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New Smash 4 Ruleset Bans Duck Hunt and Lylat stages, has DL= BF in stage striking

But all Omega stages aren't the same... some of them are different sizes, have different blast zones, are a pillar vs a floating platform, have lips on the edges that effect things like teleporting, etc... the link explains some of this but not all.

There's also the fact that some stages have copyrighted music on it, and even if you decrease the likeness of a certain song playing, that song might still appear, leading to a copyright strike if the gameplay's being recorded / streamed somewhere.

Omegas were a band-aid solution to fixing issues with stage design tbh, "You want a version of the stage with no hazards like the Yellow Devil, or Materia Summons, go Omega" is probably what Sakurai thought when making that decision, rather than simply giving us an option to disable them on the normal stage, or designing the stage better in cases like Gaur Plain or Windy Hill Zone.
 
I'm kinda ambivalent about Dreamland = Battlefield, but Duck Hunt was inevitable. That stage is the definition of Smash 4's garbage stage design philosophy of "throw stuff at the wall and then don't bother playtesting" and it was obvious it isn't a great stage to lay on from day 1.

Smash Bros. as a franchise needs someone on the team to make stages who understands how they work. Like, desperately. Things like Duck Hunt's tree or Gaur Plains' everything never should have made it past basic QA testing.
 

DrArchon

Member
Smash Bros. as a franchise needs someone on the team to make stages who understands how they work. Like, desperately. Things like Duck Hunt's tree or Gaur Plains' everything never should have made it past basic QA testing.

I'd love nothing more than a dedicated stage planning team that makes sure more stages are fun on a casual and competitive level. At least someone who could ask basic questions like "Why are the boss characters respawning so quickly?" and "How exactly is anyone supposed to enjoy Great Cave Offensive?"

Stages are one of the few areas of Smash that I feel have just gone downhill as the series has gone on. You started seeing it in Melee with Brinstar Depths and PokeFloats, and then in Brawl you got nonsense like New Pork City, but with Smash 4 they're just awful.
 
I'd love nothing more than a dedicated stage planning team that makes sure more stages are fun on a casual and competitive level. At least someone who could ask basic questions like "Why are the boss characters respawning so quickly?" and "How exactly is anyone supposed to enjoy Great Cave Offensive?"

Stages are one of the few areas of Smash that I feel have just gone downhill as the series has gone on. You started seeing it in Melee with Brinstar Depths and PokeFloats, and then in Brawl you got nonsense like New Pork City, but with Smash 4 they're just awful.
Agreed completely. Another point that I don't think gets brought up enough is the prevalence of walkoffs, a stage type that intrinsically gimps certain characters and removes an entire facet of play (edgeguarding). It's notable that Smash 64 only had one and it was that game's "bonus stage" of sorts, but the stage type has only become more and more common as the franchise has gone on. Likely because it's easier to conceptualize as "part of an existing world", but with less concern for the consequences of play.
 
I could never get into the mind set to ban so much out of Smash. It takes away from what the game is. It's exactly why I hate smogon for Pokemon. I totally understand in both instances it's to take away the random nature of the games, but I just don't agree with it. Smash should be everything goes.
 
That seems like more than enough to get a stage banned. A hazard is a hazard.

Stages aren't banned just because they have hazards.

Smashville has random balloons that fly by and block projectiles every so often. That's a hazard. But nobody in their right mind would ever ask for Smashville to be banned since it's like the most neutral of neutral stages.

If we cut out any map with any minor hazard at all, there'd only be Battlefield. Even Final Destination has that screen flash that happens occasionally that could be seen as a hazard.
 
Stages aren't banned just because they have hazards.

Smashville has random balloons that fly by and block projectiles every so often. That's a hazard. But nobody in their right mind would ever ask for Smashville to be banned since it's like the most neutral of neutral stages.
Plenty of stages are banned for having intrusive hazards.

Smashville's platform goes so far to the left and right I don't know how it doesn't get banned anyway.

