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[LttP] Killzone: Shadow Fall. Forget it Lucas, it's Vekta Town.

P

PsihoPerihelion

Member
I just got a PS4 recently and my first game was KZ:SF. I've been reading since realese that the game is mediocre to decent from many places (including neoGAF) so I really, really didn't know what to expect. I'm not into Killzone, but I enjoyed my time with KZ2 and KZ3 was a nice technichal showcase and that's it. Let's move forward a couple hours later and I think I had a solid time with the game.

Obviously, the visuals are top notch. From the lighting to the textures, facial expressions (Echo's lips, anyone?), the animations, that scene that reminds me of that movie Contact, real time reflections, scale, crips IQ and some effects I've never seen in any game (no hyperbole) just wow, based Guerrilla. I can't wait to see how games look like once studios are able to squeeze that non-secret sauce. Bravo, Guerrilla.

Gameplay wise, all I can say is god bless the motherfucking Dualshock 4. I have medium size hands, so controllers can be a pain in the finger for me. Lucky enough, DS4 is something coming directly from god's anus.

The game itself actually feels ehm, different to previous Killzone titles. The forest level is an "interesting" (but wasted) piece of level design. It's enjoyable, it's decent on scale and openness. I wish Guerrilla had expanded more with it over the course of the entire game. The famous Vekta City scene is stunning to look at but it really feels like a tech demo and out of place. It's short and it feels like it was just thrown in there.

Multiplayer is fun and oh boy 60fps Killzone can't be bad. Then again, this is not the KZ I used to know, but it still is an interesting, kinda fun experience.

Pros: Incredible visuals, Great sound design, a small but decent step-up in terms of story and mission design, interesting/decent multiplayer, sweet as tits gameplay, decent amount of content overall.


Now, I do have some issues with the game besides the humble praise:

What the fuck with that level design, Guerrilla? The forest level is cool and all and Imma let you finish, but it really suffers from the same issues that another questionable launch title had. I'm talking about Perfect Dark Zero for the X360 and its fucking confusing level design. It took me a lot to figure out what the hell should I do. The forest level is great in scale, scope and variety for the genre, but holy cow does it show the flaws of the level design.

The story is a step-up as I said, but it still the same "look at this is fucking nothing" that Killzone is known for. It's a shame because honestly the lore and universe of the game seems really expansive and capable of telling a great story. Not so bravo there, Guerrilla.

Dialog is also waaay more decent than the "SHIT FUCK TITS MARINE" that KZ had before. Needs a bit of polish, but it's getting there I guess.

The Music is so unmemorable. Where the hell was Joris De Man? The awesome, bombastic sound of KZ was replaced for some cheap Lorne Balfe-like score. Not so fucking bravo there either, Guerrilla.

One thing I can't believe its still there is the POV. I'm still a fucking midget? Really, Guerrilla? OK, I can get the prologue because *spoilers reasons* but then you are still with the same POV from previous games. KZ2 puts you in the role of an obese, slow midget. Killzone 3 was the same midget but with him doing cardio 2 times a week. Shadow Fall? Well, your small friendo got fast as a tiger, but he's still short. Never going to get it with the ladies unless his penis is huge.

Cons: Story and Dialogue is still mrburnsmonkeysonatypewriter.png, confusing level design, music is as boring as masturbating to OK! Magazine, your character is still fucking Verne Troyer.

Overall, a solid 7 out of 10. Fun, sexy, witty, smart, one thumb up, Siskel kinda approves this, Ebert still thinks games are not art.

I got it for 10 bucks so for that price it was a cool buy, if else. If you can get it for cheap, what the fuck are you waiting for to get on the feets of Warwick Davis as Shadow Marshall?
 
A

antitrop

Member
Killzone: SF's level design is even mildly reminiscent of Perfect Dark Zero?

Well, looks like I will do everything in my power to never play it, then.
 
P

PsihoPerihelion

Member
antitrop said:
Killzone: SF's level design is even mildly reminiscent of Perfect Dark Zero?

Well, looks like I will do everything in my power to never play Killzone: SF, then.
Click to expand...

