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[Synth]

Summary:

1) Kill Windows RT

2) Make current and future legacy programs more touch accessible. Thus, little need to make metro / Windows store apps. Not like there's much in the store.

Ok, this sounds far less questionable now.

I still disagree though. Culling the Windows Store would remove the security of having applications that are approved, and not as potentially damaging to your system (back to removing ad bars from your computer illiterate friend's tablet now). It would also reduce visibility for new applications, as the store will often feature them, and people's feedback can be used to promote compelling software. You would also be once again screwing over all developers that have made any investment in the ecosystem so far... and that's really been done too many times in the past already. You'd also lose the ability to leverage Windows development to benefit the Xbox. You would also probably fall into the Android problem of developers not bothering to sufficiently adjust their applications to function across different device types (because it's not like anyone's there to reject it anymore).

Then there's the fact that pretty much any benefits from what you're suggesting would also be accomplished by this:

...but without all the negatives listed above.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Just because it's the same OS doesn't mean it's exactly the same. There's still different hardware, certification and optimisation that bring difficulties with them.

I guess this might explain why the Xbone's CPU is slower than the PS4's despite the higher clock rate though. Three operating systems and Windows 8 (even in a stripped down state) means there's a shitload of overhead.

As for the Office talk, lol. Reminds me of all the people that hyped Linux up as a PS3 killer app.

At least it's better than the 360 controller. Now THAT'S an atrocious d-pad.

Nah, not really. I might just have abnormally large thumbs.

 

[LordOfChaos]

There was a middleware developer last year who released their figures showing the PS4 CPU to be faster and a developer popped into the thread to confirm it:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=737629

As for those instances you're talking about, are you sure that wasn't because the Xbone version had a lower resolution?

Hmm, I see. I can't remember which face-off that situation was in, but DF theorized it was due to the clock speed bump. I'm not sure if that game had different resolutions or not.

 

[USC-fan]

Guess we found another reason for the performance problems.

Really do not understand this at all. Guess it easier than building a gaming OS. But guess if you are not going for performance it doesnt matter.

And people act like the XOne is dead.

What's to stop Microsoft from making an exclusive version of Office with Onedrive support baked in? They could add a free skype subscription, free office, and extra one drive storage for the life of the console. Microsoft is the sleeping giant posed to take consoles to the next level. Their new CEO loves pushing services so this is a realistic possibility.

I don't like all the things associated with Xone but I'll switch for office and an app store.

10/10

 

[Tidus_Great]

yeah but for 500 bucks wouldn't most people just go for a PC?

 

[Ninja Scooter]

And people act like the XOne is dead.

What's to stop Microsoft from making an exclusive version of Office with Onedrive support baked in? They could add a free skype subscription, free office, and extra one drive storage for the life of the console. Microsoft is the sleeping giant posed to take consoles to the next level. Their new CEO loves pushing services so this is a realistic possibility.

I don't like all the things associated with Xone but I'll switch for office and an app store.

 

[myharlequin]

people are so selfish, Some wants office, so? what is the matter? I would like to recieve an email and if it has a word or an excel attached I want to see it and reply,
(maybe with the office web app) but that is something that some people want. If you don't want this, just don't use it. period.

 

[Tigress]

people are so selfish, Some wants office, so? what is the matter? I would like to recieve an email and if it has a word or an excel attached I want to see it and reply,
(maybe with the office web app) but that is something that some people want. If you don't want this, just don't use it. period.

To say you want it is one thing. To claim it is going to be a game changing feature is another.

 

[Sporran]

So, the exclusive OS already present in Xbox One is whats coming to the PC, aka DirectX12.

 

[polyh3dron]

This is nice and all, but to the end user it really means nothing because MS is not going to open the thing up so that shit like an unrestricted XBMC can be run on it or anything. Also it doesn't mean anything in terms of the performance of multiplatform games, where it's being trounced by the PS4 at every opportunity.

 

[Memorabilia]

Windows 8 was a badly timed idea for PC...so naturally this makes it a good idea for a game console..,?

