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Why does GFWL "suck" and how can it be improved?
- Thread starter brain_stew
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Da1nonly J
Member
Billychu said:
1. Don't buy it on Steam?
I don't get why people expect a game using GWL sold on steam to not need GWL to run while they are playing it.
Let's say you were able to buy a game from the GWL marketplace like Modern Warfare 2 which uses Steamworks. You woluld have to install Steam to activate it if you didn't already have it, and wouldn't you need to be logged into Steam to play it???
How is that any different?
Gully State
Member
Da1nonly J said:
One service is better than the other. So naturally the consumer would want not want to run the lesser of the two clients..
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
Again, this can't be repeated enough. Microsoft is going after the Steam audience, nobody is debating this. Google is going after the Popcap/iPhone audience. By going after Steams audience, you need to offer something that would be worth no longer building your Steam library and that is no easy task. Cheaper prices? Wait for a Steam sale. Community? It will be as difficult as Sony trying to take people away from the XBL community. Microsoft knows its game over for them in this market and that is why they stopped quite some time ago in even trying.
Microsoft is ALL about control. Just look at the XBL. Square isn't planning on bringing FF14 due to the exact closed mentality that Microsoft has. If you're planning to take on Steam, you better do what they do and do it better which Microsoft has no desire in doing. That is why its already been game, set, match.
Microsoft is ALL about control. Just look at the XBL. Square isn't planning on bringing FF14 due to the exact closed mentality that Microsoft has. If you're planning to take on Steam, you better do what they do and do it better which Microsoft has no desire in doing. That is why its already been game, set, match.
xemumanic
Member
I think most of the reasonable complaints have already been mentioned, so I don't need to add my two cents on that end.
I liked GFW/GFWL from the get go because it brought a lot of console-like simplicity to PC games. The main issue people had with GFWL before they even knew anything about it was the typical MS hate, coupled with the requirement to pay for Gold service. To me, it didn't matter, as a 360 owner, I was already a Gold member. Thankfully, they've fixed that, I agree it was a bad idea. But 9/10 I was only interested in console ports, GTA4, DMC4, SF4, BioShock, etc. Games I play with my 360 controller on my HTPC because its better hardware than my 360, but I still get achievements and such. Its like having a 360 on crack, with 1080P+ resolution, 3D support, and all that.
I've never, however, bought a GFW/GFWL game from their marketplace app. Only retail, or from Steam. I did this because the GFW marketplace never had competitive pricing, not just to Steam, but even to retail. I didn't know about the technical issues mentioned here, so I'm glad I never did buy direct from MS. Plus, I can directly launch said games without Steam, even if I buy them FROM Steam just by launching the related .exe, so there's no reason to run Steam on those games.
I do have one or two issues with GFW that I've had for a while now. First off..........where the hell are all the Inde/XBLA games? Do you know how many of them I'd have double dipped on just to have on a more future-proof platform that I can do my own backups on? Another thing is the marketplace needs to be integrated, and not just a separate app. Also, as I've said before, they need more competitive pricing. I can more often than not get the SAME GAME, with the same GFWL integration for less on Steam than direct from MS.
To me, Steam is _primarily_ just a store. I don't have too many games that are Steamworks only, but what I do have work more than well enough that I don't think about it. I'll continue to buy GFW/GFWL games, but it's probably going to be through Steam and retail.
In the end MS, you need to do a few things:
1. More competitive pricing:Steam and even retail pwns you at this
2. Bring Inde/XBLA/XNA games to the PC: its been years since Gates showed off Uno
3. Offline game saving/save access: you allow it on the 360, have it for the PC. Its a mess that shouldn't be
4. Fix your technical issues: the GTA4 DLC is a perfect example, although maybe some of it its Rockstar's fault, but no matter where I buy a DLC for a game from, it should work properly with the core game
5. MORE GAMES: why the hell didn't you release Halo 2 PC on GFWL via your DD service when you killed the Xbox 1 part of Live? Your selection looks barren on the marketplace app because so many of the games you have, even if they are just plain GFW games, aren't there
EDIT: I never noticed the game save issue because I'm always online, maybe if I did, I've not been so.............*I don't wanna use the word 'happy' but I didn't have technical issues* with it.
