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Xbox Project Scorpio Announced - 6TFlops, 320GB/s - Fall 2017

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We're not going to get another 'generation' from MS, I think we can safely say that. We're just going to get consoles which get phased out in-terms of support when there's another 2 newer most likely. They'll all run the same OS' and play the same games. Hell, we'd probably still be able to play our GoW:UE copies on the console after Scorpio. Hopefully, anyway.

Well, im not sure about that. The only way games can really take advantage of Neo and Scorpio is if they dont have to make games for the lowest common denominator, namely the xbox one.

As long as they keep developing Scorpio games on xbox one, we will keep essentially getting (at best) prettier xbox one games.
 

cackhyena

Member
Well, im not sure about that. The only way games can really take advantage of Neo and Scorpio is if they dont have to make games for the lowest common denominator, namely the xbox one.

As long as they keep developing Scorpio games on xbox one, we will keep essentially getting (at best) prettier xbox one games.
That's the idea. Everyone gets to join in. It's no different than how games work for PC. No one is complaining there isn't revolutionary things happening with the world's most powerful PCs because they have to work with games made for the lower end PCs.

The system after Scorpio would likely be the next tier. Still be able to play those older games and keep everyone in the system, but that could be the starting point for a whole new level.
 
What do you guys think about recent PS4 Neo rumor? if it's end up true then i think Microsoft will push it to something like 7TF, so i hope it true lol.

More power, better gaming.
I think it's very unlikely that super overclock to hit 5.5. Sony might increase the clock a bit like ms did with xbone and that's it.

Everything is pointing to ms having an huge chip, and the initial leaks also said 6tf was not final. I'm not ruling out a minor overclock as well, but they are only changing anything substantial if devs response as that their box wasn't powerful enough.
 
What do you guys think about recent PS4 Neo rumor? if it's end up true then i think Microsoft will push it to something like 7TF, so i hope it true lol.

More power, better gaming.

Speculating: I think PS4 Neo will release with the same or similar specs as were initially leaked (2.1ghz Jag, 4.2TF GPU). I also think Scorpio will be over 6.0TF when it finally releases, though it may only be 6.1TF or something. I also think Scorpio will feature 8 Zen CPU cores.

Rumors peg Neo as having a Q4 2016, or Q1 2017 release, and I think Sony really needs to hit this fall. The more distance they have from Scorpio the better. And while Neo and NX will probably have very different design ideas, I think it would be smart to stay out of Nintendo's way. People who already have a PS4 and looking for a new purchase may be less inclined to jump to Neo (since they share the same ecosystem), if NX turns out to be something impressive.
 

cackhyena

Member
I'm really curious if Sony is taking the financial hit and upping the power. It was painfully obvious they ripped the Neo reveal out of the end of their conference. They knew it wouldn't do.
 

Servbot24

Banned
Is this generation going to last longer because of the Scorpio? The launch Xbox One shouldn't normally have too much time left by the point the Scorpio is released. Microsoft has promised that all games will function on both consoles. Doesn't that mean that Scorpio games will be very limited, unless they're exclusive? I'm so confused if this is something I should get. If people want UHD they can always buy the slim.
Hopefully it has a lot of time left. I feel like the gen is only beginning still.
 
That's the idea. Everyone gets to join in. It's no different than how games work for PC. No one is complaining there isn't revolutionary things happening with the world's most powerful PCs because they have to work with games made for the lower end PCs.

The system after Scorpio would likely be the next tier. Still be able to play those older games and keep everyone in the system, but that could be the starting point for a whole new level.

Yes but that makes for games that have to have the same features across all platforms. If they wanna push the envelope and make lets say BF6 128 players online instead of 64, they will not be able to cause the game has to be the same as the xbox one version feature wise. If they dont make a true "next gen" system and need to keep supporting the xbox one, there will be zero innovation.

On PC, there has never been a "requirement" to hold games back from extra features because of consoles. Some devs might have did "parity" but it was never officially required. Now its going to be required and that to me is much worse. Its not the same.
 

leeh

Member
Well, im not sure about that. The only way games can really take advantage of Neo and Scorpio is if they dont have to make games for the lowest common denominator, namely the xbox one.

As long as they keep developing Scorpio games on xbox one, we will keep essentially getting (at best) prettier xbox one games.
That's why I said phase out older hardware support, only keeping two at a time. Like Apple and iOS but in a bigger timescale.
 

