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[mattiewheels]

Man, there's only three people working at Nimblebit? THREE people made Tiny Tower? No wonder updates take a while.

 

[Jonnyram]

Man, there's only three people working at Nimblebit? THREE people made Tiny Tower? No wonder updates take a while.

Are they still updating Pocket Frogs too?

 

[JaseMath]

Christ, I hate Zynga.

 

[Tallshortman]

I'm so glad that company is headed for the gutter. The social gaming bubble is slowly bursting and Zynga's stock tells the story.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Zynga and Ripoff fit perfectly together

 

[bluedeviltron]

They're both gross, exploitative pieces of software. Who gives a fuck?

 

[Sqorgar]

Ummmmmm, no, they don't. That's why IP-protection laws and copyright laws are in place in, I don't know, every civilized country on this planet? So that other companies cannot go out and STEAL your stuff?

Actually, copyright laws do not apply to gameplay. It applies to the passive stuff - the graphics, the sounds, the text, even the code - but not the interactive stuff. I guess it is possible that you can patent gameplay rules, but I don't think anybody has successfully done it or even defended it. I know Atari went after some clones of Asteroids a few years back, but I don't think that ever made it in front of a judge.

And I think this is a good thing. There has to be a line at which something is TOO similar, and I'm not sure there is a way to define that line with gameplay. If you add the Minecraft crafting system to Pacman, is that too similar to Pacman? Or Minecraft? How close is too close?

And is there a point where that line would defined that would make you uncomfortable? Have you see what is going on with software patents? Do we want that bogging down games too?

I'm not defending Zynga. I piss on Zynga. I've had people take ideas from me and create 3DS games. I do not condone this practice at all, under any circumstance, but I disagree with it on a moral level, not a legal one.

Zynga are assholes, but truly, is this news to anybody?

 

[sykoex]

I don't get it, doesn't Tiny Tower lift its key concepts, waiting hours for some resource and paying extra to speed things up, straight from Zynga's games?

 

[Of All Trades]

That's silly, no they shouldn't. That should be done outside the App store. Do we even know if TT has a copyright on it? If so, what specifically for?

Assuming Zynga is breaking the law then Apple is directly profiting from an illegal activity. This isn't a grey area thing, either, it's pretty clearly laid out in law. Youtube has specific good faith policies in place to (somewhat) attempt to prevent copyright infringement from happening, and that's with a nearly completely unmonitored content submission process.

The excuse of "that's so hard for Apple they have so much to review" is just meaningless horseshit, particularly for a company that has, what, $100 billion? The more control you exert on your platform the more responsible you are for what goes on inside.

 

[vareon]

They're both gross, exploitative pieces of software. Who gives a fuck?

Have you played Tiny Towers or are you basing this on the fact that Tiny Towers is "free"?

 

[Haunted]

I'm not defending Zynga. I piss on Zynga. I've had people take ideas from me and create 3DS games. I do not condone this practice at all, under any circumstance, but I disagree with it on a moral level, not a legal one.

Zynga are assholes, but truly, is this news to anybody?

It's good to remind people of that fact every time shit like this pops up. Gamers have a notoriously short memory.

 

[Deleted member 20920]

I don't get it, doesn't Tiny Tower lift its key concepts, waiting hours for some resource and paying extra to speed things up, straight from Zynga's games?

I don't think using the same business plan can be said to be lifting.

The problem with this game, it seems, is that the only changes made are cosmetic.

It won't be a problem if they used the same tower concept but change things. Like expanding on the concept (either with more types of things to built or maybe 2 rooms per floor) or shift the premise entirely (eg: have a school instead of a multi purpose tower and use classes of students rather than individual bitizens or whatever they're called in this game).

 

[senador]

What's the point in bringing up the size of the original developers? Would it have been fine if Zynga ganked the concept from a company bigger than their own?

Why put emphasis on the fact that it's an indie dev team of 3? Would you take less issue with this if Zynga was copying EA or Activision? I find such an idea kind of offensive.

A team of 3 is doing it out of passion. They are spending many days and nights on these things trying to catch a break. Then big boy corporation with deep pockets comes along and plucks the idea without any of their own creative work really. I'm OK with taking each others ideas, but this is a damn blatant copy, something they did after Nimblebit wouldn't be bought by them. I don't see how people can defend it. Have you not ever created something on your own that you were proud of? Usually things like this take far more hours, learning, blood/sweat/tears, experimenting, etc than a huge company might have to do. Its also very risky since you only have you to back yourself. Would you be OK if someone just came along and copied it? I'm sure you'd be flattered, but it'd also sting quite a bit.