I liked GFW/GFWL from the get go because it brought a lot of console-like simplicity to PC games. The main issue people had with GFWL before they even knew anything about it was the typical MS hate, coupled with the requirement to pay for Gold service. To me, it didn't matter, as a 360 owner, I was already a Gold member. Thankfully, they've fixed that, I agree it was a bad idea. But 9/10 I was only interested in console ports, GTA4, DMC4, SF4, BioShock, etc. Games I play with my 360 controller on my HTPC because its better hardware than my 360, but I still get achievements and such. Its like having a 360 on crack, with 1080P+ resolution, 3D support, and all that.
I've never, however, bought a GFW/GFWL game from their marketplace app. Only retail, or from Steam. I did this because the GFW marketplace never had competitive pricing, not just to Steam, but even to retail. I didn't know about the technical issues mentioned here, so I'm glad I never did buy direct from MS. Plus, I can directly launch said games without Steam, even if I buy them FROM Steam just by launching the related .exe, so there's no reason to run Steam on those games.
I do have one or two issues with GFW that I've had for a while now. First off..........where the hell are all the Inde/XBLA games? Do you know how many of them I'd have double dipped on just to have on a more future-proof platform that I can do my own backups on? Another thing is the marketplace needs to be integrated, and not just a separate app. Also, as I've said before, they need more competitive pricing. I can more often than not get the SAME GAME, with the same GFWL integration for less on Steam than direct from MS.
To me, Steam is _primarily_ just a store. I don't have too many games that are Steamworks only, but what I do have work more than well enough that I don't think about it. I'll continue to buy GFW/GFWL games, but it's probably going to be through Steam and retail.
In the end MS, you need to do a few things:
1. More competitive pricing:Steam and even retail pwns you at this
2. Bring Inde/XBLA/XNA games to the PC: its been years since Gates showed off Uno
3. Offline game saving/save access: you allow it on the 360, have it for the PC. Its a mess that shouldn't be
4. Fix your technical issues: the GTA4 DLC is a perfect example, although maybe some of it its Rockstar's fault, but no matter where I buy a DLC for a game from, it should work properly with the core game
5. MORE GAMES: why the hell didn't you release Halo 2 PC on GFWL via your DD service when you killed the Xbox 1 part of Live? Your selection looks barren on the marketplace app because so many of the games you have, even if they are just plain GFW games, aren't there
EDIT: I never noticed the game save issue because I'm always online, maybe if I did, I've not been so.............*I don't wanna use the word 'happy' but I didn't have technical issues* with it.
A couple of reasons.
A) Locked Save - This is an absolute annoyance and forcing me to be online in order to save my game is just intrusive.
B) Terrible method of patching - I installed RE5 on my computer. It did an update that booted me out of my game. Okay, that didn't bug me that much. So I boot the game up again and it finds another patch that again forces me to boot out of my game. Couldn't it have just updated it all in one go? Why make me boot up the game twice to install patches?
C) The program itself is rather bloated, especially compared to say Steam.
A) Locked Save - This is an absolute annoyance and forcing me to be online in order to save my game is just intrusive.
B) Terrible method of patching - I installed RE5 on my computer. It did an update that booted me out of my game. Okay, that didn't bug me that much. So I boot the game up again and it finds another patch that again forces me to boot out of my game. Couldn't it have just updated it all in one go? Why make me boot up the game twice to install patches?
C) The program itself is rather bloated, especially compared to say Steam.
I tried to think of things I disliked about GFWL, things to improve GFWL, but like others in this thread I kept asking myself the more important question, what are the benefits for me (PC onlyand no achievement whore) of using GFWL and I could not come up with one. (over the other available options)
The only way and probably the cheapest, to improve GFWL --> buy Valve, rest not worth the time and effort anymore, steam is just to far ahead.
The only way and probably the cheapest, to improve GFWL --> buy Valve, rest not worth the time and effort anymore, steam is just to far ahead.
All these (extremely valid) complaints aside, the main reason nobody takes GFW Live on PC seriously is that Microsoft doesn't take it seriously. We know this simply because Microsoft basically doesn't make PC games any more.
Where are Halo 3, ODST, and Reach? Where are Gears of War 2 and 3? Where is Alan Wake? Where are the XBLA games? Fable 2 isn't there and Fable 3 PC is "delayed"
. They don't take PC gaming seriously, so of course they don't take their PC gaming client and service seriously.
Do you think anyone would care about Steam if Valve didn't release their games on the platform? No. Because first of all there would be no reason to download the software in the first place, and secondly the reason that Steam is so great is that Valve has HAD to support and improve Steam in order to support and improve the games that use Steam. Valve puts out great games time and time again that REQUIRE Steam.
