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[VanWinkle]

BF4 is 900p though. Are we guessing the HUD and OS menu stuff would be on the same plane then?

Well, I mean, you have the PS4 OS. That is running at 1080p. The OS UI doesn't need to be upscaled. Then you have BF4. That is running at 900p. That means the the hardware scaler needs to upscale BF4. It doesn't need to touch the OS. Now, in addition, DICE may have rendered the HUD at 1080p and the actual game render at 900p. So if that were the case, only the game render needs to be upscaled. But I'm saying that, since the PS4 OS UI is rendered at 1080p, the two planes for hardware upscaling would be the HUD elements, and the game render.

Now, if you're talking about the GAME MENU, then yes, I would lump that in with the HUD elements on the same plane.

 

[plagiarize]

Score one for TechGAF. Seems the discussion about framebuffers not fitting into the 32MB pool of ESRAM were spot-on. Gonna be... Interesting... to see if devs try to wiggle around this, or if 720p just becomes the default resolution for multiplats over time.



There'll never be proper parity. The hardware disparity in itself can never be closed. The only thing MS can do at this point is fix up their SDK tools to try and lessen the gap, and that all assumes that devs aren't also getting more familiar with the PS4 at the same time, nor does it delve into what might happen when GPGPU starts being implemented on a wide scale and things like HUMA comes into play for the PS4.

therideneverends.jpg

It's that or we see a comeback of forward rendering. Which in some ways, for some games, I think I'd rather pre calculated lighting and 1080p / 60fps. Still, UE4 engine games, and Cryengine games, and Frostbite 3 engine game... those are probably going to all struggle with the frame buffer.

 

[FalsettoVibe]

At first I thought the two consoles would be much closer in terms of power. How did MS mess this up....?

 

[ChiliManiac]

Easy. As soon as MS gives devs access to dGPU with better tools + cloud - PS4 is toast. 4k patches WILL happen on Xbox One. Its MS's plan all along. Why else the media NDAs until launch? They are planning a big surprise.

Nobody has confirmed this have they? The dGPU is just a myth by desperate fanboys isn't it?

 

[Duxxy3]

At this point I don't really care. I am getting a PS4 for multiplatform games and sony exclusives. 1080p is very important to me.

When the XB1 hits $300 I will pick that up.

 

[backbreaker65]

Does the PS4 actually have a hardware scaler?

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=88133649&postcount=6521

Digital Foundry didn't mention the PS4 had a scaler only XB1. Shu, responds on twitter from a follower who asked him

https://twitter.com/yosp/status/395668915201667072

Carl ‏@carlbown1 6h
@yosp Hey Shu, can you confirm if the PS4 has a built in hardware scaler? BF4 seems to be using a software solution from 900-1080p

Shuhei Yoshida
‏@yosp
@carlbown1 yes, it has

 

[frizby]

Nobody has confirmed this have they? The dGPU is just a myth by desperate fanboys isn't it?

No. Yes. And you got trolled.

 

[nib95]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=88133649&postcount=6521

Digital Foundry didn't mention the PS4 had a scaler only XB1. Shu, responds on twitter from a follower who asked him

https://twitter.com/yosp/status/395668915201667072

Carl ‏@carlbown1 6h
@yosp Hey Shu, can you confirm if the PS4 has a built in hardware scaler? BF4 seems to be using a software solution from 900-1080p

Shuhei Yoshida
‏@yosp
@carlbown1 yes, it has

Shu stopping the FUD dead in its tracks.

 

[PhatSaqs]

How many more resolution based threads will we have? lol

 

[DieH@rd]

Does the PS4 actually have a hardware scaler?

Off course it has it, every GCN Radeon does.

 

[frizby]

I'm just happy to see Digital Foundry finally doing their job. It's probably too late to help early adopters, but FINALLY!

 

[stew]

the most common compliant we hear is that developers really want more than 32MB for their high-bandwidth graphics work.

Why would they really want more if it's impossible because of this hardware?

 

[mentallyinept]

How many more resolution based threads will we have? lol

Over the next two weeks? My prediction: one for every launch multi-plat.

 

[Valnen]

As long as games are 60fps, I could almost tolerate the absence of 1080p.

Why not spend $100 less and have both?

