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[Aeana]

Does that mean fans need to be jerks to representatives trying to be polite and courteous? I think not.

I have no doubt that it is wyrdwad's intent to be courteous, but he has said several things that ended up being untrue. Hopefully you agree that representatives should be held accountable for what they say.

I don't think I have been unreasonably harsh. I also have not made any personal attacks toward wyrdwad himself. I have framed my arguments in the context of XSEED and its PR, not wyrdwad, even if wyrdwad himself has been responsible for some of the untruths that have come from the company (such as the sales line). (Yes, wyrdwad, I realize you have already apologized for this, and this is the last time I will mention it, I promise.)

On the day the Falcom deal announcement was made, I cautioned that if XSEED could not follow through and at least get SC out, there would be dire repercussions from fans. The PSP's situation was already dire at that time. It is even worse off now. I wish the PSP God of War numbers were public so I could post them, but the drop off from Chains of Olympus to Ghost of Sparta tells the entire story here.

The situation XSEED is in is very, very regrettable. You'll find that I am not faulting XSEED at all for not actually releasing the game - because I know that it is extremely unrealistic. I also don't doubt that XSEED will try to find other avenues for releasing the game, but I do think that in the meantime, it should avoid building up fans' hopes and making empty placations because it will only make things worse in the end.

 

[Sqorgar]

I think I may have been unduly hard on XSEED. They haven't failed anybody yet, though it does appear that they are softening everybody up for an eventual failure. I'd like to give them the benefit of the doubt, but I've just been repeatedly disappointed this gen and I'm finding it hard to trust anybody anymore. It's not XSEED. Hell, Nintendo, Sega, and Namco have had more egregious offenses within the last few months alone.

I'm just frustrated and there's just no way for me to vent this frustration. I'm not just frustrated at this series, but also Xenoblade, Valkyria Chronicles 3, Mother 3, and every other great game we've been deemed financially unworthy to behold. It's just too much. Whatever XSEED's intentions are, my faith has been shaken to the core. I'm not even sure what they could do to restore it, but "it's not a priority" and "we might not even release it" isn't helping.

So, I am sorry for putting all this on the XSEED's shoulders. They are fighting the good fight and do as good a job as could be expected. It's just that I doubt. I doubt so very, very much.

 

[wrowa]

Man, you guys are really taking this the worst way possible!

Maybe you are managing that whole Trails thing the worst way possible. Just saying. The way you express it makes it sound as if you want to blame the fans for something. Even though I'm not sure what exactly this something is supposed to be.

You never announced the release of SC? That's just a lazy escape route. You did announce that you acquired the license to publish the series -- that might not be a formal announcement, but it was obvious that everyone would understand that as an announcement of the games. No publisher claims to have bought the licenses for something which it might release sometime. And, maybe I'm thinking too badly of you, but I get the feeling that you did that on purpose. After all, you knew that many people would be thinking twice about buying the first game, if they didn't know that you would release the rest of the trilogy too.

You are a publisher, your intent is to gain money in order to stay in business. That's the legitimate way of doing these things. We, however, are fans of the games you publish. And fans have other interests altogether. In this case it's that we want the release of the second game of a trilogy. That's our legitimate interest. That might not be a possibility for you right now, but in that case you have to live with the fact that many of your fans are angry with you and will remain angry for some time. That's what happens when a company doesn't satisfy the interests of the fans.

I honestly think that you shouldn't have started releasing Trails to begin with. If you can't be sure that you'll be able to release all of the games of a trilogy, you should have known that the backlash was inevitable and that the fans will feel cockteased.

 

[Rahxephon91]

I was thinking of picking this up now that I have a new PSP. Guess I'll pass. At least I bought your Ys games.

 

[cj_iwakura]

I was thinking of picking this up now that I have a new PSP. Guess I'll pass. At least I bough your Ys games.

It's a solid game, and worth owning. Just really, really time-consuming. (Not quite a negative.)

 

[wyrdwad]

"I wish the PSP God of War numbers were public so I could post them, but the drop off from Chains of Olympus to Ghost of Sparta tells the entire story here."

The God of War games attain sales numbers that we could never even dream of, though. That's why the situation is a bit different for smaller publishers. The sales numbers brought in by niche PSP games, on the whole, are really no worse than sales numbers brought in for PS3 or Xbox 360 games of a similar niche -- and in many cases, they're actually a little higher! I guess what it comes down to is, one company's "low sales" can sometimes equate to another's "record sales."

