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Does the NX being a hybrid allow for innovation in game design?

bomblord1

Banned
We know a lot about the upcoming NX based on the leaks/rumors from sources like Eurogamer. And I've been thinking (hoo boy)

Let's assume for a minute the games are made aware of when the system is either docked or in mobile mode (It's a fairly safe bet that it will). But take it a step further and assume games will actually cater to the fact you are in docked or handheld mode. What kind of gameplay innovations could we see from this? Right now the belief is that I pop out the system and take exactly what I was playing before on the go. Or vice versa just plop what I'm currently playing up on the big screen. While I'm certain this will be a possibility let's stop for a minute and think. Could games take on a slightly or even radically different form when you go from one mode to the other? This line of thought could lead to some Nintendo style innovations that people think just being a hybrid fails to have. The ones that people seem to believe are missing from the NX. The proverbial missing piece of the innovation/gimmick puzzle.

Here's an easy example:
Nintendogs NX. While at home you get all the basic functionality needed to take care of your dog on the big screen. But when you undock the system you go into walking mode. The system acts as a basic pedometer and you transition to seeing your dog on a leash maybe in a park. You get rewards based on how long your walk was and you can also pick up Streetpass content. You still can interact with your dog as at home but the system now acknowledges you are on the go and adjusts the content accordingly.

Or the reverse:
Let's say we have Mario Kart 9. The game works fine on the go with all the expected features but when the system is docked it unlocks splitscreen play as 4 player splitscreen doesn't exactly work on a handheld.

After this idea hit me I finally understood how the system could be used for a Nintendo style gameplay gimmick (no gimmick is not a bad word) and it got my mind spinning. I would like to believe that is what we've been missing. It also jives with a few leakers using wording like "play the Assassin's Creed mobile game out of your pocket"

Anyway just some random shower thoughts let me know what you think.
 
I'd love to see some Pokemon GO style features in the next mainline Pokemon game.

Mario Maker NX will probably only work as a level editor when you are in handheld mode, with access to the touch screen. Docked mode will be only for finding and playing levels.
 

OCD Guy

Member
I'm still not even convinced that it's definitely a hybrid.

I just can't see that being the "thing", or gimmick that Nintendo centre a console around, the thing they feared competitors would imitate.

What innovation could they possibly implement? Second screen while you play on a tv? Like the Wii U? Nah.

Detachable controllers as the thing? Wow so innovative.

The NX is something we've not had before, with features that Nintendo have not had before.

I can't believe people think the NXis basically a Wii U gamepad that isn't tethered to the console and uses a "dock" instead of a console as the base.

I think it's safe to assume that Nintendo are not simply creating an evolution of the Wii U lol.
 

aadiboy

Member
I don't see how those examples you gave are innovations in game design. If anything it just sounds like the handheld versions are gimped.
 

Pifje

Member
I think it will hurt innovation.

Games will be limited by the power of the handheld

How have PS4 or Xbox One innovated in comparison to Wii U or the last generation's consoles? How does the increased power show in terms of innovations? What is now possible when it previously wasn't?

I'm just interested.
 

Jackano

Member
Well no. Innovation hardly comes from the form factor, at least I can't imagine anything right now.
Not to mention as far as we know, we loose dual screen gameplay.

As much as we are thinking of the rumors about the hybrid form factor, there must be more out of the device to discover.
Back at the DS time, we discussed dual screens, but touch screen was the true innovation.
 

GuyKazama

Member
Unless we're talking VR, what kind of game design requires a lot of horsepower?

Hitman, wih a significant amount of NPCs

Battlefield, with 64 players over a large destructable environment

Fallout, with a large immersive physics based world

Sports that go for realism

Story based games that need to show human-like performances

Large open world games

...
 

OCD Guy

Member
As much as we are thinking of the rumors about the hybrid form factor, there must be more out of the device to discover.
Back at the DS time, we discussed dual screens, but touch screen was the true innovation.

Exactly.

We're going to be shocked when the NX is revealed. There's no way the "gimmick" is being a hybrid lol.

If anything it will be a hybrid device with a gimmick, funnily enough no "leaker" has offered ideas as to what that is. Detachable controllers certainly dont add anything that we've not had before.

A normal controller is technically "detached" lol.
 

Trago

Member
Hitman, wih a significant amount of NPCs

Battlefield, with 64 players over a large destructable environment

Fallout, with a large immersive physics based world

Sports that go for realism

Story based games that need to show human-like performances

Large open world games

...

Many of those examples were possible on last gen hardware.
 
As much as we are thinking of the rumors about the hybrid form factor, there must be more out of the device to discover.
Back at the DS time, we discussed dual screens, but touch screen was the true innovation.