Servbot24

Banned
I'm really curious if Sony is taking the financial hit and upping the power. It was painfully obvious they ripped the Neo reveal out of the end of their conference. They knew it wouldn't do.
I think they removed something, but Neo was never intended to be shown.
 

cackhyena

Member
Yes but that makes for games that have to have the same features across all platforms. If they wanna push the envelope and make lets say BF6 128 players online instead of 64, they will not be able to cause the game has to be the same as the xbox one version feature wise. If they dont make a true "next gen" system and need to keep supporting the xbox one, there will be zero innovation.

On PC, there has never been a "requirement" to hold games back from extra features because of consoles. Some devs might have did "parity" but it was never officially required. Now its going to be required and that to me is much worse. Its not the same.
Adding that many players to some multiplayer game isn't going to be some huge selling point. And looking at it from that standpoint is going about it wrong, think. I'd look at it like MS needs mind/market share back. Ditching everyone who just and only recently in the last few years, bought a XB1 is foolish. Bring them along with the newest most powerful console and incentivize with a lot of games being play anywhere. Gather people into the eco system and gain that good will back as much as you can. Then the next console is what you specifically are looking for. 6tf is huge. It's probably still not quite next gen, though. Not what we'd expect if these systems stayed on the market another 7 years before a reveal.
 

mitchman

Gold Member
I'm really curious if Sony is taking the financial hit and upping the power. It was painfully obvious they ripped the Neo reveal out of the end of their conference. They knew it wouldn't do.

They said before the conference that Neo would not be shown. They ripped the RDP2 teaser from the end of the conference according to rumours.
 

flkraven

Member
Quick question about what I really don't understand with the Xbox environment right now. So everything is basically Windows 10 right now with UWP etc. How difficult is it for devs to port games from PC to Xbox One and vice versa since its the same store, etc? Is it vastly easier than when devs make console + steam copies? More or less work?

Just curious, because if UWP makes it super easy for Console devs to port to PC, wouldn't that be incentive for devs to release in the Windows 10 Store? So we could see games like Destiny appear on PC? Or likewise the other way around, traditionally PC games could be ported to Xbox? Or is it way more difficult than that?

Edit: in the context of Scorpio. The more powerful, the more likely to get these PC ports, right?
 

leeh

Member
Quick question about what I really don't understand with the Xbox environment right now. So everything is basically Windows 10 right now with UWP etc. How difficult is it for devs to port games from PC to Xbox One and vice versa since its the same store, etc? Is it vastly easier than when devs make console + steam copies? More or less work?

Just curious, because if UWP makes it super easy for Console devs to port to PC, wouldn't that be incentive for devs to release in the Windows 10 Store? So we could see games like Destiny appear on PC? Or likewise the other way around, traditionally PC games could be ported to Xbox? Or is it way more difficult than that?

Edit: in the context of Scorpio. The more powerful, the more likely to get these PC ports, right?
That's the whole point, it's super easy. Literally as easy as clicking a button.

The only thing devs have to cater for are specific PC functionality, supporting KB/M, graphical menus, toggles etc. Regarding previous games, I don't actually think old X1 games were developed using UWP (pre DX12 on X1). Only the later games seem to be.
 

Hawk269

Member
Didn't Adam Boyes say the conference went down exactly the way it was planned for months?
It was just odd having a game play segment for a game you ran a teaser earlier and it being a closer. It was just very odd. Boyes of course is going to say that, if he didn't that opens up for speculation which is happening anyways because of how they closed the show.
 

flkraven

Member
That's the whole point, it's super easy. Literally as easy as clicking a button.

The only thing devs have to cater for are specific PC functionality, supporting KB/M, graphical menus, toggles etc. Regarding previous games, I don't actually think old X1 games were developed using UWP (pre DX12 on X1). Only the later games seem to be.

Why don't I hear as many people excited by this? Shouldn't PC people be thrilled that console exclusives have a high probability of being on PC if its this easy?
 

jbug617

Banned
I'm really curious if Sony is taking the financial hit and upping the power. It was painfully obvious they ripped the Neo reveal out of the end of their conference. They knew it wouldn't do.

Gies on RebelFM said there was speculation that Sony was going to move the Neo release date till Q1 2017 so he is not sure if it still coming this yr.