It's for that reason that I claim the PSP is NOT dying, nor even on its last legs... not for us small publishers, anyway.

But by the same token... not every game sells the same. Sometimes, we expect one game to sell similarly to another, but that simply doesn't happen, even though absolutely everything seemed to indicate that it would. That's the problem with the market: You just can't tell. Every game is a gamble anymore -- there are no safe properties.

All we can do is keep gambling, though, and make our future decisions based on how well those gambles pay out. But so far, releasing games on PSP has proven (overall) to be far less of a risky, unprofitable thing to do than larger companies or fans might assume.

 

[cj_iwakura]

Low cost, low risk, I assume, but the time and effort needed to translate the ridiculous amount of text in a Trails game can't come easy.

 

[Paracelsus]

Gambling doesn't involve long-term planning though, it's suicidal.

 

[Dark Schala]

Oh my, this thread needs a Cliffsnotes... I just saw that Twitter thing and I was just like @_@ because it was somewhat similar to the Capcom Europe twitter feed, only with far less stupidity.

I'll say this: I'll support XSEED as long as they keep bringing over games I want to play. I have a copy of Solatorobo here right now (but I can't play it at all this week, lol). I'll support them for GKH and Corpse Party.

But it sucks whenever it seems like their PR statements suggest that fans aren't doing enough to support them, or that they're backpedalling on their plans or promises (ie: we're bringing out the three Sora no Kiseki games, don't worry about it!) even though everyone knew that the PSP was not a big system and that it was already in a dire situatoin. I think it's cool that the PSP is still getting support because it's been my system of choice lately, but implying that the games' localizations are up in the air or having a really optimistic view of the state of the PSP in the west is throwing me off a little. It's their PR that's bothering me, not the fact that they may not be able to release the rest of the trilogy (though I do think they should find other ways to release it, be it on Vita, DD or even the PC version).

I just wish they'd be more transparent in their PR and sound less like they're putting a bit on the fans' shoulders by saying that they should support it a little more.

I like XSEED. I like their stuff, I like that they go above and beyond for fans with regards to packaging and bringing stuff out, but some of the stuff that they've said in PR makes me shake my head.

 

[wyrdwad]

Paracelsus: Yeah, we may have bitten off a bit more than we can chew... but we're still moving our jaws anyway, and hopefully we can mash it down pretty good in the end, and not choke on it.

The real thing you guys should take away from this is that, despite all else, we're still working on Trails 2. A saner company probably WOULD have just given up on it at this point, and taken the hit to their reputation... but we lost all shred of our sanity long ago.

Dark Schala: We really did mean that more in the sense of "we wish more people would buy our stuff." I'm sorry, again, if it came across any differently.

 

[duckroll]

Did you know that I still cry into my pillow at night sometimes, thinking about RGC2?! XSEED ruined my life!

 

[pancakesandsex]

Paracelsus: Yeah, we may have bitten off a bit more than we can chew... but we're still moving our jaws anyway, and hopefully we can mash it down pretty good in the end, and not choke on it.

The real thing you guys should take away from this is that, despite all else, we're still working on Trails 2. A saner company probably WOULD have just given up on it at this point, and taken the hit to their reputation... but we lost all shred of our sanity long ago.

Dark Schala: We really did mean that more in the sense of "we wish more people would buy our stuff." I'm sorry, again, if it came across any differently.

Personifying your organization as the scrappy underdog who "just won't give up!" is not going to make up for being an unreliable.

 

[krYlon]

Personifying your organization as the scrappy underdog who "just won't give up!" is not going to make up for being an unreliable.

So, how have they been unreliable then?

They never promised to bring Half Minute Hero 2 or RGC2 over, and unless you have a crystal ball we don't know about the rest of the TitS series.

 

[duckroll]

So, how have they been unreliable then?

Can't speak for others, but I found their translation for Ys7 to be sub-par and very disappointing.

 

[krYlon]

Can't speak for others, but I found their translation for Ys7 to be sub-par and very disappointing.

