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[Tsundere]

Likely considering how common it is already.

Hopefully they won't.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Here is a quote from the FTC guidelines faq:

I’ve read that bloggers who don’t comply with the Guides can be fined $11,000? Is that true?
No. The press reports that said that were wrong. There is no fine for not complying with an FTC guide.

http://www.business.ftc.gov/documents/bus71-ftcs-revised-endorsement-guideswhat-people-are-asking

I really think the FTC would be the wrong agency to handle this, personally, as it sounds like they would take civil action against offenders more so than legal action. I totally do not understand why they don't have the power to go after them, though, and I don't know why they aren't considering this illegal, considering it's the literal definition of payola.

The funny thing is that if if these Youtube personalities did this on television or radio, they'd be in clear violation of federal law, as would MS and EA. The FCC could totally go after them if that were the case, but since this is the Internet, FCC has no regulatory power.

Here's the federal FCC payola statue BTW

Section 507 of the Communications Act, 47 U.S.C. § 508, requires that, when anyone provides or promises to provide money, services or other consideration to someone to include program matter in a broadcast, that fact must be disclosed in advance of the broadcast, ultimately to the station over which the matter is to be aired. Both the person providing or promising to provide the money, services or other consideration and the recipient are obligated to make this disclosure so that the station may broadcast the sponsorship identification announcement required by Section 317 of the Communications Act. Failure to disclose such payment or the providing of services or other consideration, or promise to provide them, is commonly referred to as ``payola'' and is punishable by a fine of not more than $10,000 or imprisonment for not more than one year or both. These criminal penalties bring violations within the purview of the Department of Justice.

Basically, it would be illegal if the FCC had any power to regulate Youtube content, but it doesn't and I guess the FTC doesn't think it's illegal and/or just don't have the time manpower to deal with it?

Meanwhile at the FTC: (This just broke today)

http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2014/01/23/ftc-nissan-frontier-ad/4798525/

The Federal Trade Commission says Nissan and its advertising agency have agreed to settle allegations of deceptive advertising over a TV spot that showed a Frontier pickup truck pushing a dune buggy up a hill.

The 3-second ad was shot YouTube-style as if onlookers had come upon the pickup rescuing the stalled dune buggy and shot the scene with a mobile phone, according to the FTC. In fact, the FTC says, the Frontier was not capable of pushing the dune buggy up the steep hill. Under the proposed settlements, Nissan and its agency, TBWA Worldwide, are prohibited from using deceptive demonstrations in advertisements for pickup trucks. They are still allowed to use special effects as long as they depict actions that the vehicle is capable of performing.

I can't believe they are taking special effects in truck ads so seriously when there's evidence of payola occurring on Youtube.

 

[serversurfer]

They claim it was added value aka bonuses media. This happens quite a bit and is beyond the standard media buy. Usually thrown in if the publisher screwed up before, or if the initial media buy is rather large.

So you're claiming it's common practice to produce and air free commercials for your clients without even telling them? Is it also common practice to also alter your boilerplate agreements to ensure FTC violations in the process?

 

[tkalamba]

So you're claiming it's common practice to produce and air free commercials for your clients without even telling them? Is it also common practice to also alter your boilerplate agreements to ensure FTC violations in the process?

Sort of. Bonus content produced by a vendor happens all the time. All they would have said during the planning process is "for x amount of dollars you are getting y impressions for these banners, and z impressions for the preroll. As value add to make sure you buy from us, we'll throw in some video content that we'll produce at no added cost"

I've had as high as $30k worth of free media thrown at me for buying a rather large amount of home page takeovers spread over a year. All of it was created by the site and nothing had to be done by us.

Edit: I should add, client isn't always the one who would approve site produced media. Usually it would be the creative agency and their primary concern would be that anything produced by a site is on brand ie. Using correct colours etc.

 

[serversurfer]

Sort of. Bonus content produced by a vendor happens all the time. All they would have said during the planning process is "for x amount of dollars you are getting y impressions for these banners, and z impressions for the preroll. As value add to make sure you buy from us, we'll throw in some video content that we'll produce at no added cost"

I've had as high as $30k worth of free media thrown at me for buying a rather large amount of home page takeovers spread over a year. All of it was created by the site and nothing had to be done by us.

You didn't even screen it? That seems a bit haphazard. Aren't you ultimately responsible for the content of the ads? What if they were all filled with horrible lies about your competitor's product, for example?

 

[tkalamba]

You didn't even screen it? That seems a bit haphazard. Aren't you ultimately responsible for the content of the ads? What if they were all filled with horrible lies about your competitor's product, for example?

It wouldn't be the media agencies job, it would fall on the creative agencies. The problem with this case it was User generated content which throws a curve ball at creative teams.