Actually, copyright laws do not apply to gameplay. It applies to the passive stuff - the graphics, the sounds, the text, even the code - but not the interactive stuff. I guess it is possible that you can patent gameplay rules, but I don't think anybody has successfully done it or even defended it. I know Atari went after some clones of Asteroids a few years back, but I don't think that ever made it in front of a judge.

And I think this is a good thing. There has to be a line at which something is TOO similar, and I'm not sure there is a way to define that line with gameplay. If you add the Minecraft crafting system to Pacman, is that too similar to Pacman? Or Minecraft? How close is too close?

And is there a point where that line would defined that would make you uncomfortable? Have you see what is going on with software patents? Do we want that bogging down games too?

I'm not defending Zynga. I piss on Zynga. I've had people take ideas from me and create 3DS games. I do not condone this practice at all, under any circumstance, but I disagree with it on a moral level, not a legal one.

Zynga are assholes, but truly, is this news to anybody?

Same on the bolded. Its just shitty fucking thing to do.

Assuming Zynga is breaking the law then Apple is directly profiting from an illegal activity. This isn't a grey area thing, either, it's pretty clearly laid out in law. Youtube has specific good faith policies in place to (somewhat) attempt to prevent copyright infringement from happening, and that's with a nearly completely unmonitored content submission process.

They are subject to DCMA take downs just like YouTube is but it is NOT there job to police these things and dig into every little copyright issue and such. Again though, we don't even know that Tiny Tower has copyrights or patents and if they do what specifically would they be for? I don't think Zynga has done anything illegal, its just a shitty ass cheap shot that I'm not OK with and is all around pretty shady, I mean look at those screens again.
The excuse of "that's so hard for Apple they have so much to review" is just meaningless horseshit, particularly for a company that has, what, $100 billion? The more control you exert on your platform the more responsible you are for what goes on inside.

Nimblebit handled this awesomely. Plus they made game of the year, have their name out there, have a stable game now, and have over 1 million players a day. I think they'll do alright, but this still pisses me off. Zynga are pieces of shit.

 

[Dynamite Shikoku]

lold @ 'I piss on Zynga'

edit: also lol @ the typo they made

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Tiny Tower is an awesomely addictive (and free) game. Fuck Zynga!

 

[platypotamus]

Fuck yeah Marshes, way to turn down the buy out.

 

[JJD]

Someone tweets (I'm not on twitter) to those Nimblebit guys that Zynga sued brazilian iOS developer Vostu for copying Cityville. The guys had to settle because they couldn't afford litigation with a huge company like Zynga. I hope they're seeking legal advice against those assholes.

 

[whalleywhat]

Don't act like Tiny Tower doesn't function on the same psychological manipulation that Zynga's garbage already did. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

 

[Bomber Bob]

Don't act like Tiny Tower doesn't function on the same psychological manipulation that Zynga's garbage already did.

I didn't drop a dime on Tiny Tower nor spammed to death my friends on fb

 

[vareon]

Actually, copyright laws do not apply to gameplay. It applies to the passive stuff - the graphics, the sounds, the text, even the code - but not the interactive stuff. I guess it is possible that you can patent gameplay rules, but I don't think anybody has successfully done it or even defended it. I know Atari went after some clones of Asteroids a few years back, but I don't think that ever made it in front of a judge.

And I think this is a good thing. There has to be a line at which something is TOO similar, and I'm not sure there is a way to define that line with gameplay. If you add the Minecraft crafting system to Pacman, is that too similar to Pacman? Or Minecraft? How close is too close?

And is there a point where that line would defined that would make you uncomfortable? Have you see what is going on with software patents? Do we want that bogging down games too?

I'm not defending Zynga. I piss on Zynga. I've had people take ideas from me and create 3DS games. I do not condone this practice at all, under any circumstance, but I disagree with it on a moral level, not a legal one.

Zynga are assholes, but truly, is this news to anybody?

Wait you're the squidi guy? Your blog inspired me and my team to do the same (try to create mechanics and put them into a catalogue). Many thanks!

Don't act like Tiny Tower doesn't function on the same psychological manipulation that Zynga's garbage already did. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

The difference is Zynga halts your progress by either requiring you to either "ask a friend to help" or pay. There is no such thing in Tiny Tower.

 

[∀ Narayan]

So, I haven't kept up with this issue, but how exactly is Zynga able to get away with this?

 

[Divvy]

So, I haven't kept up with this issue, but how exactly is Zynga able to get away with this?