Didn't Sony tell investors they had plan to sell a lot more PS4 this year? I think it took into account that Neo was coming this year. Is there any fallback if they miss their projections?
 

cackhyena

Member
Gies on RebelFM said there was speculation that Sony was going to move the Neo release date till Q1 2017 so he is not sure if it still coming this yr.

Didn't Sony tell investors they had plan to sell a lot more PS4 this year? I think it took into account that Neo was coming this year. Is there any fallback if they miss their projections?
Probably. I don't know, it just seems like shooting yourself in the foot to do it this early.
 

leeh

Member
Why don't I hear as many people excited by this? Shouldn't PC people be thrilled that console exclusives have a high probability of being on PC if its this easy?
Cause UWP.

It's proof in the pudding as we've seen all the already announced 1st parties, magically appear as an "Xbox Anywhere" title. Regarding 3rd parties, I very highly doubt they'll allow cross-buy while forcing their game to be on W10 store and not on their own store-fronts & steam.

If we saw UWP apps being able to be sold and installed without needing the W10 store, we could see a difference.
 

flkraven

Member
Cause UWP.

It's proof in the pudding as we've seen all the already announced 1st parties, magically appear as an "Xbox Anywhere" title. Regarding 3rd parties, I very highly doubt they'll allow cross-buy while forcing their game to be on W10 store and not on their own store-fronts & steam.

If we saw UWP apps being able to be sold and installed without needing the W10 store, we could see a difference.


What if they tied cross-buy to Xbox Live Gold membership? Or charge like 10% more for cross buy? Heck, I don't even care about cross buy. Just excited that some PC games and apps will (hopefully) be easily ported to Xbox One. Maybe older games will get ported to the Windows 10 store and be playable on XB1?
 

jond76

Banned
It was just odd having a game play segment for a game you ran a teaser earlier and it being a closer. It was just very odd. Boyes of course is going to say that, if he didn't that opens up for speculation which is happening anyways because of how they closed the show.

This really isn't the thread for it, but I imagine that if Red Dead was to be announced/ shown at Sony's conference and was pulled due to Orlando, then surely they would have announced something by now.
 

Kabanossi

Member
So hyped for the upgraded consoles. I have been putting some money aside for a PS4K for a few months now. I think I'll start saving for Scorpio too. 30€ a month for a year and a half and I'll have 540€. That should be more than enough especially when I'm planning to sell my old Xbox One when Scorpio launches. I paid only 190€ for it so if I can sell it for even 100€'s I'm more than happy. Two years of gaming with an Xbox One for 90€.

And if something happens and I don't want the Scorpio any longer I can just use the money to buy something else. :)

Exciting times to be a console gamer.
 
So hyped for the upgraded consoles. I have been putting some money aside for a PS4K for a few months now. I think I'll start saving for Scorpio too. 30€ a month for a year and a half and I'll have 540€. That should be more than enough especially when I'm planning to sell my old Xbox One when Scorpio launches. I paid only 190€ for it so if I can sell it for even 100€'s I'm more than happy. Two years of gaming with an Xbox One for 90€.

And if something happens and I don't want the Scorpio any longer I can just use the money to buy something else. :)

Exciting times to be a console gamer.

Yeah, I'm honestly glad I haven't jumped into this generation of consoles and have been fine playing games on Xbox 360 and Laptop, I was going to get an Xbox One and PS4 but now will wait to get a PS4K at the end of this year, and Scorpio next year and catch up on the older and cheaper games.
 

bidguy

Banned
one things for sure if sony is using 4.2 and jaguar then scorpio with zen and 6tf will be miles and heaps stronger.

judging by devs like the doom coder from a few weeks back who loves the idea of scorpio, they will most definitely use every inch of power they can
 
Sadly the focus on TFs is a very common trend, but it's an easy metric for people to use when they don't actually know much about hardware tech. Raw computing power is all fine and dandy, but the real story here, like you say, is the architecture changes and massive boost to memory. The jump to 320GB/s bandwidth is massive on its own, but combined with new memory compression techniques and better CPU efficiency it's going to make for a beast of a system. I only wish we knew more about the CPU being used. If they are using Zen based cores we could be looking at not only higher clocks, but also a significant jump in IPC and hyperthreading, which would be practically a generational leap above the shit Jaguar cores.

The focus on Teraflops is severely understating the power gap between XBO and Scorpio, and even between Scorpio and the rumored Neo specs. If the rumored Neo specs are true, with a small clock boost to Jaguar cores and a very minor memory boost, then the gap between Neo and Scorpio is going to make the current PS4/XBO gap look like next to nothing.