Basically, we can talk all we want about how to improve the client, but until there are actually some killer app exclusive games on the GFW Live service, from Microsoft, no one is ever EVER going to care. Period.
Where are Halo 3, ODST, and Reach? Where are Gears of War 2 and 3? Where is Alan Wake? Where are the XBLA games? Fable 2 isn't there and Fable 3 PC is "delayed"
aka not going to come out
Do you think anyone would care about Steam if Valve didn't release their games on the platform? No. Because first of all there would be no reason to download the software in the first place, and secondly the reason that Steam is so great is that Valve has HAD to support and improve Steam in order to support and improve the games that use Steam. Valve puts out great games time and time again that REQUIRE Steam.
Basically, we can talk all we want about how to improve the client, but until there are actually some killer app exclusive games on the GFW Live service, from Microsoft, no one is ever EVER going to care. Period.
My only experience with GFWL was SFIV, and here are my two biggest gripes with it:
1) REGION LOCKED ONLINE PLAY:
Being Brazilian, I was promptly denied online play because "Live isn't available on your country" after trying to log-in with my newly created gamertag. MS actually has a Brazilian Live page, which apparently served no purpose other than allowing me to create useless online-barred gamertags.
I was considering returning the game when I started fiddling with the URL at Live's website and got myself into the US page, which allowed me to create an US gamertag and fully use the product I paid money for. Ridiculous.
2) THE UI ONLY SUPPORTS 360 GAMEPADS
I know MS wants to sell their overpriced accessories and would love all gamepad makers to pay their outrageous XInput licensing fees. But would it hurt too much to allow the UI to be navigated using a DirectInput device? My USB Saturn pads are far better and cheaper than 360 pads for SFIV, and it sucks having to reach for they mouse or keyboard to navigate the bloated UI when I needs to send/reply to messages/invites.
1) REGION LOCKED ONLINE PLAY:
Being Brazilian, I was promptly denied online play because "Live isn't available on your country" after trying to log-in with my newly created gamertag. MS actually has a Brazilian Live page, which apparently served no purpose other than allowing me to create useless online-barred gamertags.
I was considering returning the game when I started fiddling with the URL at Live's website and got myself into the US page, which allowed me to create an US gamertag and fully use the product I paid money for. Ridiculous.
2) THE UI ONLY SUPPORTS 360 GAMEPADS
I know MS wants to sell their overpriced accessories and would love all gamepad makers to pay their outrageous XInput licensing fees. But would it hurt too much to allow the UI to be navigated using a DirectInput device? My USB Saturn pads are far better and cheaper than 360 pads for SFIV, and it sucks having to reach for they mouse or keyboard to navigate the bloated UI when I needs to send/reply to messages/invites.
Metal Gear?!
Member
So to cover something that isn't well-trod ground in this thread:
1) Early on they screwed publishers and developers by letting pirates play ALL GFWL games online with only one valid key...
2) Now they're screwing customers by binding keys to gamertags, which prevents resale without the benefits that other DD services give you in exchange for doing so (unlimited downloads)
I think that sums up just how incompetent MS has been this whole time.
1) Early on they screwed publishers and developers by letting pirates play ALL GFWL games online with only one valid key...
2) Now they're screwing customers by binding keys to gamertags, which prevents resale without the benefits that other DD services give you in exchange for doing so (unlimited downloads)
I think that sums up just how incompetent MS has been this whole time.
Zaraki_Kenpachi
Member
You want to know why your piece of shit software sucks Microsoft? It's because when I buy a game from you like Blacklight: Tango Down and go to play it, I physically can't. I've tried downloading my profile and updating the client 6 TIMES and I still can't play it. It doesn't work using the autoupdater in the game, fine. I try to download the client from your website and install that. Run Blacklight, download profile AGAIN and still says it's out of date. Why is the client on your own fucking website not the most up to date installer apparently? So I've now bought a game I can never play because your system is complete and utter shit. Never again.
DodgyGeezerFella
Member
Edit - Woops meant as new thread.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
this thread is kinda funny.
It can be summed up in "If MS wants to succeed and compete against steamworks, MS should just buy valve"...
It can be summed up in "If MS wants to succeed and compete against steamworks, MS should just buy valve"...
