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Hero · Feb 10, 2012

Red Steel 2 probably would've done better if it was named something different to separate it from Red Steel, which despite being a million seller had some negative feelings.

I like the fact that people are ignoring how both Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition and Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles sold above Capcom expectations and instead of trying to put RE5 on it they made Darkside Chronicles and then figured a shitty port of Dead Rising was going to put up numbers when it was a fucking 360 launch title.

Celine · Feb 10, 2012

Mr. Patch said:
There is one thing that I really don't get about this...

Why did 3rd parties choose to go with the Wii ____ route instead of going the Mario or Zelda route?

The first route was the one fresh and ready for copycat to gain some bucks, the entry barrier were notably lower than those needed to compete with Mario and Zelda.

Mario and Zelda dominate consolidated (sub)genre where these products sell million copies while copycat can't reach as much despite the effort required to compete ( think how much Beyond Good or Evil or Okami sold compared to twilight Princess ).

RukusProvider · Feb 10, 2012

Amir0x said:
man seriously fuck Call of Duty series already

Why? If the install base for CoD is only looking for CoD for their gaming needs, then it's not like they're cannibalizing sales from other games.

That's like "FUCK COKE" because Fanta isn't selling as much.

outunderthestars · Feb 10, 2012

jamesinclair said:
The price drops came too late.

I never bought a PS3 or X360 because they cost way too much.

And then 3 years later they STILL cost too much.

And then 6 years later they STILL cost too much.

Should have been $99 by year 3, aka, like last gen.

Now, they can drop to $99 and frankly, I wont give a shit. The ship sailed, its old news. Yawn, etc.

If you can't afford a $200 system, you probably can't afford many games.

So how does it benefit Sony or MS to take a loss in order to get the hardware within the price range of people who are unable/unwilling to spend money on new software?

ZoddGutts · Feb 10, 2012

Carl said:
Sony's PR

"Hey guys, Vita comes out next month"

And I'll do as well as it did in Japan.

watership · Feb 10, 2012

SolarPowered said:
You retorted by making assumptions of your own. They were even worse to boot.

congrats

Bookmarked for later

TheNatural · Feb 10, 2012

Nintendo notes that Super Mario 3D Land has now sold 1.7 million copies and Mario Kart 7 has now sold 1.3 million. The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword has also sold 1.3 million. On the hardware side, the 3DS has now sold more than 4.25 million units in the United States.

So using voodoo math, how much does that mean in January?

Tookay · Feb 10, 2012

Narpas Sword0 said:
See, this is the point of your post where the cognitive dissonance emerges. Who says that third parties cultivated this? Who spearheaded advertising with this console? Who launched Wii Sports, Wii Play, Wario Ware, Wii Fit, Wii Music?

Who set the tone for this console?

You seem to be forgetting that while Nintendo had its Wii ____ multiplayer focus, it also released hardcore, single-player oriented experiences as well, which coincidentally sold well. Third-parties never gave that side of the business a chance, instead sending their worst teams to make cheap shovelware. The times they did something more than that, it was test games or niche games, after they already built up an environment full of shovelware. Most of the time these franchises had no recognizable IP-backing, or the ones that did were changed into different genres completely, negating the brand power.

You say that third-parties "gave up" with traditional games on Wii when they failed, but my argument is that they gave up before then, because they never brought traditional games there in the first place. I mean, what are you using as examples of traditional gaming failures on the Wii? Mad World? No More Heroes? Umbrella/Darkside Chronicles? Third-parties bet on the HD consoles and turned the Wii's third-party wasteland into a self-fulfilling prophecy from day one, thinking it was just a fad.

Sammy Samusu · Feb 10, 2012

ItWasMeantToBe19 said:
Next month has a lot of software that would be really interesting to see the performance of:

FFXIII-2
The Darkness 2
Soul Calibur V
Kingdoms of Amalur
Twisted Metal
Resident Evil Revelaitons
Asura's Wrath
Twisted Metal
Vita games
MGS3D
Syndicate
UFC

Hopefully there's more leaks than usual. Lot of mid-tier titles that could go to respectability or maybe high level numbers or just be a complete bomba.

Shit, we won't get numbers for Revelations. Too many games, plus multi-platform chart, and Just Dance, Skyrim, Call of Duty...

