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RAM thread of Next Generation
- Thread starter thuway
- Start date
Yes because most of that 8GB is not usable for gaming on a 65GB/s bus. Only 1.08 GB is readable per frame at 60 fps.
Compare 3.2GB usable per frame of the 192 GB/s.
So it like the ps4 has 3x the ram of the x720.
Chuck Norris
Banned
Wouldn't slow RAM be a strain on open world games? Especially if you have things like flying
This isn't happening in this generation.
Proelite
Member
videogamephilosopher
Banned
I honestly think the next consoles will have about between 4-6GB at the start.
and will add about 4 more later. I know I will get alot of flak for this comment but I clearly see there being a fast interface being put in thunderbolt or something that will allow more Ram to work in harmony with the main unit. So when the market is ready for VR, 4K or whatever, all they would have to do is by the box put it on the bottom of the system connected to the main unit with additional RAM and processors built in the secondary box. That way the market is not fragmented when it comes to games.
and will add about 4 more later. I know I will get alot of flak for this comment but I clearly see there being a fast interface being put in thunderbolt or something that will allow more Ram to work in harmony with the main unit. So when the market is ready for VR, 4K or whatever, all they would have to do is by the box put it on the bottom of the system connected to the main unit with additional RAM and processors built in the secondary box. That way the market is not fragmented when it comes to games.
Is this a serious post? lol
Proelite
Member
Only in regards to ram. The reverse is true for everything else.
SniperHunter
Banned
what about the highly customized GPU that performs as well as a GTX 680? Mean while Sony is going with an APU solution based on AMD's mobile lineup.
They seem rather boringly similar otherwise. Are you thinking about the CPU?
Anyway, funny to think that RAM may be the most interesting difference between the two consoles.
What. Did I miss that?
Is there some solid info on that?
liquidspeed
Member
In one of my earlier posts, i said that compared to many of you here, I am a layman when it comes to in depth hardware performance discussions, so that is very possible.
The main point of my posts in this thread has been to ask questions and attempt to ascertain the main drawbacks AND positives of each setup because I don't currently understand it well enough.
Angelus Errare
Banned
People really need to stop trying to apply 2005 console's scenario to 2013, it's just foolish.
You do know that in open world games the entire world isn't stored in memory right? And GDDR5 allows for ALOT more than simply AF...which really at this point in time doesn't even register as a performance hit on hardware, let alone VRAM.
You do know that in open world games the entire world isn't stored in memory right? And GDDR5 allows for ALOT more than simply AF...which really at this point in time doesn't even register as a performance hit on hardware, let alone VRAM.
Proelite
Member
Durango cpu 2x the core count, might be 1/2 the speed.
Durango gpu 66% of the peak flops, but has esram and more assistive silicon.
Imo more different than 360 / ps3.
it's about getting stuff off the memory to your APU.Roughly: basically you fill the 8 gigs with data and can stream 1 gig of it every frame. (in theory) Truth is: you won't need that amount of (new)data every frame. But It's good to have some headroom here. You also can stream stuff in parallel if unified ram is used. stupid example: 500 MB to your CPU, 500 MB to the GPU.
yurinka
Member
I'd say it was a rumor but someone said that Sony was targeting 1080p@60fps@3D
*runs*
SniperHunter
Banned
the info is in the Xbox 8 Chinese rumor thread, pretty exciting stuff IMO.
Proelite
Member
I know for a fact that PS4 share similarities with ILano and started from the Fusion line.
http://www.realworldtech.com/fusion-llano/2/
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
If AF isn't required next gen I might cry.
SniperHunter
Banned
So is the Xbox 8 "orders of magnitude" more powerful than PS4? Is this a PS2 vs Xbox graphics difference all over again?
I tend to agree with this.
2GB felt 'hmmm :/'
4GB feels right.
Some related trends between generations, relating to the pathways in and out of memory, thinking about multiplat games:
Disc capacity growth: 8GB->50GB: 6x
Memory bandwidth growth: 22GB/s or 50GB/s -> 70GB/s or 200GBs = 3-4x
'Popular' PC System RAM growth, 2006->2012 (per Steam hw survey googling): 512MB -> 4GB: 8x
Capacity: 512MB -> 4GB : 8x Too small? Hmm.
Talking of next-gen Skyrims also, Morrowind -> Skyrim was done on a 8x jump in RAM. I do not see next-gen Bethesda open world games needing a bigger jump than that. In fact the target jump on the minimum end might be lower than that unless they see a good increase in the efficiency of their memory usage...or else you'll see that 4GB console game translate into monstrous PC requirements. Given how PC RAM growth seems to have slowed in recent years, I think requirements around that might be more modest. For example if next-gen Bethesda games require 8GB of RAM on PC, a 4GB console should be fine going from a historical perspective.
8GB DDR3 seems like a bit of an outlier in the above. I'm not sure the capacity/speed tradeoff was made solely with likely next-gen game requirements in mind.
Let's wait and see though. A little part of me still fears Sony will throw out something with 2GB :/
AF will be free next-gen, same as its free on PC currently.
Krauser Kat
Member
durango gpu isnt going to touch 680 unless its a mobile version and if that.
Karak
Member
Esram depending on size helps a great deal. Blitter is a guess.
Overall memory configuration is what will seal the actual deal.