Lasthope106
Member
GFWL is the only reason why I haven't bought Dawn of War II and its expansion. The idea of eventually hitting an activation limit, and having no clear way to contact Microsoft to resolve that issue if it ever arises, terrifies me.
Fallout 3 was the only GFWL game that I've played for an extended period of time, and the patching mechanism was horrendous. I don't know if that aspect of the system has been improved, but that was one of the worst experiences I've encountered in pc gaming.
Also, the regional restrictions have to go. GFWL is not part of the Xbox 360, so it shouldn't be constrained to something as stupid as not letting people play in countries where the Xbox 360 is not "officially" supported.
If Microsoft wants to compete in this space, then the company needs to start investing some serious money into new "hardcore" pc games. While a new AOE is nice, it doesn't go far enough. GFWL needs titles that rival HL2, CS, TF2 that are exclusive to the service.
Fallout 3 was the only GFWL game that I've played for an extended period of time, and the patching mechanism was horrendous. I don't know if that aspect of the system has been improved, but that was one of the worst experiences I've encountered in pc gaming.
Also, the regional restrictions have to go. GFWL is not part of the Xbox 360, so it shouldn't be constrained to something as stupid as not letting people play in countries where the Xbox 360 is not "officially" supported.
If Microsoft wants to compete in this space, then the company needs to start investing some serious money into new "hardcore" pc games. While a new AOE is nice, it doesn't go far enough. GFWL needs titles that rival HL2, CS, TF2 that are exclusive to the service.
speculawyer said:
Yup. It's going to take something amazing to get me to dump Steam and to be honest I just don't see MS pulling it off. Not only that but because of their past history they are going to need to go above and beyond what any other competitor would have to do to trump Steam. The entire idea behind systems like this are so deeply rooted in trust and long term relationships that MS needs to create something that is so obviously better and keep it running and improving for years before I would ever have faith in it.
This might sound like a silly comparison, but this is like some ex girlfriend that treated you like crap asking what she has to get you to do to leave your wife of 5 years. Sorry, but that's not how relationships work. You don't "upgrade" when you have something that you enjoy and are comfortable with. Steam works, I'm not afraid to say I love it. I'm not leaving it unless it kills the dog, burns the house down and sleeps with the neighbor.
SirPenguin
Member
I hate GFWL because it's not Steam. I want one platform for my non-retail PC gaming experience for convenience and general peace of mind.
Metalic Sand
who is Emo-Beas?
Since this was bumped they need to atleast add most of the features from the 360 like Party chat.
Blows my mind they STILL havent added party chat.
Blows my mind they STILL havent added party chat.
FieryBalrog
Member
Zaraki_Kenpachi said:
Horror stories like these... it sometimes seems like Microsoft crippled GFWL on purpose to make XBL look good. :lol
pieatorium
Member
make it something i want to log into not something i have to log into
IrishNinja
Member
to play devil's advocate here (big fan of steam these days): why does GFWL have to fight Steam for the crown? if one of the PC platform's many strengths is open-endedness, and we can agree having options past Steam like GOG, D2D etc available are all good things, why is one more kid on the block a bad one?
let MS do there thing. if they behave like last time - expect PC gamers to pay for online/DLC/etc like 360 users do - they'll find the exact same results from their investment (irrelvance). this market isn't the horse armor one decried in so many other threads, MS gets (rightfully so) very little slack for shitting on the PC by not putting up their 360 efforts or new ones much anymore, if they want to fight their way back to compete, that sounds like an environment where the consumer only stands to benefit (think of sony's hubris and how fast they've had to play catch-up to make PSN functional - this wouldn't have happened if XBL didn't force their hand; likewise with Steam kicking the shit out of GFWL, etc). i completely respect the "show & prove" logic most everybody's taking here, but as brain_stew/others have pointed out: they're gonna try again anyway, what's the harm here if the worst they can do is fuck it up and go right back to where they've been?
let MS do there thing. if they behave like last time - expect PC gamers to pay for online/DLC/etc like 360 users do - they'll find the exact same results from their investment (irrelvance). this market isn't the horse armor one decried in so many other threads, MS gets (rightfully so) very little slack for shitting on the PC by not putting up their 360 efforts or new ones much anymore, if they want to fight their way back to compete, that sounds like an environment where the consumer only stands to benefit (think of sony's hubris and how fast they've had to play catch-up to make PSN functional - this wouldn't have happened if XBL didn't force their hand; likewise with Steam kicking the shit out of GFWL, etc). i completely respect the "show & prove" logic most everybody's taking here, but as brain_stew/others have pointed out: they're gonna try again anyway, what's the harm here if the worst they can do is fuck it up and go right back to where they've been?
