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Halo 4 and the importance of top tier developers in next-gen

i honestly dont think i am playing the same game as some of you guys.
sure halo 4 has some problems, sure i would love halo 5 to go back to its roots but i still love playing halo 4 multiplayer. it is 10x better than reach in my opinion.
the campaign was also pretty enjoyable (again better than reach).
compared to 3, i would rate their multiplayers equivalent, but nothing comes close to halo 2.
campaign encounters: 3 > 4 > 2
story: 2 > 4 > 3
 
Pretty much the only game I ever play is Halo.
I'd guess my Halo (per gen) to other games combined time is about 75% Halo vs. 25% Everything else
It's the game that sits in my disk tray for months. I'll try some other game every once and while, but its always been a back to halo mentality for me for 2 generations now.

This is the first Halo that has got the same feeling that my typical flavor of the month game has. I'm just ready to go back to Halo once I'm done with Halo4.
 
I think you are getting two things mixed up, the technical side refers to the engine. Say what you will be there are some huge improvements on it, the only downside is the scale has been reduced. The thing you are complaining about is gameplay related or something outside (such as community interaction).
You are right but I think many of these things go hand in hand or are related to the technical aspect (framerate and sound mixing) not only the scale was reduced also the whole campaign theater is most likely not present because of the graphics.

But yeah I should have stated that I was talking about the whole game what was done wrong not only about the technical sacrifices.
 
It's interesting how divided people are over Halo 4, maybe the topic should be branched off into another thread? It is a bit OT.

I wonder if people who think Halo 4 has the best graphics have ever played Halo 3 or Halo: Reach. Even technically, Halo: Reach manages to do more without sacrificing the Halo sandbox. I posted screenshots of Reach's campaign a while back in an arguement regarding Reach's graphics:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=45271880&postcount=2133

Look at the textures, the skyboxes the sense of scale. I can't tell if the skyboxes in Reach are images or not, they might be, but they don't look compressed.

The lighting in Halo: Reach is pretty mute though, but I actually liked that and fitted in the setting/story.

They all make different trade-offs. I actually think Halo 4's scale is close to Reach, if not comparable, while both are scaled back from Halo 3. Also while I think all the Halo games look great in their own way, I don't think a graphical check list is what makes a game look good graphically. The omission of motion blur is probably the biggest let down, but the AO used in Reach never really added much to any given scene IMO.

There are things every Halo does better than the other games in the series, but I still don't think it's hard to see how Halo 4 could be argued as the best looking game. Every game has flaws when you go looking for them.

Halo4 is he reason I am going PS4 only next gen. I found it the most boring game I've played all year and the online is awful. I feel that it's a story and universe that's been pushed and stretched too far.
Personally I find Sonys first party games head and shoulders above MS. I know MS are investing in first party studios but I really do think MS will go for more of an App Store invested box next gen.

Judging by this post, the next xbox was hardly a consideration for you to begin with.

HiredN00bs makes consistently great posts.

If you liked the things that made previous Halos stand out, you probably won't like Halo 4. If you don't have great attention to detail, you haven't dove deep into the lore, and never learned the finer points of what made the multiplayer so balanced, you might miss Halo 4's flaws. That doesn't make you not a Halo fan.

I'm a pretty huge Halo fan, and while I do recognize many of the flaws in Halo 4's design, that doesn't stop me from recognizing what the game still is: a good shooter.

The scale and technical aspects of Halo 4 don't make me concerned for Halo 5....yet. My hopes is that with more resources in the 720, they'll be able to retain some of the qualities that were lacking or lost in Halo 4 while still producing awesome graphics.

My bigger concern are design choices that aren't really effected by technical limitations. I think the Prometheans are good enemies based on their abilities, but the visual designs and what's communicated to the player needs serious work. In prior Halos, you easily knew what rank of enemy you were against and what weapon they were holding. Now with the Prometheans, understanding their rank/class is not easily understood. There are also many times where you also don't realize what weapon they are using until you're being shot at. IMO Halo has always been about one part reflex/skill, one part strategy, and when you can't easily tell what weapon the Knights are holding, that removes some of the strategy, which goes against one of the key pillars in Halo's design.

