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Matthewmatosis' Mario Sunshine Review
- Thread starter sappyday
- Start date
This guy does really good work. He nails a lot of my opinions on this game here. He was a little more critical about the camera than I would have been, but I think I used it differently. I would actually use the camera to turn Mario rather than the left analog stick, so I always felt like I had control with it.
He also could have been more critical on the lack of variety and that last level. The volcano stage was terrible in every way. However, Mario's mechanics and the controls in Sunshine are, in my opinion, unmatched.
He also could have been more critical on the lack of variety and that last level. The volcano stage was terrible in every way. However, Mario's mechanics and the controls in Sunshine are, in my opinion, unmatched.
strangecloud
Member
I have never heard of this person until now. Always good to have differing perspectives I suppose.
GuiltyBystander
Banned
I like his reviews and videos, especially loved his Dark Soul II and BioShock: Infinite critique videos.
Going to watch his Mario Sunshine review right now.
Going to watch his Mario Sunshine review right now.
Yeah, I also used the camera to control Mario's turns, it felt natural and responsive, as well as the rest of the controls and game mechanics. I remember first playing Galaxy and noticing how laggy it was compared to Sunshine, to the point where the game frequently confused long jumps and ground pounds.
SageWaterDragon
Banned
Honestly, Matthewmatosis is my favorite video game reviewer out there.
His accent is easy on the ears, his critical analysis is on-point, and he reviews things once the hype train is as close to stopped as it will ever be.
Of course, he isn't perfect - I don't know his age or when he got into playing video games, but nostalgia seems to play a key role in some of his opinions - but overall I feel that he provides one of the most balanced and interesting discussions on game design out there.
His accent is easy on the ears, his critical analysis is on-point, and he reviews things once the hype train is as close to stopped as it will ever be.
Of course, he isn't perfect - I don't know his age or when he got into playing video games, but nostalgia seems to play a key role in some of his opinions - but overall I feel that he provides one of the most balanced and interesting discussions on game design out there.
lastrealgameralive
Member
It's nice listening to someone who would talk for this long. His complaint at the 18 minute mark on the camera shows he doesn't understand how the camera orientation is to be behind-the-back.
Vert1 said:
Great review like always, but I find it weird he didn't talk about the fact that you are required to beat each world's Shadow Mario mission in order to beat the game. It totally goes against the freedom of the game's structure if you just have to beat them all the missions for the most part anyway.
Comfort Jones
Banned
Wait, I'm confused, how does that show a lack of understanding?
HyperCubed4
Member
Matthewmatosis is great. I'd love to see him and Campster do a podcast together.
Dr. Feel Good
Banned
Man Sunshine is so fucking underrated.
(personally, i dont think that we needed another thread!?)
Quoting myself form the other thread:
Quoting myself form the other thread:
I love sunshine. I still play it sometimes. The only reason why i do is because its surprisingly fun to control mario. Nintendo really outdid themselves. Moving mario, jumping everywhere and exploiting all the crazy things that mario can do, can make you forget about the games faults.
In reality, its unbeliable that nintendo released such a bad 3d mario game with so many faults. Its extrange, i can think about many, many things that the games does wrong yet i still have fun each time that i touch sunshine. It really can feel like a great and a bad game at the same time.
If someone asked me about sunshine, i would probably tell him/her that its clearly the worse 3d mario game. But... i come back to sunchine more than to other 3d mario games that i consider better videogames...
The 2nd half of the review, especially the end, nailed it.
You can see how polarizing the game can be just with its begining: after a really short cutscene, you are already playing. Thats the first thing you do. You have the airpor + all the water to try everything that mario can do without the waterpack. It start similar to Super Mario 64. The developers clearly knew how a game should start but... just after that, if you go to a specific place of the airport, an unskippable cutscene starts. The worse cutscene of the game, a cutscene that shows you how to use the waterpack. They dont give you the chance to try it for yourself, a chance to discover it. They chose the most intrusive way. The worse thing about this is that the did let you try mario (without the waterpack) a couple of minutes ago. And it gets worse because, after playing for another minute... a really long, bad, unnecessary unskippable cutscene starts... and you cant play, in a mario game!! After a couple of minutes you can play again. But what could have been a great begining ends up being a horrible 7-10 minutes one.