:[

Kazerei · Feb 10, 2012

TheNatural said:
Nintendo notes that Super Mario 3D Land has now sold 1.7 million copies and Mario Kart 7 has now sold 1.3 million. The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword has also sold 1.3 million. On the hardware side, the 3DS has now sold more than 4.25 million units in the United States.

So using voodoo math, how much does that mean in January?

Last month they said "3DS has sold over 4 million" ... so about 250k? EDIT: link here

HylianTom · Feb 10, 2012

Hero said:
Red Steel 2 probably would've done better if it was named something different to separate it from Red Steel, which despite being a million seller had some negative feelings.

I like the fact that people are ignoring how both Resident Evil 4 Wii Edition and Resident Evil Umbrella Chronicles sold above Capcom expectations and instead of trying to put RE5 on it they made Darkside Chronicles and then figured a shitty port of Dead Rising was going to put up numbers when it was a fucking 360 launch title.

Hey.. any valid-sounding excuse. Nintendo threatens 'em.

I wonder if Sony leaving the business would result in Nintendo finally getting some decent third party support?

jamesinclair · Feb 10, 2012

outunderthestars said:
If you can't afford a $200 system, you probably can't afford many games.

Yoona said:
He could have had a PS3 or 360 a while ago if he saved $20 each paycheck. Seriously, $250 is not a high price at all for a PS3 slim 160GB.

Who said anything about affording?

I can spend money on a $1,000 golden turd. Just because I choose not to buy it doesnt mean I cant afford it.

Some people actually make financial decisions, and dont just run around dropping $599 on a whim because the last paycheck came in higher than usual.

ItWasMeantToBe19 · Feb 10, 2012

TheNatural said:
Nintendo notes that Super Mario 3D Land has now sold 1.7 million copies and Mario Kart 7 has now sold 1.3 million. The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword has also sold 1.3 million. On the hardware side, the 3DS has now sold more than 4.25 million units in the United States.

So using voodoo math, how much does that mean in January?

2012 prediction thread says the 3DS was at 4.1m at the end of 2011, so maybe 150k, not sure.

outunderthestars · Feb 10, 2012

Sammy Samusu said:
Shit, we won't get numbers for Revelations. Too many games, plus multi-platform chart, and Just Dance, Skyrim, Call of Duty...

:[

I don't think revelations would have charted with no new releases in the month.

Amir0x · Feb 10, 2012

outunderthestars said:
If you can't afford a $200 system, you probably can't afford many games.

So how does it benefit Sony or MS to take a loss in order to get the hardware within the price range of people who are unable/unwilling to spend money on new software?

And anyway, every generation prices are going to go up a little over time. Inflation and whatnot. You cannot simply expect to cover a decade and the prices for the hardware to continue to be the same as the previous generation. Due to the recession and recovery, I expect that Xbox 720, PS4 and Wii U will be in line with last generation's price, because they can't afford to hurt anyone's wallets, but if we want our systems to have competent tehcnology, there is SOME price for that. Maybe jamesinclair would be happy with Wii level technology forever, or maybe just Xbox 360 technology forever... who knows. But I'm not, and I'm willing to pay a slight premium each gen over the previous gen for that ability to have our systems more packed with goodies.

But of course, judging from the way things are going, Xbox 720 will be a $399.99 Kinect 2 abomination with a series of dance games, abominable mini-game compilations and lag-filled 'art games' as representation + Halo 16 homg, and PS4 will not exist because Sony will be out of business and Wii U is going to be the final bastion of hardcore console gaming outside of PC, so the world is just fucked at this point.

SapientWolf · Feb 10, 2012

jamesinclair said:
Who said anything about affording?

I can spend money on a $1,000 golden turd. Just because I choose not to buy it doesnt mean I cant afford it.

A 360 is worth $200 for XBLA alone.

antonz · Feb 10, 2012

TheNatural said:
Nintendo notes that Super Mario 3D Land has now sold 1.7 million copies and Mario Kart 7 has now sold 1.3 million. The Legend of Zelda: Skyward Sword has also sold 1.3 million. On the hardware side, the 3DS has now sold more than 4.25 million units in the United States.

So using voodoo math, how much does that mean in January?

