• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 6: Final Destination confirmed for not fun

At the time of Brawl, Lucario and ZSS were both one-shots, too.

Lucario could never be considered a one-shot though unless they ended the franchise right there and then. Pokemon continue from game to game. (Unless it's like Spiky-eared Pichu)

Unless Demise was replacing Ganondorf, I don't see Demise replacing a series veteran that has more impact on the series than him.
 

Nickle

Cool Facts: Game of War has been a hit since July 2013
Super Smash Bros OT 7: Where half of us knew that Wii Fit Trainer was in it all along.
 

Kinsei

Banned
I forget, what was Samus' excuse for not having any powerups at the start of Super?

I don't think there was one, unless it was in the manual. Prime/Fusion started the loss of power-ups explanation.

Digimon did have the best Smash clone game I've ever played. I loved Rumble Arena.

Yeah it was. As for a Digimon rep, I'd want it to be Gallantmon. You know it would be someone from the anime and Gallantmon is the best anime Digimon.
 
I'm honestly not unwilling to accept that argument. It would be just like Sakurai to do that.

The Ridley shadow in the video had weird animations that did not seem to match the fluidity of most of the characters in the game and he's at least twice indicated Ridley is a hazard in Pyrosphere. Now that there's actually officially a Stage Boss thing, and Sakurai specifically showed Ridley when talking about Stage Bosses, it would be a huge fakeout that would genuinely surprise me.
My biggest evidence in favor of Ridley is that Sakurai is not an asshole. Why only show shadows in the video if Ridley was not in? The man loves to troll, but has he ever shown us something to make us believe a much-wanted character is in only to not include it? I don't recall him ever doing such a thing, but I'll gladly be proven wrong. Is he really the kind of person to tease fans only to knock them down at the end, though?

Not Heihachi, Sakurai said no characters from other fighting games. Only Pacman.

And I don't Sakurai will add demise, he usually stays away from one-shots. But maybe Tingle would be the Zelda character? We haven't seen him yet.

I'm also a fan of Thread 7: Ridley is not playable
Do you have a link to Sakurai saying that first line? I would love to be informed on that.

Demise is kind of a special case. He is THE original Ganondorf. Not just another random final boss. He sets the stage for all of the ills that eternally befall the world in the Zelda games.

Plus, he uses a sword; he could be given a sword moveset to make Ganondorf+sword folks happy while also retaining Ganondorf to please his hardcore fans.

Then there's the whole cloud image thing, which folks may or may not be convinced by.

I'm not certain on Demise's inclusion, but I think he has a really good shot based on all of the above.

Edit: Also, I doubt Demise will be a one-offer. With his role as Ganondorf's original form, I absolutely promise you that he will make a reappearance in a few Zelda games. Ganondorf rediscovers his origins and seeks to re-obtain his once-held true power...

Not happening but, what if there was a Digimon rep?

Tq9cYMN.jpg
Let's keep shit characters to a minimum.
 
I don't think he was saying "By the way I am going to be reincarnated in to Ganondorf."

It was just, there will always be someone that goes against Zelda and Link and that he also really fucking hates them. It is not literally Demise. Ganondorf was just an evil guy, not the reincarnation of Demise.
 
Do you have a link to Sakurai saying that first line? I would love to be informed on that.

Demise is kind of a special case. He is THE original Ganondorf. Not just another random final boss. He sets the stage for all of the ills that eternally befall the world in the Zelda games.

Plus, he uses a sword; he could be given a sword moveset to make Ganondorf+sword folks happy while also retaining Ganondorf to please his hardcore fans.

Then there's the whole cloud image thing, which folks may or may not be convinced by.

I'm not certain on Demise's inclusion, but I think he has a really good shot based on all of the above.

Edit: Also, I doubt Demise will be a one-offer. With his role as Ganondorf's original form, I absolutely promise you that he will make a reappearance in a few Zelda games. Ganondorf rediscovers his origins and seeks to re-obtain his once-held true power...
http://mynintendonews.com/2013/07/2...-see-fighting-characters-in-super-smash-bros/

It's a little vague as always, but it makes me think we won't be seeing a Tekken character.

And those are some good points, but it seems strange to me to go with a TP design for Link and Zelda when Demise will be included instead of Ganondorf. Do you think Demise would replace Dorf, or would be added alongside? And what's the cloud thing?
 
Wait, Sakurai said no fighting game characters? When?

http://nintendoeverything.com/why-sakurai-isnt-keen-on-adding-fighting-characters-to-smash-bros/

“The biggest feature we look at in Smash Bros. is, ‘What does this character bring to Smash Bros. that other characters don’t?’ If you look at… someone from a fighting game already, and people like fighting with this character, from my point of view, it’s like ‘this guy does what this guy already does. He fills the role that this character already has. So while you may like this character and he’s interesting, that doesn’t really merge well, here.”
 

NotLiquid

Member
One more suggestion -
Thread 7: Zero Suit Thirty
(or Zero Dark Samus if you like)

Wait, Sakurai said no fighting game characters? When?