There's much more I can go into, and have discussed with friends many times, but again I consider this all OT.
 
My bigger concern are design choices that aren't really effected by technical limitations. I think the Prometheans are good enemies based on their abilities, but the visual designs and what's communicated to the player needs serious work. In prior Halos, you easily knew what rank of enemy you were against and what weapon they were holding. Now with the Prometheans, understanding their rank/class is not easily understood. There are also many times where you also don't realize what weapon they are using until you're being shot at. IMO Halo has always been about one part reflex/skill, one part strategy, and when you can't easily tell what weapon the Knights are holding, that removes some of the strategy, which goes against one of the key pillars in Halo's design.

I agree with this to an extent, the differences in Promethean Knights are quite subtle.

My biggest concern for Halo 5 is around 343s use of QTEs, although only 2 they both annoyed me a lot - now that is something I think IS totally 'un-Halo' and I really hope to see no QTEs in Halo 5.

I also hope for weapon persistence to return - vanishing weapons in Halo 4 can be a total PITA and can really affect strategy.
 
I agree with this to an extent, the differences in Promethean Knights are quite subtle.

My biggest concern for Halo 5 is around 343s use of QTEs - now that is something I think IS totally 'un-Halo' and I really hope to see no QTEs in Halo 5.

I also hope for weapon persistence to return - vanishing weapons in Halo 4 can be a total PITA and can really affect strategy.



there are what, 2 QTE in the entire game? yeah, they dont belong and are stupid, but its such a non-issue.

i dont get the QTE complaint - though it echoes a lot of the complaints i see with halo 4 (OH MY GOD THOSE TERRIBLE MEDALS!)
 
there are what, 2 QTE in the entire game? yeah, they dont belong and are stupid, but its such a non-issue.

Yeah it's a nitpick, but IMO that's 2 more than there should be, and QTEs really get my goat, and I really don't expect to see them in a Halo game.

My concern for the next games is more along the lines that 343 see it as a non-issue to and push down the QTE-as-storytelling-gameplay route.

Hopefully it is a non-issue moving forwards!
 
I'd rather watch a cutscene or be in complete control rather than the awkward limbo that is 4's QTEs. They are really tedious when replaying the campaign.
 
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a game that doesn't devolve into A to B. Halo 4 just gives you a marker and a button.

And your wrong about there being no strategy involved, a lot of the encounters and level design is really reminiscent of that of CE. There's less corridors than CE and more mid-sized level segments, and less open expanses. I kind of agree with their decisions; massive, large-scale battles in Halo have always been a bit overrated. They still have their place, and perhaps 343s Halo needs better ones going forward, but there's only so many more Scarabs I can pump ammunition into.

AI is definitely one of the top priorities that need work though, and they need to bring back proper difficulty scaling for solo and coop. I would say AI and objective design are the top two things 343 needs to work on. After that is revamping enemy roles and fixing story delivery (read: get rid of terminals, no one will miss them).

I'm curious how many people consistently play the campaigns co-op and how many go through solo. Starting with 3 I have been playing all of them with my brother and brother in law and for that kind of play Halo 3 is sublime(Even Reach is great fun). Going back and playing Halo CE in co-op shows how far they have come balancing a lot of the areas and enemies. You can just kind of barrel through guys in Halo 1 and that is certainly the case in 4. The large expansive areas are so unique to this series and require a lot of teamwork on legendary especially against Elites who will try and draw you out single file to your doom. None of that epic scale was evident in Halo 4 at all. We got to the end and all felt very underwhelmed.

Conversely though maybe going through by yourself makes the narrow corridors and other areas not feel like such a cake walk.