 

[serversurfer]

It wouldn't be the media agencies job, it would fall on the creative agencies.

I'm not sure what the difference is. Which are MS, Machinima, and the tubers in this scenario?

Regardless, if I made widgets, I certainly wouldn't let anyone publish ads for them sight unseen. Aren't I ultimately responsible for any advertising done for my product?

The problem with this case it was User generated content which throws a curve ball at creative teams.

Because when they see a guy wearing headphones, they forget what laws are?

 

[A-V-B]

So basically bribes are totally accepted in the industry, no one cares about ethics, and there will never, ever be any integrity whatsoever.

Lovely. Okay.

 

[SwiftDeath]

So basically bribes are totally accepted in the industry, no one cares about ethics, and there will never, ever be any integrity whatsoever.

Lovely. Okay.

I can fully understand why Erik the PR Guru loves the idea of youtube advertising.

Great future we have before us

 

[tkalamba]

I'm not sure what the difference is. Which are MS, Machinima, and the tubers in this scenario?

Regardless, if I made widgets, I certainly wouldn't let anyone publish ads for them sight unseen. Aren't I ultimately responsible for any advertising done for my product?

Because when they see a guy wearing headphones, they forget what laws are?

Microsoft would be a client/advertising brand

Media agencies are the guys hired by MS to buy ads on TV, net and print

Social agencies are specifically Facebook/twitter/instagram for MS.

Creative agencies are the graphic designers, developers, copywriters who build creative for MS, in charge of all brand design.

Publishers/vendors are the sites and networks media agencies buy from. Machinima, Google, yahoo for example.

Content creators are the guys on YouTube being paid by Machinima.

The industry has a lot of pieces to it and all are separate companies in a lot of cases. Occasionally you'll find clients with full service teams that will take multiple roles. For example, a Media Agency that also handles Creative and Social in house, but they are rarer. What happens more often than not is you will have entirely different companies for each team.

When it comes to UGC, it becomes incredibly difficult for the creative teams to screen every single video or piece of content unless its just a handful. If they manage the UGC directly, its much easier, but in this case Machinima would be the middleman which muddles the process.

This is just the simplified version, there are so many parties in the industry, it gets confusing. Especially with the sheer number of competing companies.

 

[tkalamba]

So basically bribes are totally accepted in the industry, no one cares about ethics, and there will never, ever be any integrity whatsoever.

Lovely. Okay.

More or less, except bribes are more cleverly disguised as prizes to media people, lunches, event tickets, trips to the local stripclub or small gifts below $200

It is a soul sucking industry, but pays pretty well with lots of room for advancement.

 

[SwiftDeath]

It is a soul sucking industry, but pays pretty well with lots of room for advancement.

Sounds like the columbian drug cartel

 

[tkalamba]

Sounds like the columbian drug cartel

I'd say minus the drugs, but I'm confident that is sprinkled somewhere in the mix. I have friends on the creative side who've had to go pick up drugs for their creative directors.

This video could give a bit of a comical view on what its like to work in the industry
http://youtu.be/Go_VtqtxCHY

it's old, but funny and somewhat close to what it can be like.

This one shows the Publisher sales side of things just as humorously
http://youtu.be/vLqXgEpLSw4

 

[Gorillaz]

Sounds like the columbian drug cartel

pretty sure drug cartel's a little more....dangerous

 

[tkalamba]

pretty sure drug cartel's a little more....dangerous

Yeah, the only thing dangerous in my industry is probably Liver failure or being thrown under a bus by a partner agency who is part of a different Umbrella Company.

 

[serversurfer]

When it comes to UGC, it becomes incredibly difficult for the creative teams to screen every single video or piece of content unless its just a handful.

Aren't Microsoft ultimately responsible for the content of ads promoting their product?

"This is all so hard to manage" seems to be being offered an excuse here, but rather than excusing bad behavior, shouldn't it instead be an indication the system itself is flawed? If MS can simply claim ignorance and get away with it, isn't the system ripe for abuse? They just need to find someone willing to take the fall in exchange for a pile of cash.

 

[tkalamba]

Aren't Microsoft ultimately responsible for the content of ads promoting their product?

"This is all so hard to manage" seems to be being offered an excuse here, but rather than excusing bad behavior, shouldn't it instead be an indication the system itself is flawed? If MS can simply claim ignorance and get away with it, isn't the system ripe for abuse? They just need to find someone willing to take the fall in exchange for a pile of cash.

To be honest, not sure. I believe they should be, I have many clients who prefer to manage UGC as a first party instead of through a vendor like Machinima, but they usually do so in order to censor and manage their image. This is for beauty and health clients.

