Yep, that's the point.
Japan prefers handhelds, the West prefers gaming on a television. The Switch lets them develop games without worrying about these differences.
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Yuzo Koshiro on Switch during interview: "Why does this thing even exist, really"
- Thread starter Oregano
- Start date
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Yep, that's the point.
Japan prefers handhelds, the West prefers gaming on a television. The Switch lets them develop games without worrying about these differences.
No, you're not keeping your expectations in check. You are not listening to what the people, the company and the spokesperson are saying and lying to yourself.
So demand is going to fall off a cliff in a way no hardware ever has?(including the Wii)
Okay sure.
EDIT:
Iwata even said as much about two/three years ago.
mindatlarge
Member
Indeed. As time passes, as the system continues to hopefully shine, impress and deliver, I think the majority of perspectives will shift from "well, is it a portable, well is it a console, why does this thing even exist?" to "how did this thing, this new way to play and enjoy games, never exist?"
CharminUltra
Member
Sometimes I think the same about the planet Earth in general.
I KEED
I KEED
TheSkullPrince
Member
He does raise some interesting points, but suffice it to say, I for one, am glad the Switch exists.
On topic:
Many are waiting for a revision of Switch, including me. The Crowbcat video was harsh
The Crowbcat video is also as always only representative of a very small amount of units and not the console in general. Nothing is pointing to Switch having a higher failure rate than any other consoles before it.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
One of the many hardcore Nintendo fans is going to murder him with an Zelda Amibo, isn't he xD
On topic:
Many are waiting for a revision of Switch, including me. The Crowbcat video was harsh
That video quickly became the most-viewed video on his channel. I wonder what kind of damage that caused.
Didn't Iwata describe the NX as sort of a comprehensive Nintendo platform back in the day? I didn't know this whole "is switch replacing the 3DS" thing was even a question. I mean, I knew people around here would ask that from time to time but, like those still trying to argue that the Pokemon announcement wasn't for a mainline RPG, I assumed they're either trolling or have been living under a rock.
Also, I can't wrap my head around how you could say 3DS is portable but Switch is not? Battery sucks? Advertised battery life is pretty damn similar between the two. Plus, the Switch doesn't have a proprietary charging port. Switch can't fit in a pocket? I think pretty much 95% of the human population would be uncomfortable carrying a 3DS around in their clothes.
The value proposition of the Switch seems pretty dang obvious to me. It's a system you can play anywhere that quickly and easily connects to your television and has enough juice in it to run games that look good on an HDTV. It's pretty cut and dry unless you are unnecessarily obsessed with assigning a label to it that would fit any mainstream gaming hardware that came before it.
Also, I can't wrap my head around how you could say 3DS is portable but Switch is not? Battery sucks? Advertised battery life is pretty damn similar between the two. Plus, the Switch doesn't have a proprietary charging port. Switch can't fit in a pocket? I think pretty much 95% of the human population would be uncomfortable carrying a 3DS around in their clothes.
The value proposition of the Switch seems pretty dang obvious to me. It's a system you can play anywhere that quickly and easily connects to your television and has enough juice in it to run games that look good on an HDTV. It's pretty cut and dry unless you are unnecessarily obsessed with assigning a label to it that would fit any mainstream gaming hardware that came before it.
Honestly this argument of mass market pricing needs to be supported by evidence. Cause rn the only fact that we know is that current prices seem to be acceptable for mejority of consumers. Ppl also need to remember that massmarket pricing differes from product to product and in most cases doesn't exist at all due to lack of demand. I.e. lowering the prices may not increase current demand enough 2 even be considered a mass market price.
From a Japanese perspective I can understand his comments.
The Switch, compared to 3DS, is a bit more bulky and less portable in that regard. the real interesting comment however is how he emphasizes that the Switch doesn't have a real hook, something to make it really different. Funny how different views work. Guess he would rather have Nintendo adding a revolutionary way of playing games like adding touchscreen or 3D free glasses.