Well that's not what I (or pancake) meant, and you know it isn't

 

[duckroll]

Well that's not what I (or pancake) meant, and you know it isn't

I'm just adding another point in! My experience with XSEED has been RGC and Ys7, and they have disappointed me in both those areas!

 

[Man God]

So, how have they been unreliable then?

They let those bastards at Ignition ruin ARF and Muramasa!

Spoiler

I've found almost no problems with any of their releases, and think they did a particularly masterful job on RGC. Ys 7 was a bit boring, but then again, so was the Japanese version!

 

[B.K.]

Can't speak for others, but I found their translation for Ys7 to be sub-par and very disappointing.

And don't forget the time with Wild ARMs 4 when they removed a few enemies from the game, but not from the monster database, making it impossible to get one of the keys to unlock features in new game+ mode.

 

[krYlon]

I'm just adding another point in! My experience with XSEED has been RGC and Ys7, and they have disappointed me in both those areas!

But you said you loved RGC, so it didn't disappoint you. The fact that you want a sequel so much shows what a great job XSEED did with that game... so there!

 

[Aeana]

They let those bastards at Ignition ruin ARF and Muramasa!

Spoiler

I've found almost no problems with any of their releases, and think they did a particularly masterful job on RGC. Ys 7 was a bit boring, but then again, so was the Japanese version!

Ehhhh, in the Japanese version of Ys 7, people actually have unique ways of speaking. Everybody sounds exactly the same in the translation. The translation is very, very dry compared to the original text.

 

[Man God]

And don't forget the time with Wild ARMs 4 when they removed a few enemies from the game, but not from the monster database, making it impossible to get one of the keys to unlock features in new game+ mode.

Who cares, even numbered Wild ARMs games are terrible anyways. They just saved you some time.

 

[B.K.]

Who cares, even numbered Wild ARMs games are terrible anyways. They just saved you some time.

Just because it isn't a game you like doesn't excuse a sloppy release.

 

[Eusis]

It WAS a first effort too though, there haven't been those sloppy mistakes afterwards far as I can tell, unlike NISA.

 

[Varion]

Yeah, Trails of Zero, the beginning of the NEW series. Protip, that one ends on a cliffhanger too and the sequel, Trails of Blue, picks up in the same SCENE.

Loose ends yes, FC level cliffhanger no. As for picking up at the same scene, I have no idea where you got that from but it's completely false. Ao starts a few months after the end of Zero.

Well, if Namco actually announced Vesperia PS3, this might be a more valid comparison. However, they did no such thing.

I think some fans need to have some respect for themselves and stop apologizing for corporations.
Sadly, we can't all get what we want.

So wait, it's okay for Namco Bandai to lead people on by sticking Vesperia's logo in their big teaser for Graces "because at least they didn't formally announce it" and yet XSEED saying they've acquired the license for a game but it's progressing slowly is completely unacceptable and anyone who defends it is "apologising for corporations"? What?

I just wish they'd be more transparent in their PR and sound less like they're putting a bit on the fans' shoulders by saying that they should support it a little more.

If anything this thread suggests they should probably be a bit less transparent in their PR. If they'd just done what most other companies would've done and said "We have nothing to say about SC at this time" then this thread wouldn't exist. Instead they tried to give people a progress update and admit they're having difficulties, and as a result we get this.

 

[Aeana]

Loose ends yes, FC level cliffhanger no. As for picking up at the same scene, I have no idea where you got that from but it's completely false. Ao starts a few months after the end of Zero.



So wait, it's okay for Namco Bandai to lead people on by sticking Vesperia's logo in their big teaser for Graces "because at least they didn't formally announce it" and yet XSEED saying they've acquired the license for a game but it's progressing slowly is completely unacceptable and anyone who defends it is "apologising for corporations"? What?


If anything this thread suggests they should probably be a bit less transparent in their PR. If they'd just done what most other companies would've done and said "We have nothing to say about SC at this time" then this thread wouldn't exist. Instead they tried to give people a progress update and admit they're having difficulties, and as a result we get this.

Oh, no doubt, that stunt was stupid and deserving of reprisal. But it isn't quite the same as announcing a game.

 

[krYlon]

Oh, no doubt, that stunt was stupid and deserving of reprisal. But it isn't quite the same as announcing a game.

I genuinely don't know this, but did they actually announce the games would be released, or just announce they acquired the license?