 

[Cels]

leadbetter wrote this. well color me surprised.

 

[Tallshortman]

Why would they really want more if it's impossible because of this hardware?

Because having more esram is better than having less? They're not saying it's a better solution than having GDDR5, they're saying if you're going to make us use this lesser hardware at least give us more of it.

 

[TrojanBlade]

Looks like MS check has not arrived in the mail box yet... tomorrow it will be a different story about how XB1 is more balanced and 720 > 1080 ....

Honestly I am surprised at the article considering his last articles

 

[Coffee Dog]

Kinect is very quickly looking to be Microsoft's Wii U Gamepad.

 

[Mr.Speedy]

Because having more esram is better than having less? They're not saying it's a better solution than having GDDR5, they're saying if you're going to make us use this lesser hardware at least give us more of it.

So let's say in a year or two the price of esram drops. Is it technically possible to add more esram to the X1 without any repercussions?

 

[Piggus]

Looks like MS check has not arrived in the mail box yet... tomorrow it will be a different story about how XB1 is more balanced and 720 > 1080 ....

Honestly I am surprised at the article considering his last articles

Leadbutter must have spent some time hardening up a bit in the fridge.

 

[nib95]

Looks like MS check has not arrived in the mail box yet... tomorrow it will be a different story about how XB1 is more balanced and 720 > 1080 ....

Honestly I am surprised at the article considering his last articles

When you're wrong... and have been for months, you're wrong. He probably spent far too much time with Microsoft PR and fed in to it all, and now the proof is in the pudding and he looks silly. This is part way towards a long road of atonement lol.

Still, I want Blim and Dark to start their own comparison site. I'll even do some of the design and Web work.

 

[Interficium]

So let's say in a year or two the price of esram drops. Is it technically possible to add more esram to the X1 without any repercussions?

That would be a new console.

 

[Crimson_Gold]

So let's say in a year or two the price of esram drops. Is it technically possible to add more esram to the X1 without any repercussions?

Sure. You'll just make developers code for two versions of the xb1.

 

[Piggus]

So let's say in a year or two the price of esram drops. Is it technically possible to add more esram to the X1 without any repercussions?

Nope. That would be the same as adding more system memory. Games developed for that specific hardware revision wouldn't run (or would be VERY slow) on the older hardware. MS are stuck with what they have.

Even if they could do it, it would be very expensive still and add to the complexity of an already overly complex APU.

 

[TrojanBlade]

When you're wrong... and have been for months, you're wrong. He probably spent far too much time with Microsoft PR and fed in to it all, and now the proof is in the pudding and he looks silly. This is part way towards a long road of atonement lol.

Still, I want Blim and Dark to start their own comparison site. I'll even do some of the design and Web work.

Sounds good...I can invest some money if that happens

 

[AstroNut325]

How many more resolution based threads will we have? lol

The amount of salt has been piling up. Nothing left to do but rub it on open wounds.

So yes... one or more threads per game. Not just multi-platform game... but PER game.

Edit:

Why not spend $100 less and have both?

Never ONCE in my life I thought I'd come across such a statement AND it being completely valid!

 

[Sleeplessnights]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=88133649&postcount=6521

Digital Foundry didn't mention the PS4 had a scaler only XB1. Shu, responds on twitter from a follower who asked him

https://twitter.com/yosp/status/395668915201667072

Carl ‏@carlbown1 6h
@yosp Hey Shu, can you confirm if the PS4 has a built in hardware scaler? BF4 seems to be using a software solution from 900-1080p

Shuhei Yoshida
‏@yosp
@carlbown1 yes, it has

Thanks

Off course it has it, every GCN Radeon does.

Is this supposed to be common knowledge? How did the DF article miss that?

 

[Into]

To me, "resolutiongate" regarding all these games seems less to do with actual visuals and much more to do with the overall value proposition.

If the price between these consoles was reversed or even same at 399, i dont think as many people would care. But because the more expensive console is offering less power, while being released same month, it amplifies the whole thing by a million.

Its why its so pointless to compare it to PS2 vs. Xbox/GC, as the PS2 first launched March 4, 2000 in Japan and Xbox launched November 15, 2001 in NA. Which is quite the time span.