I swear to Yosp that I was confused just like my first time with PDZ. I had those "well, now what the hell should I do" moments with both games.
 
R

RE_Player

Member
There are things I enjoy about it but to me the pinnacle of the series is 2 for multiplayer and 3 for the campaign.
 
SkylineRKR

SkylineRKR

Member
Yes its true. SF reminded me a lot of PDZ, and mainly because of the level design with a lot of dead ends and no clear direction or feeling of progression.

I sold SF a few weeks after I beat it. Especially the second half is fucking terrible. The MP is okay, but BF4 has been stable for me since.
 
Ascenion

Ascenion

Member
Totally agree about the music. They could've at least got the guy that did KZ Mercenary. I wonder why Joris left though. He is basically for Killzone what Martin O'Donnell is for Halo. A necessity.
 
B

bigboss370

Member
make more open level design in fps they said. it will be fun they said.


I loved the game :) Story and dialogue felt like a step up from previous game, especially without rico. If they go back to all out war setting i think the next one will be fantastic
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
It's interesting to hear you praise the forest level. I thought it was aimless and dull. And no I don't want Call of Duty style linearity, but it was basically follow the waypoint... and even then most of the time I was confused where to go.

I finished the game.... First game I traded in for well over a decade.
 
C

chrominance

Member
The dialogue is better than Killzone 3 but only because Killzone 3's dialogue is hateful. But the virtue of only being incredibly unsubtle at times (helloooooo
that Helghan slum you walk through where someone literally dies in front of you talking about how awful living as a Helghan in the shadow of Vekta City is
) isn't really much of a virtue at all.

As for the level design, better waypoint markers would've sorted that out no problem. Apparently Perfect Dark Zero was confusing enough that it painted giant objective arrows everywhere to tell you where to go; Shadow Fall could've used more of those in that forest level.

But it's not solely a problem with level design; slightly later in the game you're given the ability to control little robot things, and you're asked to send one into a room to unlock a door. It's an obvious tutorial section that completely fails at teaching the player how to do something because the place you're supposed to dump the robot isn't at all obvious and, worse, is NOT THE PLACE WHERE THE WAYPOINT MARKER IS. The waypoint marker indicates the door you're trying to unlock, which, no shit Sherlock, there's only one goddamned door in the room, maybe put the marker someplace that's actually helpful to me. I wasted ten minutes basically spamming the X button on everything I could until finally I looked it up online and it was the one place I didn't think to spam because it wasn't even at eye level.

Once you get past all that stuff, Shadow Fall becomes a competent corridor/small arena shooter with no particular issues or highlights. But man, those first few levels. Simultaneously cool with how big they are, and frustrating with the constantly respawning enemies and they where-the-hell-do-I-go-nows.
 
T

ThoseDeafMutes

Member
I want to add this to my collection to have an exclusive shooter with pretty visuals on my ps4, but at the same time I don't want to pay 50 dollars for it and that seems to be the cheapest I can get it in Australia (by importing).
 
T

T.O.P

Banned
My opinion on this game is weird (friend traded it to me for 20€, so it's not like i had on me the weight that i spent full price on it either)

I absolutely LOVED the first five chapters, especially the space station, great atmosphere

Problem is, without checking the objective tracker every five seconds it's pretty much impossible to know where to go, i tried to not use it because i was pretty damn happy to see bigger non-corridor levels

Then we get a huge ass scripted level with a beautiful "hold you position" ending

Everything they tried to achieve at the start of the game fails and they go back to being one of the most boring second half i've ever played

WTF Guerrilla

Multiplayer is awesome, the DS4 does a great job on my aiming, maps and weapons seems pretty fun too


@yay graphics that i cannot touch
 
SkylineRKR

SkylineRKR

Member
At first I thought the MP controls were great but then I noticed that there is simply zero recoil in the weapons. So its pretty much spraying and adjust aim for a bit.
 
M

matrix-cat

Member
I played this a few weeks ago and found the story almost totally incomprehensible. Can someone help me out with this?