I don't think he ever said there wasn't going to be any. My only vague recollection is him saying that he didn't like doing them since they're pretty predictable to make.
 

Linkhero1

Member
I don't think he was saying "By the way I am going to be reincarnated in to Ganondorf."

It was just, there will always be someone that goes against Zelda and Link and that he also really fucking hates them. It is not literally Demise. Ganondorf was just an evil guy, not the reincarnation of Demise.

I'm wondering where people got the notation that Ganondorf is a reincarnation of Demise. I never thought that playing Skyward Sword.
 

Clov

Member
I don't think he was saying "By the way I am going to be reincarnated in to Ganondorf."

It was just, there will always be someone that goes against Zelda and Link and that he also really fucking hates them. It is not literally Demise. Ganondorf was just an evil guy, not the reincarnation of Demise.

Yeah, this is what I got out of it too. Ganondorf isn't Demise himself, but an incarnation of his "hatred", a foe that will always rise to the occasion to get in Link and Zelda's way. Demise does have physical similarities though, which I think opens up the possibility of Ganondorf being literally the "incarnation of Demise's hatred", but not Demise himself.
 

Codeblue

Member
Ridley is in you bastard!

I honestly believe that each of the four assist trophies we got signify a new character from that series.

Metroid - Ridley
Kid Icarus - Palutena
Skyward Sword - Demise
Fire Emblem - Chrom (ew, but most likely, and will replace Ike)

I don't think Skyward Sword will get a rep, Sakurai has completely ignored that game in favor of Twilight Princess.
 

batfax

Member
I'm not a big fan of fighting game characters appearing in crossover fighters either. It's like, I already know how they behave in a fighting environment and I really wouldn't expect to see anything special come from them. Seeing someone like Ryu, Heihachi, or Akira fighting in Smash would be boring because they'd do the same old stuff I already know they do. With someone like Sonic or Mega Man, they end up more interesting. For example, Mega Man's entire moveset is amazing in how much it draws from his history without missing a beat. That wouldn't happen if he was some Street Fighter.
 
I don't think he was saying "By the way I am going to be reincarnated in to Ganondorf."

It was just, there will always be someone that goes against Zelda and Link and that he also really fucking hates them. It is not literally Demise. Ganondorf was just an evil guy, not the reincarnation of Demise.
Eiji Aonuma said that Skyward Sword was going to explain Ganondorf's appearance in Ocarina of Time, though. If Ganondorf is just coincidental, Demise isn't actually adding any explanatory power here.

Also, the intention of Skyward Sword is to show the birth of the Zelda cycle. If Demise and Ganondorf aren't directly related, why is Ganondorf everywhere in the series? It would be really odd if Demise is saying "generally bad things will happen to you always, and yeah, this Ganondorf guy is usually the bad thing, but it's just a coincidence".

http://mynintendonews.com/2013/07/2...-see-fighting-characters-in-super-smash-bros/

It's a little vague as always, but it makes me think we won't be seeing a Tekken character.

And those are some good points, but it seems strange to me to go with a TP design for Link and Zelda when Demise will be included instead of Ganondorf. Do you think Demise would replace Dorf, or would be added alongside? And what's the cloud thing?
Thank you for the link. That is pretty suggestive against the inclusion of a Tekken character, and I like Sakurai's reasoning.

I think Sakurai is fine with mix-and-matching Zelda characters. I mean, TP Zelda was still turning into Sheik in Brawl, which is pretty ridiculous. If it were an issue, one possibility is that Sakurai knows the TP designs will be used again for Wii U Zelda (the tech demo looked TP-ish), and that he knows Demise will be featured. That's obviously a really long shot, but I'm not convinced the mix-and-match is an issue in of itself.
 

Kouichi

Member
While I do not believe the soul calibur final destination thing, it is interesting.

I don't believe the Soul Calibur connection either, but supposing we do get a Soul Calibur character to represent Namco, who do you guys think would be the best choice for Smash?

Nightmare would be pretty sick.
 

BY2K

Membero Americo
I KNEW the new Final Destination looked familiar! The stage's theme is the same as the new logo! Notice how the blue side is pillared and the red side is volcanic on both the stage and the logo?

I wonder what's the story behind this. I know there won't be a Subspace Emissary kind of thing, but it looks like one part is trying to corrupt the other.
 
I wonder what's the story behind this. I know there won't be a Subspace Emissary kind of thing, but it looks like one part is trying to corrupt the other.

It does, which ties into the whole SC thing. We do know the two games will interface in someway--maybe that's part of it?
 

DaBoss

Member
Yoshiiiiiiiiiiii

There's actually quite a number of changes to Yoshi than they make us think.

Standing upright and Jab animation change

Sakurai made it clear that Yoshi stands up right now. I think it is a great change.

There is also an animation change for the first two attacks (the jabs). And again, the cutting through the air stuff makes it look really nice.


Rainbows!

Yoshi's eggs now has a trail of rainbows. Pretty obvious, and I think it is a cool change.


Changes to Yoshi's Back Air (GIF is slowed down to 0.5x speed during the attack)

So the change is that instead of 4 tail swipes, Yoshi now does 3. In exchange for that, the 3rd seems to be much stronger and has more knockback. I think that is a good change.