But i still like how i can move around the airport... before the waterpack cutscene. I hate the begining of that game
Yes, its a bad mario game, but you can have a lot of fun with sunshine
higgsboson1997
Member
Also check out his Wonderful 101 review- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYEb19dBGzc.
It's the best review I've seen of the game yet! This guy is amazing
It's the best review I've seen of the game yet! This guy is amazing
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
It has good mechanics, open ended level design, and a decent level of challenge going for it, but there's plenty to criticize. It's thematically monotone, and doesn't even take full advantage of the theme it anchored itself to. For example, why is the swimming shit compared to its predecessor when it takes place on an island resort? And why are the levels so limited in their aesthetic choices? They couldn't have done a full cruise ship level, or a serious coral reef level, or a bazillion other resort related things? Beaches, bays, and harbors only go so far. Even when it shifts themes to a volcano (the final level!) it's a bland badly designed stage that hardly does anything with the concept. The worst offense by far though is the excessive coin padding. I've done the breakdown in several SMS thread before, but just as a refresher...
Total full stages: 7 + hub world
Total number of shines: 120
Red coin challenges (the least offensive of the collecting): 20, not including hidden stages off Delphino Plaza.
Total 100 coin challenges: 8
Blue coin shines: 24
Total coin related shines: 52
Again, this doesn't include any of the Delphino plaza secret stages.
Now combine that with the 8 uninspired Shadow Mario shines, for a total of 60. That's right, a full half of the game is pure unadulterated filler. Then there's problems with the blue coins on top of that. Notably, some only appear on a certain episode even though they're in areas accessible whenever you're on that stage. Have fun exploring the same nooks and crannies over and over until you luck upon the right challenge I guess! You can love the game to pieces (I personally consider it the best 3D platformer of that generation in spite of itself), but it's obviously an unfinished product. Kinda reminds me of WW in that regard, actually.
A Link to the Past
Banned
GrotesqueBeauty makes me favourite point of criticism of Sunshine, how many dang coin shines there are + the Shadow Mario shines.
1. 24 Blue Coin Shines
2. 24 Red Coin Shines
3. 9 100 Coin Shines
4. 8 Shadow Mario Shines
That's just an obscene number of stars to be linked to simple coin collection and samey chase scenes.
1. 24 Blue Coin Shines
2. 24 Red Coin Shines
3. 9 100 Coin Shines
4. 8 Shadow Mario Shines
That's just an obscene number of stars to be linked to simple coin collection and samey chase scenes.
Blackstarhat
Member
LiveFromKyoto
Member
This video makes me appreciate 3D World and its focus on pure platforming and creativity that much more.
Sunshine was one of the big games of my childhood, I've played through it at least four times. That said this review is spot on.
(It's still under-rated though because shitty level design aside it controls SO well)
RoyaleDuke
Banned
Super Mario Sunshine is probably the best of the 3D Marios for me as I loved everything about it when I played it, and it's really only beaten by 3D Land for me.
Stereogatari
Banned
I recently discovered this guy's reviews when someone posted his Mario 64 one here. Thank god I saw that post.
Matthew produces meaty and in-depth analysis of games, that can be as long as full TV show episodes.
I can't wait to devour this one, though Mario Sunshine remains a barely played game for me. I'm saving it for when I get my first gaming PC.
Matthew produces meaty and in-depth analysis of games, that can be as long as full TV show episodes.
I can't wait to devour this one, though Mario Sunshine remains a barely played game for me. I'm saving it for when I get my first gaming PC.
Regulus Tera
Romanes Eunt Domus
FLUDD is great and I wish there were a way to incorporate him in the following games, but Matosis gets it right in how a lot of the stars in Sunshine really require little platforming in general.