So there's that doctor who made a virus that kills only Helghast, right? And then the Helghast capture her and make her flick the switch so it kills all humans? Is that the 'Weapon' that the voices in your ear talk about for the whole game? Because right at the end of the game they actually 'fire' the 'Weapon', and it just looks like clouds of red space magic, and you don't die, and none of the Helghast around you die, and the half-human-half-Helghast girl with the sultry voice doesn't die so... I have no idea what happened. You're in that dropship flying towards the big tower thing, and then you get knocked out and... fall upwards along the spire, even though you were like a hundred feet off the ground when you fell which I'm pretty sure is not even anywhere near space.

Was the doctor who made the virus a Helghast or just pale? Where did the rockets you could fire in the zero-G bits come from? How come everyone was walking around on Helghan without radiation suits? Why were those things called Mobile Scan Units when they were obviously fixed in place?
 
F

fuenf

Member
I loved the game, it's far better than Killzone 3 and up there with the best shooters. Surprisingly I didnt have any trouble with the level design apart from a few minutes in chapter 2. I can see why people might get stuck and call it confusing but I somehow always choose the right route.

But talking about level design / gameplay in console fps doesnt make much sense without considering the difficulty the game is played. It might be different on lower difficulty levels but when you play on hard and go into the game with the mindset of a more tactical and careful gameplay approach the game really flourishes.
 
B

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
There is one thing that sticks in my mind about this game: some of the art in the late game was amazing.

Weird to say but it reminds me of FFXIII. A really uneven game .. with some later art of a citadel in the clouds that sticks in my head and almost makes me happy to have seen it at least.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
I'm in the same position - just got a PS4 and KZ. The campaign is basically exactly what I thought it'd be based on what people said. It's not as good as KZ2 or 3 I think, which both - KZ2 more than 3 - had a sense of urgency to the stuff you were doing. There was a very logical progression between doing A which lead to B which lead to C, even if they were all kind of dumb. With Shadowfall, you return to "base" after every mission which really screws with the continuity - it makes it a lot harder to really feel any sense of urgency about what you're doing, or really understand it. Sinclair saying "We need to drop you on this mining platform" is a lot less intereesting to me than "Thanks for saving the town square! Now get that elevator up to the mining platform!"

Similarly, I think the moral grey-area around who the good team and who the bad team are didn't make me question my actions (as I think was the intention), it made me not really care who won. They all sort of seem like arseholes, though I know which half of Vekta I'd rather live in. Ultimately I used to enjoy playing through the campaign of Killzones. This one felt more like the campaign of Mercenaries, which whilst being fun from a gameplay point of view, wasn't particularly compelling from a narrative one for exactly the same reasons.
 
sono

sono

Member
This is a great write up op and matches my thoughts although for me the replay ability gets it to an 8, I have not played pdz so can't comment on that. I felt they had a better plan for this but had to get it out for launch which accounts for all the cons.. Would have been a 10,,,
 
D

dark10x

Digital Foundry pixel pusher
The Music is so unmemorable. Where the hell was Joris De Man? The awesome, bombastic sound of KZ was replaced for some cheap Lorne Balfe-like score. Not so fucking bravo there either, Guerrilla.
Click to expand...
I keep seeing people say this but I just can't understand.

I thought the soundtrack was leagues better than the generic military tunes of the previous games.

Both Tyler Bates and Lorn have produced amazing work in this game and throughout their careers and I really enjoy how they had each one of them score the different sides of the wall. Really gave it a unique feel.

It's interesting to hear you praise the forest level. I thought it was aimless and dull. And no I don't want Call of Duty style linearity, but it was basically follow the waypoint... and even then most of the time I was confused where to go.
Click to expand...
The environment itself was simply interesting to play through, I thought. There were enemies in small patrols scattered about and you can do some thing out of order. It was reminiscent of Crysis 1 in a way. I wish more of the game had followed that design.
 
