SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
I kind of hope the down clock is true. Microsoft needs a good ass kicking right now to bring out their A game...
But the eSRAM is causing the issues.
And Sony isn't using the eSRAM..
Yes he has good sources and doesnt play games with Gaffers....He was right about several of the new console details before they were leaked or revealed...Hes reputable...
Not really. Most next gen engines are scalable and they can just not aim for 1080p. XBO supposedly has a pretty nice scaler chip that would help with being sub-1080.
Sadly this use case won't work. The Xbox doesn't have a built in dvr and isn't able to program your existing one. It's pretty much only useful in a live TV setting...
I've had things wrong before too. I was led to believe there would be "special sauce"- when in reality all that was an audio processor, ES RAM, and move engines. I also was told sizes of the PS4 box that were totally false as well. Like I said, I'm not stating this as fact, but I've heard this issue from a source who is in the know, and I'm HAPPY to be wrong. I don't put myself out there for no reason.
how would sub-1080 not be completely unacceptable at this point?
thuway said:I've had things wrong before too. I was led to believe there would be "special sauce"- when in reality all that was an audio processor, ES RAM, and move engines. I also was told sizes of the PS4 box that were totally false as well. Like I said, I'm not stating this as fact, but I've heard this issue from a source who is in the know, and I'm HAPPY to be wrong. I don't put myself out there for no reason.
I've heard the same about the ESRAM (as I shared with another poster who mentioned as such in this thread), and truthfully I think that's where all of the yield issues are coming from. Whether they need to downclock something to improve yields for it is a different story, but MS' APU is much more complicated and required a lot more engineers at AMD/ATI for a reason.
People are....drawing conclusions from that video?
Really?
how would sub-1080 not be completely unacceptable at this point?
How would a problem in yields concerning ESRAM necessitate a drop in clock rate on the GPU? Wouldn't heat generally be the issue that would cause a drop in clock?
even the wii u has 32MB of embedded ESRAM...
I've been over this a few times. The use case can work and probably will work. There is nothing to stop them from adding "Record Current Show" as a voice command and it send the record IR command to your cable/satellite box. Any IR command that your cable or satellite box can receive should be easily programmed as a mapped voice command. People are overlooking that the DVR can and will still function while you're using it through the Xbox One.
Get used to it. Across all future platforms
the embedded RAM is a different section of the die than the GPU
if the GPU is causing yield quality issues then downclocking it might let them use the lower-quality chips being produced
if the eSRAM is causing issues downclocking the GPU will do nothing to fix them
is that clear enough?
Yea, it's definitely the more complex design of the two. I think they much rather come in understocked at launch, though, if it came to that, rather than mess with the GPU clocks.
I am not trying to bring out the MS Defense Force at me, but I've heard GPU clocks might be downgraded. 8-900 gigaflops for gaming. The APU is big. This isn't 100% confirmed though and is being done to improve yields.
CBoat do you mind adding anything?
Yea, it's definitely the more complex design of the two. I think they much rather come in understocked at launch, though, if it came to that, rather than mess with the GPU clocks.
Perhaps, that would seem to be the better choice, unless they are really scared of another RROD type situation.
Unless, like someone mentioned before, it has to do with heat from the GPU dissipating across the die and affecting the ESRAM performance. That's about the only thing I can see that it could be. Memory structures are repetitive and fairly easy to layout on a die once you have the cells designed for the process being used. It's just a matter of placing them to account for the speeds of the interface needed and their tolerance to heat. I don't really know anything about AMD's process or ESRAM in particular (or what they look like laid out in transistor form for a chip design) so my ability to speculate is fairly limited - that and I haven't done any VLSI work in like FOREVER!!
RROD situation was because of solder, not gpu yield
I am not trying to bring out the MS Defense Force at me, but I've heard GPU clocks might be downgraded. 8-900 gigaflops for gaming. The APU is big. This isn't 100% confirmed though and is being done to improve yields.
And if they come in understocked and it causes them to have massive shortages while PS4 is in ample supply?
I see them downclocking rather than taking that risk...Sony has too many advantages at this point.
So you firmly believe that Microsoft is incapable of releasing a product that performs poorly at launch? That's a pretty bold statement.
If it's a RAM yield issue down clocking the GPU doesn't really make sense.
1) I'm sure it's not as fast
2) It's not on an APU (CPU and GPU on one chip)
3) The GPU isn't as powerful as the one in the Xbone.
even the wii u has 32MB of embedded ESRAM...
i also really doubt that the GPU alone could cause problems like this, it would probably affect the whole chip. yield issues tend to be defective transistors which would require fusing parts of the chip off and providing less CPU/GPU compute or usable eSRAM space
yes basically i am saying that none of this is really making any sense
Let's just think of it as a target render. No harm no foul if they reach target by release, right?
Have devs ever got on stage and "played" a target render? Acted like and led the audience to think they were playing the real thing?
I kind of hope the down clock is true. Microsoft needs a good ass kicking right now to bring out their A game...
Aren't they semi-custom?
RROD situation was because of solder, not gpu yield
I really just want this industry to go back to Nintendo, Sony and PC. Yes, yes, ios and all that.
Wasn't it more due to the poor design of the X clamp which caused the board to arch enough for the solder joints to break?
Nope, I don't speak nearly as often on here about what I know for certain on the new Xbox. In fact, I try not to be the subject of any leaks, because I'd more or less be betraying someone's trust, but in the case of this most recent thing about a downclock of the GPU, I literally begged permission to say definitively that it's absolutely not true.
The only thing that's true is that they are having a bit of a headache with the ESRAM. THAT is certainly true, but (all speculation after this) I think that's more down to the manufacturing difficulty of the ESRAM and yields, not actually using a finished and working version of the GPU for software related purposes.
LOL. Nice dig
Not really. Most next gen engines are scalable and they can just not aim for 1080p. XBO supposedly has a pretty nice scaler chip that would help with being sub-1080.
Whoops. Could have sworn he quoted someone else. Thuway has been damn reliable and not a part of the secret sauce stuff. The only thing he was wrong about was dimensions for the PS4 and he owned up to that fast.
That was actually real-time. It just wasn't running on a XboxHalo 2
Well, it was a combination of the two
If they were using the lead based solder used on Xbox, there would have been zero issues.
The reason they used X clamp was because when the system is upright, it puts less strain on the motherboard as opposed to using 4 bolts like on PC
But because of the lead-free solder weakening under temperature stress, it caused fractures in the solder leading to eventual failure - X-clamp was kind of focusing the stress inside the mounting joints as opposed to stressing the outside of the joints
It's an eSRAM issue, which could be caused by too much heat dissipating from the GPU.
I am not trying to bring out the MS Defense Force at me, but I've heard GPU clocks might be downgraded. 8-900 gigaflops for gaming. The APU is big. This isn't 100% confirmed though and is being done to improve yields.
CBoat do you mind adding anything?