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[Kusanagi2086]

According to the latest kickstarter update backers who had selected steam as their platform will not get it on release it will be an epic key however they added the option to get a steam key later on.

Hello Everyone,


Regarding the recently announced Epic Games Store exclusive, all of us here at YSNET, Deep Silver and Epic are taking the matter with utmost concern and would like to clarify the circumstances leading to the decision and offer backers options for moving forward.




As noted in the updates and survey at launch, we had originally planned for PC distribution through Steam. Taking publishing and sales considerations into account, YSNET and Deep Silver agreed to our partnership with Epic Games Store on PC version distribution. As a publishing partner, Deep Silver has greatly contributed not only to sales and marketing, but to scaling up the game so there is more Shenmue III to begin with. Also, Epic Games has been with us from the start of the project when we adopted Unreal Engine 4 for development, and have given us their support throughout the development process.



In response to backers who have requested Steam keys for their rewards, we discussed offering the keys on the day of release. However, coordination with the sales policies of the involved companies was untenable, and as a result we are not able to make a day one distribution option for Steam keys available.



That we are not able to offer Steam keys for Kickstarter rewards at the time of the game’s release is a great disappointed and inconvenience for those backers who were expecting to receive them. We deeply apologize for the unrest caused by the announcement.




Response Policy


The team would like to offer the following:



Version Availability


a. PC Physical: Package (Disc) ＋ EGS Key


b. PC Digital: EGS Key


c. PS4 Physical: Package (Disc)


d. PS4 Digital: PSN Voucher Code


*If selecting either the PC Physical or PC Digital version, an option to also receive a Steam key one year later will be available. Backers must manually select this option in the survey to receive the Steam key.


**If you had previously selected PC and want to change to PS4 or vice versa, you may do so.


Concerning Refunds

Along with Deep Silver and Epic Games, we have agreed that should the above proposal not be acceptable to backers, refund requests will be honored.

Details concerning the refund request process will be announced in a following update. We ask for your patience until that time.

*In the case rewards within your reward tier, such as in-game content, have already been created and implemented, a full refund may not be possible.

 

[Whitecrow]

Sounds like an 'hey, you used Unreal Engine and we supported you, so come to my store, or else...' to me.

 

[Kazza]

You seemed to have missed the most crucial part:

Concerning Refunds

Along with Deep Silver and Epic Games, we have agreed that should the above proposal not be acceptable to backers, refund requests will be honored.

Details concerning the refund request process will be announced in a following update. We ask for your patience until that time.

*In the case rewards within your reward tier, such as in-game content, have already been created and implemented, a full refund may not be possible.

It will be interesting to see how many people actually bother to get a refund. I guess then we'll see how many actual anti-Epic backers there really are.

 

[Kazza]

Also:

PC Physical version

The PC Physical version will be delivered on disk. However, the disk will contain the Epic Games Store installer and not the actual game data.

That's gonna rile some people up, haha.

 

[Whitecrow]

Also:




That's gonna rile some people up, haha.

Where's the fucking common sense in the industry? This is a direct insult to consumers.

 

[cireza]

Also:
That's gonna rile some people up, haha.

Common-sense cannot be found anywhere in this world anymore.

 

[Kusanagi2086]

You seemed to have missed the most crucial part:




It will be interesting to see how many people actually bother to get a refund. I guess then we'll see how many actual anti-Epic backers there really are.

Thanks was supposed to be there but somehow was not copied into the quote I have updated it now it should be there now.

 

[Starlight Lotice]

Also:




That's gonna rile some people up, haha.

That is really cheeky of them if true.

I had hoped the physical disc would actually have the game on it instead with the launcher of your choice.

 

[Dibils2k]

looking in, i just cant help but laugh at PC gamers who cant handle using a different FREE launcher

 

[Gormless Noodle]

Guess they saw the lawsuit coming if they made a 180 on the refunds. At the very least people have options now though, so that's good.

 

[metareferential]

looking in, i just cant help but laugh at PC gamers who cant handle using a different FREE launcher

That's not the point, here, though.