K

KJRS_1993

Member
To me, the campaign is an utter snore fest and then some. The introduction level was boring. The forest level after that was really cool, felt sandboxy in a way, it was nice. Then from the second level onwards, it was FPS 101- The Game.
Boring set pieces, obligatory "stealth" sequence, "defend the position!" and of course, the typical "man on the inside" story trope.
2014 game in graphics, 2007 in actual game.

Multiplayer is pretty fun though.
 
P

Pound_lb003

Member
I do really want to play it all the way through, but not for £52.

Will wait for a deal here in the UK and then lap it up. I have a feeling I will quite enjoy it given my very low expectations.
 
D

dalin80

Banned
I really tried to enjoy it but the difficulty curve was all over the fucking place and many areas felt like little ideas just dumped into the players path every now and then.
 
C

CyclopsRock

Member
Pound_lb003 said:
I do really want to play it all the way through, but not for £52.

Will wait for a deal here in the UK and then lap it up. I have a feeling I will quite enjoy it given my very low expectations.
Click to expand...

You can get them second hand from CEX and Amazon for less than £20. Loads of people getting rid of their bundle copies I guess. There's no online pass, either.
 
I

IncandescentPrecept

Banned
Some of the levels were confusing but the second half of the game had great levels. Very different from the regular military shooters - stealthy but not really boring.
 
B

BigDaddyFatSack

Banned
My first impression:
Wow the graphics on this is insane to the membrane. I can get used to this.

After playing 15 minutes: This game isn't really good. Surely GG learned how to make a FUN game after working so many years on their previous titles?

After a few days of playing: Okay. Multiplayer is very boring and some of the maps look really bad. Frame rates aren't stable. And this game just isn't very fun. Feels so lifeless and generic.

I sold it and went back to playing Battlefield 4.
 
B

bobot

Neo Member
ThoseDeafMutes said:
I want to add this to my collection to have an exclusive shooter with pretty visuals on my ps4, but at the same time I don't want to pay 50 dollars for it and that seems to be the cheapest I can get it in Australia (by importing).
Click to expand...

It's like 40 bucks to import from the uk dude

Edit: did anyone listen to the audio cues
In this game?
 
AHA-Lambda

AHA-Lambda

Member
antitrop said:
Killzone: SF's level design is even mildly reminiscent of Perfect Dark Zero?

Well, looks like I will do everything in my power to never play it, then.
Click to expand...

I could see some comparisons, PDZ needed giant arrows to tell you where to go after all, and KZSF you can feel quite lost on a number of occasions. I bloody hated SF, worst KZ by far.
 
SMOK3Y

SMOK3Y

Generous Member
ThoseDeafMutes said:
I want to add this to my collection to have an exclusive shooter with pretty visuals on my ps4, but at the same time I don't want to pay 50 dollars for it and that seems to be the cheapest I can get it in Australia (by importing).
Click to expand...

ive got it on disc you can have it DeafMutes ill post it to ya
 
Manp

Manp

Member
antitrop said:
Killzone: SF's level design is even mildly reminiscent of Perfect Dark Zero?

Well, looks like I will do everything in my power to never play it, then.
Click to expand...

down to people on forums suggesting it's not bad since you can press a button to show the correct path to follow
 
S

system11

Member
Pound_lb003 said:
I do really want to play it all the way through, but not for £52.

Will wait for a deal here in the UK and then lap it up. I have a feeling I will quite enjoy it given my very low expectations.
Click to expand...

Mine cost £30 brand new on ebay months ago, just go shopping there - the game sold in such huge numbers (due to bundles) that it's really cheap to get now.

I finished it today (didn't play past the forest level until Friday...), I enjoyed it overall, some of the graphics are really nice, but the stages really are variable in design. I was playing it on hard mode, some sections were pretty taxing and it took a few attempts working out how to take control of things. Owl use as a decoy becomes an essential tactic.
 
R

RK9039

Member
I literally just got a PS4 this morning with Killzone and BF4 (which I already have on Origin), my brother got it for me.

I started playing this game, it's decent but why is the bloom so intense? lol, it's like the game doesn't want me to see anything. I'm not used to such low FOV either. At least the game looks great.
 