Stallion Free
Cock Encumbered
And yet PC games still ship without it just be forced. Devs are clueless when it comes to small things like that. Thank god for video card control panels.
RAM upgrades on PC slowed due to market shifting hard to console lead platform development, that's literally all.
Next gen comes and many games (not all) will use all the available memory.
From what he's said, PS4 would be more powerful on the processor side generally speaking, with exceptions for tasks handled by dedicated silicon that aren't handled by similar on PS4.
There wouldn't be remotely one order of magnitude difference between either.
That's if what he said is true. I'm still a bit skeptical MS will go with a smaller/slower pool of shaders than Sony, whatever about what else is in there.
Proelite
Member
GPU only. As far as I know Durango has the advantage in CPU since Orbis CPU is mostly like Jaguar cores too.
I was just levelling out the reference to 2x the cores at 1/2 the speed. That is assuming the same core type though, which maybe you didn't intend to suggest.
On a more general note I also thought I read somewhere that Jaguars are limited in their clock speed so I dunno if PS4 would necessarily have a clock advantage. PS4's CPU situation has been a bit murky.
I'm not really knowledgeable about these things but if the current rumors are true the next ps/xbox are worlds apart from the wiiu RAM wise...even with the eDRAM
Can someone clarify this please?
And this is a great thread idea
eDRAM is slower than eSRAM and access is easier on eSRAM.
WiiU seems to have 32 MB of eDRAM.
JonathanPower
Member
This statement is kinda contradictory. It can't use such a huge amount of ram and be heavily optimized. The Xbox360 OS is what I'd call heavily optimized as it uses 32MB of RAM. I think the PS4 will have a similar OS to the PS3, and thus will use something around 50-64MB of RAM.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Some of you honestly think Sony of all people is going to release 2GB of ram while their competitor has 8. I feel like we be livin in twilight zones.
I don't thing 720 will use more than 768Mb of ram, most likely 512.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
We still have no idea what will actually be happening with the OS, though. It very well could have so many things running that it needs 1.5 GB of RAM.
Most of the consumption/reservation would be courtesy of kinect2.0 (rumoured).
gundamkyoukai
Member
Still the question remain is how is the speed going to effect things if one twice as fast .
Along with what MS doing with there OS .
Also was there not rumor about Sony cores at 3.2 in speed or maybe that old .
As for ram i think 4GB of GDDR5 should be enough we know 1st party devs going to build there engine around it .
Now which would be the better set up for 3rd party engines .
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
No one knows the performance of any of the GPUs and 680 levels seems like wishful thinking. Also the Orbis rumors are an APU and a dedicated GPU.
BloodMoney
Banned
Kung Fu Grip
Banned
Regardless if the PS4 has faster RAM than the 720, and the advantages that brings, having extra RAM to use, slow or not, with the 720 can only be a good thing for developers right? I mean it's nice that PS4's will be faster, but how is more slow RAM a bad thing?
And 4GB seems low now. We still have to worry about the OS. I think MS is smart going with 8GB of slow RAM.
And 4GB seems low now. We still have to worry about the OS. I think MS is smart going with 8GB of slow RAM.
Agreed, and they better get it right in the costs side and the power side.
Portugeezer
Member
Excluding whatever is reserved for OS, like the Wii U if that is the case, I would say 4GB at least is needed just for games.
Karak
Member
Ya there are some good considerations for various configs and its going to be a pretty fine line that they have to walk.
Can Crusher
Banned
Performance will have to be different. Ironically right now, at face value, I think the Ps4 sounds faster somehow.
But MS went through the troubles of designing this complex piece of hardware, that they must have something up their sleeve. How will the Gpus compare? CpU? Overall Ram performance?
So many questions.
But MS went through the troubles of designing this complex piece of hardware, that they must have something up their sleeve. How will the Gpus compare? CpU? Overall Ram performance?
So many questions.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
With all this dissection and analyzing of differences I bet somehow they both end up very similar and balanced out in different ways.
JonathanPower
Member
Well, according to this site, the notion of the WiiU having only 1GB available for games is wrong.
I don't know if the site is reliable, we still know so little about the WiiU.
The rumors were 4 and 8 for the PS4 and Nextbox respectively though. Plus bandwidth would be MASSIVELY different, with the Wii Us main memory at 12.8GB/s plus whatever the eDRAM can store. Plus the Wii U uses half exclusively for the OS. Even if the other two use 1GB for the OS too, that still leaves them with 3x-7x more memory as well as much faster memory.
Not really a benefactor at all. I think only doubling the previous generations RAM capacity available to games was a mistake, but we'll see how future games pan out.
No, we know from Nintendo themselves that 1GB is OS only, 1GB is games. Games can not use the 1GB dedicated to the OS, Nintendo themselves said this, why would they be wrong and this site with questionable sources be right? What your site may be referring to was that the PS360 don't have quite so much as 512 and 256/256 because some is used by the OS, but those use far slimmer operating systems at 45-60MB.
Honestly what the site is saying is laughable, when you launch a game can you shut down Windows and keep playing it? Games need the OS. That's how computing devices work. Even if the IO chip handles the OS, that still means the OS has to be stored in RAM.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
in fact the only definite we have right now is the wiiU will get shitted on hardware wise :/
More so than people initially thought.
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