Dynoro said:
Most of those are legit complaints. The last one is something all DD services do. As for the client, it's no worse then Steam to me.
As for how to fix, MSFT should just the shitcan concept and work with Stardock. Would be best for everyone involved. Impulse is every bit as good as Steam client-wise, just needs more stuff, and MSFT would provide that.
Demigod Mac
Member
Most annoying thing ever was trying to get Batman AA to work. Bought it from Steam. Booted the game up.
* I have to login to GFWL every time the game launches.
* I have to reboot the game every time GFWL patches itself.
* I have to input the serial key every time I update.
^ and I have to follow ALL of these steps 4 times over before I can actually play the game. Why did it ask for my serial key and login 4 times, and why couldn't it have downloaded just one big patch instead of 4?
* I have to login to GFWL every time the game launches.
* I have to reboot the game every time GFWL patches itself.
* I have to input the serial key every time I update.
^ and I have to follow ALL of these steps 4 times over before I can actually play the game. Why did it ask for my serial key and login 4 times, and why couldn't it have downloaded just one big patch instead of 4?
Snapshot King
Member
Hasn't been mentioned and I'm kind of shocked it hasn't. Maybe the term title update fools people on the Xbox side (and I have a problem with it there too) but if you're going to patch, give me the option to look at the fucking patch notes. Oh, there ARE no patch notes? Great.
On steam, theres the updates properties button. Failing that (and it does happen sometimes, most noticeably with GFWL games) I can also hit the news button which will almost always take me to a kotaku article that has the patch changes or comments from the developers on the patch.
Also unmentioned, I have a 360 controller I use for some PC games. If I'm playing a GFWL game, especially one thats also on 360, why can't I plug my 360 mic into my controller and have it work? That's bullshit. Not only does GFWL fail feature parity with Steam, it fails it with its own service on the Xbox, despite having easy methods for making it vastly superior to the console live experience.
On steam, theres the updates properties button. Failing that (and it does happen sometimes, most noticeably with GFWL games) I can also hit the news button which will almost always take me to a kotaku article that has the patch changes or comments from the developers on the patch.
Also unmentioned, I have a 360 controller I use for some PC games. If I'm playing a GFWL game, especially one thats also on 360, why can't I plug my 360 mic into my controller and have it work? That's bullshit. Not only does GFWL fail feature parity with Steam, it fails it with its own service on the Xbox, despite having easy methods for making it vastly superior to the console live experience.
So today I decided that I wanted Halo for PC. It's still like $10 secondhand, so I figured I'd look at GFWL and see how much it was there. It wasn't -- they don't sell Halo on GFWL. But on their games list they have Halo 2, so I click instead because I might as well. There's no price listed on the page, so I click
to see. It forwards me to
Seriously. So I try to open GFWL and see if there's a discrepancy, or maybe if I could download Fear 2, which I bought last week
There's a problem. I try all possible combos of email and password, so I click the "Click here to resolve" link in the client message and it opens Internet Explorer to this.
what the fucking fuck dickshit are they playing at here? this is bullshit
Seriously. So I try to open GFWL and see if there's a discrepancy, or maybe if I could download Fear 2, which I bought last week
There's a problem. I try all possible combos of email and password, so I click the "Click here to resolve" link in the client message and it opens Internet Explorer to this.
what the fucking fuck dickshit are they playing at here? this is bullshit
Mr Nightman
Banned
I really find no problems with gfwl, other than the stupid patching system, and lack of party chat support. I want to talk to more than one xbox friend while I'm on my pc :lol
brain_stew
Member
Snapshot King said:
You can. You probably don't have it configured through the Windows "Sound" configuration tool but it does work and can be used in more than just GFWL titles.
brain_stew
Member
John said:
Its an error that has been caused because of the new Xbox.com site redesign and the new Xbox Live subscriber agreement, but since the client hasn't been updated since it sends you to no where. You need to login through Xbox.com and update your subscriber agreement and it'll work. I ran into the same problem and I'm going to bring up the issue directly.
It was very poorly handled.