Excited for his Galaxy review.
Excited for his Galaxy review.
A Link to the Past
Banned
It's a big part of why I classify Sunshine as much more of an adventure game with platforming than a platform game.
lastrealgameralive
Member
It shows he doesn't get the importance of camera and body alignment; he doesn't understand the core Mario feel. As I already wrote, the camera not aligning behind-the-back of Mario when hover is activated would lead to awkward flight controls. Nintendo was smarter than to let that happen.
Intheflorsh
Banned
This was the first Mario game I ever played so I'm always sad to see it get ripped apart on message boards. I had some good times with it.
Polioliolio
Member
I enjoy his reviews to some extent, but some of this is just that obligatory classic review style nitpicking.
I don't care if Mario has to descend into deep underwater level slowly and that there's no FLUDD mechanic to make him travel downward faster.. Can you imagine the movie 'The Abyss' if they rocketed to the ocean floor 5 times faster?
I'm not of the opinion that a game needs to be completely intuitive to every whim of the player. Sometimes bending over backward adds a more rewarding feeling to success, or at least a satisfying feeling of relief.
Later he goes on to criticize the stark difference between normal gameplay and that Mario can walk into a cave and be in the FLUDDless levels. Sure it's odd thematically, but I don't remember feeling detraction from this. If anything I thought, 'wow, cool.. That's different'. First he praises it for creating a solid overarching theme, then criticizes it for being too thematic and not allowing itself the freedom to have say, floating platforms instead of platforms attached to a windmill or ferris wheel, THEN criticizes that there are these separated levels where things are all floating around and don't make sense like the normal levels.. This is certainly nitpicking.
And now he's complaining that the music can be soothing and relaxing for exploration, but that the soundtrack "works to its detriment" by "at times bursting with an insane amount of energy and harsh instrumentation", referring to the death noise, and that it makes him think of a clown honking at the player when they die and mess something up, and that it becomes grating... And yet in the 'best death sounds' thread that was floating around here, someone had posted the Mario Sunshine death noise because its memorable and they enjoyed it. I tend to like it as well. Yeah it's like a Nelson 'haaa-haaaa' in your face, but you died. You failed. It's okay that the game laughs at you for dying. Dark Souls straight up tells you 'YOU DIED', .. would he be irritated by this too? Parts of the review sound like they're coming from an insufferable elderly man.
Baaah. On one hand I like the in-depth review nature of this, but if this isn't nitpicking to the highest degree, I'm not sure what is.
I don't care if Mario has to descend into deep underwater level slowly and that there's no FLUDD mechanic to make him travel downward faster.. Can you imagine the movie 'The Abyss' if they rocketed to the ocean floor 5 times faster?
I'm not of the opinion that a game needs to be completely intuitive to every whim of the player. Sometimes bending over backward adds a more rewarding feeling to success, or at least a satisfying feeling of relief.
Later he goes on to criticize the stark difference between normal gameplay and that Mario can walk into a cave and be in the FLUDDless levels. Sure it's odd thematically, but I don't remember feeling detraction from this. If anything I thought, 'wow, cool.. That's different'. First he praises it for creating a solid overarching theme, then criticizes it for being too thematic and not allowing itself the freedom to have say, floating platforms instead of platforms attached to a windmill or ferris wheel, THEN criticizes that there are these separated levels where things are all floating around and don't make sense like the normal levels.. This is certainly nitpicking.
And now he's complaining that the music can be soothing and relaxing for exploration, but that the soundtrack "works to its detriment" by "at times bursting with an insane amount of energy and harsh instrumentation", referring to the death noise, and that it makes him think of a clown honking at the player when they die and mess something up, and that it becomes grating... And yet in the 'best death sounds' thread that was floating around here, someone had posted the Mario Sunshine death noise because its memorable and they enjoyed it. I tend to like it as well. Yeah it's like a Nelson 'haaa-haaaa' in your face, but you died. You failed. It's okay that the game laughs at you for dying. Dark Souls straight up tells you 'YOU DIED', .. would he be irritated by this too? Parts of the review sound like they're coming from an insufferable elderly man.