P

PsihoPerihelion

Member
Ascenion said:
Totally agree about the music. They could've at least got the guy that did KZ Mercenary. I wonder why Joris left though. He is basically for Killzone what Martin O'Donnell is for Halo. A necessity.
Click to expand...

YES! Agree.

Monado Blade said:
I'm curious as to what OK! magazine is and why it's boring to masturbate to.
Click to expand...

OK_magazine.jpg
Click to expand...

ref said:
I agree with you on all your points, except for the music.

I really like the music.

But yeah, the story didn't really impress me at all.
Click to expand...

I don't know. I always loved the score from Killzone. I mean this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xPPXnU4vR2k

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTp9ZlK_K0w

That's what Shadow Fall's score lacked.

DemonCleaner said:
comon, you people really want all games to have CODlike level structure?
Click to expand...

What do you mean you people?

Seriously tho, why do you assume we all want linear shooter #101? Because I like the STALKER franchise for all the reasons I don't care about COD anymore.

I'm all in for non-linear level design, just that I don't want bad and confusing level design.

poopninjamvc3mk said:
OP little people need love too
Click to expand...

They get all the sugar in the world, baby.

BocoDragon said:
It's interesting to hear you praise the forest level. I thought it was aimless and dull. And no I don't want Call of Duty style linearity, but it was basically follow the waypoint... and even then most of the time I was confused where to go.

I finished the game.... First game I traded in for well over a decade.
Click to expand...

Forest level is an interesting place to wonder and look around. It tries to experiment with the non-linear design requested oftenly for shooters. The thing is that you seriously need waypoints telling you what to do or where to go. Add that even the waypoints become confusing at one point and all you get is a wasted vast forest that is a good level, but lost potential in the end.

I never had this issue with other games trying for non lineal design and you know why? Because they had good level design, so exploring and finding objectives felt natural.

Edit: I can't find the comment but to the guy who talked about the space station level, I agree. The atmosphere was freaking great there.
 
S

SniperHunter

Banned
I just beat this game since I have no internet at home and nothing better to do atm

Thoughts:

The weakest Killzone title yet, although I didn't play the first one. Story is horrible as always, I had no idea wtf was going on at all and all the characters are stupid and one dimensional. The level design is complete shit in all the levels. I don't even know what happened to the awesome hit detection from Killzone 2. No variety in the missions, just storm some generic location and kill all the guys in the room...The owl was a useless gimmick added cause the controller has a touch pad. The AI also sucks....

Multiplayer is simply ok, it has no staying power though. Overall I enjoyed this game slightly more than Crysis 3 (which I hate), but that's about it. 5/10

I don't have too much faith in GG anymore. Really skeptical about their next game and their overall future

Pros:
Great music
Good art direction and nice use of color
Good controls

Cons:
Horrible level design
shit story and characters
no mission variety
no enemy variety
poor AI
bad hit detection compared to KZ2

5/10
 
A

Always-honest

Banned
I thought some levels were great. Some were boring. I liked levels that a lot of others seem to hate.
Overall i enjoyed the game. But it had plenty of room for improvemenst everywhere.

Would love the next Killzone to be about Echo. It should be a far more memorable game though.

Maybe their next ip will be awesome.
 
D

Deleted member 752119

Unconfirmed Member
I played it recently and couldn't get into it. I liked Killzone 2 ok, and really liked Killzone 3 (great set pieces etc.).

I just didn't dig the gameplay in Shadow Fall. Too much having to be careful and sneak around, vs. blasting the shit out of everything (which is why I love shooters and Killzone 3 was great at that).

Too many shootouts were frustrating with bulletsponge enemies coming from multiple directions--making even the Owl shield, stuns etc. only semi useful. The end of Chapter 9 was particularly bad, and where I said fuck it and threw in the towel and moved on to Second Son. Making that worse, was that you can't drop the difficulty mid game save--only at the start. Lame as hell as I'd have just dropped it and finished that and chapter 10 if given the option.

Graphics were great though. I just hope they go back to more a Killzone 3 style of gameplay if the make a sequel.
 
