch?

The fact that I have to buy one makes me sad. I use wireless for my PS3, PSP and 3DS. I only have the one spare ethernet cable for the 360.

 

[Dr. Zoidberg]

The fact that I have to buy one makes me sad. I use wireless for my PS3, PSP and 3DS. I only have the one spare ethernet cable for the 360.

Well, you could also buy a wireless bridge, or better yet, a slim 360 with wi-fi built in. But the switch would be the cheaper option. My PS3 doesn't have wi-fi in it either, so I just have a switch for all my consoles to plug into.

 

[DaveVoyles]

The developers certainly have taken note. It looks like a lot of them are dropping prices down to the sweet spot of 80 MS points, ($1).

Also, thank you Zoidberg for clarifying a lot of those points for people who aren't developers. You're right though, it's the same complaints each time.

 

[DiscoJer]

The biggest problem for me is that always on DRM that they require. My 360 is not the easiest thing to connect to the internet, thanks to its lack of wifi (and I'm not spending $100 to get an adapter just for it).

If it's for the ratings, then why is it that other companies totally ignore this when it comes to similar games - iOS (for the Touch and iPad), Android Tablets (like the Kindle Fire and the Nook), the e-ink Kindle...

I think they need to throw out the ESRB, to be honest. Nintendo, Sony and MS playing by those rules while their competitors are not is just foolish...

 

[a Master Ninja]

The biggest problem for me is that always on DRM that they require. My 360 is not the easiest thing to connect to the internet, thanks to its lack of wifi (and I'm not spending $100 to get an adapter just for it).

Those adapters can be found new in stores for half that now.

 

[DaveVoyles]

Those adapters can be found new in stores for half that now.

Or you can use the same device that the original 360 used. That's what I do.