I'd rather watch a cutscene or be in complete control rather than the awkward limbo that is 4's QTEs. They are really tedious when replaying the campaign.

Plus the last QTE is such a blatant rip of Crysis 2 its kind of ridiculous.
 
Which leads me to my main point... I'm mainly a PC gamer, so good IQ and the latest graphical tricks are always welcome. I was damn impressed by the game and to say the truth, if Halo 4 was running at 1080p with 4xAA, it could absolutely pass by a next-gen game.
What is next gen? Even if you mean PC games of 2012 ...
Wat?
 
Halo 4 is the best in terms of multiplayer in a Halo game this gen. So much fun. Haven't been this addicted to Halo multiplayer since Halo 2.

And yeah, the game looks fantastic.
 
343 has done an amazing job with Halo 4, there is actually LIGHTING in the game.

I always hated console shooters because of poor lighting that killed off any aspects of visual realism because reality needs good lighting.

Halo 4 has done that and I am pleased with it and looking forward for next gen being serious about good lighting in their upcoming games
 
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Really IGN....Really? 9.8? Have you played the game, its a glitchy nightmare.
 
I'm curious how many people consistently play the campaigns co-op and how many go through solo.

That's actually a really good point - I'm 90% solo play, so I can see that someone on the opposite side with mostly co-op could have a vastly different experience.
 
I'd love to agree, but in terms of the competitive community, the one's who prefer the classic Halo multiplayer experience over campaign, Halo 4 is severely lackluster.

It also shipped with a host of incomplete features, such as the File Browser online, as well as numerous in game, custom option bugs hindering several communities like Griffball, MLG, BTB, and so on.

Game Announcements (Multikills, Sprees, etc.) Are Not Made In Theatre Clips
-When you create a clip from a full film, the announcer no longer is audible.

Lack of Precision Forge Controls
-Reach's Forge controls allowed players to move objects slower and more precisely when holding in the Left Analog Stick. Additionally, players were able to zoom in on objects with the Right Stick to get a better handling of their precision movements. These controls have been removed without explanation.

"X" Waypoint for Dead Teammates No Longer Exists
-Another feature that has been removed without explanation.

Grifball "Ball Arm Time" Is Bugged
-Setting the Arm Time to any other setting than Instant does not actually change the Arm Time.

Lack of Party Indicators In Matchmaking
-Another feature that has been removed without explanation.

Party Details Tell Significantly Less Details in Halo 4
-Another feature that has been removed without explanation.

Setting Ammo Count for Battery-Based Weapons in Forge Does Nothing
-Changing Ammo Count for batter-based weapons hasn't had an effect every since Forge was introduced in Halo 3. Surprising to see this bug make its way into another game.

Weapons De-spawning Too Quickly If Not An Ordnance Weapon
-Players have noticed that weapons are despawning at a ridiculously quick rate after they have been dropped in comparison to past Halo games. This makes drop-spawning weapons (which creates static weapon spawns) a very inefficient method to spawning weapons.

Games Beginning With No Players On Opposing Team
-Games will somtimes begin with no players on one of the teams. This usually occurs when an entire team backs out after a game or the game after a game has ended because the entire team quit out. This bug is costing players Double XP games.

Alphabetical Order For Active Rosters
-Really confusing when you try to look for specific players through your Active Roster. Essentially forces you to just scroll through the entire Active Roster to find players.

Tactical and Support Packages Earned Through Specializations Are Not Options In Custom Games
-It seems very unneccesarry for these to not be included as options in custom games. It almost seems as if this was an oversight.

Cannot Change Max Player Count of Lobby Once a Player Joins
-Very annoying bug. Requires the leader to leave the party and make a new one to set a new Max Player Count.

Impact and Erosion Dynamic Lighting Bugs
-Both of these forge pallets have bugged or glitched dynamic lighting when about $6000 of the budget is spent. Impact will only cast shadows in proximity of the player, and leaves the rest of the map outside of this "sphere" without shadows, making the map super bright. Erosion loses dynamic lighting entirely and selects what appears to be random tones for the pieces.