But its also been somewhat evident that it doesn't happen as often as one would hope.

There was a case with a contest in Canada to create a new song for Hockey Night in Canada. The most popular video was not used in the end, but was in the running for the whole contest, and it was an absolute joke and off brand. The creative agency involved difnt bother screening a single entry during the length of the contest and created some issues with people.

This was the leading entry of the contest back in 2008 http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog...s-of-cats-meowing-and-babies-cr?urn=nhl,94328

Stuff like this can slip through the cracks pretty easily in anything involving UGC.

Edit:As a side note, never trust contests like the one mentioned, the winner will not be selected by the users or votes, always decided upon by the media team, creative team and their client. They always select the one which is most on brand.

 

[atomsk]

Since this has more or less wrapped itself up since the FTC ain't doing shit, I put together my final thoughts on the matter.

Hopefully this can all do some good in the gaming world on youtube and people will remain vigilant about the disclosure of paid advertisement

 

[A-V-B]

Since this has more or less wrapped itself up since the FTC ain't doing shit, I put together my final thoughts on the matter.

Hopefully this can all do some good in the gaming world on youtube and people will remain vigilant about the disclosure of paid advertisement

All you can really do now is trust your friends. Even if no legal action is taken, the damage to basically all forms of opinion-media has hit.

 

[Vizzeh]

All you can really do now is trust your friends. Even if no legal action is taken, the damage to basically all forms of opinion-media has hit.

Exactly, basically because there are no rullings and no-one wants to regulate this in the name of fair practice and in a manner that is pro-consumerist , It gives opinionated media alot less strength since we cannot trust it.

People will likely be more vigilant with their BS detectors. I personally have lost faith in the US FTC and hope other bodies will do a better job in protecting consumer rights in better differentiating the difference between an opinion and an advertisement especially when it is dubious.

 

[Purkake4]

Probably posted already, but still funny:

 

[Brad Grenz]

The underlying federal laws are enforceable. The guide itself is not enforceable. The guide is based off summaries and interpretations of the federal law applied to today's new emerging mediums. Crecente's interpretation of that as these tactics being immune to litigation or not answering to the underlying laws is confusing.

The quote comes across as an overly specific answer to what the woman at the FTC probably felt was an annoyingly stupid inquiry. "No, Brian, guidelines aren't laws. Laws are laws. Guidelines are how we tell people to follow the laws, but they are not the laws."

 

[Psykoboy2]

Our radio talk show is going to be talking about this in about 30 minutes and we will be taking live calls if anyone wants to chime in with their opinion on the subject.

 

[Melchiah]

More or less, except bribes are more cleverly disguised as prizes to media people, lunches, event tickets, trips to the local stripclub or small gifts below $200

It is a soul sucking industry, but pays pretty well with lots of room for advancement.

It's exactly the same with the medical industry. I used to work in a hospital, where the doctors got similar gifts from drug companies for recommending and prescribing their products for the patients.

 

[Biker19]

From the other thread:

Here is the list of YouTube channels that have accepted this deceptive terms of marketing:

73. acidglow accepted the Xbox One Console Campaign Assignment http://www.youtube.com/user/acidglow/ 19,979 subscribers

What? Nooooo, acid! WHY? *Sobs*

I always enjoyed his online match videos of fighting games, like this.

Or this.

But because of that...I'm not sure if I want to unsubscribe from him, unless someone else offers something better or something similar to him...like what I've just posted.

 

[Tripon]

Well unsubbing from acidgl0w.

 

[Mariah Carey]

Yeah, no doubt Mariah Carey is hot stuff. Every time I choose to listen, I'm all "fuuck, this is damn good."

In fact, the best thing about Mariah's version is how perfectly it captures the spirit of Christmas

I'm way late to this, but it's not a "version", that's the original song.

 

[level44]

Microsoft, please, please go.

You are a cancer to the gaming industry.

Any other company, any other company at all please come and replace them.

 

[Shin-Ra]

Thanks for smelling that something was up.

 

[Guymelef]

Necro bump.

 

[Rebel Leader]

Necro bump.

#necrogate

=p

 

[Gorillaz]

The feel smell of a necro bump

 

[Poodlestrike]

Morning of the LIVING THREAD.

And for a salty response to the Destiny Fragrance thing? Really?

 

[Percy]

Thanks for smelling that something was up.

If you get banned for this, I have to ask now... was it worth it?

 

[Miles Quaritch]

If you get banned for this, I have to ask now... was it worth it?

The amount to salt consumed by him in the Destiny fragrance thread caused him to stroke out momentarily and lose control of all common sense.

That will probably fly if the mods want to ban him.