I'll say.brain_stew said:
I ran into the same thing just now, trying to see, for once, if anything was worth buying in the GFW Live store. (Bing rewards let you get MS points, apparently). Same thing. Error message leading to a nonexistent page. I had to search the error code (only four results found on Bing) to find the GFW Live forums which tells me I have to sign in to Xbox.com to fix this.
First of all, all you have to do is let me sign in and pop up a screen with updated TOS stuff as soon as I do. Then just lemme click yes. Plenty of programs do this. Second, the fact that the GFW Live program sends me to a website that no longer exists, and that I have to go to XBOX.com in order to fix the issue, shows EXACTLY where Microsoft's priorities lie. I don't even OWN an Xbox, why the FUCK do I have to go to the Xbox website to fix a problem with my Games for Windows program? You don't even care enough about the GFWL platform to let me access my account stuff from there? You don't even have a damn functional website for this platform you care so much about?
You know what? Fuck Microsoft. All this bullshit they trot out every few months about how much they REALLY TRULY CARE about the PC market is utter nonsense. This whole thread is pointless. GFW Live is never NOT going to suck, and it's NEVER going to be improved, for the simple reason that Microsoft is never EVER again going to put ANY emphasis on the gaming platform where you don't have to pay 60 bucks a year to be a part of it. END of story.
Snapshot King said:
Personally I don't think its possible for them to "catch" steam.... so why try to do the same thing?
I have said this before but I think their one play in this space would be to bring the entire xbox360 to the windows pc.... ms has been on a virtualization kick recently so virtualize xbox 360 on the pc (and do a requirement check to ensure your pc is fast enough to play xbox games). It would reduce the visual quality on most games but its something that could work on the pc if you could have the seamless console experience on the pc. I know I would purchase more games if I knew I could play it on any computer as well as my xbox.
O.DOGG
Member
Yesterday I lost my Batman: Arkham Asylum save game - about 8 hours of gameplay worth. I was playing the challenges, and I guess the game wasn't connected to GFWL or whatever. I wanted to continue the single-player game after that, and it started me at the beginning. I don't know what happened but FUCK GFWL! I hope Relic don't go back to using it for their upcoming games.
Warm Machine
Member
brain_stew said:
I wonder what testing against this stuff is like? Do you think it is a case of trying every piece of software against the new infrastructure or simply testing it once to catch the issue?
Raging Spaniard
If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
I dont have any problems with it other than "its not steam" and I dont want to have too many programs I need to access to play PC games.
GFWL made my Steam version of Lost Planet 2 incompatible with other (I assume retail) versions and they still haven't fixed it. So multiplayer is a 50/50 chance of getting a match I can't play. And they still haven't fixed it. If they have, they are awful at giving me a heads up. It sucks.
Snapshot King
Member
brain_stew said:
Oh! Thanks. The patch thing is still a larger concern for me. But thanks.
No patches notes are bullshit.
ShockingAlberto
Member
So, let's take a game using GFWL and list all the ways it annoys me.
I launch Dead Rising 2 and sign in. Whoops! My girlfriend watching Netflix in the other room on my Gold account just got signed out. No biggie, she signs in to her account (which seemed unnecessary because I'm on auto-sign in there) and I can play my game and she can watch her movie.
But as of right now, before I have even started a game, GFWL has already made the experience worse for everyone in the house.
So I start getting some achievements, but I can't dare to check which ones I'm missing, since GFWL has the weird habit of totally disabling my gamertag's ability to connect to Live if I spend too much time on the Home menu. It has this effect over both PC and 360, apparently, so minimizing my time in there is for the best.
I've written that off as a quirk.
So I'm mowing down zombies and my friend, via Steam, asks me if I want to join a co-op game he's hosting. Sure! I close my Steam overlay, back out to the front menu, and wait for the in-game menu to say he's ready to host. While we wait, I bring the overlay back up, hit the call button in the window with my friend, and we use Steam voice chat to communicate. You see, back when we were playing RE5 together, we discovered that GFWL voice chat simply will not recognize our differently branded microphones.
While playing, my friend mentions the new Psychopath DLC for Dead Rising 2. It sounds interesting! Maybe I should look in to it. Except that trying to find and buy DLC using Games for Windows Live is, quite possibly, the most unintuitive and difficult menu management this side of Nintendo. So I look at the DLC, and it's expensive. Really expensive. Too much to warrant from what I'm getting from it.
Then I remember, oh yeah, I was getting some achievements in Dead Rising 2! As I open the Steam window to select the game, I pass by the store page which shows several games for the same price or less than the DLC GFWL is offering. Ho-hum.
