Gucci Messiah
Banned
Well you can't expect exponential growth, especially this late in the generation. Aren't Call of Duty's numbers down as well? Could be wrong about that one, I'm not sure.
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Halo 4 and the importance of top tier developers in next-gen
- Thread starter Peterthumpa
- Start date
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
No duh, that comes with time spent together as a team. For their first effort, Halo 4 is really impressive, and I expect their future games to be significantly better.
Monocle
Member
For a start, let's see if they can jettison the frustrating enemies, the randomness in multiplayer, and the hideous mishy-mashy Spartan IV designs. None of which would have required special expertise to avoid in Halo 4, since 343 had Bungie's games as reference, but never mind.
Fess
Member
Yup, and Naughty Dog too has been doing this for this whole generation. Personally I seriously think the "leap" to next generation will be mimimal compared to Halo 4, Uncharted 3, Last of Us until 343 and ND reveals their first next gen offering. We'll see more particles and strands of hair but that's about it. If we're lucky we'll also see 60 fps, but I suspect that the particles steals those frames.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a game that doesn't devolve into A to B. Halo 4 just gives you a marker and a button.
And your wrong about there being no strategy involved, a lot of the encounters and level design is really reminiscent of that of CE. There's less corridors than CE and more mid-sized level segments, and less open expanses. I kind of agree with their decisions; massive, large-scale battles in Halo have always been a bit overrated. They still have their place, and perhaps 343s Halo needs better ones going forward, but there's only so many more Scarabs I can pump ammunition into.
AI is definitely one of the top priorities that need work though, and they need to bring back proper difficulty scaling for solo and coop. I would say AI and objective design are the top two things 343 needs to work on. After that is revamping enemy roles and fixing story delivery (read: get rid of terminals, no one will miss them).
JimiNutz
Banned
Graphics are at a point now where I don't really care that much about more polygons on screen.
Halo 4, The Last of Us, God of War A et. all look beautiful but if these devs are simply going to throw more polygons around on screen next gen then its going to get boring.
I know it's not going to happen but I'd much rather that they focus on things like animation, smooth frame rates (60 fps), better AI, realistic physics. Things that affect gameplay.
We're at the point where games look so realistic anyway, and I know they CAN look better, but those nice shiny graphics are going to get boring if there aren't advances in gameplay and the way that we interact with the game environment.
I hope some devs focus on these aspects next gen instead of seeing how detailed a character model they can create or having the most realistic looking cars/guns/hallways.
Halo 4, The Last of Us, God of War A et. all look beautiful but if these devs are simply going to throw more polygons around on screen next gen then its going to get boring.
I know it's not going to happen but I'd much rather that they focus on things like animation, smooth frame rates (60 fps), better AI, realistic physics. Things that affect gameplay.
We're at the point where games look so realistic anyway, and I know they CAN look better, but those nice shiny graphics are going to get boring if there aren't advances in gameplay and the way that we interact with the game environment.
I hope some devs focus on these aspects next gen instead of seeing how detailed a character model they can create or having the most realistic looking cars/guns/hallways.
REMEMBER CITADEL
Banned
It's not like Bungie didn't have its ups and downs. For all the love it gets here, I found ODST's campaign rather pedestrian, and a not so successful experiment. Mishy-mashy is actually the perfect term I would use to describe it.
Unknown One
Member
I really hope destruction plays a huge factor in next generation shooters. It was great in BFBC2 and I hope it's turned up a notch. Destruction is a huge game changer to me and it opens up a truly dynamic battlefield with situations constantly changing. I want BFBC2 on steroids with huge maps and almost everything being destructible, even the landscape itself.
They created a technically beautiful game, it gives a real great first impression. The thing is that long time fans, especially the torch being handed over from Bungie, expect more than just pretty graphics. Customization and dialog with the community are up there as being just as important as the looks. While Halo 4 entices new players to try out the franchise, it often feels like 343 neglects long time fans. Imagine that most people will move on to the next game on the pile or hype of the week, while people who usually would stick longer now have this stripped down game with a fraction of the community features previous HaloÂ’s did have. Yeah, that is really depressing.