 

[redlemon]

Wow the amount of hate is insane here. I guess maybe I can't really understand since xseed doesn't publish in Europe. I really can't see how fans are being blamed for anything. They said 'hey go tell your friends about our game so it can sell more'. That doesn't mean your being blamed if it still doesn't sell enough. There is seriously some bizarre logic going on here.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

I genuinely don't know this, but did they actually announce the games would be released, or just announce they acquired the license?

The initial press release stated

In addition, the deal will allow XSEED Games to release the next three chapters in Falcom’s popular The Legend of Heroes series, The Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky trilogy (known as the Sora no Kiseki trilogy in Japan), to the North American market on the PSP system.

which by using the word "allow" technically isn't a definite announcement even though it sounds like one. Their statements in interviews at the time -

Don't question how it gets done because the specifics on the amount of text being translated is mind-boggling, just enjoy the fruits of their labor finally getting this amazing trilogy to American shores for all to enjoy.

- certainly sound like an assured commitment to the entire trilogy.

 

[chaosblade]

Wow the amount of hate is insane here. I guess maybe I can't really understand since xseed doesn't publish in Europe. I really can't see how fans are being blamed for anything. They said 'hey go tell your friends about our game so it can sell more'. That doesn't mean your being blamed if it still doesn't sell enough. There is seriously some bizarre logic going on here.

I don't think the problem here is specifically with XSEED so much as the localization segment of the industry in general. Unfortunately, XSEED just happened to be the company in the wrong place at the wrong time and is getting the brunt of the frustration.

 

[krYlon]

- certainly sound like an assured commitment to the entire trilogy.

OK fair enough, that is pretty misleading.

 

[Famassu]

Their statements in interviews at the time -



- certainly sound like an assured commitment to the entire trilogy.

And they are still commited to it (as in, they are advancing in localizing SC), so what's the problem? It's just that the release of the game is somewhat out of XSeed's hand, even if they some day did complete the translation of SC.

 

[wyrdwad]

"Their statements in interviews at the time - - certainly sound like an assured commitment to the entire trilogy."

And we're still committed. But reality sometimes sucks, you know? Not every project ends in success. We try to make sure we don't say anything until we're absolutely certain the release WILL happen -- but sometimes, even when we're absolutely certain, the release goes away through situations beyond our control. The future is never a certainty.

We probably shouldn't have announced our acquisition of the whole trilogy, but we did, and we're suffering the consequences of that announcement now. But even if we hadn't said anything, we still would've proceeded exactly as we are -- you just would have no idea whether or not we're working on SC at all.

And ultimately, isn't it better knowing that we are?

 

[Clevinger]

- certainly sound like an assured commitment to the entire trilogy.

So because they said they wanted to do all three, that means they should do all of them regardless of how shitty each one sells?

 

[Jucksalbe]

If you release SC, I guarantee I'll buy it in whatever form it's released. So make that a +1 on your projected sales, so you can work on it for a second more per week. When it's released we might get it two minutes earlier then.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

"Their statements in interviews at the time - - certainly sound like an assured commitment to the entire trilogy."

And we're still committed. But reality sometimes sucks, you know? Not every project ends in success. We try to make sure we don't say anything until we're absolutely certain the release WILL happen -- but sometimes, even when we're absolutely certain, the release goes away through situations beyond our control. The future is never a certainty.

We probably shouldn't have announced our acquisition of the whole trilogy, but we did, and we're suffering the consequences of that announcement now. But even if we hadn't said anything, we still would've proceeded exactly as we are -- you just would have no idea whether or not we're working on SC at all.

And ultimately, isn't it better knowing that we are?

I appreciate what you guys are trying to do and I know you have good intentions. I would feel better about this if you had made clear what you could promise and what you could not from the very beginning. It doesn't seem like you started the Falcom deal with a realistic mindset.

 

[Hours Left]

I was thinking of picking this up now that I have a new PSP. Guess I'll pass. At least I bought your Ys games.

This is what I was worried about. The uncertainty is driving people away, the exact opposite of what needs to happen.

But the first game is totally worth it on it's own. It's really fantastic. I put over 90 hours into my file and I don't feel like I only played half of a game. It's a completely rewarding experience on it's own merits.

 

[Kikujiro]

I'm just adding another point in! My experience with XSEED has been RGC and Ys7, and they have disappointed me in both those areas!