Changes to Yoshi's Down Air
This one is the hardest to notice and made me make GIFs from Brawl lol. First let's look at Brawl Yoshi's Down Air. This is a GIF of it in 1/4th speed in-game.
iJBAJTXp4xzEx.gif

The numbers represent how I counted the animation. Every time Yoshi's feet are aligned during the flutter animation, it counts as 1 cycle. I put the start of the flutter kick as a cycle as well just to note that it does damage.

There are 7 cycles, however, only the first 5 seem to do damage while the last two are just there for animation purposes I guess. Which is shown in the next GIF (at 1/4th speed in-game).
iSu3eUeNUYndJ.gif

You'll see the last two cycles (the second one is really small, but since it is a part of the animation, I included it as a cycle) don't do any damage.

Now let's see what how Smash 4 does it (and I'll post the Brawl one side by side, but it really isn't comparable). GIF is at 0.25x speed and obviously not in-game.
ibk4HpXUxLIz3g.gif
iJBAJTXp4xzEx.gif

So there are only 5 cycles. The ending animation is just the legs and arms going back to normal. Not sure exactly when Yoshi can do something else. Although the GIFs aren't really in a comparable state, it can be said that the Flutter Kick is better now that the junk animation is gone.

And that is not it for Yoshi's Down Air changes. There is one more change.

In Brawl, if the opponent is on the ground and Yoshi uses its flutter kick, it did not cause the opponent to have horizontal knockback like it does at the end there. Mario gets knocked back to the right by a bit at the end.

My guess is that they changed it so that the splits that Yoshi does when landing while doing the flutter kick will cause damage and has horizontal knockback. In Brawl it did not do this and was merely a landing animation.

Further proof is the fact that I tried to mimic what happened in Smash 4 by making the first 2 cycles miss and let the next 3 cycles hit the other character, but the max number of hits that I could do was only 7 where as the Smash 4 one has 8 hits (you can tell by the red flash that appears).

NOW, the Down Air is done. That was more of an explanation than I thought I would need to explain my thought process lol.


New Dash Attack
Here is Yoshi's new Dash Attack Poltergust mentioned.

No more dashing headbutts for Yoshi. I guess we know where DK's dashing kick went to lol.

As someone who started liking playing as Yoshi in Project M, I think all of these changes are for the better.
 

Caladrius

Member
Yoshiiiiiiiiiiii

There's actually quite a number of changes to Yoshi than they make us think.

There is also an animation change for the first two attacks (the jabs). And again, the cutting through the air stuff makes it look really nice.

Rainbows!

Yoshi's eggs now has a trail of rainbows. Pretty obvious, and I think it is a cool change.

Changes to Yoshi's Back Air (GIF is slowed down to 0.5x speed during the attack)
So the change is that instead of 4 tail swipes, Yoshi now does 3. In exchange for that, the 3rd seems to be much stronger and has more knockback. I think that is a good change.

Changes to Yoshi's Down Air
This one is the hardest to notice and made me make GIFs from Brawl lol. First let's look at Brawl Yoshi's Down Air. This is a GIF of it in 1/4th speed in-game.
The numbers represent how I counted the animation. Every time Yoshi's feet are aligned during the flutter animation, it counts as 1 cycle. I put the start of the flutter kick as a cycle as well just to note that it does damage.

There are 7 cycles, however, only the first 5 seem to do damage while the last two are just there for animation purposes I guess. Which is shown in the next GIF (at 1/4th speed in-game).
You'll see the last two cycles (the second one is really small, but since it is a part of the animation, I included it as a cycle) don't do any damage.

Now let's see what how Smash 4 does it (and I'll post the Brawl one side by side, but it really isn't comparable). GIF is at 0.25x speed and obviously not in-game.
So there are only 5 cycles. The ending animation is just the legs and arms going back to normal. Not sure exactly when Yoshi can do something else. Although the GIFs aren't really in a comparable state, it can be said that the Flutter Kick is better now that the junk animation is gone.

And that is not it for Yoshi's Down Air changes. There is one more change.
In Brawl, if the opponent is on the ground and Yoshi uses its flutter kick, it did not cause the opponent to have horizontal knockback like it does at the end there. Mario gets knocked back to the right by a bit at the end.

My guess is that they changed it so that the splits that Yoshi does when landing while doing the flutter kick will cause damage and has horizontal knockback. In Brawl it did not do this and was merely a landing animation.

Further proof is the fact that I tried to mimic what happened in Smash 4 by making the first 2 cycles miss and let the next 3 cycles hit the other character, but the max number of hits that I could do was only 7 where as the Smash 4 one has 8 hits (you can tell by the red flash that appears).

NOW, the Down Air is done. That was more of an explanation than I thought I would need to explain my thought process lol.

As someone who started liking playing as Yoshi in Project M, I think all of these changes are for the better.

This already looks to be the best version of Yoshi yet (at least as far as aesthetic appeal and faithfulness to the character design go.)

I can't wait to give him another shot.
 
Top Bottom