Bugged Assassinations
-Players have experienced very buggy assassinations, sometimes allowing their player to navigate out of the assassination animation and kill the player assassinating them.

Setting Respawn Time in Slayer, Infinity Slayer, KotH and Oddball Gametypes Does Not Negate Instant Respawn
-Instant Respawn is always an option to players during a game no matter what the Respawn Duration setting is set to.

Bugged Flag Physics
-The Flag in CTF will sometimes get caught in map geometry and players aren't able to pick up the Flag.

Inability To Set Ammo Amount on Initial or Random Ordnance
-In Halo 3 and Halo: Reach, you were always allowed to set the amount of ammo weapons would spawn with. When spawning weapons through Ordnance, you do not have this option any more. This is especially an issue with Initial Ordnance.

Ordnance UI Displaying Incorrect Weapon
-In some cases, Ordnance UI will display the incorrect weapon. The most common cases are Frag Grenades having a Spartan Laser indicator and Rocket Launchers having Needler indicators.
Source: http://www.halocouncil.com/communit...572-halo-4-fixes-that-are-needed-immediately/

Also, that quote above is the short list.
 
Thats a good starter list of the things wrong U4ix.

Not too mention that 343 outsourced ...a large portion of this game to other developers. Creative Affinity and Some other company made a chunk of the maps, and CA did all the Forge upgrades like the Lighting and Magnets and User Attribute Areas...which is a complete lack of updates if you were to compare it to even Far Cry 2's editor.

Logically you cannot argue that the UI is a step backwards compared to Halo CE , 2, 3, and Reach's godly UI with the active roster.

Developers need to upgrade the game, but you dont always need to change for change sakes, if something works stick with it and put a new coat of paint on it. Dont reinvent the wheel here. What I'm saying is even a "godly" developer team like 343 (who you could say was like the best of the best all coming together from different companies) still need to practice restraint and some modesty and civility. Don't take something Bungie worked on for years and crap on it (The UI mainly) and the "Simplicity of the Halo gameplay"
 
Really IGN....Really? 9.8? Have you played the game, its a glitchy nightmare.

Welcome to the world of AAA gaming. Those marketing budgets are high for a reason, publishers create a vortex of pre-release hype both in plain sight and behind the scenes that, no matter what people say, does effect the reception of the game by and large. I'm not saying Halo 4 didn't deserve that score since I haven't played it much at all, but I've been burned by that kind of thing enough times to make me ignore a good chunk of the AAA side of the industry.
 
No it makes it something worse. A failure of both.

Heh, ok.

I'm (and others) are still having fun.

Edit: And yeah... Halo 4 is one of my favorite games of this year but 9.8 is way too high. But that's what happens when it's so easy for games to get high 8s and low 9s.
 
Welcome to the world of AAA gaming. Those marketing budgets are high for a reason, publishers create a vortex of pre-release hype both in plain sight and behind the scenes that, no matter what people say, does effect the reception of the game by and large. I'm not saying Halo 4 didn't deserve that score, but I've been burned by that kind of thing enough times to make me ignore a good chunk of the AAA side of the industry.

oH I saw the "hype packages" lol. I absolutely agree, but its ridiculous shit like this stands.

Not to mention the whole Mt Dew Dorito fiasco. Ughh, it literally disgusts me.

I mean look at the ranks of games that IGN has given a 9.8 they are god tier games. Halo 4 should feel lucky if those games let Halo 4 shine their boxes.

I am saying Halo 4 didnt deserve that score. Its much too glitchy in too many ways, its like they didnt even play the game. Even though I know they did cause I saw their prerelease stream. Hint: None of them were actually Halo 4 "players". They all stunk pretty bad.
 