Yeah I would say at a minimum 250K

Narpas Sword0 · Feb 10, 2012

Tookay said:
You seem to be forgetting that while Nintendo had its Wii ____ multiplayer focus, it also released hardcore, single-player oriented experiences as well, which coincidentally sold well. Third-parties never gave that side of the business a chance, instead sending their worst teams to make cheap shovelware. The times they did something more than that, it was test games or niche games, after they already built up an environment full of shovelware. Most of the time these franchises had no recognizable IP-backing, or the ones that did were changed into different genres completely, negating the brand power.

You say that third-parties "gave up" with traditional games on Wii when they failed, but my argument is that they gave up before then, because they never brought traditional games there in the first place. I mean, what are you using as examples of traditional gaming failures on the Wii? Mad World? No More Heroes? Umbrella/Darkside Chronicles?

I just wish third parties had come out with hardcore launch window games that were ground-up designed for the Wii, like Twilight Princess and Super Paper Mario. I don't know where Capcom got the idea of porting up a Wii game like RE4.

Nintendo definitely showed these guys that a big investment was necessary with the launch of Wario Ware and Wii Play. Who knows where they got the idea of Carnival Games.

outunderthestars · Feb 10, 2012

Amir0x said:
And anyway, every generation prices are going to go up a little over time. Inflation and whatnot. You cannot simply expect to cover a decade and the prices for the hardware to continue to be the same as the previous generation. Due to the recession and recovery, I expect that Xbox 720, PS4 and Wii U will be in line with last generation's price, because they can't afford to hurt anyone's wallets, but if we want our systems to have competent tehcnology, there is SOME price for that. Maybe jamesinclair would be happy with Wii level technology forever, or maybe just Xbox 360 technology forever... who knows. But I'm not, and I'm willing to pay a slight premium each gen over the previous gen for that ability to have our systems more packed with goodies.

But of course, judging from the way things are going, Xbox 720 will be a $399.99 Kinect 2 abomination with a series of dance games, abominable mini-game compilations and lag-filled 'art games' as representation + Halo 16 homg, and PS4 will not exist because Sony will be out of business and Wii U is going to be the final bastion of hardcore console gaming outside of PC, so the world is just fucked at this point.

That is a terrifying future.

jamesinclair · Feb 10, 2012

SapientWolf said:
A 360 is worth $200 for XBLA alone.

In 2009, one could argue that, 4 years after release.

Its been over 6 years. Even the PS2 was under $99 in that time frame. PS1 was at $49.

Amir0x said:
I expect that Xbox 720, PS4 and Wii U will be in line with last generation's price, because they can't afford to hurt anyone's wallets, but if we want our systems to have competent tehcnology, there is SOME price for that. Maybe jamesinclair would be happy with Wii level technology forever, or maybe just Xbox 360 technology forever... who knows. But I'm not, and I'm willing to pay a slight premium each gen over the previous gen for that ability to have our systems more packed with goodies.

Yes, lets ignore that inflation has not existed in the past 4 years and the technology has historically improved at a faster rate than inflation.

But thats exactly what I want. A wii forever. You know me oh so well.

GarthVaderUK · Feb 10, 2012

Amir0x said:
But of course, judging from the way things are going, Xbox 720 will be a $399.99 Kinect 2 abomination with a series of dance games, abominable mini-game compilations and lag-filled 'art games' as representation + Halo 16 homg, and PS4 will not exist because Sony will be out of business and Wii U is going to be the final bastion of hardcore console gaming outside of PC, so the world is just fucked at this point.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ

speculawyer · Feb 10, 2012

Dance games replaced plastic guitar games.

Paracelsus · Feb 10, 2012

GarthVaderUK said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlBiLNN1NhQ

I don't know, I found it to be pretty damn optimistic for being an Amirox's post.

He took Nintendo as last hardcore gaming bastion for granted.

Amir0x · Feb 10, 2012

RukusProvider said:
Why? If the install base for CoD is only looking for CoD for their gaming needs, then it's not like they're cannibalizing sales from other games.

That's like "FUCK COKE" because Fanta isn't selling as much.