Baaah. On one hand I like the in-depth review nature of this, but if this isn't nitpicking to the highest degree, I'm not sure what is.
Comfort Jones
Banned
In that exact instance he explains why the camera actually makes hover more awkward than it should be. It's one thing to argue it's a necessary evil but trying to say that shows he doesn't understand is stretching it.
The nitpicking is somewhat preceeded by the fact that he does state that these games are pretty much all masterfully crafted. What else is there, aside from the handful of glaring oddities per titles, to do but nitpick at the much, much finer details that can go greatly unnoticed?
Maybe the lecture-ish nature that draw me in. There aren't enough serious in-depth review while there are too many reviews made for entertaining (while being informative at the same time). I guess that what makes me can apreciate the design of Super Mario 64 even when I've yet to played it.
Yeah, he's like to nitpicking area. But if you do in-depth reviews frequently, it'll matter of time until you start nitpicking some part, worse if you're perfectionist.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
Honestly, the slow, critical pace feels like a major breath of fresh air compared to most gaming channels on youtube.
Super Mario Sunshine's underwater levels are not The Abyss, nor are there trying to be. There's a grand total of 1 instance in the game where the slow descent speed adds to the atmosphere, the rest of the time it just gets in the way.
the wind waker, super mario sunshine, and mario kart double dash were this weird trio of supreme disappointments of ead from majora's mask through pikmin 2. there had to have been some sort of mandate set to make sure the extreme delays of the n64 era never happened again, because melee was made in a short period of time, luigi's mansion was made in a short period of time, even metroid prime was essentially rushed to completion, although unlike the ead counterparts of the time, it honestly doesn't come across that way. pikmin 2 was this breath of fresh air despite being a sequel to a 2001 gamecube launch game, and signaled a return to form for ead that i think continues until 2010.
Whats funny because those 3 used to be my favorite games of every one of their respective series, Wind Waker been the only one remaining on top. Double Dash was bested by Mario Kart 8 and Sunshine by 3D World.
What this reviewer says is true, this games are the most polished incomplete games of all time.
lastrealgameralive
Member
He doesn't understand how to align the camera when hovering which is why he criticizes it so much.
On how to handle hovering he says: "This means the player needs to continually change the movements on the left analog stick based on what the camera is doing".
As I've already written the camera is trying to re-orient itself behind Mario's back. If the player follows his advice it will make the reorientation worse. The player should be changing the camera direction with the c-stick in the direction of Mario's back or simply snap it in place with L-Trigger. There's nothing wrong with the camera.
You can watch some of his footage (i.e. Noki Bay) and see how poorly he positions/moves the camera.
"Often make it harder to move in desired direction"
"Unnecessarily complicates process of moving around in air"
"Players need to continue to set up new camera after every use of the hover nozzle"
"No camera system is ever going to be perfect".
Normal complaint for beginner to intermediate players. Sunshine has the best camera system of any Nintendo game.
I cant read all that now wow... (i will latter) but there seems to be a looooot more effort put in that comment than in the normal "opinion threads" (i mean, threads that are not about "news") that people create. Its kid of sad that you are still a junior member. It would have been great if you could create a thread about it.
edit: vert1, you can post a link to your huge comment (that i havent read yet
) about the camera in this thread: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=914422its true that the tittle hasnt been changed to something like "Matthewmatosis 3D Mario Game Series Review", the tittle still says "Matthewmatosis' Mario 64 Review" but it seems that its goign to be a more active thread for discussion (sunshine discussion included).
Polioliolio
Member
Well how often are you even descending onto the ocean floor in that game? Maybe for a few stars at most?
Also, it's been awhile. Can you not aim your head down and swim like in Mario 64?