This. I still think we're way off with what will get NeoGAF talking about this thing all the way to March.

Hitman, wih a significant amount of NPCs

Battlefield, with 64 players over a large destructable environment

Fallout, with a large immersive physics based world

Sports that go for realism

Story based games that need to show human-like performances

Large open world games

...

Well Breath of the Wild looks stunning on Wii U...
 

GuyKazama

Member
Many of those examples were possible on last gen hardware.

I played Bethesda's open world Terminator in 1990. It was open world with NPCs... so it was 'possible' then as well. Hardware advancements though have improved the experience in the same type of game.
 

AmyS

Member
Metroid X on console -- Metroid Dread on handheld, and vice-versa, with the innovation being seemless interaction between the two games.
 
It will bring innovation because of the default two player option.

Right now no game is designed around local multiplayer because one controller is the default and devs aim for the default.
 
Exactly.

We're going to be shocked when the NX is revealed. There's no way the "gimmick" is being a hybrid lol.

If anything it will be a hybrid device with a gimmick, funnily enough no "leaker" has offered ideas as to what that is. Detachable controllers certainly dont add anything that we've not had before.

A normal controller is technically "detached" lol.

Detachable controllers gives you 2 player option in every console by default.

It maybe an innovation that you dont like, but kids will love it.
 

Drkirby

Corporate Apologist
I don't think so. It's really just a move to try and consolidate the two different markets into one. The games that some people prefer on a handheld, others want on a system hooked up to a TV, and vise versa.
 

Schnozberry

Member
Many of those examples were possible on last gen hardware.

Considering how much energy has been dedicated this gen to avoiding running large numbers of NPC AI on the weak CPU's in the PS4 and Xbox One, I wonder how much of an effect the GPU horsepower (or perceived lack thereof) will actually have on game design. It seems that the architecture in the NX will be fairly modern, and the CPU should actually perform slightly better than the PS4 and Xbox One if the rumors are correct about an up to date ARM design.

I'm optimistic that most ports will be able to run well on the NX, but it will be interesting to see just how much game complexity will need to be toned down, depending on the final specs. Running at 720p on the handheld will help quite a bit, so perhaps it won't suffer as much as it would seem.
 
Yeah, I'm thinking multiplayer. I'm guessing there will be games you can play with two players holding two detachable controllers, without the need for a TV.

Think something as great as Spin the Bottle: Bumpies Party on Wii U but with instantaneous availability anywhere, anytime.
 

Trago

Member
exactly. but we are talking about game desing in 2017.

Which amounts to what exactly? And how does said design get hurt by lack of power?


I guess if you argue that there won't be complete parity with the other platforms in terms of features, sure. But then, I don't expect much in terms of third party support....
 
Yeah, I'm thinking multiplayer. I'm guessing there will be games you can play with two players holding two detachable controllers, without the need for a TV.

Think something as great as Spin the Bottle: Bumpies Party on Wii U but with instantaneous availability anywhere, anytime.

And dont forget the infrared hand recognition
 

OCD Guy

Member
Detachable controllers gives you 2 player option in every console by default.

It maybe an innovation that you dont like, but kids will love it.

But what would the controllers look like in that case? Only one analogue stick? Or will there be 2 analogue sticks on each side of the screen lol.

So 2 controllers by default but limit the amount of controls when used in 2 player, or look ridiculous and be bombarded with buttons.

And focusing on what Nintendo said about fear of imitation you think that would be the "thing" they feared people would imitate?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying what you're saying couldn't be a feature, infact it could be pretty cool, but I'm not convinced that's the "thing".

The NX will likely have lots of cool features but I think the core gimmick is going to be something none of us are expecting.

I'm in a minority but I also think the NX is going to be the Wii all over again, maybe not in exact numbers but in terms of a fad this will be pokemon go where non gamers are drawn to it. The worry is the longevity, as fads don't last.
 

EpicBox

Member
Every hardware innovation that could possibly provide new gameplay possibilities usually just results in:

A bunch of interesting concepts that get used for 1 or 2 games and then never touched again. (See the Playroom for the PS Camera.)
A load of really bad game moments trying to force people to use the new hardware capabilities. (See Uncharted 1 with its Sixaxis grenade aiming.)
Shovelware

The only exception appears to be touchscreens.
 

mario_O

Member
Which amounts to what exactly? And how does said design get hurt by lack of power?


I guess if you argue that there won't be complete parity with the other platforms in terms of features, sure. But then, I don't expect much in terms of third party support....

The experience.