Because Call of Duty represents at this point the problem with the cynical Activision future... less and less motivation to actually get in there and fundamentally retool the massive problems with the series at this point, no ambition, more scripted and mechanics that are simply ported enmasse to the next yearly iteration. It's the definition of consumer-driven dreck, hordes of zombie-like fanboys unable to criticize the series since the unquenchable drive to compete with their friends scores have been driven into their skulls like so many prozac pills. Call of Duty series has continually declined in quality since the first Modern Warfare, or at least they've remained stagnant... and there is no end in sight. Activision will continue to find horrible ways to milk the series and by extension the consumers, until one day they kill the genre entirely like they did the music genre.

I know some people love that crap, since you have the ability to play for 80 hours and simply have advantage over your buddies because they perk the shit out of their builds and thus gain unfair leverage over far more talented players (rewards time investment over actual skill, in other words), but I long for the old days of entering matches and simply going man-v-man on pure talent. None of this EXTRA DAMAGE DONE perk or whatever magical game breaking ability you gain each level to the detriment of balance.

outunderthestars said:
That is a terrifying future.

I look to PC as ever...

jamesinclair said:
Yes, lets ignore that inflation has not existed in the past 4 years and the technology has historically improved at a faster rate than inflation.

But thats exactly what I want. A wii forever. You know me oh so well.

Well first of all, inflation has existed since I don't live in fantasyland. And second of all, you think it is one bullet point vs. another. These consoles each gen dramatically increase in features across the board, far more R&D each gen, and leverage the ability to create platforms massively ahead of their ancestors. Taken as a whole, the stuff being offered would quite obviously NOT have improved at a faster rate of inflation. Last gen we were all playing basically offline systems with limited feature sets (even original Xbox did not compare feature-wise), now our systems are doing everything ever from Netflix to youtube to XBLA and PSN and WiiWare, to integrated online infrastructure, to dramatically more powerful technology. Taken as a whole, it is obvious why prices went up and why it has been slower to reduce. You're not going to see the same rate of price reduction every generation. It is even why they want to continue these gens longer, although market realities might not let some competitors do this.

A better argument would be wondering how much of this we actually need.

outunderthestars · Feb 10, 2012

jamesinclair said:
In 2009, one could argue that, 4 years after release.

Its been over 6 years. Even the PS2 was under $99 in that time frame. PS1 was at $49.

Yes, lets ignore that inflation has not existed in the past 4 years and the technology has historically improved at a faster rate than inflation.

But thats exactly what I want. A wii forever. You know me oh so well.

Well, you can always start playing facebook games. Those are free.

Yoona · Feb 10, 2012

jamesinclair said:
Who said anything about affording?

I can spend money on a $1,000 golden turd. Just because I choose not to buy it doesnt mean I cant afford it.

Some people actually make financial decisions, and dont just run around dropping $599 on a whim because the last paycheck came in higher than usual.

Then why bitch in every music game thread about PS2 not getting supported or shitty ports?

bigtroyjon · Feb 10, 2012

I didn't see this get posted

"We'll probably see an up month in February but you can never crystal-ball," said Xbox spokesman David Dennis.

Syphon Filter · Feb 10, 2012

AranhaHunter · Feb 10, 2012

Price drop imminent

Wii - $99
360 - $149 Arcade/$199 Elite
PS3 - $199/$249

Sony, in particular, would benefit from a real PSThree Slim line. The "slim" now is a behemoth and I won't consider trading my 80GB BC fat for it. Make a real slim on 22nm chips + n wi fi though and we're talking. For extra awesomeness, include some more RAM for OS use only so that the XMB and store are not so sluggish and I will probably trade it in day 1.

donny2112 · Feb 10, 2012

Narpas Sword0 said:
The collapse of third party support was based on the failure of numerous hardcore third party games in the beginning years of the console.

There is a reason why we are on Just Dance 3 but there is no more de Blob or Elebits or Red Steel.

*mind boggles*

So I guess the several core title successes on Wii don't count. Where's the list!?! It's 2007 again!

szaromir · Feb 10, 2012

What a depressing month - extremely low and no new games in top 10. :/ Congrats to MS for strengthening the grip over American market, 49% marketshare is massive.

Little Green Yoda · Feb 10, 2012

Narpas Sword0 said:
I just wish third parties had come out with hardcore launch window games that were ground-up designed for the Wii, like Twilight Princess and Super Paper Mario. I don't know where Capcom got the idea of porting up a Wii game like RE4.