 

[$h@d0w]

Outlook, Office etc. are all real nice but then Microsoft fall into the trap that the PS3 did last generation - it did so much stuff that the message got confused and ultimately consumers didn't know what the box was - until Sony repositioned it as a game box.

 

[jpax]

That sounds like the next dGPU talk. Believe us there is something special here! Never forget we invented directx!

 

[Memorabilia]

What is the W8 App scene like? I don't have any W8 devices

Its non-existent.

 

[SlickShoesRUCrazy]

They forgot to mention the stacked, i mean "LAYERED" gpu, 128mb of esram, etc etc

 

[shacklesmcgee]

Its non-existent.

That's not true, the Acer tablet I bought came with a preinstalled drawing app called, I kid you not, Didlr. So windows phone has Didlr apps...that's something that exists in this reality. A children's drawing app called Didlr.

 

[Jburton]

And people act like the XOne is dead.

What's to stop Microsoft from making an exclusive version of Office with Onedrive support baked in? They could add a free skype subscription, free office, and extra one drive storage for the life of the console. Microsoft is the sleeping giant posed to take consoles to the next level. Their new CEO loves pushing services so this is a realistic possibility.

I don't like all the things associated with Xone but I'll switch for office and an app store.

This flies close to the call of the shill.


"Microsoft is the sleeping giant poised to take consoles to the next level"?

Hmmm.

 

[Memorabilia]

That's not true, the Acer tablet I bought came with a preinstalled drawing app called, I kid you not, Didlr. So windows phone has Didlr apps...that's something that exists in this reality. A children's drawing app called Didlr.

Lol

I just...

I dont even...

Maybe the geniuses in Redmond responsible for all the Xbone PR to this point can really take Didlr and run with it...

 

[mrklaw]

if the windows 8 app store was a thriving location for great windows apps, this could be huge - but it isn't (and I don't expect MS to allow normal windows apps access to xbox)

this could be a renaissance for media-focused apps in the living room - doing for the TV what the iphone did for smartphones when it opened the app store. But I'm skeptical for the moment.

 

[Memorabilia]

This flies close to the call of the shill.


"Microsoft is the sleeping giant poised to take consoles to the next level"?

Hmmm.

Had to be a joke post. No way that dude was being serious. Right?

 

[Jburton]

Had to be a joke post. No way that dude was being serious. Right?

We can only hope, but I think it was serious.

 

[Tablo]

Honestly sone of you are a bit out of touch if you don't think that bringing Office among other MS services to Xbox as an OPTION for consumers isn't significant. These are value adds and fundamentally make the box more versatile, it won't dilute or mess with your gaming, this is 2014, these are x86 based consoles. Be open minded about the potential for added software features.

 

[yuraya]

So what exactly is stopping MS from allowing legacy apps to be used with the Xbone? Its virtually indistinguishable isn't it?

Are they afraid people will catch a virus on some site and their bone will die? I mean couldn't people just download some antivirus software to get rid of the virus? (lol) It is what it is (PC) They say its fully capable of being an X86-64 machine. Than let it be...da fuq

 

[Tablo]

So what exactly is stopping MS from allowing legacy apps to be used with the Xbone? Its virtually indistinguishable isn't it?

That would not be smart, windows store app access, a good web browser and MS integrated software is good. Can't be too open for a console system. I kind of hope you were being sarcastic...

 

[yuraya]

Can't be too open for a console system.

Why not? People paid money for the device let them do what they want with it lol

 

[kitsuneyo]

It's probably worth noting that this post is very wrong.

Please name some good apps that are usable on a desktop PC or laptop then, I would seriously like to try them and be proved wrong.

 

[Tablo]

Why not? People paid money for the device let them do what they want with it lol

Then buy/build a PC. A console should be a more controlled environment, I firmly believe that. It allows for a more stable, reliable, and polished end user experience. Which is what they should be going for.

 

[Nydius]

Honestly sone of you are a bit out of touch if you don't think that bringing Office among other MS services to Xbox as an OPTION for consumers isn't significant. These are value adds and fundamentally make the box more versatile, , this is 2014, these are x86 based consoles. Be open minded about the potential for added software features.

So instead of TV TV TV it's OFFICE OFFICE OFFICE?