Can some AAA games from 2017 run on a handheld hybrid? maybe, but how?
 
But what would the controllers look like in that case? Only one analogue stick? Or will there be 2 analogue sticks on each side of the screen lol.

So 2 controllers by default but limit the amount of controls when used in 2 player, or look ridiculous and be bombarded with buttons.

And focusing on what Nintendo said about fear of imitation you think that would be the "thing" they feared people would imitate?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying what you're saying couldn't be a feature, infact it could be pretty cool, but I'm not convinced that's the "thing".

The NX will likely have lots of cool features but I think the core gimmick is going to be something none of us are expecting.

When detached you get 2 nes controllers, good enoufh for casual players.

I posted a picture of another gimmick based on infrared cameras, following their patents, and things they have tried with wii u . Plus this gimmick would allow for ultra cheap additional controllers.
 

kunonabi

Member
As much as I would like the NX library to be as fresh and different as Breath of the Wild and Splatoon I'm actually getting the feeling they're going to play things even safer than they did with the Wii U. I certainly hope I'm wrong though.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
I can see a Pikmin style game, where you're "system dock" is your ship. The idea revolves around using Pikmin to gather resources/items for survival/rebuilding your ship when playing via handled. Then docking your system essentially uploads all of your previous work. Your ship improves, etc.

Or the same concept but with a base building game. Maybe you're fortifying a base to withstand enemy attacks at night.
 

OCD Guy

Member
When detached you get 2 nes controllers,good enoufh for casual players.
.

Yeah fair enough makes sense. Infact one of the things I like is Nintendo games tend to use minimal buttons, simple controls etc so I could kinda imagine two wiimotes on each side lol controllers that can be used individually but that feature motion functionality etc

While I'm still not convinced what you propose would be the core feature of the console, either way I'm looking forward to what Nintendo have up their sleeve.
 
I'm not sure the specific hardware setup will provide much innovation, without seeing it anyway.

But, if Nintendo have truly consolidated their strategy into a single device, instead of both a console and handheld. Then their software teams are going to have much more focus, time and freedom to innovate with gameplay in the traditional Nintendo way.

I just hope the NX works well as a TV device, because I'm not interested in a handheld at all.
 

OCD Guy

Member
I'm not sure the specific hardware setup will provide much innovation, without seeing it anyway.

But, if Nintendo have truly consolidated their strategy into a single device, instead of both a console and handheld. Then their software teams are going to have much more focus, time and freedom to innovate with gameplay in the traditional Nintendo way.

I just hope the NX works well as a TV device, because I'm not interested in a handheld at all.

Anyone remember the time when people were talking about NX being the ecosystem, and having a shared game library with separate devices.

So you could buy the console, or the handheld and experience the same software with slightly differing performance, and obviously have one Nintendo account with content locked to the account as opposed to the hardware.

I remember the talk about whether the console or handheld would come first, but then suddenly we just forgot about that and decided it was a hybrid.

I'd prefer that to be honest, I'd pick up the console as I'm not bothered about playing on the go, as like a tablet it would be a device that only moves around the home, and at home I prefer a larger screen.
 
Yeah fair enough makes sense. Infact one of the things I like is Nintendo games tend to use minimal buttons, simple controls etc so I could kinda imagine two wiimotes on each side lol controllers that can be used individually but that feature motion functionality etc

While I'm still not convinced what you propose would be the core feature of the console, either way I'm looking forward to what Nintendo have up their sleeve.

1KsUnKv.jpg


This infrared solution also opens the possibility to have custom cheap controllers for each game, since they would be empty inside
 

MoonFrog

Member
I certainly hope that if I want to play a game on the NX on the go, it being hybrid allows me to play the main game on the go. I don't think substantial, radical changes are a good thing. Less on an issue going from handheld play to home console play as you can do that in your living room, but still a hassle in, say, the cases where you'd use off screen functionality of the Wii U.

Changed features would have to be expanded ancillary features that wouldn't even be feasible in one form or the other. Them being core gameplay to fit where and how you are playing disrupts the appeal of a hybrid.
 

KingSnake

The Birthday Skeleton
I think it's too early for this kind of discussion, without knowing all the details about NX.

I think it will hurt innovation.

Games will be limited by the power of the handheld

I don't think you know what innovation is. Innovation driven by the computational power happens on PC anyhow.
 

axisofweevils

Holy crap! Today's real megaton is that more than two people can have the same first name.
I think only being one device means Nintendo can have the time to make a wider variety of games. Example: Instead of spending 4 years on Smash 3DS/Wii U, they only need to spend 2, and the remaining 2 years can be used to make F-Zero x Metroid or whatever.
 
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