343 first game shows also that they are just starting as a company, with the hiring and the production going on at the same time cuts had to be made in the game. IÂ’m looking forward to their next game, just to see now that the studio has their solid foot on the ground seeing as all the studio buildup must for large part be done. One thing we can be sure about though is that they will be up there for best graphics next generation, for the rest weÂ’ll have to see.
343 first game shows also that they are just starting as a company, with the hiring and the production going on at the same time cuts had to be made in the game. IÂ’m looking forward to their next game, just to see now that the studio has their solid foot on the ground seeing as all the studio buildup must for large part be done. One thing we can be sure about though is that they will be up there for best graphics next generation, for the rest weÂ’ll have to see.
gollumsluvslave
Member
I think a lot of the divisive nature of Halo 4 is related to not being able to please all the people all the time.
I see Halo 4 is a 'transitionary' game, and to a certain extent 343 are 'damned if they do, damned if they don't':-
Criticised in most quarters for being 'too safe' and not taking 'risks', yet pissing off the die-hard Halo fans by changing too much...
Previous games were criticised widely for being graphically subpar (regardless of scale etc), 343 have obviously tried to address that but some of their compromises have lost things in previous titles that a minority appreciated.
Personally, I think a lot of why people like/dislike Halo 4 will have some relation to what their favourites in the series were prior to playing (both Campaign and multi)
For example, prior to Halo 4 my preferences (for Campaign -not really a multiplayer fan in general) in the series would have gone like this:-
Halo CE > Halo 3: ODST > Halo Reach > Halo 3 > Halo 2
Post Halo 4 I think I'm along these lines:-
CE > ODST/4 > Reach > 3 > 2
I suspect similar patterns; people that love Halo 2 and Halo 3 the best will likely not enjoy 4 as much.
But as I said - it's a 'transitionary' game - first game with Chief in the new studio, no Marty O'Donnell (soundtrack being a massive part of Halo); on the whole I think 343 balanced things really well; sure some things sucked (lack of persistence in weapons being the main culprit for me), but I had a blast, and am looking forward to see where they move the series with a base to build from.
I see Halo 4 is a 'transitionary' game, and to a certain extent 343 are 'damned if they do, damned if they don't':-
Criticised in most quarters for being 'too safe' and not taking 'risks', yet pissing off the die-hard Halo fans by changing too much...
Previous games were criticised widely for being graphically subpar (regardless of scale etc), 343 have obviously tried to address that but some of their compromises have lost things in previous titles that a minority appreciated.
Personally, I think a lot of why people like/dislike Halo 4 will have some relation to what their favourites in the series were prior to playing (both Campaign and multi)
For example, prior to Halo 4 my preferences (for Campaign -not really a multiplayer fan in general) in the series would have gone like this:-
Halo CE > Halo 3: ODST > Halo Reach > Halo 3 > Halo 2
Post Halo 4 I think I'm along these lines:-
CE > ODST/4 > Reach > 3 > 2
I suspect similar patterns; people that love Halo 2 and Halo 3 the best will likely not enjoy 4 as much.
But as I said - it's a 'transitionary' game - first game with Chief in the new studio, no Marty O'Donnell (soundtrack being a massive part of Halo); on the whole I think 343 balanced things really well; sure some things sucked (lack of persistence in weapons being the main culprit for me), but I had a blast, and am looking forward to see where they move the series with a base to build from.
HollovVpo1nt
Banned
I wonder if people who think Halo 4 has the best graphics have ever played Halo 3 or Halo: Reach. Even technically, Halo: Reach manages to do more without sacrificing the Halo sandbox. I posted screenshots of Reach's campaign a while back in an arguement regarding Reach's graphics:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=45271880&postcount=2133
Look at the textures, the skyboxes the sense of scale. I can't tell if the skyboxes in Reach are images or not, they might be, but they don't look compressed.
The lighting in Halo: Reach is pretty mute though, but I actually liked that and fitted in the setting/story.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=45271880&postcount=2133
Look at the textures, the skyboxes the sense of scale. I can't tell if the skyboxes in Reach are images or not, they might be, but they don't look compressed.