So I play for a little while, get my achievements, and close the game. Because my friends just invited me to play Left 4 Dead 2 and I can hop right in to that game easily.
The lesson learned here is that the best thing GFWL allows is a contribution to a score that ultimately means nothing. And that's hilarious.
I launch Dead Rising 2 and sign in. Whoops! My girlfriend watching Netflix in the other room on my Gold account just got signed out. No biggie, she signs in to her account (which seemed unnecessary because I'm on auto-sign in there) and I can play my game and she can watch her movie.
But as of right now, before I have even started a game, GFWL has already made the experience worse for everyone in the house.
So I start getting some achievements, but I can't dare to check which ones I'm missing, since GFWL has the weird habit of totally disabling my gamertag's ability to connect to Live if I spend too much time on the Home menu. It has this effect over both PC and 360, apparently, so minimizing my time in there is for the best.
I've written that off as a quirk.
So I'm mowing down zombies and my friend, via Steam, asks me if I want to join a co-op game he's hosting. Sure! I close my Steam overlay, back out to the front menu, and wait for the in-game menu to say he's ready to host. While we wait, I bring the overlay back up, hit the call button in the window with my friend, and we use Steam voice chat to communicate. You see, back when we were playing RE5 together, we discovered that GFWL voice chat simply will not recognize our differently branded microphones.
While playing, my friend mentions the new Psychopath DLC for Dead Rising 2. It sounds interesting! Maybe I should look in to it. Except that trying to find and buy DLC using Games for Windows Live is, quite possibly, the most unintuitive and difficult menu management this side of Nintendo. So I look at the DLC, and it's expensive. Really expensive. Too much to warrant from what I'm getting from it.
Then I remember, oh yeah, I was getting some achievements in Dead Rising 2! As I open the Steam window to select the game, I pass by the store page which shows several games for the same price or less than the DLC GFWL is offering. Ho-hum.
So I play for a little while, get my achievements, and close the game. Because my friends just invited me to play Left 4 Dead 2 and I can hop right in to that game easily.
The lesson learned here is that the best thing GFWL allows is a contribution to a score that ultimately means nothing. And that's hilarious.
CecilRousso
Member
There is a really simple answer to the question "why does it suck", and it is related to the answer to another question - What does GfWL bring to the ones that are satisfied with Steam?
Microsoft has to consider that we are many that are very satisfied with Steam. We buy the games through Steam because we like the service, and want to have a majority of our games in one place. Right now, GfWL only bring this:
1. Limited activations.
2. Restrictions to certain regions.
3. Almost everytime it also comes to another layer of DRM, like SecuRom.
4. Restrictions to patches.
5. And separate lists for achievements.
The benefits?
1. Gamescore.
And there are very few PC gamers who care about that gamerscore.
Right now, you can get the ones that don´t like Steam. Perhaps the ones that doesn´t care which service they get their games for. But the Steam supporters, what do you bring to them?
Microsoft has to consider that we are many that are very satisfied with Steam. We buy the games through Steam because we like the service, and want to have a majority of our games in one place. Right now, GfWL only bring this:
1. Limited activations.
2. Restrictions to certain regions.
3. Almost everytime it also comes to another layer of DRM, like SecuRom.
4. Restrictions to patches.
5. And separate lists for achievements.
The benefits?
1. Gamescore.
And there are very few PC gamers who care about that gamerscore.
Right now, you can get the ones that don´t like Steam. Perhaps the ones that doesn´t care which service they get their games for. But the Steam supporters, what do you bring to them?
ClovingWestbrook
Banned
CecilRousso said:
Nothing except exclusives which Microsoft couldn't care less about bringing. They're keeping their big exclusives for the XBox brand. They may try and release a few new ones and many Steam users will buy them but they won't use GFWL as the digital game purchase store.
bonesmccoy
Banned
MS doesn't know what it wants GFWL to be. Not now, and not when it was launched. So much of it always felt ephemeral and incomplete; why would PC gamers want to have anything to do with it?
brain_stew
Member
CecilRousso said:
The DRM issue at least in now finally sorted, and GFWL actually offers better DRM solutions than Steam now. Games don't have to be tied to a single account now, I guess you missed the recent thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=412340
Any titles that shipped with Securom or similar purely did so at the publishers discretion, it was never a GFWL requirement.
- Status