The Switch, compared to 3DS, is a bit more bulky and less portable in that regard. the real interesting comment however is how he emphasizes that the Switch doesn't have a real hook, something to make it really different. Funny how different views work. Guess he would rather have Nintendo adding a revolutionary way of playing games like adding touchscreen or 3D free glasses.
It strikes me as even odder from a Japanese perspective when it's looking like Switch is going to be a juggernaut and Splatoon 2 is looking to explode in popularity. Surely it's doing something right for Japan?
Why does the thing ever exist? Nintendo needed cool and attractive hardware out asap, to erase the WiiU's from people's heads and rebuy their confidence, and they succeeded (at least for now). It is obvious it will be their main unified console once the 3ds is done with: less costs, faster development, more games, more revenue, but as many posters already pointed out they will never come out and say the 3ds is dead until it's dead, because it will not make sense until that moment
There's a reason the Japanese devs lost so much ground the last two gens. Slow to adapt, too sentimental, and too much emphasis on seniority.
That's perhaps the most concerning thing. He fundamentally doesn't understand the appeal of what is looking like Japan's next big hit. If that's at all common for Japanese developers it explains an awful lot and says not very good things about the future of the market.
You really believe that video represents what the console is?One of the many hardcore Nintendo fans is going to murder him with an Zelda Amibo, isn't he xD
On topic:
Many are waiting for a revision of Switch, including me. The Crowbcat video was harsh
Even at best, Crowbcat knew this was more of a launch issue than demonstrative of serious Switch hardware issues, as seen in the title "Nintendo Switch painful launch" and the video description:
Crowbcat videos almost always focus on the negative aspects of games/hardware, because failure is more entertaining to people than balanced or positive videos, so I'm sure if you believe the Switch video, you were convinced to avoid the PS4 or the PS4 Pro or the Xbox One.
clarknova156
Member
In the age of 13 inch iPads , 17 inch laptops and the fact that virtually everyone has a backpack they use on a daily basis and the Switch is somehow the breaking point for bringing it on the go? How does that make any sense?
Also the 3DS was never able to just fit in my pocket so I'm not really sure where the thought process is there. The Switch is vastly more powerful than the 3DS and functions as a home console , it is the successor to the 3DS plain and simple but Nintendo would have to be just willfully ignorant to ignore the 3DS install base and stop making games for it. It's one of the largest install bases period and making games for the foreseeable future for it makes complete sense while the Switch install base grows and gets more games on it. It just came out a few months ago , people expect it to have generationally defining games by the load this soon?
I think he is wrong and fails to see the Switch's place. Obviously this isn't a rare conclusion as it's selling like crazy and people love it. The only real complaint is that people want Nintendo to put out more games on it and they are but like any freshly launched console it'll take time to build up a library of great games. It also had one of the best launch titles even one of the best games I've ever played come with it.
People seem perplexed by what it's suppose to be when I think it's pretty obvious and frankly a brilliant move by Nintendo considering the failure the Wii U is (I loved it but it many flaws and was poorly designed for the marketplace).
Also the 3DS was never able to just fit in my pocket so I'm not really sure where the thought process is there. The Switch is vastly more powerful than the 3DS and functions as a home console , it is the successor to the 3DS plain and simple but Nintendo would have to be just willfully ignorant to ignore the 3DS install base and stop making games for it. It's one of the largest install bases period and making games for the foreseeable future for it makes complete sense while the Switch install base grows and gets more games on it. It just came out a few months ago , people expect it to have generationally defining games by the load this soon?
I think he is wrong and fails to see the Switch's place. Obviously this isn't a rare conclusion as it's selling like crazy and people love it. The only real complaint is that people want Nintendo to put out more games on it and they are but like any freshly launched console it'll take time to build up a library of great games. It also had one of the best launch titles even one of the best games I've ever played come with it.
People seem perplexed by what it's suppose to be when I think it's pretty obvious and frankly a brilliant move by Nintendo considering the failure the Wii U is (I loved it but it many flaws and was poorly designed for the marketplace).