The lighting in Halo: Reach is pretty mute though, but I actually liked that and fitted in the setting/story.
It's funny how some people say that the game is too much like the previous Halos and others say that the skirmishes don't feel like Halo.
Halo 4's Campaign is awesome IMO (my favorite after 3 & CE) and the most consistent of all in terms of quality, also the gameplay and enemy placements/encounters are excellent. The criticism of being too linear is kinda weird IMO because Halo's gameplay works amazing in close quarters as much as it works in big areas with the dynamic enemy AI.
Halo 4 sure is not perfect though, they should take more risks in the next Campaign...personally I'd like to see them go crazy in the next SP like getting rid of the linear mission structure (and co-op if that means that their vision will be compromised) and expand the ODST hub design even further, add more new enemies and crazy weapons and try to do their own thing in the Halo franchise.
Also Spartan Ops needs a serious overhaul, at it's current state it's getting stale and it's a vastly inferior mode to Firefight...now about multiplayer they should go back to basics (Halo 2/3) and stick with it, don't try and add things to cater to the casual audience that they're not gonna play your game anyway - try and focus on your own fanbase, the people that will actually PLAY your game after the one month hype period passes.
That being said I can't wait for Halo 5 and I think that the next game will be a very important point/entry in the franchise, hopefully it turns out great.
gaming_noob
Member
I just wanted to add that my K/D ratio is 1.06 (roughly 1000 kills, and I started off poorly with adjustments from years of Call of Duty) in Halo 4 - that's the first positive ratio in a Halo game for me. It could be that they made it easier to kill or it might have just been changing the controller sensitivity to 3 (which I never would have thought I'd ever prefer) but I'm totally killing it in multiplayer and loving this game.
I think it's true when someone in this thread said true Halo fans dislike Halo 4 while casuals will love it.
I think it's true when someone in this thread said true Halo fans dislike Halo 4 while casuals will love it.
Halo4 is he reason I am going PS4 only next gen. I found it the most boring game I've played all year and the online is awful. I feel that it's a story and universe that's been pushed and stretched too far.
Personally I find Sonys first party games head and shoulders above MS. I know MS are investing in first party studios but I really do think MS will go for more of an App Store invested box next gen.
Personally I find Sonys first party games head and shoulders above MS. I know MS are investing in first party studios but I really do think MS will go for more of an App Store invested box next gen.
specialguy
Banned
i dont feel much desire to replay halo 4's campaign. it was epic and all, but just dont. too many standoffs with promethean knights.
it is what it is.
though the games gorgeous, the garish bloom lighting in the early levels is really hard on the eyes.
i would probably place it above 3 (which is terrible) but well below reach for campaign (i dont really play multiplayer)
it is what it is.
though the games gorgeous, the garish bloom lighting in the early levels is really hard on the eyes.
i would probably place it above 3 (which is terrible) but well below reach for campaign (i dont really play multiplayer)
It's generally an easier game to jump into, from my perspective as a longtime hardcore fan. Part of that is the waypoint-heavy UI that points out things like weapon spawns and objective carrier locations causing map knowledge (plus general awareness, especially in objective gametypes) to be less necessary than before. Then, the randomized nature of how they're handling on-map weapon spawns with Global Ordnance makes it quite a bit easier for randoms/middling teams to hold their own against a strong team since the map control isn't really the same factor it used to be. Those were things that were easy-to-see divisions between good teams and so-so teams in prior games (and as such, the changes are kind of a bummer, to tell the truth).
Also, 3 sensitivity is best sensitivity.
I can understand that the new style of smoke and mirrors might sway some people towards Halo 4. And they do isolated speaking look fantastic. But for me, I actually prefer Halo Reach because there were a lot of graphical compromises which I personally didn't like that much. And the new enemies felt out of place to me (which sadly made me less interested in the universe and thus the game itself), the dogs the knights...zZZzzZZ... BTW; no firefight = :'( as well.
bobs...onGaf
Member
They did a terrible job with the engine in my opinion.