Frame Rate

Frame Rate in Reach was terrible at points - I cannot recall much in the way of framerate inconsistencies in Halo 4 at any point - I believe that is one of the technical decisions that 343 got spot-on (reducing alpha transparency quality)
 
I completely agree on Halo 4 being a beautiful game but the focus still needs to be on gameplay. After 511 hours of Halo: Reach and 184 hours of Halo 4, I much prefer the gameplay in Reach.

As many have stated, the game is unbalanced and lacking what made past Halo games great. The play count on Reach has barely dropped since the launch of Halo 4 and that says something.
 
Halo 4 is the best in terms of multiplayer in a Halo game this gen. So much fun. Haven't been this addicted to Halo multiplayer since Halo 2.

And yeah, the game looks fantastic.
So damn true, for me and those I game with.

The complaints are valid, but the game is still a great fucking time, and the best console shooter versus out there.

Opinions and all that.
 
Not sure if anyone cares, but Halo 4 for 35 bucks at Newegg:



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Heh, ok.

I'm (and others) are still having fun.

Edit: And yeah... Halo 4 is one of my favorite games of this year but 9.8 is way too high. But that's what happens when it's so easy for games to get high 8s and low 9s.

I have fun with the game. I play near daily still. But I'm waiting for something else to take its place.
For someone like myself whom plays Halo religiously for years, I might be a little intune and stubborn about some core tenants of the franchise that are clearly broken to chase a newer audience.
I'm definitely burned and put off by it. I feel like we have a game in place that has really ruined the greatest competitive aspect it ever had, balance.
It's loadout system has come at the cost of vehicle play, as they are a huge liability vs the new starting weapons, and AA's and sprint further trivialize the role of a vehicle.
There really just was no other game like halo, and now halo seems more interested in falling in with the rest.

Let's see how dlc sales and how long halo4 stays in 2nd on the charts.
 
It is more along the lines that the "old guard" of Halo fans are greatly disappointed in the MP of Halo 4 because of the radical changes they have done in trying to cater more towards new people. Where as it seems that newish players seem to enjoy it more. Sadly, the older players seem to make up more of the repeat audience while a lot of the newer players go from game to game when the next big title hits. Thus you seem to lose both the regular Halo players because of the dramatic changes, and the new people because of other games that come out. Quite sad really, I remember when Halo 3 was battling CoD 4 and actually recapturing its audience to be the most played Xbox Live game of 2008. Now the changes that have been pushed on us are scaring away all of us core Halo fans. :(
 
How does 1 person play king of the hill?

My favourite part about Halo 4 is spawning without an armor ability and not being able to sprint.

Followed up by loadouts being juggled without touching them in game.

Followed by Games in progress and disappearing weapons.
 
It is more along the lines that the "old guard" of Halo fans are greatly disappointed in the MP of Halo 4 because of the radical changes they have done in trying to cater more towards new people. Where as it seems that newish players seem to enjoy it more. Sadly, the older players seem to make up more of the repeat audience while a lot of the newer players go from game to game when the next big title hits. Thus you seem to lose both the regular Halo players because of the dramatic changes, and the new people because of other games that come out.

Yea that's pretty much the short version.
 
I loved halo 4. But you know what I didn't love? The bile filled hate that I read every minute in Halogaf. I had to stop going in there for the sake of my sanity. The hate of Reach and jet packs was bad but this is nothing compared to the seething vitriol everyone has for 4. I don't quite understand it, as I'm a huge Halo fan but not a strict observer of the "Halo works, don't change a thing" dogma that many fans subscribe to. Yet reading the hate day after day, anger, disappointment etc... It got to me. I stopped playing halo 4 and going into Halogaf. Few weeks later, played some Halo 4, loved it. Went to non-Halo gaf, had fun talking games.

If Microsoft wants Halo to keep going , ride this wave of hate until a new generation picks it up and loves it. The old guard just wants more of the same, new maps, better graphics. That's okay, but not what's best for Halo imo.
 