Considering there has been positive response from Japanese devs since it was revealed, I'm not sure why people would assume one person not seeing the point of the Switch as representative of a common opinion.
I fit 3DS XL in my jeans just fine
Schnozberry
Member
Koshiro seems to be coming at it from a rather solipsistic point of view. Novelty isn't always defined by something never before seen. It can also be something familiar offered in a way that wasn't possible before.
In that sense, offering both handheld and console quality games from the same device is the gimmick. The part where Koshiro seems to get stuck is that he personally doesn't find a lot of use for it. That's fair, but there seems to be a lot of people that do, and if I were a game maker I wouldn't be rushing to dismiss something that could offer a worthwile avenue to make some money.
In that sense, offering both handheld and console quality games from the same device is the gimmick. The part where Koshiro seems to get stuck is that he personally doesn't find a lot of use for it. That's fair, but there seems to be a lot of people that do, and if I were a game maker I wouldn't be rushing to dismiss something that could offer a worthwile avenue to make some money.
Considering I still bough 2 Switch consoles (no problems so far) and still don't see them on store shelves, I would guess that video had hardly any impact. I only have my anecdotal experience, but I believe the majority of consoles and Joy Cons were unaffected.
Either way, I'm glad there are channels like Crowbcat to keep the pressure on when a problem is widespread.
I think his take on the Switch is interesting, but the most interesting part of the interview is clearly Koshiro saying he'd love to work on Zelda.
I think it's time Nintendo made a new 2D Zelda and hired Koshiro to score it, because now I need that in my life and I'd throw money at them for it. And I'm not even the biggest 2D Zelda fan!
I think it's time Nintendo made a new 2D Zelda and hired Koshiro to score it, because now I need that in my life and I'd throw money at them for it. And I'm not even the biggest 2D Zelda fan!
The odd thing about Nintendo and its systems is that developers nearly always have nice stuff to say about them. Even Koshiro later in that article states that he really likes Nintendo titles and would love the opportunity to collaborate. But that translating into actual support for the system and concern for a dieing market seems to be an oxymoron.
sixteen-bit
Member
i wonder if this means we shouldn't expect Ancient games or Protect Me knight sequel on this system
7DollarHagane
Banned
Switch mini with built in joycons and compatible with the standard dock but it's not included. $199. Do it.
Zen_Arcade
Banned
Are tablets not popular in Japan? He's talking as if something the size of the Switch isn't a reasonable thing to take with you.
Yeah what's notable about those interviews now is how many of those developers aren't developing games for Switch(including Capcom's Tsujimoto lol).
I felt similar to Koshiro... until I bought one. Then everything changed, and it made me realize this was the thing I wanted before I even knew I wanted it. As a portable, going back to my 3DS feels like a multi-generational downgrade, making it kind of difficult to tolerate, which feels weird to say since visuals aren't at the top of my list of important things, particularly for handhelds. Since I carry all of my devices in a case of some kind, the whole "fit it in your pocket" thing doesn't apply to me either. That's important to me for my phone and keys... not a gaming device or tablet. But yeah, I don't agree that the Switch's existence makes no sense. At all.
James Scott
Banned
Crowbat is good at getting a bunch of videos to make things look worse than they are. I was hesitant to buy a PS4 pro after his video on that but it's been perfectly fine for me on both.One of the many hardcore Nintendo fans is going to murder him with an Zelda Amibo, isn't he xD
On topic:
Many are waiting for a revision of Switch, including me. The Crowbcat video was harsh
I'd imagine it caused a lot of damage but the thing is still selling out and the video itself is fairly old so who knows
Shpeshal Nick
aka Collingwood
Honestly, back when I first predicted the NX being a hybrid, I assumed it would replace both the WiiU AND 3DS.
I'm actually wondering why the 3DS still exists if anything. But yeah, I'd expect revisions of the Switch.
I'm actually wondering why the 3DS still exists if anything. But yeah, I'd expect revisions of the Switch.