Game looks pretty but sacrificed a bunch a legacy features in order to look pretty.
HocusPocus
Member
I was absolutely shocked by Halo 4 not being in more top ten lists for GOTY. It's fantastic and just shows a general bias towards the series by the folks making the list. I had the same impression of the game as the original poster. Holy crap was my first thoughts when I saw how tight the gameplay was with the graphics making my jaw drop.
The Killzone, Resistance & Socom series are heads and shoulders above Halo? I see how someone would prefer them over Halo (well Resistance 3 was excellent) but heads and shoulders? seriously? I guess I'll never understand all the hyperbolic praise the PS3 first party titles are getting here.
It's weird because even the worst Nintendo fanboys don't overhype things that much even though Nintendo has the most consistent first party line-up of the three.
They did a great job considering what they had in terms of time, the old ass hardware of the 360 and working with an already existing engine (and that means having to deal with all the limitations this engine brought with it) plus all the bitching by the majority of fans about how poor Halo 3 and Reach were looking and how they hoped for a more polished looking game...of course now Reach is the pinnacle of tech on the 360, magically the sub-HD framebuffer/TAA/frame drops don't bother them and suddenly the vast skyboxes and beautiful particles of Bungie are brought into discussion.
HiredN00bs
Banned
Any series fan that spends significant time with Halo 4 is going to eventually come to the realization that in almost every facet, Halo 4 is not as thoughtfully designed, nor as expertly executed as any of the previous entries.
Spartan Ops is like a cruel joke. The writing is atrocious, it's hard to believe it was put out by the same studio that has been managing the fiction for the past 5 years. The mission design feels non-existent. There is no flow, no scaling based on party size or difficulty, just spawn a bunch of AI on a map, ship it. It is disgraceful that this doesn't even reach a fraction of the quality of Firefight.
The writing in the campaign is better, but 343 Industries mangles characters like Cortana and even new ones like Lasky don't make a whole lot of sense (let's promote Halo 4 with a kick-ass live action series and then have the characters common to both have dialog that makes it seem like the events of the series never even happened).
The sound quality in Halo 4's campaign is horribly inconsistent, with music and effects being compressed to hell and back at times, shitting all over the excellent soundtrack composed by Neil Davidge. Way to welcome the new composer. I can't believe anyone even brought up sound as a positive point in this thread.
343 has top-tier talent within in its studio, but Halo 4 is a deeply flawed product, and I haven't even started talking about the multiplayer yet.
Spartan Ops is like a cruel joke. The writing is atrocious, it's hard to believe it was put out by the same studio that has been managing the fiction for the past 5 years. The mission design feels non-existent. There is no flow, no scaling based on party size or difficulty, just spawn a bunch of AI on a map, ship it. It is disgraceful that this doesn't even reach a fraction of the quality of Firefight.
The writing in the campaign is better, but 343 Industries mangles characters like Cortana and even new ones like Lasky don't make a whole lot of sense (let's promote Halo 4 with a kick-ass live action series and then have the characters common to both have dialog that makes it seem like the events of the series never even happened).
The sound quality in Halo 4's campaign is horribly inconsistent, with music and effects being compressed to hell and back at times, shitting all over the excellent soundtrack composed by Neil Davidge. Way to welcome the new composer. I can't believe anyone even brought up sound as a positive point in this thread.
343 has top-tier talent within in its studio, but Halo 4 is a deeply flawed product, and I haven't even started talking about the multiplayer yet.
Haunted
Member
I thought it was pretty great exactly for that reason. Definitely my favourite Halo game this generation.
Good sendoff for the system, too, it's a good looking game for the console it's on.
edit: purely talking about SP and co-op, never touched the MP of any Halo game.
AkimbO_Arcana
Banned
Besides the graphics Halo 4 is the worst game in the series for numerous already mentioned reasons.
And yeah, I expect more 'Hollywood-like productions' on 720 and PS4. And I don't like this one bit, if it come with the trade offs in the gameplay department, like in Halo 4.