C'mon man. Even Microsoft's people (notably Phil Spencer) have noted that the lack of focus on gaming for their console has been holding down their brand thus far this generation. In the last month and a half the mantra coming out of the Xbox division has been games, games, games. Office and Office 365 are great value adds for tablets and PCs, not a gaming/entertainment console.

Also "it won't dilute or mess with your gaming" is the same argument that was going around regarding the TV integration during the reveal. We see how well that's panned out. It might be 2014 but that doesn't mean companies need to go batshit insane on digital convergence just for the extremely small percentage of people who would see such an addition as a value. Leave the productivity software where it belongs and let them continue their renewed focus on games.

 

[Tablo]

Totally disagree, just because they fail at adding features without fucking up the gaming focus of the box doesn't mean adding available software options for users is bad. Digital convergence makes sense when it's so trivial...Just put it there as an option that isn't getting in the way unless you want it available. Make it easy for users to manage what they are faced with.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

If this is true then it will be a real drag on the xbone's performance in the later part of it's life cycle.

In the past Sony has allowed developers to programme direct to the metal to extract more performance as the generation matures.

Having to go through Windows or a stripped down version of it pretty much means there will be a constant drag on performance.

No secret sauce for you!

 

[Souldestroyer Reborn]

What's the big deal about office nowadays anyway?

Why pay for office when you can get legitimate open source software that is pretty much identical to office...for free?

 

[ymmv]

Am I alone in thinking this was a crummy confusing article? None of what's reported here is new, since we already knew about the way the Xbox One OS was divided into three sections. What is new is the author's misreading of statements by Frank Savage and the author's lack of distinction between Windows and Windows RT.

AFAIK MS has always used Windows as the basis for the operating systems in their Xbox consoles. Take for example this quote from the Wikipedia article on the first Xbox:

The Xbox runs a custom operating system which was once believed to be a modified version of the Windows 2000 kernel. It exposes APIs similar to APIs found in Microsoft Windows, such as DirectX 8.1. The system software may have been based on the Windows NT architecture that powered Windows 2000; it is not a modified version of either.

That sounds pretty similar to this statement in the article:

The third tier ‘Exclusive Partition’ is the Exclusive OS, which in Frank Savage’s words is a “windows 8 that has gone on a massive massive diet…… lean and mean windows 8″. It has been hand tuned to remove any and all bottlenecks as well as bloatware.’

Those bottlenecks and bloatware are the stuff that's non essential for games but very much needed to run your average Win32/,Net desktop application - including games since they depend on all that stuff too. So no, you can't run Steam or any Windows games on the Xbox One. Familiarity with Windows APIs and DirectX will certainly help in bringing games over, but they still need to be ported from Windows to Xbox One. Reading the article you'd think it was as easy as copying the exexutable to the Xbox One and pressing the Start button.

Which leaves the secion about the Shared Partition. WinRT is running the show here and yes, MS is going to make it possible to write universal apps that can run on Windows 8, WinRT, Windows Phone and Xbox One. But we already knew about this too.

 

[c0de]

If this is true then it will be a real drag on the xbone's performance in the later part of it's life cycle.

In the past Sony has allowed developers to programme direct to the metal to extract more performance as the generation matures.

Having to go through Windows or a stripped down version of it pretty much means there will be a constant drag on performance.

No secret sauce for you!

What? Both consoles run an os, just like PS3 and 360, which also used Windows. Can't believe people are still believing Windows is a performance hog still.

 

[LilJoka]

Didn`t they say the other way around, that the apis and tools are so close that's so easy to port things over and it only took 4 people a month to port?

Check the insidesimracing channel on youtube, they asked him the question and he says otherwise.

 

[MrCunningham]

So, can we get some Forza on pc please! Port it over ms.

Forza 5 was already ported to PC by Microsoft as a showcase for DirectX 12 and was shown running on actual PC hardware. Doubtful they will ever release that publicly though.

 

[SpinningBirdKick]

What? Both consoles run an os, just like PS3 and 360, which also used Windows. Can't believe people are still believing Windows is a performance hog still.