The appstore is like 90% rippoffs of something else. There are a billion angry bird clones, which in itself is a ripoff of older flash games. What can anyone do about it?

 

[Bollocks]

Never heard of that game but if I had to choose, I would choose Zynga's game, looks 10x better and therefore more fun.

 

[whalleywhat]

I didn't drop a dime on Tiny Tower nor spammed to death my friends on fb

The difference is Zynga halts your progress by either requiring you to either "ask a friend to help" or pay. There is no such thing in Tiny Tower.

These are minor differences imo, and mostly have to do with the lack of FB functionality. The core of the game is still a massive time sink, and not buying coins just means you're wasting more time. But it's got some nice pixel art, sooooo...

 

[Pezking]

"Dream Heights" looks horrible.

What an awful art design.
No charm whatsoever, and extremely unclear.

I like Nimblebit's public reaction to this. Call those fuckers out.

 

[linko9]

Wow, I'm really surprised at all the people saying the Zynga game looks better... look much, much worse to me, I really like the look of Tiny Tower (never played either, just judging from the shots in the OP).

 

[Majine]

That's gotta ztyng.

 

[Zizbuka]

But the appstore has 10 gazillion apps, right.......................

 

[vareon]

These are minor differences imo, and mostly have to do with the lack of FB functionality. The core of the game is still a massive time sink, and not buying coins just means you're wasting more time. But it's got some nice pixel art, sooooo...

There are many ways to implement social features without using FB functionality.

Have you played Zynga's games and this? Every mechanic in Zynga's games are designed to a) make the game viral by keep asking you to add friends or b) monetize. Meanwhile in TT:

- You do not need friends to complete a tower (in most of Zynga's games, you need friends to do even the simplest of tasks)
- There is no floor you can't get just because you don't pay.
- By design, the more you get into the game the easier it takes to get coins.

I agree it is a massive time sink, but what does it matter if people enjoyed it? Does that mean every free to play game has the same core as that of Zynga's?

If you're in the "free-to-play" destroyed gaming camp, Tiny Towers is a wrong example. Zynga and Gameloft are the worst offenders.

 

[echoshifting]

How can people say the zynga clone looks better? Looks like generic tripe to me.

Anyway, nimblebit doesn't really have a leg to stand on here. Business as usual on the app store and many of their mechanics are themselves iterations of mechanics from other games. Why bitch about it? Just make tiny tower more badass, it has way more style as it is. Give us what Zyndon't.

 

[Tiktaalik]

Games companies are constantly ripping each other off to varying degrees (see Fighters History vs Street Fighter, Zuma vs Puzzloop) and as someone wrote before it's a moral issue more than anything. Sometimes a "copier" is original in their own way and that takes the edge off the issue. I think what is really irking many here most of all is that in this case it's a large corporation vs a small startup instead of what we see more often, which is close competition between established game developers.

 

[chickdigger802]

The funniest thing is I'm pretty sure this game was a long way in the development cycle before Tiny Tower won GOTY.

I bet they probably were thinking... "This idea is cool and probably small time. Let's take it and make money off it!".


And my god... the art! The floors look ok, but man, those 'people'.

Has anyone checked this out yet? don't see a thread on TA... There's got to be some unique gameplay aspect... right?

 

[danmaku]

Why put emphasis on the fact that it's an indie dev team of 3? Would you take less issue with this if Zynga was copying EA or Activision? I find such an idea kind of offensive.

Gameloft usually rips off big companies (Epic, Blizzard, Capcom...) and they are treated as shameless bastards as well. The fact that Zynga is bullying a small company that obviously can't do anything against them just adds insult to injury.

 

[whalleywhat]

There are many ways to implement social features without using FB functionality.

Have you played Zynga's games and this? Every mechanic in Zynga's games are designed to a) make the game viral by keep asking you to add friends or b) monetize. Meanwhile in TT:

- You do not need friends to complete a tower (in most of Zynga's games, you need friends to do even the simplest of tasks)
- There is no floor you can't get just because you don't pay.
- By design, the more you get into the game the easier it takes to get coins.

I agree it is a massive time sink, but what does it matter if people enjoyed it? Does that mean every free to play game has the same core as that of Zynga's?

If you're in the "free-to-play" destroyed gaming camp, Tiny Towers is a wrong example. Zynga and Gameloft are the worst offenders.