So don't buy their games, problem solved?

The hate is amusing, and to respond to Aena, they didn't promise anything, the initial press release can be interpreted in various ways, exactly like Namco teasing with Vesperia PS3. They are still committed to release the others, but the situation is not easy since the game didn't sell well, I don't know what's so hard to understand.

But I guess it's easier to jump on their throat like they are the worst company ever, well that's the best thing gamers are capable of.

 

[Eusis]

Actually in the case of Vesperia it sounds like it DID do pretty well: problem is late PS3 ports rarely do, no matter how successful the game was in the first place. Just look at ME2, I don't think it even broke 100k in its first month on the PS3.

 

[Aeana]

So don't buy their games, problem solved?

The hate is amusing, and to respond to Aena, they didn't promise anything, the initial press release can be interpreted in various ways, exactly like Namco teasing with Vesperia PS3. They are still committed to release the others, but the situation is not easy since the game didn't sell well, I don't know what's so hard to understand.

But I guess it's easier to jump on their throat like they are the worst company ever, well that's the best thing gamers are capable of.

I think I'd say that one thing that gamers are even better at than raging is defending corporations counter to their own interests.

It's pointless to continue this debate because we will never reach an understanding.* And people will just keep escalating their allegations, as you have. I never even remotely implied that XSEED is the worst company ever. They don't have to be the worst company ever to be guilty of certain things, however, and I most certainly do not think they should be absolved from anything they have done just because there are companies out there who are worse.

You could've at least spelled my name right.


* Especially since a lot of the people responding to me aren't even countering what I'm saying. I haven't even once insisted that XSEED should release SC no matter what, only that they should stop stringing fans along.

 

[bubnbob]

Thank you for what you've given us so far, XSEED.

Signed,

Indifferent Gamer

 

[Kagari]

I was under the impression that the others were coming...

If anyone is to blame, it's XSEED for misleading people.

 

[Brazil]

If XSEED officially announces SC, I'll run to a store and pick up the first game. If not, I'll pick it up eventually when I find it cheap.

Right now I'm pretty happy with the company. I'm playing through the awesome Solatorobo, and placed my pre-order for the Fishing Resort bundle just yesterday. It'll suck if they don't release the entire series in the West, but one chapter out of three is better than zero out of three.

 

[Kagari]

If XSEED officially announces SC, I'll run to a store and pick up the first game. If not, I'll pick it up eventually when I find it cheap.

Right now I'm pretty happy with the company. I'm playing through the awesome Solatorobo, and placed my pre-order for the Fishing Resort bundle just yesterday. It'll suck if they don't release the entire series in the West, but one chapter out of three is better than zero out of three.

See, that's it. I don't think you'll be finding it for cheap any time soon.

 

[kuroshiki]

Well, at least I got YS series. I'm at least thankful for that. =D

 

[B.K.]

If anyone is to blame, it's XSEED for misleading people.

Haven't you been reading the thread? It's not their fault. They didn't mislead anyone. It's OUR fault for assuming they were going to release games they announced.

 

[Brazil]

See, that's it. I don't think you'll be finding it for cheap any time soon.

"Cheap", where I live, means "a little more expensive than the US MSRP, but not too much", not "cheaper than the US MSRP".

 

[Kikujiro]

Haven't you been reading the thread? It's not their fault. They didn't mislead anyone. It's OUR fault for assuming they were going to release games they announced.

It seems you didn't read the thread, but it's a useless debate, have fun with your daily dose of hate.

 

[InfiniteNine]

See, that's it. I don't think you'll be finding it for cheap any time soon.

Dunno, I've seen all their Falcom releases at the GameStop and grocery store I go to for cheap brand new for the past few months. Been meaning to grab them eventually but I rarely go to GameStop and when I go to the grocery store my priority is usually to get something to eat and rush home to make it. Need to eventually remember to grab those and that copy of Strange Journey that's been sitting there forever too.

 

[kuroshiki]

So, to XSEED employee who is reading this...

Did YS series made any money to you guys?

 

[Pyrrhus]

Since we're piling on, can I say that I thought the Harry Potter joke in the Ys I translation was awful and had no place being there? (Actually, most of the canned, cliched nerd humor was out of place.)

Also, I was afraid this would happen with Tits.