As a Switch owner I agree with these points. I will say though that my Switch's strongpoint has been having 2-player capabilities automatically wherever I go. I don't have to rely on others bringing their 3DS if I bring mine over for us to play together. And then all i have to do for 4 player action is bring two more tiny joycons. I think thats a value prop.
Plus its the only way I can access Nintendo IP, which deserves a lot of credit. I think its multiplayer capabilities, versatility, portability, and Nintendo IP are enough to ensure its success. Whatever comes after Switch tho is really gonna have to push the envelope.
I like the idea of a Switch 2 that retains a similar form factor but is powerful enough to be a competent VR powerhouse to get VR into more peoples hands. A big downside to VR right now I think is that its an accessory you have to hook up to a huge box to power it. If I could slide a switch-like console into a visor and have that just be it, paired with Zelda/Metroid/what have you, with all the offerings of the switch, that would finally shift me into the VR market.
And yes I know Samsung already does this with their phones. I'm also sure their phones are powerful enough to run a game like Breath of the Wild too, but no one's flocking towards the Galaxy 8 for a profound gaming experience and I don't think I need to go into detail why.
It's pretty simple. The 3DS still has 60m+ units out there and, IIRC, it was still one of the highest growing consoles in 2016. They're gonna throw a few outsourced projects (Metroid, Pikmin) and a final Pokemon version its way, no point in abandoning it entirely.
With 15 employees they are essentially an indie dev. Maybe one of them gets a Switch and suggests a port for the eShop.
The best selling 3DS, LL (XL outside of Japan), even has a comparable size.
Cheaper and readily available = better fit for the younger audience.
It's pretty simple. The 3DS still has 60m+ units out there and, IIRC, it was still one of the highest growing consoles in 2016. They're gonna throw a few outsourced projects (Metroid, Pikmin), a hardware revision and a final Pokemon version its way, no point in abandoning it entirely.
The upcoming 3DS games are Nintendo leftover projects, which started before Switch being a thing, third party games and Atlus games (they are... their own thing).
BlackBanditSho
Member
I still don't understand the confusion about Switch and 3DS. Nintendo has been crystal clear in their messaging. The Switch is not a replacement for t he 3DS and will not sunset the 3DS.
The Switch is a home console that can be portable.
The 3DS is a portable console.
The difference might seem small, but it isn't.
a. There's an entire eco-system built around the portability of the 3DS that is likely not coming to switch. From street passes to the mini collect-a-thon games that Nintendo fosters on the 3DS, it's made to be small, cheap, on the move, and filled with games marketed towards a very specific demographic that values those qualities. These are usually teenage and younger if i were to guess.
b. The switch is built to be the full console experience that isn't locked to your home television. Play it there, finish it elsewhere at your leisure. While it *CAN* play the types of games you normally find on 3DS (should they get released on SWITCH), the Switch is Nintendo's 'Premium' high end device. Start your game at home, finish it on the plane or the hotel room of your business trip. The games skew a little older so pass the controllers to your child or wife for light-hearted co-op or competitive party play.
Realistically, you're playing your 3DS games for hours, stuffing it in your pocket or backpack, and scurrying off to school for you pokemon or other such adventures.
Conversely, you're playign your Switch between moments or as a group experience.
Why would Nintendo kill the 3DS? I'd still give my nieces and nephews 3DS and 2DS devices today. Switch? NO WAY. they're not breaking that....
I don't get the confusion at all.
-EDIT - I'd even say that they're two different audiences that have *some* crossover. An invested 3DS owner may want a Switch, but a Switch owner might not want a 3DS. This has nothing to do with the games looking better on the switch as much as it's about two totally different experiences offered by hardware that serves two different purposes.
The Switch is a home console that can be portable.
The 3DS is a portable console.