When I backed I did on the their promise of a Steam key. Now I hear that I have to wait a year for that, so I'll ask for a refund and buy the game on sale once it's on Steam.

And it's not about the Epic Store, either. It's about the quality of said store. I won't give them money until they sort it out. I use Origin and other storefronts no problem.

 

[Oemenia]

I wish SonyGAF was still around, was looking forward to seeing the next No Man's Sky!

 

[Holammer]

Your mission EGS shills, should you choose to accept it, is to twist this into a positive for Epic Games.

 

[Esppiral]

Sounds like an 'hey, you used Unreal Engine and we supported you, so come to my store, or else...' to me.

Very few will get that joke/reference...only a true Shenmue fan.

 

[Senhua]

Woah look at the response of this thread remind me : "It's okay when Sony does it".

 

[Ban Puncher]

"Thank you for funding our tech demo we could shop around to real investors. Now go away."

 

[Shifty]

I hope PC backers leverage that refund policy real hard then, because that money isn't even close to deserved.

looking in, i just cant help but laugh at PC gamers who cant handle using a different FREE launcher

Yeah dw just popping in to drop the usual "i'm too ignorant to understand the point" shitpost and kick off the rabbling match that all EGS threads are destined to become.

Fucking muppetry.

 

[ethomaz]

Well they are refunding what doesn't need refund (backers)... so I think now it is all fine.

Sounds like an 'hey, you used Unreal Engine and we supported you, so come to my store, or else...' to me.

Actually there is money involved... you need to pay 5% royalties from revenue (after $3000) to use UE4 if you choose to sell the game outside EGS.... selling on EGS there is no royalties.

Plus EGS ask you only 12% cut from the revenue while Steam has a 20-30% cut depending how big your game is in sales.

 

[GreyHorace]

It was still shitty of them to break their promise to their Steam backers, but at least they are sincerely trying to make amends. Having to wait a year for a Steam release sill sucks balls though.

I don't think Yu Suzuki had any intention to screw backers out of the game. I'm guessing this was all Deep Silver's fault. This apologetic gesture strikes me as something a Japanese developer would do, rather than a American.

 

[Whitecrow]

Very few will get that joke/reference...only a true Shenmue fan.

Oh did I make a reference to Shenmue? It was just my way to summarize my thoughts

It was still shitty of them to break their promise to their Steam backers, but at least they are sincerely trying to make amends. Having to wait a year for a Steam release sill sucks balls though.

I don't think Yu Suzuki had any intention to screw backers out of the game. I'm guessing this was all Deep Silver's fault. This apologetic gesture strikes me as something a Japanese developer would do, rather than a American.

Well I wrote that post before knowing about the refunds. That's great, yep.
I'm down for games making its way to EGS and avoid that 30% cut, I was just describing how I imagined the situation given the quotes of the article.

 

[Dibils2k]

That's not the point, here, though.

When I backed I did on the their promise of a Steam key. Now I hear that I have to wait a year for that, so I'll ask for a refund and buy the game on sale once it's on Steam.

And it's not about the Epic Store, either. It's about the quality of said store. I won't give them money until they sort it out. I use Origin and other storefronts no problem.

but like how much did you want the game in the first place if something so minor is stopping you playing the game

its a single player game, so even less things to worry about regarding the launcher, its not like you have to mess around with the functions of the service

 

[DisguiseArrsick]

I had backed this for a physical PC disc and now all I get is a bloody installer? Doesn't matter if it was a steam or epic that is insulting. Might as well have backed the digital version. I'd go for the PS4 disc but I don't have a PS4. Seriously considering a refund now.

 

[GreyHorace]

Well I wrote that post before knowing about the refunds. That's great, yep.
I'm down for games making its way to EGS and avoid that 30% cut, I was just describing how I imagined the situation given the quotes of the article.

Epic Games is slowly becoming the cancer of the games industry. All because one game (Fortnite) earned them more money than God, now they feel the can bully the industry and gamers to accepting their corrupt practices.