Today I finally had a chance to sit down and play through most of Halo 4's campaign. Besides the fantastic gameplay, I was absolutely amazed by how good the game looks on the Xbox 360. The leap in graphics quality (both technically and artistically) from Halo 3 to 4 is nothing short of stunning.

Which leads me to my main point... I'm mainly a PC gamer, so good IQ and the latest graphical tricks are always welcome. I was damn impressed by the game and to say the truth, if Halo 4 was running at 1080p with 4xAA, it could absolutely pass by a next-gen game.

So, I started to think that all this talk about the PS4 and the 720 unable to be technically superior than a high end PC at launch really doesn't matter. I think that next-gen will finally break the barrier of doing whatever the devs wants graphically with the hardware, the limits will be only their imagination and their competence.

343 Industries are amazing devs, and like Santa Monica Studios, I expect these guys to make me regret spending so much on my gaming rig. And I'll be glad if they make it. Not bashing PC games and devs, I really love both. But after playing Halo 4, I'm almost sure that this gen will bring the leap in graphics needed for us to finally experience Hollywood-like productions in real time, if the devs are up to the task.

Discuss.
When ever the next gen consoles launch.. we usually see games that surpass the best looking pc games for the first few years ..not all games but there are always a few that just totally raise the bar above anything seen on the pc...and it happens every time and it'll happen when the next consoles hit. I caint wait for them to be released..i am so ready for some true next gen eye candy... Crysis 3 on my new pc i built will hold me over...so does Halo 4..just as you said..Halo 4 could pass "maybe" as a next gen looking game if it happened to be on a high end PC running at 1080p with high AA and AF...because as it sits now on the xbox 360..it is nothing short of breathtaking visually....it is the best looking game on xbox 360 and i am amazed as how the dev's did it..i simply couldnt believe what i was looking at on my 360 playing halo 4...simply amazing game

I know what some of what the OP said and others said and some of what i said really bothers PC only gamers...but you see..not everyone is a fanboy of a system..some of us just want damn good looking games and truth is..once next gen hits..the consoles will have an edge over PC's for a few years..PC's will catch up and surpass as always but who cares..if you appreciate the gaming scene..it shouldnt matter which platform a good looking and playing game happens to be on because first off..you will own all three platforms or at least one console and one gaming pc because you arent a fanboy...and second you play any good game no matter whats required to play it...having to buy a next gen console or/and having to upgrade a vid card in your rig or do a complete pc overhaul.
 
I loved halo 4. But you know what I didn't love? The bile filled hate that I read every minute in Halogaf. I had to stop going in there for the sake of my sanity. The hate of Reach and jet packs was bad but this is nothing compared to the seething vitriol everyone has for 4. I don't quite understand it, as I'm a huge Halo fan but not a strict observer of the "Halo works, don't change a thing" dogma that many fans subscribe to. Yet reading the hate day after day, anger, disappointment etc... It got to me. I stopped playing halo 4 and going into Halogaf. Few weeks later, played some Halo 4, loved it. Went to non-Halo gaf, had fun talking games.

If Microsoft wants Halo to keep going , ride this wave of hate until a new generation picks it up and loves it. The old guard just wants more of the same, new maps, better graphics. That's okay, but not what's best for Halo imo.

Halo fans were always the worst. Even for a huge MS cocksucker like me.

It's okay though! Halo 4/343 is here to stay baby!
 
The same as with every other great looking game, then.

But stupid that stuff of that was already achieved and loved, I mean the best levels of Halo 3 are big scale stuff .. why cut that back just to impress some dudes who get a boner over graphics.


I would prefer nice big encounters like in Halo 3.

Also nice post Juices

I loved halo 4. But you know what I didn't love? The bile filled hate that I read every minute in Halogaf. I had to stop going in there for the sake of my sanity. The hate of Reach and jet packs was bad but this is nothing compared to the seething vitriol everyone has for 4. I don't quite understand it, as I'm a huge Halo fan but not a strict observer of the "Halo works, don't change a thing" dogma that many fans subscribe to. Yet reading the hate day after day, anger, disappointment etc... It got to me. I stopped playing halo 4 and going into Halogaf. Few weeks later, played some Halo 4, loved it. Went to non-Halo gaf, had fun talking games.