The difference might seem small, but it isn't.
a. There's an entire eco-system built around the portability of the 3DS that is likely not coming to switch. From street passes to the mini collect-a-thon games that Nintendo fosters on the 3DS, it's made to be small, cheap, on the move, and filled with games marketed towards a very specific demographic that values those qualities. These are usually teenage and younger if i were to guess.
b. The switch is built to be the full console experience that isn't locked to your home television. Play it there, finish it elsewhere at your leisure. While it *CAN* play the types of games you normally find on 3DS (should they get released on SWITCH), the Switch is Nintendo's 'Premium' high end device. Start your game at home, finish it on the plane or the hotel room of your business trip. The games skew a little older so pass the controllers to your child or wife for light-hearted co-op or competitive party play.
Realistically, you're playing your 3DS games for hours, stuffing it in your pocket or backpack, and scurrying off to school for you pokemon or other such adventures.
Conversely, you're playign your Switch between moments or as a group experience.
Why would Nintendo kill the 3DS? I'd still give my nieces and nephews 3DS and 2DS devices today. Switch? NO WAY. they're not breaking that....
I don't get the confusion at all.
-EDIT - I'd even say that they're two different audiences that have *some* crossover. An invested 3DS owner may want a Switch, but a Switch owner might not want a 3DS. This has nothing to do with the games looking better on the switch as much as it's about two totally different experiences offered by hardware that serves two different purposes.
James Scott
Banned
Nah, the 3DS doesn't have another 2 years in it or anything. Basically nothing announced is made internally by Nintendo. Even GameFreak has Ultra but are working on the Switch game.
They say it's not a portable replacement but that's mostly because they desperately needed a Wii U replacement while the 3DS was selling fine enough it's not because of some philosophy of "this is a home console you can take on the go"
I definitely agree with him as far as making it lighter. I got a Switch a couple weeks ago. It was the first time I had ever seen or held one. I was surprised how heavy it was. It's heavier than a 1000 series Vita. I think I'm getting carpal tunnel in both hands. The weight of the system and the fact that it's completely flat on the back side with no good place to grip it makes it really hard to hold for me. After about five minutes, my hands and wrists start hurting and going numb.
Graphics Horse
Member
Yeah I have gone backwards and forwards over how I feel about this, but the home console messaging is pretty widespread.
Nintendo's own expectations for the system seem very reserved, saying they had to raise their internal forecast to 10m, what was it before? Whatever it is or a lower forecast than either the ones for Wii U or 3DS first year. Does this seem like healthy expectation for the ultimate single platform machine?, were they banking on it bursting into life by year 2-3?
Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment.
Were you around for the DS? They said it would be a third pillar and wouldn't replace the GBA, but the moment it got successful they dropped the GBA. You can see that happening now. The Pokemon company is moving on to the switch after Ultra. They announced zero first party games for the 3DS. Their output will be focused on the switch now. Third parties will continue to support the 3ds for a while because it's big in Japan, but that's only a matter of time, and Japan has a history of supporting handhelds way past their death.
DongBeetle
Banned
I'm pretty sure what we're seeing are stragglers from when Nintendo didn't know the Switch's ridiculous selling power
He has a point about the price, the moment Nintendo can introduce as "Switch Portable", that comes without a dock and just connects via cable that splits into HDMI and USB.. for like 199, that is when this thing will SLAUGHTER the PS4 and Xbox one. As then parents will get it for their kids as a toy. They just need to start cutting costs, let's hope they can so that we can get some glorious competition in this generation. .
.Nintendo pretty much has released all relevant IPs on 3DS - there isnt much reason to continue supporting it with new games when most of their back catalog evergreen titles keep selling. If a person buys a 3DS in 2017 they will still pick up games like MK7, ALB oder Fire Emblem Awakening that were released years ago. The Switch cant play 3DS games, thats a big difference compared to the GBA/DS situation. Switch is also much more expensive than the cheapest 2DS/3DS version.
Even with intern first party development slowing down on 3DS, business wise there is no reason to kill the 3DS anytime soon. The markets, target group and prices are different enough to keep both going for now. Once Switch enter the 3DS price are and Nintendo releases a new Switch revision....then we will see the 3DS being pushed out.
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