And yeah, I expect more 'Hollywood-like productions' on 720 and PS4. And I don't like this one bit, if it come with the trade offs in the gameplay department, like in Halo 4.
please dont make blanket statements for halo fans. also, a halo game not made by bungie feels different? i'm shocked.
I really liked the Halo 4 SP despite some glaring flaws. Firstly pertaining to linearity, I think it was slightly more linear than Halo Reach. I feel the hyperbole comes due to the fresh memory of playing the H4 as opposed to others in the series where a few of the battles in the predecessors did take place in levels larger than H4 (feels that way when you're on foot) and the fact H4 does have more prominent linear levels.
Pertaining to graphics, it is a step above Reach, and miles ahead of Halo 3 in terms of IQ and character models. However, sacrifices made such as 2D horizon really does detract (as opposed to Reach that only had 2D sky boxes iirc) from immersion.
My biggest gripe from a game design perspective pertains to the laziness in promethean enemy variety and their weapons that are so analogous to human weapons (as if they're just reskinned) with certain leap of logic when I saw MC being able to reload an exotic and alien weapon.
I think 343 is on the right track but are perhaps too afraid to make bold fundamental changes. Let's see what they make out of H5.
Pertaining to graphics, it is a step above Reach, and miles ahead of Halo 3 in terms of IQ and character models. However, sacrifices made such as 2D horizon really does detract (as opposed to Reach that only had 2D sky boxes iirc) from immersion.
My biggest gripe from a game design perspective pertains to the laziness in promethean enemy variety and their weapons that are so analogous to human weapons (as if they're just reskinned) with certain leap of logic when I saw MC being able to reload an exotic and alien weapon.
I think 343 is on the right track but are perhaps too afraid to make bold fundamental changes. Let's see what they make out of H5.
gollumsluvslave
Member
This long-time series fan vehemently disagrees, I've enjoyed Halo 4 more than 2, 3 and Reach. Just completed Spartan Ops, and am looking forward to the new espisodes in a few weeks.
QFT. +1000
HiredN00bs
Banned
You guys will come around. It's a prediction, not a blanket statement. I don't appreciate my posts being mischaracterized so I'd like to ask for both of you to apologize.
I also don't appreciate being quoted without name or hyperlink. It comes off as being dickish.
I also don't appreciate being quoted without name or hyperlink. It comes off as being dickish.
you have a screw loose.
This is very true and I still activly play the game.
HiredN00bs
Banned
I forgive you.
HiredN00bs makes consistently great posts.
If you liked the things that made previous Halos stand out, you probably won't like Halo 4. If you don't have great attention to detail, you haven't dove deep into the lore, and never learned the finer points of what made the multiplayer so balanced, you might miss Halo 4's flaws. That doesn't make you not a Halo fan.
If you liked the things that made previous Halos stand out, you probably won't like Halo 4. If you don't have great attention to detail, you haven't dove deep into the lore, and never learned the finer points of what made the multiplayer so balanced, you might miss Halo 4's flaws. That doesn't make you not a Halo fan.
HiredN00bs
Banned
Precisely. Keep playing Halo 4. Play the other games. Compare them.
i really hate this attitude of "if you love, or even like halo 4, you arent as well versed in what makes halo halo as i am." you arent alone though - its an affliction of most of halogaf.
No, I said probably. It's not like I'm saying, "If you like X then you're not allowed to like Y." I just feel that Halo 4 is lacking many of the things that made Halo special, and a great many people have noticed that. It's a trend I have observed that those people most involved are the ones that feel the most negatively about this game. I'm merely restating it.
oh, you said probably and might. ok then, for some reason i thought that was an attack. troll on.
Ninja Moomin
Banned
This.
Halo 4 is the best halo since Halo 1, IMO, but has divided people on the basis its not a linear extension of Reach.
Sure if 343 hadn't changed much and hadn't made changes to the engine and GFX (even with compromises on certain things), then everyone would be saying they are stuck in Bungie's shadow and aren't changing enough? In short, damned either way.
YES! I can't believe people say Halo 4 is a technical beast, it isn't. So many cut offs and sacrifices just to get pretty graphics are just stupid.