At this point I'm just excited to see what devs get out of this thing. I'm fully aware that not all new games will probably end up benefiting from this new system in ways that are considered big enough for the the type of hardware in place, but high end games will nonetheless be in a very good place on something as capable as this is expected to be for many years.
 

mitchman

Gold Member
Didn't Adam Boyes say the conference went down exactly the way it was planned for months?

Yes. Doesn´t mean he´s tell the whole truth, though. Rumour says the RDR2 teaser was removed as it featured a guy entering a room and killing everybody. Not suitable to be shown right after the club massacre. Just a rumour, so who knows.
 
Yeah, I'm honestly glad I haven't jumped into this generation of consoles and have been fine playing games on Xbox 360 and Laptop, I was going to get an Xbox One and PS4 but now will wait to get a PS4K at the end of this year, and Scorpio next year and catch up on the older and cheaper games.

If you have Xbox Live have you been "buying" the Xbox one games as they come out as well as the 360 ones?
 

Gamezone

Gold Member
We're not going to get another 'generation' from MS, I think we can safely say that. We're just going to get consoles which get phased out in-terms of support when there's another 2 newer most likely. They'll all run the same OS' and play the same games. Hell, we'd probably still be able to play our GoW:UE copies on the console after Scorpio. Hopefully, anyway.

The launch Xbox One can't hold new systems back forever. At some point a PC also needs new hardware for games to be playable at all.
 
If you have Xbox Live have you been "buying" the Xbox one games as they come out as well as the 360 ones?

No, a lot of the indie games I've played and beaten on my laptop. Plus I don't like the fact that I don't own them. I have been getting all the Xbox 360 games though games with gold. By the time I get a Scorpio, all the older Xbox One games I want will be cheap as hell, and I'll just snatch them up digitally.
 

AmyS

Member
Indeed, I think the improvement is going to be a lot larger than people seem to think. People are focusing way too much on the GPU TF number. That is a big deal, but it doesn't take into account a better/faster CPU, improved GPU architecture, and more/faster memory and memory controllers. Assuming this thing has Zen APU based CPU cores and Polaris GPU architecture, then there are going to be major efficiency upgrades that take this thing way beyond a simple XBO games at 4K upgrade. I think 4K will be to Scorpio what 1080p is to PS4, not XBO. On top of that we will likely see improved textures when available, improved texture filtering, longer draw distances and LOD, improved effects quality, and more stable frame rates.

6TF is nice, but it's all the memory improvements that has me excited. Considering Scorpio will likely be running the same OS as XBO, almost all of the added memory should be going to games. So if it's 12GB then we could be going from 5GB for games to around 9GB for games. Combine that fact with nearly triple the memory bandwidth, improved memory controllers, and the memory compression built into Polaris, and the results could be incredible.

Polaris would have to be hugely overclocked to hit 6 TFLOPs. Eurogamer recons Scorpio will use a downclocked Vega. Larger GPU, but lower clockspeed would keep cooling more reasonable than a highly overclocked Polaris.
 
Polaris would have to be hugely overclocked to hit 6 TFLOPs. Eurogamer recons Scorpio will use a downclocked Vega. Larger GPU, but lower clockspeed would keep cooling more reasonable than a highly overclocked Polaris.

Only way Scorpio GPU is Polaris at 6 TFLOPs is if it's on a 10nm process. Since 14nm is far more likely, it's definitely Vega.
 
Adding that many players to some multiplayer game isn't going to be some huge selling point. And looking at it from that standpoint is going about it wrong, think. I'd look at it like MS needs mind/market share back. Ditching everyone who just and only recently in the last few years, bought a XB1 is foolish. Bring them along with the newest most powerful console and incentivize with a lot of games being play anywhere. Gather people into the eco system and gain that good will back as much as you can. Then the next console is what you specifically are looking for. 6tf is huge. It's probably still not quite next gen, though. Not what we'd expect if these systems stayed on the market another 7 years before a reveal.

Im not saying they need to ditch xbox one now, what im saying is in order to really push games to the next level, they cant be forced to also develop each of those games for xbox one as well. 6TF is nice but i just dont see how its going to bring much more (other than VR) if they are forced to make the game work with parity on xbox one as well. Its essentially just going to be better looking games and not much else. Im not sure thats worth the price of admission.
 

darkinstinct

...lacks reading comprehension.
Gies on RebelFM said there was speculation that Sony was going to move the Neo release date till Q1 2017 so he is not sure if it still coming this yr.