 

[Whitecrow]

Epic Games is slowly becoming the cancer of the games industry. All because one game (Fortnite) earned them more money than God, now they feel the can bully the industry and gamers to accepting their corrupt practices.

Their practices may be not morally appealing to everyone, but Steam needs to be pulled down to the ground too. Monopolies are bad for everyone.

EGS may have pulled one initial harmful trigger, but it's possible it ends up being for the best IMHO.

 

[ethomaz]

I had backed this for a physical PC disc and now all I get is a bloody installer? Doesn't matter if it was a steam or epic that is insulting. Might as well have backed the digital version. I'd go for the PS4 disc but I don't have a PS4. Seriously considering a refund now.

Well PC Physical is a Digital Key for over a decade already... before it was a Steam Key now it a EGS Key.

You can change you option any time..

 

[Kazza]

I wonder what the last PC game to get a real physical release was? There can't have been many in the past 10 years. Seeing the kind of updates lots of console games get post-release, I'm not even sure they are worth buying physical for either, even if they do have the (unpatched) game data on the disk.

 

[Kazza]

Some interesting info on stretch goal implementation. It looks like some of the reached goals have been altered, and many of the unreached goals have actually been implemented (probably due to the extra funding from Deep Silver).

From the Kickstarter:

Story Improvements

・Shenmue III begins the day after Shenmue II leaves off. The story now includes more cinematic scenes and nostalgic flashbacks to naturally draw new players in (and fans back in) to the world of Shenmue.



Scaled Up Free Roaming Enviroment

・Initially, the Guilin area was to be organized into three areas: Bailu, Choubu (Niaowu), and Baisha, but to accommodate major additions and changes to game elements, Baisha became Fortified Castle area, and focus shifted to expanding Choubu (Niaowu). We have in effect been able to achieve a scale greater than that of Shenmue II and bring the fun of an "open world" to life. To better experience quests and events, NPCs and things to interact with in the cities have been multiplied beyond what was originally envisioned making for a more complete Shenmue experience.

Excited to hear about the expanded scope of the game (even bigger than Shenmue 2!)

 

[zeorhymer]

Also:

PC Physical version

The PC Physical version will be delivered on disk. However, the disk will contain the Epic Games Store installer and not the actual game data.


That's gonna rile some people up, haha.

So it's like how F76 was sold? It's going to be an empty case with a piece of paper with the key?

 

[JunkerWoland]

Refunds will now be available, which--in lieu of backers having the option to receive Steam keys--is a reasonable compromise. The publisher should have taken the high road from the start and offered refunds, instead of waiting to gauge fan response to the exclusivity news.

 

[ethomaz]

Refunds will now be available, which--in lieu of backers having the option to receive Steam keys--is a reasonable compromise. The publisher should have taken the high road and offered refunds from the start, instead of waiting to gauge fan response to the exclusivity news.

Well you are a Backer and not a Buyer.
If it was the second case you could ask refund any time before the game go out... even some days after the game reach your home.

Some interesting info on stretch goal implementation. It looks like some of the reached goals have been altered, and many of the unreached goals have actually been implemented (probably due to the extra funding from Deep Silver).

From the Kickstarter:




Excited to hear about the expanded scope of the game (even bigger than Shenmue 2!)

All Kickstarter are like that... it changes the goals and what they could delivery or not when the development starts.
The launched can be changed before release like it happened.

Kickstarts ask you to Backers a plan... but not all plans happens like what it was planned.... some are even better than the initial plan... other not.

Shenmue 3 case what they implemented is more and bigger than what they planned.... I hope it is better too.

 

[JunkerWoland]

Well you are a Backer and not a Buyer.
If it was the second case you could ask refund any time before the game go out... even some days after the game reach your home.

The grey space where crowd-funding projects exists, between a charity donation and a loan, should not be used to justify a company's scummy business practices. The publisher made a significant change to the campaign that backers could not have foreseen in 2015. In the absence of being able to issue Steam keys to backers, the publishers should have done the decent thing--regardless of any potential legal requirement--and offered refunds, rather than hoping their decision didn't spark fan outrage.