The campaign had much potential but was a let down, and people compare the campaign to Halo CE ? What the fuck.
The multiplayer brought some changes that don't work, are unbalanced and drive Halo away from being an arena shooter.
Achieved with outsourcing to other developers and even then we have a terrible framerate on some maps (playing coop is a mess)
Features that were awesome or needed an improvement are fucked up(theater) or just don't work at all ( file browser)
Sounds are sometimes off and mixed in a weird way.
The community interaction and help is shitty.
Yeah I don't know if I want to talk about top developers while referencing 343.
I think you are getting two things mixed up, the technical side refers to the engine. Say what you will be there are some huge improvements on it, the only downside is the scale has been reduced. The thing you are complaining about is gameplay related or something outside (such as community interaction).
No, I think people expected them to take Bungie's best work and make it bigger and better. Expand on the things that worked, and drop the things that didn't. Instead we got a game much smaller and with plenty of missing features.
fixed. in a lot of ways halo 4 is a direct extension of reach - and thats one of the more glaring sticking points for some.
gollumsluvslave
Member
I'm with you here.
I've sunk enough time into Halo 4 to know that your prediction is wrong in my case, and I'm sure it's wrong for other people too. If anything is dickish, it's your know-it-all attitude; there is such a thing as subjective taste and preference
Of course I'll be very clear - I'm not really including multiplayer here as I only ever dip my toes in for an odd game.
All Halo campaigns are flawed - none are perfect.
However, after replaying 1,2 & 3 in preparation for Halo 4 I can tell you that I enjoyed 4 much more than 2 or 3. And this considering some of the worst aspects of Halo 4 (vanishing weapons).
This was not just because of the 'new lick of paint' either; I still enjoyed CE most.
As some others have said, maybe I prefer Halo 4 to 2 & 3 because it takes it's inspiration from CE much more than the others. Also I didn't really take to Brutes - fuckin' monkeys, so having none in Halo 4 is a big plus.
However, one thing I can't understand is that to me ALL the games have that feel of what makes Halo - 30 seconds of fun combat, alien otherwordly mystique etc, yet people say that 4 'doesn't feel like Halo'.
IMO Halo 4 recaptured some of that 'alien otherwordly mystique' that CE did so well MUCH better than 2 & 3, and for someone that has all the books and loves the extended universe it was great to see some of that brought into the story; even if there were a few misfires it was still much better that the story / narrative execution in 2 & 3.
This write-up by Eurogamer really sums Halo 4 up for me:-
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-12-28-games-of-2012-halo-4
yeah, i enjoyed the campaign for similar reasons. its not my favorite, but its still damn good. in a lot of ways, it reminds me of 2's which was also more linear with smaller environments, but made up for that with some really stellar indoor level design.
the most obvious, and gameplay affecting, things are:
-instant respawns
-perks
-personal ordnance, which behaves similar to killstreak rewards
Why do you guys do that to yourselves!? That sounds terrible!!
Ninja Moomin
Banned
Isn't that what Nintendo have been saying for about ten years?
ProfessorMoran
Member
Reach has better/more open campaign and AI, 4 has better graphics but absolutely shitty MC visor, Reach has a way better musical score.
In addition to the above, sprint is a base player trait. Not necessarily bad until mixed with instant respawn.
Note that these changes are universal - you can't even turn off sprint or instant respawn in custom games (without modding your Xbox, anyway).
There are also a bunch of gametypes gone missing: 1 flag, assault, territories, juggernaut, probably a few more.
The remaining objective gametypes have been fundamentally changed, for example in CTF you automatically pick up the flag, and you can't drop it. Add that to your flag carrier becoming an always visible waypoint for the other team, and you're guaranteed dead.
Who's that MC Visor you speak of? Does he have the illest rhymes?
yeah, i'm hoping for a bit of this - not to a map design breaking level, but certainly smaller objects/cover with power weapons. last night i was playing on exile and tracking a ghost with a splazer. finally had the sucker charged up and on target only to have my shot get stopped by a tiny branch of a tree. in halo 5 i want my spartan laser to turn an object like that into thousands of shards on its way to destroying my target.
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