If Microsoft wants Halo to keep going , ride this wave of hate until a new generation picks it up and loves it. The old guard just wants more of the same, new maps, better graphics. That's okay, but not what's best for Halo imo.

lol, yeah weird that the group who anticipated the game morethananyone else after reach isdisappointed with it when it makes a lot of the same mistakes.

And yeah good suggest, let's word it different "Microsoft should give a shit about the classis community and just alienate the franchise more and more" Good idea, let's do this for every game please.

Change and new stuff is cool, but not when it changes the whole style of gameplay.
 
If Microsoft wants Halo to keep going , ride this wave of hate until a new generation picks it up and loves it. The old guard just wants more of the same, new maps, better graphics. That's okay, but not what's best for Halo imo.

Youre literally ignoring the populations of Reach and H4. They are low.

They were high in H2 and H3. The game doesnt need change Halo is AWESOME.

Look at games that dont change much year after year. Madden, Every sports game, CoD. These games stick to what works and get results year after year.

Life is about change, in video games, we actually can avoid this and just play what we like over and over.

Also you werent really an old member I've been posting a ton in HaloGAF since H3 started and guess what you were a casual member there at best. Noone says Watership when they think HaloGAF. Not that its a big deal or anything HaloGAF is fallen apart lately.

PS its not extactly vitriol hate, we actually WANT HALO to succeed. We really do, but the direction its been taken just, isnt right.
 
Halo 4 was for the most part just a lame cash-in. What game make the most money? Call of Duty. So let's take all the characteristics in multiplayer that it had and slap them onto Halo. The singleplayer campaign sucked but I usually only play that once so I don't really care that much. The multiplayer just turned into Call of Duty. If I want to play CoD I'll play that. 343 doesn't really have much of an independent vision of Halo for themselves. It's just "let's make money for our parent corporation by copying whatever is popular."
 
xxjuicesxx, most people that play Halo are casual players. I'd guess its actually the vast majority, and always has been.

I know. They also enjoy good games too. Theyll enjoy a stripped basic Halo just as much as the people who actually want it.

Theres a bit of the 20.80 rule going on though. Most of the players play a bit A few of the players play A LOT.

Halo 4 was for the most part just a lame cash-in. What game make the most money? Call of Duty. So let's take all the characteristics in multiplayer that it had and slap them onto Halo. The singleplayer campaign sucked but I usually only play that once so I don't really care that much. The multiplayer just turned into Call of Duty. If I want to play CoD I'll play that. 343 doesn't really have much of an independent vision of Halo for themselves. It's just "let's make money for our parent corporation by copying whatever is popular."

Exactly. "Do I wanna play the smooth CoD that runs at 60fps or the one that runs at 20fps with dips?" Easy choice every time.
 
I know. They also enjoy good games too. Theyll enjoy a stripped basic Halo just as much as the people who actually want it.

Theres a bit of the 20.80 rule going on though. Most of the players play a bit A few of the players play A LOT.
For what its worth I hope you guys get your changes - at least the ones that don't strip Halo 4 of what's new. Customization and competition-spec playlists though? Hell yes.
 
Halo 4 was for the most part just a lame cash-in. What game make the most money? Call of Duty. So let's take all the characteristics in multiplayer that it had and slap them onto Halo. The singleplayer campaign sucked but I usually only play that once so I don't really care that much. The multiplayer just turned into Call of Duty. If I want to play CoD I'll play that. 343 doesn't really have much of an independent vision of Halo for themselves. It's just "let's make money for our parent corporation by copying whatever is popular."

I've heard soooooooo many people say this.

So many.

What are they playing now? Call of Duty.
 
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