 

[ethomaz]

The grey space where crowd-funding projects exists, between a charity donation and a loan, should not be used to justify a company's scummy business practices. The publisher made a significant change to the campaign that backers could not have foreseen in 2015. In the absence of being able to issue Steam keys to backers, the publishers should have done the decent thing--regardless of any potential legal requirement--and offered refunds, rather than hoping their decision didn't spark fan outrage.

You backed goals of a project.

Projects changes over time.... goals changes a lot when it start to be implemented... what most devs tries is to stay most close to the planed goals but not everything can be like it was planned 4 years ago.
In Shenmue case they are delivering most goals unchanged, some changed and plus goals not archived.
They where pretty good with that.

In terms of development the kickstarter was a success... now we need to know if the game quality will live to the expectations.

 

[EightBit Man]

PC Physical version

The PC Physical version will be delivered on disk. However, the disk will contain the Epic Games Store installer and not the actual game data.

Not a fan of the Epic Game Store, and I'm not going to defend this at all. But this is nothing new, and I have had to put up with this nonsense for years before there was even an Epic Game Store. It's the reason why I don't buy physical PC games anymore and I'm only supporting GOG. And that's all thanks to Steam.

 

[GreyHorace]

Their practices may be not morally appealing to everyone, but Steam needs to be pulled down to the ground too. Monopolies are bad for everyone.

EGS may have pulled one initial harmful trigger, but it's possible it ends up being for the best IMHO.

I dislike monopolies as well and do agree Steam needs to be taken down a notch. But the way Epic Games is going about it is really anti consumer by making games exclusive to their platform.

What's sad is that developers are actually participating in this scam and it really shows how little they think of their audience. Thank god forJapanese developers and companies like CD Projekt Red. At least they put their fans first above all else.

 

[JunkerWoland]

You backed goals of a project.

Projects changes over time.... goals changes a lot when it start to be implemented... what most devs tries is to stay most close to the planed goals but not everything can be like it was planned 4 years ago.
In Shenmue case they are delivering most goals unchanged, some changed and plus goals not archived.
They where good with that.

If the last several years of crowd-funding projects have taught people anything, it should be not to assume everyone elects for the same reasons to engage with these campaigns, even more so as many essentially run themselves as overblown pre-order drives. Simply, not everyone provides support on the principal of offering capital, regardless of outcome, especially when campaigns are successfully funded and projects near completion.

In this instance, the publisher made a significant change to the campaign, and because of that and regardless of any legal requirement, should have offered refunds to PC backers, as soon as exclusivity was announced. Instead, they waited on the backer response, weathered the criticism and bad press, and are now offering refunds, after the fact.

What's arguably fact is the publisher did not have to offer refunds to backers. Whether refunds should be on offer, however, is going to be a matter of personal opinion.

 

[ReBurn]

Not a fan of the Epic Game Store, and I'm not going to defend this at all. But this is nothing new, and I have had to put up with this nonsense for years before there was even an Epic Game Store. It's the reason why I don't buy physical PC games anymore and I'm only supporting GOG. And that's all thanks to Steam.

Another reason you don't buy physical PC games any more is that they barely release physical PC games any more.

 

[kunonabi]

I really wanted that character perspective system. I'd much rather have had that than all the other stuff they added.

 

[Fuz]

Also:




That's gonna rile some people up, haha.

Yeah, that's fucking bullshit.

 

[Orta]

The game will probably be a pile of shit anyway.

 

[bltn]

Nice, looking forward to refunding it.

 

[JayCeeJim]

I'm glad they are offering refunds, for all those people who are claiming for it.

But I personally won't take the offer, because when I picked the "PC version" option, back in 2015, I pondered whether that vague wording could mean it wouldn't come through Steam (since it was a risky project and maybe they couldn't afford it). And knowing that risk (which was a risk, because obviously being a Steam game is more convenient for me), I backed it anyway because I wanted the game to be made.