P

Proponent

Banned
Wow, so I just finished this awesome game last night and immediately wanted to come to this thread and share my thoughts and impressions, which are all mostly very positive.

Just reading over this thread, I'm just so suprised at all of the varied opinions, and just so many that I disagree with whole heartedly, including the OP on some of his/or hers.

Alright, first let me score it and get that out of the way: 8.5. And it could have been a 10.

That said, I must say I can see where people and review publications can take issue with it.
FIRST OF ALL: This is a HARD CORE game. It does NOT hold your hand, and it's evident it does not want to.
This is not Halo and you are not Master Chief, when enemies swarm you, and flank you, and they will if you let them, you are done.

I was not expecting the game to be difficult, but yes, it kicks your ass. And I played it on Normal!

There are a few 'defend sections' that can get frustrating. So like Demon's Souls, prepare to die a lot.
This is the only shooter, and first game since DS, I've had to go online to get help to progress because I was stuck, on 'normal' ! There is a firefight that feels like Veteran CoD levels of difficulty.

Before I continue any further, let me be clear, This is my first Killzone game. I'm used to the fps' and tps' on Xbox 360, and although I tried KZ3 one night on my PS3, I didn't care for it. Also, I bought this game for 40$ at Bestbuy, but must say it's certainly worth 60 because of the replayability.

Now, this game is certainly unlike any shooter I've played, and I love it for that.
It doesn't treat you like a moron, it drops you in these large, beautiful environments, and lets you figure out where to go and what to do.
The game is like a puzzle.
Yes, this isn't your dad's fps, and although you can always hit down on the d-pad to get a way point marker to show you what direction you need to head in, it doesn't show you how to get there. It leaves it up to you to spend time exploring the environment, and figure it out like a big boy or girl.
This makes your first play through slow, and for impatient people, frustrating.

So much of the levels are a puzzle. So those used to a linear meat and potatoes fps path, this is totally different.
Also another positive besides the unique formula I just described, often there are several waypoints and destinations you need to get to, and the game lets you decide in which order you want to tackle them, sandbox style.
Based on this system, the levels are superb. 100% I loved it. One can see and appreciate that great care and work went into crafting this game.
I've only tried the PDZ demo once, and I remember the arrows it used, but this is not like that, so with the OP I disagree.

The graphics the OP covered well.
The hype is real. My mind is blown. It was the graphics that encouraged me to explore everywhere. I loved walking around and looking at everything.
The only flaw is the 30 frames per second, maybe next gen we can get a 60 frames version.

Dual Shock 4 use, OP covered it again. It's A+. Touchpad gameplay to control your Owl: genius.

The story, well I'll start with the characters. I liked them. All of them. A+. Now mind you, the guy you play as, Lucas, The Shadow Marshal, he had to grow on me. His voice irritated me at first and came off whiny, but it fit his character, and in the end I dug him.
Sinclair, he is awesome, his voice actor does an excellent job. Bravo.
Echo, she is fantastic and I just love her.
The Patriot, the terrorist you chase, I forget his name atm, BAD ASS. Bravo.
The players aside, the story is awesome. It's a straight up sci-fi joint. It's science fiction and it does it well. It comes off with a sort of Total Recall(OG) vibe to me.
This story, with it's characters, could make a bad ass sci-fi flick, and I'd love it.
As a game, it moves fast, and because the levels are huge and can be long, there are gaps in between recieving pieces.
Immediately upon starting my second play through, I was already piecing things together much more tighter and clearly.

The music is superb. I completely disagree with the OP and others on that.

FINAL NOTE: This is a game you will want to play through a second time to truly appreciate it. As it is here where your training wheels are taken off and know where to go and what to do, for maximum enjoyment in all out kicking ass.
I'm in my second run now, and I'm doing It with the HUD toggled off ! It looks and feels very cool, and knowing where to go and what to do as a reward for finishing only increases my fun factor.

Outstanding game.

I don't know about the other titles in the franchise, but Shadowfall has now established Killzone as a major game to me.

I hope this storyline continues, because I will buy the sequel day one.
 
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