Nintendo definitely showed these guys that a big investment was necessary with the launch of Wario Ware and Wii Play. Who knows where they got the idea of Carnival Games.

Yeah, because porting a last gen game that was already on two platforms is such a show of support. Most people don't mind the RE4 port - they mind that Capcom followed that up with onrail shooters even though RE4Wii sold decently well.

If 3rd parties were trying to emulate Wii Play's success, they didn't understand why it sold as much as it did.

Tookay · Feb 10, 2012

Narpas Sword0 said:
I just wish third parties had come out with hardcore launch window games that were ground-up designed for the Wii, like Twilight Princess and Super Paper Mario. I don't know where Capcom got the idea of porting up a Wii game like RE4.

Nintendo definitely showed these guys that a big investment was necessary with the launch of Wario Ware and Wii Play. Who knows where they got the idea of Carnival Games.

Yes because the port of Twilight Princess - a game naturally ported when its intended system was by all means dead and another system logically existed to port to - is completely analogous to RE4 and invalidates the existence of dozens of other Nintendo games that were made from the ground up for the Wii. You're right. It also spurred on every lazy effort made by every other developer on the Wii. Too true.

(Thanks for bringing up RE4, though, which proved that traditional games could sell on the Wii. But Capcom gave us more tests to pass instead. Who has the cognitive dissonance again?)

[Clark Gable] · Feb 10, 2012

AranhaHunter said:
Price drop imminent

Wii - $99
360 - $149 Arcade/$199 Elite
PS3 - $199/$249

Sony, in particular, would benefit from a real PSThree Slim line. The "slim" now is a behemoth and I won't consider trading my 80GB BC fat for it. Make a real slim on 22nm chips + n wi fi though and we're talking. For extra awesomeness, include some more RAM for OS use only so that the XMB and store are not so sluggish and I will probably trade it in day 1.

This makes no sense, or do you live on planet "dreams can happen?"

AranhaHunter · Feb 10, 2012

[Clark Gable];34999883 said:
This makes no sense, or do you live on planet "dreams can happen?"

PSP1000-PSP2000 dream.

szaromir said:
I hope Nirolak reads it - it is stated that total $ spend on Xbox 360 platform (hardware, software and accessories) was 49% for the month, not that 360 sold 49% of all console units! Therefore one cannot conclude how much Wii+PS3 sold.

No, it says sales

Holding 49 percent share of current-generation console sales

szaromir · Feb 10, 2012

I hope Nirolak reads it - it is stated that total $ spend on Xbox 360 platform (hardware, software and accessories) was 49% for the month, not that 360 sold 49% of all console units! Therefore one cannot conclude how much Wii+PS3 sold.

Souldriver · Feb 10, 2012

These threads fucking suck btw. I remember when NPD threads caused server errors, and we got an abundance of numbers and analysis.

Now we're lucky if we get a PR release (two days after the thread is made). Fucking thing sucks!

RukusProvider · Feb 10, 2012

Amir0x said:
Because Call of Duty represents at this point the problem with the cynical Activision future... less and less motivation to actually get in there and fundamentally retool the massive problems with the series at this point, no ambition, more scripted and mechanics that are simply ported enmasse to the next yearly iteration. It's the definition of consumer-driven dreck, hordes of zombie-like fanboys unable to criticize the series since the unquenchable drive to compete with their friends scores have been driven into their skulls like so many prozac pills. Call of Duty series has continually declined in quality since the first Modern Warfare, or at least they've remained stagnant... and there is no end in sight. Activision will continue to find horrible ways to milk the series and by extension the consumers, until one day they kill the genre entirely like they did the music genre.

Have yearly iterations of sports games killed that genre?

We can subjectively debate what Activision is bringing to the table with each iteration but the truth is, we can do that with all sports games also.

Innovation doesn't need to be attained with each version. With CoD4, the series had a massive innovation and really took off. It would be very unwise of Activision to mess with that formula for the sake of innovation. The product is clearly in a very desirable state thus it's best to tweak it without making drastic changes that could backfire and hurt the franchise.