Edit: oh, I got smashville confused with town and city.
 
Intrusive hazards, being the key distinction.

The wind in Dream Land isn't intrusive at all. Like the balloons on the Animal Crossing stages or the Shy Guys on Yoshi stages.
 
Intrusive hazards, being the key distinction.

The wind in Dream Land isn't intrusive at all.

I don't think there's a fine line between what's intrusive and what isnt. If the wind on dreamland or the balloons on smashville wind up making a difference in a high stakes match I don't get how they wouldn't be intrusive.
 
What would the results of a large tournament look like if nothing was banned?
Much lower skill ceiling because you would get randomly killed by things and every decent strategy would be camping on the many, many stages that are conducive to it. It would be boring and not at all fun.

I don't think there's a fine line between what's intrusive and what isnt. If the wind on dreamland or the balloons on smashville wind up making a difference in a high stakes match I don't get how they wouldn't be intrusive.
Non-obtrusive hazards offer a benefit to the skill ceiling by allowing people to work around them - someone might be able to see a Smashville balloon coming and use it as a weak shield, for instance. As opposed to the Yellow Devil, which is rather more difficult - and rather less fun - to work around.

It's like adding spice to the mix - having a little bit of randomness is great, and makes a game more exciting and fun to learn. Like how trading card games are still very competitive despite - or perhaps in part due to - the intrinsic randomness of card draw.
 

Raysoul

Member
I really hope Smash for Switch will feature tournament friendly stages with minimal/calculated hazards. There are plenty of beautiful transforming stages in Smash and it is a shame they are only being used for casual play.
 
I really hope Smash for Switch will feature tournament friendly stages with minimal/calculated hazards. There are plenty of beautiful transforming stages in Smash and it is a shame they are only being used for casual play.
It seems like there are a lot of relatively-small changes they could make to Smash 4 to greatly increase its competitive viability - some stage work, standardizing how custom moves work (like an official version of the custom moves project), and standardizing Miis, as a few small examples. I hope they do at least some of that, as I'd honestly love an excuse to get back into competitive Smash 4. It was just too mentally taxing to play a game competitively when it was so blatantly obvious that the creators had no interest in competitive play at best and seemed to actively dislike it at worst.
 
I really hope Smash for Switch will feature tournament friendly stages with minimal/calculated hazards. There are plenty of beautiful transforming stages in Smash and it is a shame they are only being used for casual play.

Adding Fountain of Dreams and Pokemon Stadium 1 would be nice step in the right direction. But crazy stages can be fun too, so go ahead and throw in Rainbow Cruise, Poke Floats, and Big Blue.

A Battlefield form for all stages would also be neat. I'd be down with adding it to For Glory for a 50/50 split between FD and BF.
 
What does counter pick mean?

in a tournament set, you play RPS and do a stage striking process to pick the stage the first match happens on. from there, the loser of each match gets to pick the next stage. counter-pick stages are ones who aren't options for the initial choice but can be picked by the loser for a later game.
 

Jonnax

Member
in a tournament set, you play RPS and do a stage striking process to pick the stage the first match happens on. from there, the loser of each match gets to pick the next stage. counter-pick stages are ones who aren't options for the initial choice but can be picked by the loser for a later game.

Ah, I see. Thanks.
 
So the "official" TO ruleset got updated once again and there are a few changes

Lylat Cruise goes from BANNED to STARTER (T&C is also a starter once again)
Stage Clause has been added in (you can't pick the LAST stage you won on)
Doubles Team Clause has been updated - a team cannot play a match unless the whole team is present
Only 3 omegas: Suzaku, Wily, Midgar (kinda lame TBH)

And there were the things that did not change. Coaching is still legal, Duck Hunt is still banned and most stupidly of all BF/DL remain unified. This means that despite Lylat being saved, Smash 4 is still more restrictive than Melee, a 16 year old game. Overall, it's still pretty shit TBH.
 
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