Didn't Sony tell investors they had plan to sell a lot more PS4 this year? I think it took into account that Neo was coming this year. Is there any fallback if they miss their projections?

They said 20 million PS consoles in the current financial year which ends in March 2017. PS4 alone sells 17 to 18 million a year, so you can easily see Neo was always planned for a March 2017 release. It's tough enough to sell a $500 VR set this holiday, selling both that and a $500 Neo was never going to happen.
 

jeffc919

Member
Im not saying they need to ditch xbox one now, what im saying is in order to really push games to the next level, they cant be forced to also develop each of those games for xbox one as well. 6TF is nice but i just dont see how its going to bring much more (other than VR) if they are forced to make the game work with parity on xbox one as well. Its essentially just going to be better looking games and not much else. Im not sure thats worth the price of admission.

Take a look at a game like Battlefield on PS4/X1, and then compare that to what it looks like on a high-ish end PC. As a console player, getting that will be worth every penny of the price of admission to me.
 

MuchoMalo

Banned
Speculating: I think PS4 Neo will release with the same or similar specs as were initially leaked (2.1ghz Jag, 4.2TF GPU). I also think Scorpio will be over 6.0TF when it finally releases, though it may only be 6.1TF or something. I also think Scorpio will feature 8 Zen CPU cores.

Rumors peg Neo as having a Q4 2016, or Q1 2017 release, and I think Sony really needs to hit this fall. The more distance they have from Scorpio the better. And while Neo and NX will probably have very different design ideas, I think it would be smart to stay out of Nintendo's way. People who already have a PS4 and looking for a new purchase may be less inclined to jump to Neo (since they share the same ecosystem), if NX turns out to be something impressive.

This is like saying that they should stay out of the OUYA 2's way if that's announced.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Is this generation going to last longer because of the Scorpio? The launch Xbox One shouldn't normally have too much time left by the point the Scorpio is released. Microsoft has promised that all games will function on both consoles. Doesn't that mean that Scorpio games will be very limited, unless they're exclusive? I'm so confused if this is something I should get. If people want UHD they can always buy the slim.

Scorpio won't extend the length of the "generation" At some point the industry will have to stop targeting the the older hardware (ps4 and xb1) if they want to be able to innovate.

At some point not too long after the Scorpio releases, I suspect both companies will announce new hardware.
Sony's will be the PS5. Microsofts will be a 'Scorpio S' in terms of hardware improvements. At this point, the Scorpio and PS5 will be the target hardware- Xbox One and PS4 will see their end of life.

This is all speculation of course . But I believe this is how it'll play out based on what these companies are saying about changing the business model. The high end model released towards the end of the 'generation' will become the base model for the following 'generation'.

Therefore you always have one unit bridging generations, meaning the installed base never starts at zero. It also means people can wait longer to upgrade without missing out on new games.
 

Bizzquik

Member
If Microsoft shoots for a November launch, that means we'd be 17 months away.

This was Microsoft's Sony E3 2005 conference.

Announced: May 16, 2005
Released: November 17, 2006

Given the large lead-up to the actual launch (~17 months), I think Scorpio needs to have amazing Day 1 support from all involved. New releases should look markedly better - or at least run better/faster.

Microsoft could further incentivize existing customers to upgrade by revisiting all previous first-party Xbox One games and making them optimized for Scorpio.
 

cackhyena

Member
Im not saying they need to ditch xbox one now, what im saying is in order to really push games to the next level, they cant be forced to also develop each of those games for xbox one as well. 6TF is nice but i just dont see how its going to bring much more (other than VR) if they are forced to make the game work with parity on xbox one as well. Its essentially just going to be better looking games and not much else. Im not sure thats worth the price of admission.
Oh it's worth it to me, baby.
 

Pif

Banned
This is like saying that they should stay out of the OUYA 2's way if that's announced.
Don't you dare trash talk OUYA 2. It would be amazing. A high end android dedicated gaming platform with the right content could be a killer if well executed.
 

AmyS

Member
Look at the hood LOL

MvO8nHm.jpg


Microsoft-SEGA, give us this game at native 4K 2160p.
 
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