I can't believe that some people don't realise that loading hardware registers directly is always faster than going through an API interface, even if that API is a direct pass through to the hardware registers in question.

Or are you going to dispute that?

 

[REMEMBER CITADEL]

Forza 5 was already ported to PC by Microsoft as a showcase for DirectX 12 and was shown running on actual PC hardware. Doubtful they will ever release that publicly though.

Forza 5 was not ported in its entirety, that was just a vertical slice. According to Greenawalt and Alan Hartman, that was just around 10% of work that would be required to port the whole game. They also said that they would never just port any of their existing games to another platform. Instead, they would build a whole new game tailored specifically to the platform's strengths.

 

[EGM1966]

Yea, I wasn't really arguing the likelihood of people using it for this, I was just offering some reasons as to why I could see it making sense. As for boardroom examples, I've generally seen a separate mic (that usually sits in the middle of the table) and a camera unit sitting beneath an otherwise standard TV screen. I've only really worked in smaller companies though, so that could be skewing my view on things. I don't think the Kinect would have too much trouble replacing this... especially for any new offices that haven't already bought into any solution yet (and consider how cheap the X1 is likely to be over the next couple of years).

I don't think the console stigma would be much of an issue really. The console looks extremely generic as is, and offering a unit without the Xbox branding (similar to Kinect for Windows) would be simple to do. Hell, it doesn't even need to be an Xbox, it could be a standard small PC with Kinect, it all makes essentially no difference as building the functionality for Windows is essentially building it for the Xbox anyway. Which is kinda my point in all this. I'm not really saying that these are things that MS should be chasing with the Xbox... but if they're going to get built for Windows 8 and Surface tablets anyway, then why prevent the Xbox from receiving the benefits as well? As useless as they may be to most people, I can't see why anyone would look at them as a negative. Part of the reason MS has so much problems in regards to their devices being surrounded by their competitors is because whilst their competitors were busy leveraging value across their devices, MS was busy creating completely segmented experiences with no incentive to remain with their other options (Windows/WP/Xbox).

I agree they should be leveraging a common ecosystem and clearly any and all apps/services that can be shared should be.

I just think that from a PR/Marketing point of view - unless they feel the situation has changed dramatically - the focus for Xbox side of things should be on services/apps that are of value in a home/connected to a TV setting for the moment.

MS have suffered with unclear marketing/PR around the XB1 since the reveal, and I believe they should avoid anything that could cause further confusion like the plague.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on the stigma of having an XB1 in a workplace environment. In my experience their would be a stigma in most cases vs using business designed equipment for the same job (equipment which in my experience probably does a better job in a meeting environment too).

 

[7DollarHagane]

Outside of corporate use (which would never allow sensitive documents on something like a games console) office is kind of dying off. Google's suite of free apps accomplish most of what a casual user would need for word processing and basic spreadsheet use.

At my work we use a lot of Google docs for tracking things that a lot of people need access to at the same time. Its just faster and easier if its a spreadsheet without a lot of formulas.

I don't think office is the big deal it used to be.

 

[kinoki]

I've used Win8 a couple of times and every experience is worse than the ones preceding it. With the bad word of mouth the OS has why would anything want to be associated with it? That includes Xbone.

And the discussion about Office on Xbone... If the console had been a success (it's not) it would have been a fun addition but with the general out-of-touch design of the console it would just be another nail in the coffin. I would however get a great laugh if they dedicated some room at E3 to showing it off. It would look so stupid no matter how they did it.

 

[c0de]

I can't believe that some people don't realise that loading hardware registers directly is always faster than going through an API interface, even if that API is a direct pass through to the hardware registers in question.

Or are you going to dispute that?

What? What exactly do you mean? Devs are circumventing the os and manually put data in registers? Or do you mean intrinsincs? Inline assembly? And what does this have to do with an omnipresent OS? I think you are confusing some parts here.

 

[c0de]

I've used Win8 a couple of times and every experience is worse than the ones preceding it. With the bad word of mouth the OS has why would anything want to be associated with it? That includes Xbone.

And the discussion about Office on Xbone... If the console had been a success (it's not) it would have been a fun addition but with the general out-of-touch design of the console it would just be another nail in the coffin. I would however get a great laugh if they dedicated some room at E3 to showing it off. It would look so stupid no matter how they did it.