 

[stew]

Because having more esram is better than having less? They're not saying it's a better solution than having GDDR5, they're saying if you're going to make us use this lesser hardware at least give us more of it.

But it's too late to have modifications, I don't understand why are they asking something they'll never get.
This sounds like there is more than 32MB of esram and MS don't want to unlock full access. But we know that there is only 32MB.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

Did I just read Leadbetter without my eyes bleeding?

It's a start, Rich. Keep it "balanced," and you may have your page hits back this gen. Though I guess I won't need DF anymore to know that one version is better...

 

[iJudged]

Only if they had not just included the damn Kinect and used that money for a little better gpu and ddr5, but they want to scan us and and and relevant ads and stuff lol.

 

[SmoothRunningGun]

I'm surprised a game jorno admits that resolution matters. Most act like they would be happy with 480p.

 

[NoMoreTrolls]

But it's too late to have modifications, I don't understand why are they asking something they'll never get.

ESRAM home installation kit incoming!

 

[frizby]

Did I just read Leadbetter without my eyes bleeding?

It's a start, Rich. Keep it "balanced," and you may have your page hits back this gen. Though I guess I won't need DF anymore to know that one version is better...

DF is about to become irrelevant...at least if they continue this newfound trend of intellectual honesty.

 

[Lettuce]

So basically if you buy a xbone you pay £80 more for a less capable machine than the PS4....way to go MS and dont try and play the Kinect card no one ever wanted that damn thing and seeing as theres no launch games for it its a massive paper atm....and probably always will be

 

[Demon Ice]

What is this mythical "dGPU" I keep hearing desperate XB1 fanboys talking about? Does that stand for dual GPU? As in people think there are TWO GPUs in the XB1?

 

[USC-fan]

I'm in the "gap will get smaller camp". Visuals will continue to improve on both systems, and PS4 will always have the edge (or at best parity for things like XBLA/PSN games), but I think XBO is off to a rougher start with poor/late dev tools and more confusing ESRAM architecture. I think within 6-12 months we will either have equal resolutions with more features on PS4, or the same features with 1080v900.

No way. Even pc version of these game look about the same. Gap going to keep getting worse as dev game take more advantage of the hardware.

Bottlenecks and low powerful do not go away. They are there for the life of the console.

50-100% spec differences never go away.

 

[Klocker]

give me 720-900p with more PP effects and solid frame rates (60 plz) and I'm happy

 

[frizby]

What is this mythical "dGPU" I keep hearing desperate XB1 fanboys talking about? Does that stand for dual GPU? As in people think there are TWO GPUs in the XB1?

Yeah, it was a misterxmedia crack-pipe dream.

 

[Piggus]

What is this mythical "dGPU" I keep hearing desperate XB1 fanboys talking about? Does that stand for dual GPU? As in people think there are TWO GPUs in the XB1?

Yep.

As Yosp once said, "let them dream."

 

[Demon Ice]

give me 720-900p with more PP effects and solid frame rates (60 plz) and I'm happy

How about 720 - 900p with the same or less graphical effects and lower frame rates?

Because that's what happened with BF4 and that's probably what's going to happen with every other multiplat game.

Yeah, it was a misterxmedia crack-pipe dream.

Yep.

As Yosp once said, "let them dream."

Hahaha, wow. Denial is a beautiful thing.

 

[Kazuma Kiryu]

give me 720-900p with more PP effects and solid frame rates (60 plz) and I'm happy

Good taste.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Yeah, it was a misterxmedia crack-pipe dream.

For some reason as silly as it sounds, reading his blog makes me furious

Insider: So you have heard about the dgpu right?

misterxmedia: Yes. Will blo guys away

Insider: What?

 

[SwiftDeath]

Arthur Gies was the only person there that claimed that there was little to no difference. Everyone else said that there was a big difference between the two versions. Jack Frags in his impressions video noted that multiple journalists agreed with him about the PS4's multiplayer looking better than the Xbox One's single player. And CV&G posted this in their review comments for BF4

Hi guys. We were told by EA we couldn't cover the Xbox One version, but clearly that's not what was sent out to other media.