The things I would say are core and similar (and no, I haven't played any Zynga game other than Drop7, but I've read and heard a fair amount about them) is the way Tiny Tower treats player time e.g. constantly checking back in to make sure your stores are stocked. If you want to get ahead, you have to grind out the elevator over a long period of time, which is one of the more blatant Skinner Boxes around. Or you can buy in-game money with real money. They seem quite similar to the mechanics described here and here. The hooks to get you to pay aren't as aggressive as Zynga's, but I don't think we should be congratulating Nimblebit for being a kinder, gentler Zynga, or rallying behind them as victims when Zynga takes notice of its spawn and does what Zynga does.

 

[Bomber Bob]

★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★
Rate Dream Heights 5 stars in the App Store, so we can continue making exciting features and floors for you!
★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★ ★

lol zynga, unfortunately your shitty game is not available in the japanese app store. I'd download only to give you 1 star

 

[Polk]

Thank you Zynga for convining me to try Tiny Tower.

 

[Soule]

Well time to try out Tiny Tower, if I like it I'll be sure to support these guys

 

[Riposte]

Except Zynga's game looks like dog crap in art direction.
Why do most American kid arts have to look like Bratz?

http://www.bratz--games.com/bratz3.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]

Because they haven't come to love the beauty of Japanese art design

 

[Stumpokapow]

These are minor differences imo, and mostly have to do with the lack of FB functionality. The core of the game is still a massive time sink, and not buying coins just means you're wasting more time. But it's got some nice pixel art, sooooo...

Okay, but a game being a time sink is not a problem. With Tiny Tower, you can't buy your way out of the time sink. After the first week or so, IAP is useless.

is the way Tiny Tower treats player time e.g. constantly checking back in to make sure your stores are stocked. If you want to get ahead, you have to grind out the elevator over a long period of time, which is one of the more blatant Skinner Boxes around.

This is true but not problematic.

Or you can buy in-game money with real money.

You should play Tiny Tower so you can become aware how useless the IAP is, especially after your first week or two.

 

[zoukka]

Hating on the biggest player on that market is kinda dumb when their whole enterprise is based on ripping-off products. Why not harp at smaller devs who are doing the same exact thing!

http://blog.games.com/2011/11/10/crowdstar-tower-town-ios-preview/

 

[dallow_bg]

Hating on the biggest player on that market is kinda dumb when their whole enterprise is based on ripping-off products. Why not harp at smaller devs who are doing the same exact thing!

http://blog.games.com/2011/11/10/crowdstar-tower-town-ios-preview/

Did you even see the picture in the OP and understand why?
And then look at how the game you posted looks and plays.

 

[Diablohead]

There is copying ideas and some design but to completely rip off and clone another game is going a bit too far, and rather rude.

 

[Amagon]

Why do we still have two topics about the same subject?

 

[zoukka]

Did you even see the picture in the OP and understand why?
And then look at how the game you posted looks and plays.

In the game I posted the tower is just segmented into multiple smaller towers.

 

[dallow_bg]

In the game I posted the tower is just segmented into multiple smaller towers.

And it's different enough to be ok.
Look at the description, the game has resourcing, towers are constructed differently, people have moods.
That actually tried to change things up enough.

Zynga copied the mechanics 1:1.

 

[Interfectum]

In the game I posted the tower is just segmented into multiple smaller towers.

That's cool and all but the Zynga game in question is virtually an exact lift of Tiny Tower. I'm not sure the game you posted really qualifies as that.

 

[Azure Dream]

Why do we still have two topics about the same subject?

Seems kind of fitting, don't you think?

 

[Stumpokapow]

In the game I posted the tower is just segmented into multiple smaller towers.

Looks like the core gameplay is different based on the preview you linked; you choose which stores to buy, citizens will only live in certain kinds of stores rather than being more productive in certain kinds of stores, there's a gameplay loop involving secondary decoration and cosmetic stuff, there's a gameplay loop involving cutting down trees. And yes, it's also horizontal and segmented.

That it's inspired by Tiny Tower is obvious. It also looks kind of poop to me. But it's definitely less of a direct ripoff than Zynga's thing.

 

[zoukka]

That's cool and all but the Zynga game in question is virtually an exact lift of Tiny Tower. I'm not sure the game you posted really qualifies as that.

Fair enough.

 

[DangerousDave]

In the game I posted the tower is just segmented into multiple smaller towers.

There are much other differences. The gameplay is not based in restocking items and then selling them, and the shops don't have 3 products that need to assign 3 workers. There is no elevator minigame. The shops are not based in 5 categories and the workers don't have different skills points for each cathegory . Also, in order to build houses and shops you use a system based in materials that you dig in the fields.

The only thing that is similar is that you build houses and shops. But there is no similarity in gameplay. The same can be said about people that say that Tiny Tower copied Sim Tower.