A couple years later, when I had already backed and they officially announced it was going to be a Steam game of course I was glad. And then I was mildly disappointed when they turned EGS exclusive. But I don't think that entitles me to a refund, honestly.

 

[JayCeeJim]

Another reason you don't buy physical PC games any more is that they barely release physical PC games any more.

In my case, I removed all the optical drives from all PCs at my reach . I even prefer an empty space on the case than a noisy and power-consuming drive I didn't use for half a decade :-D

But it's a personal taste, of course...

 

[Stuart360]

looking in, i just cant help but laugh at PC gamers who cant handle using a different FREE launcher

Dude for the 10,000th time, will you and other EPIC apolagists at least try and do a tiny bit of research into why people are against EPIC. Having to use another launcher is just one of many reasons, and one of the less important reasons.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

The real question is: how many PC players even backed this project?

All this fuss over a minority crowd. Theres no way someone that was a passionate fan of the original two on DC, somehow now is a full time PC gamer. Console players backed this and you know it. This is just bait news to get riled over nothing. Seriously, who even wanted a PC version rather than a console ver of Shenmue 3.

If they announced how Linux version was cancelled im sure it would be all over the news even though like 3 people were backers for that version.

 

[Kazza]

I really wanted that character perspective system. I'd much rather have had that than all the other stuff they added.

I think of Shenmue as Ryo's journey, so I was never keen on playing as other characters anyway (unless I'm completely misunderstanding what the character perspective system was supposed to be). I'm just happy that it's going to be a full Shenmue game. Even in the months after the kickstarter, I expected a really cut down experience, more akin to a Telltale game.

A couple years later, when I had already backed and they officially announced it was going to be a Steam game of course I was glad. And then when they turned EGS exclusive. But I don't think that entitles me to a refund, honestly.

So many things on the internet are extremes of love and hate, it's rare to just see a reaction as nuanced as "mildly disappointed"

I wonder how many people wanting refunds were those who got swept up in the E3 hype, regretted backing it, and now have a good excuse for a refund? In terms of how the kickstarter has gone, I think it's on par with Bloodstained in terms of how smooth/bumpy a ride it's been. That game had a change in platforms, with Wii U and Vita being cancelled altogether in favour of Switch, which is a much worse situation considering that it is a complete change of hardware. Although Shenmue's own unique take on open world adventures won't be as popular as a metroidvania, I hope they take lessons from how Bloodstained handle the criticism and ended up releasing a quality product (well, apart from the Switch port in its current state)

 

[VertigoOA]

What’s SEGA’s actual involvement in this?

 

[RokkanStoned]

All this fuss over a minority crowd. Theres no way someone that was a passionate fan of the original two on DC, somehow now is a full time PC gamer. Console players backed this and you know it. This is just bait news to get riled over nothing. Seriously, who even wanted a PC version rather than a console ver of Shenmue 3.

What's the logic here?
I was a console gamer foremost when I was younger, but nowadays I've chosen to buy most of my games on PC if they were available. I imagine a lot of people when they grew up got more access to a PC, as well as an interest in using a PC and slowly moved over to being PC gamers. More so during the MMORPG craze of 2000-2010. I don't see how being a fan of the original two games on DC, somehow must mean you might not have moved over to PC gaming and that you are married to the idea of being a console gamer that plays all games on console.

 

[VertigoOA]

The Dreamcast demographic evaporated into dust. It’s been what? 20 years almost? Where the small amount of fans went doesn’t mean much aside from them being the suckers that funded development.

Shenmue 3 has to be a standalone experience. It’s not a strong ip by any means. What did the rereleases sell? 50k?

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Oh, so they are doing refunds? Cool, I'm out.

Thought there was going to be a DRM-free version, at least on disc... but there isn't, so fuck 'em.

 

[Enjay]

Oh, so they are doing refunds? Cool, I'm out.

Thought there was going to be a DRM-free version, at least on disc... but there isn't, so fuck 'em.

Stay on it then, you know they're gonna downplay and hide the info about getting a refund as hard as they could.