I've added a previously edited line back in to the review pointing out that the PS4 version, to our critic, looked vastly superior to Xbox One. Expect a more detailed comparison shortly.

http://www.computerandvideogames.co...a-slick-introduction-to-next-gen-multiplayer/

Should be interesting to see how everything is fleshed out in the weeks to come

I have a feeling most reviewers will find the PS4 multiplats to be noticeably better looking on average and not indistinguishable in the least bit

Whether or not they report on that is another point entirely it would seem

 

[GodofWine]

What is this mythical "dGPU" I keep hearing desperate XB1 fanboys talking about? Does that stand for dual GPU? As in people think there are TWO GPUs in the XB1?

Well they were half correct.

 

[EGM1966]

Does the PS4 actually have a hardware scaler?

No the XB1 doesn't have a magic up-scaler and yes the PS4 does have an up-scaler which should be almost identical to XB1 (non-magical) up-scaler as it's the same AMD tech essentially. Also if you're rendering 1080p native you don't need to upscale.

Are people really believing that erroneous DF comparison and still thinking there is some magic up-scaler in the XB1 that's going to make 720p games on XB1 sharper than native 1080p on PS4?

There's a difference in capability in supporting games and it's not going away. MS sacrificed pure game-play performance for multi-media. There's no mystery here. If you want decent HD games with a large dollop of TV/media with stuff like Snap and Kinect then the XB1 is a fine choice (and I mean that sincerely) but it's never going to be as capable as PS4 when it comes to the games themselves.

It's like this gen (last?) with PS3 vs 360 - the PS3 had a Blu-Ray in it, it was always going to cost more (or at least for a long time). This time around XB1 costs more because of Kinect and delivers less performance because of multi-media and just like the Blu-Ray in PS3 that's never going to go away.

 

[Dr. Kitty Muffins]

If multiplat games are being pushed out on 4-5 platforms throughout next year, publishers may not spend the money to optimize for Xbox One.

This place would blow up if a game like Destiny was 720p/60 on Xbox One while the PS4 version ran at 1080p/60- even bigger if one version was locked at 30fps.

If we consistently see all of the big name multiplatform releases gimped on the Xbox One, it will be a rough first year for Microsoft - especially if Sony's first party releases are graphical powerhouses. It isn't like the Xbox One versions actually have more graphical effects but run at a lower resolution. They are just gimped, period. So much for being balanced. Scaling harms the picture and over the next few weeks, people will get their education on that subject - in full detail.

I'm expecting the next storm here at GAF to be Assassins Creed. I'm not sure if the Madden or FIFA crowds care as much about frame rates and resolutions. If we see kids roaring about differing resolutions for each version of Skylanders, though, I'll laugh.

Either way, Sony should speak more about how this illustrates their power advantage. It is part of the value proposition, after all. If this type of thing ends up tipping sales, it may become harder for Microsoft to pay for third party exclusives. Developers will not want to side with a company if the majority of gamers are gaming elsewhere.

 

[Tulerian]

This all makes me wonder exactly what went on post Feb PS event until the XB reveal months later. Despite the delay they seemed to not be prepared and gave out mixed messages and were totally unaware of the impending backlash despite concerns being raised everywhere over DRM etc.

I think they were embroiled the whole time in meetings debating risk to continue with what they had and try to mislead, or the cost/impact of a huge delay to upgrade specs and giving Sony a huge market lead.

Sony blind sided them perfectly, and they were in a no win situation imo.

Oh to have been a fly on that wall...

 

[plutoknight]

Sure. You'll just make developers code for two versions of the xb1.

They could always go the N64 route!

MS would -love- to sell you a memory add-on for your Xbone.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

This all makes me wonder exactly what went on post Feb PS event until the XB reveal months later. Despite the delay they seemed to not be prepared and gave out mixed messages and were totally unaware of the impending backlash despite concerns being raised everywhere over DRM etc.

I think they were embroiled the whole time in meetings debating risk to continue with what they had and try to mislead, or the cost/impact of a huge delay to upgrade specs and giving Sony a huge market lead.

Sony blind sided them perfectly, and they were in a no win situation imo.

Oh to have been a fly on that wall...

As much as I have really enjoyed Xbox over the years I have to say tough shit to them. That reveal was fucking terrible but not totally surprising, you could see where they were heading in previous E3's and the reveal was the pinnacle of that. It says a lot when the vast majority of your PR has been damage control.