Ramblin · Feb 10, 2012

Amir0x said:
Because Call of Duty represents at this point the problem with the cynical Activision future... less and less motivation to actually get in there and fundamentally retool the massive problems with the series at this point, no ambition, more scripted and mechanics that are simply ported enmasse to the next yearly iteration. It's the definition of consumer-driven dreck, hordes of zombie-like fanboys unable to criticize the series since the unquenchable drive to compete with their friends scores have been driven into their skulls like so many prozac pills. Call of Duty series has continually declined in quality since the first Modern Warfare, or at least they've remained stagnant... and there is no end in sight. Activision will continue to find horrible ways to milk the series and by extension the consumers, until one day they kill the genre entirely like they did the music genre.

I know some people love that crap, since you have the ability to play for 80 hours and simply have advantage over your buddies because they perk the shit out of their builds and thus gain unfair leverage over far more talented players (rewards time investment over actual skill, in other words), but I long for the old days of entering matches and simply going man-v-man on pure talent. None of this EXTRA DAMAGE DONE perk or whatever magical game breaking ability you gain each level to the detriment of balance.

And how far did you have to walk in the snow to get to school?

Nirolak · Feb 10, 2012

szaromir said:
I hope Nirolak reads it - it is stated that total $ spend on Xbox 360 platform (hardware, software and accessories) was 49% for the month, not that 360 sold 49% of all console units! Therefore one cannot conclude how much Wii+PS3 sold.

Ah I see, thanks.

The original tweet wasn't as clear: http://twitter.com/#!/aarongreenberg/status/167750643501629440

AndrewDean84xX · Feb 10, 2012

So why aren't the 3DS and software numbers up yet?

Nirolak · Feb 10, 2012

AndrewDean84xX said:
So why aren't the 3DS and software numbers up yet?

Well, generally we only get software numbers for new releases, so that was unlikely this month.

As for 3DS sales, Nintendo for some reason has stopped sending out press releases, which is where we used to get all our Nintendo numbers from.

Yoona · Feb 10, 2012

Souldriver said:
These threads fucking suck btw. I remember when NPD threads caused server errors, and we got an abundance of numbers and analysis.

Now we're lucky if we get a PR release (two days after the thread is made). Fucking thing sucks!

Next month should be good. Vita release + Twisted Metal bomba will be great.

szaromir · Feb 10, 2012

Nirolak said:
Ah I see, thanks.

The original tweet wasn't as clear: http://twitter.com/#!/aarongreenberg/status/167750643501629440

Sorry, I think I misread the OP, I'm not sure anymore. Sorry for the confusion. It's unclear either way, though probably about unit sales.

[Clark Gable] · Feb 10, 2012

AranhaHunter said:
PSP1000-PSP2000 dream.

Totally different costs.

AranhaHunter · Feb 10, 2012

Nirolak said:
Well, generally we only get software numbers for new releases, so that was unlikely this month.

As for 3DS sales, Nintendo for some reason has stopped sending out press releases, which is where we used to get all our Nintendo numbers from.

Maybe the sales are not as hot as they are in Japan.

[Clark Gable];35000029 said:
Totally different costs.

Sure.

infinityBCRT · Feb 10, 2012

This is why I thought anything later than spring 2013 is loony for the next Xbox. I anticipated a drop in sales across all consoles throughout the year.

Kusagari · Feb 10, 2012

AranhaHunter said:
Maybe the sales are not as hot as they are in Japan.

3DS sold damn well in December, and Nintendo still didn't bother.

metareferential · Feb 10, 2012

jamesinclair said:
Who said anything about affording?

I can spend money on a $1,000 golden turd. Just because I choose not to buy it doesnt mean I cant afford it.

Some people actually make financial decisions, and dont just run around dropping $599 on a whim because the last paycheck came in higher than usual.

You were heavily criticizing this generation's pricing, hence everyone assumed you couldn't afford a console (most of this board's population still lives with parents/goes to school, etc, it's pretty normal having financial restrictions).

I still don't get the connection between making financial decisions and the pricing of a tech device. You can afford a console, but don't want to spend money on it. It doesn't necessarily mean that particular item is overpriced. You just don't want it.

Jeels · Feb 10, 2012

Why isn't Final Fantasy in the top ten?

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