You are confusing Windows 8 with the actual kernel part of Windows 8.

 

[Cynn]

No hypervisor? Sounds like the most hackable console ever, there's no patching every hole in an attack surface that complex.

The X1 may pull a PSP and sell tons after it's hacked. Of course software sales would die though.

 

[itxaka]

So what happens when they find a w8 exploit? Or is the kernel run on the security layer os?

 

[Memorabilia]

So instead of TV TV TV it's OFFICE OFFICE OFFICE?

C'mon man. Even Microsoft's people (notably Phil Spencer) have noted that the lack of focus on gaming for their console has been holding down their brand thus far this generation. In the last month and a half the mantra coming out of the Xbox division has been games, games, games. Office and Office 365 are great value adds for tablets and PCs, not a gaming/entertainment console.

Also "it won't dilute or mess with your gaming" is the same argument that was going around regarding the TV integration during the reveal. We see how well that's panned out. It might be 2014 but that doesn't mean companies need to go batshit insane on digital convergence just for the extremely small percentage of people who would see such an addition as a value. Leave the productivity software where it belongs and let them continue their renewed focus on games.

Completely agree with this. The idea of using Office on my 65" HDTV while sitting 12 feet away on my couch is just retarded. Why would I bother when simply flipping open my laptop on the couch is 1000x more efficient and ergonomic? Digital convergence is cool but it has limits beyond which the idea is simply ridiculous for 99.99% of the population.

 

[intheinbetween]

The X1 may pull a PSP and sell tons after it's hacked. Of course software sales would die though.

XBOX 360 has been hacked for many years and software sales had been quite healthy

 

[DieH@rd]

Well, now we know why Corrine Yu specifically mentioned "Windows 8" when he talked about switching from Xbone to PS4.

 

[Synth]

I just think that from a PR/Marketing point of view - unless they feel the situation has changed dramatically - the focus for Xbox side of things should be on services/apps that are of value in a home/connected to a TV setting for the moment.

They shouldn't heavily market it. It shouldn't take time at E3 or anything. It should just be there. Like OneDrive is currently there. Continue to focus on games publicly, but those that would like the added functionality would learn of it anyway, like media apps on PS3. Sony didn't spend time advertising the fact it had CrunchyRoll or whatever. I found them because I had a use for them.

Completely agree with this. The idea of using Office on my 65" HDTV while sitting 12 feet away on my couch is just retarded. Why would I bother when simply flipping open my laptop on the couch is 1000x more efficient and ergonomic? Digital convergence is cool but it has limits beyond which the idea is simply ridiculous for 99.99% of the population.

My TV is a 42" plasma, and I not only use Office on it, but everything else anyone would ever use a PC for. It's not ideal in all cases (Visual Studio could definitely use some more pixels), but I'd hardly consider myself "retarded" for doing so. There's essentially no cost to offering these options. Office is being developed as a Windows App, and would require almost no alterations to have working for Xbox as well. I'm really surprised by all the "less is more" opinions when it comes to console functionality. The OS is already there, whatever resources it would take from games have already been sacrificed. So give me as much stuff as possible to justify it.

Please name some good apps that are usable on a desktop PC or laptop then, I would seriously like to try them and be proved wrong.

I use Plex, Weave, Netflix and Comixology even when using my desktop machine. I guess you could say argue that desktop apps for some of these aren't actually available... but I don't see how that harms the point.

 

[Freeman]

Now we can add office to the chalkboard.

Joke aside, if they make it easy to create apps for Xbox One its a huge win for them.

I think consoles should be more open, I really liked the other OS thing PS3 had. I think they should release a developer toolset to allow anyone to build apps. This is the best thing to combat piracy (if they make sure this doesn't open any doors), let people run their homebrews and there will be much less incentive to hack you console. Sony should try something like this with the Vita and PS3 to see what happens, they got nothing to lose at this point.

 

[JaggedSac]

The unofficial Plex app is making progress:

There is not much that I can share at the moment, however I am comfortable with how things are progressing.