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Metroid Prime trilogy director: 'Everything we do sucks'

Ravidrath

Member
Way to kill hype for your new game son.

He's not saying that it sucks, he's saying that all he can see are the problems.

This is how most devs feel about every project they're on - they know what they wanted to make, and they know what they ended up with, and all they can see is the difference between those two positions.

If you're ever on a team with someone that says the game is great all the time, they're a stupid Kool-Aid drinker and should be ignored and/or fired.
 
I'm surprised people are surprised by this. I know that's exactly how I am with anything creative I do. I can only see the flaws and think about how it should be better, and no matter how good people tell me it is, I'll never be able to see it from their perspective.

To put it in terms GAF might understand better, it's like watching the best movie ever on the best TV available... but there are a bunch of dead pixels. You can't even watch the movie because you're staring at the dead pixels.
I dunno, in my own experience I find it really rare for a talented person to think EVERYTHING they're involved in sucks. There's often the odd work or two or three they despise, but very rarely all of it, and especially not when they were met with critical acclaim.
 

flak57

Member
Loved prime until those ghost things popped up every time I revisited an area, and I eventually stopped playing. At that point I was no longer sucked into the atmosphere and didn't feel like I was just exploring this world that "existed" regardless of my presence. The part up until then was spectacular and I'll finish it eventually though.
 

Deku Tree

Member
Prime 1 was incredible on the cube, it was a graphical masterpiece for its time. After we got HD graphics and HDTV's I found it hard to play Prime 3. For me, 480p just doesn't cut it for this type of game when everyone else is doing 720p or 1080p IMO.
 

Jinfash

needs 2 extra inches
He is bitter he hasn't had any success after Metroid Prime.

It always happens... devs dish Nintendo and they fail. See Rare.
This is a joke post and you're a joke account.

"Biography: Nintendo fanboy"? Stahp. Please.
 

-Horizon-

Member
Prime 2 is my favorite of the trilogy. Then it goes Prime and finally Prime 3. Prime 2 just seemed to nail down that oppressive atmosphere and mood.
 
Well, Echoes and Corruption definitely aren't as great as a lot of people paint them. Don't get me wrong, they're solid games with really high production values, but there are plenty of iffy design choices that bog them down and make replays tedious. Prime is a much more balanced streamlined experience for the most part, although I think people tend to ignore that the quality of the level design drops of considerably in the home stretch (Phazon Mines, Impact Crater- not to mention the completely unnecessary fetch quest).

Seeing the progression of the games it's difficult not to come to the conclusion that Nintendo's heavy hand holding played considerably into the quality of the first Prime. Imo it's the only one that even begins to touch upon the complex harmony of Super Metroid's map. There are those who talk up Echoes, but I find it obtuse to no good end. The number of cul-de-sacs and dead ends is maddening, and the inclusion of holo-decoders and keys mixed with paths that hermetically seal behind you for some obscure reason make traversal a slog and dampen the sense of true exploration. Part of the genius of Metroid is that progression is tied directly to ability. Every suit upgrade doubles as a key of sorts, opening up new paths or play styles. So why put in literal key/lock situations where the collected items serve no other purpose? It's like using two stones to kill one bird. :p Thematically Echoes is probably my favorite Prime (with the best bosses), but they really screwed the pooch on traversal and progression imo.

Corruption is a hodge podge. A visually striking one, and with (mostly) good controls, but a hodge podge nonetheless. The complete lack of inter-connectivity between the major areas is antithetical to what Metroid is about. I know some would contend that makes me a purist, but I'd rather be a purist and see the integrity of one of my favorite franchises preserved than talk myself into thinking catering to the lowest common denominator is some inspired creative departure. There are actually moments of brilliance sprinkled throughout MP3, but for every high point there's some shitty NPC ruining the atmosphere, some boss tucked in the same cut and paste environment requiring the same strafe/shoot/strafe/shoot pattern to beat, or worse yet a fucking computer ordering Samus around (a depressingly common theme these days in a series that built its reputation on freedom of exploration and lack of hand holding). Corruption strikes me as a game with great execution, but built upon a shallow foundation, and lacking a true vision for the franchise.

So I can't say the games suck, but there's definitely reason for Pacini to self reflect and own some of the shortcomings of the series. That's something I can respect. When there's obvious talent like Retro behind a project it begs the question why certain things go awry or what the decision making process is. I have my own thoughts and theories, but it's always interesting to hear something straight from the horse's mouth.
 

Thaedolus

Member
+1 Prime 2 being the best. It took fans longer to come around, but I think it's starting to become a consensus that Prime 2 nailed it. So good with Wii controls and widescreen...
 
Being critical of your own work is good, but it is kind of a dick move to say that when so many other people worked on these games

Either way I really, really want their Batman game

While it's common to critique oneself's work, I agree with the bolded. This was an unwise comment by him to voice publicly...he should have kept it to himself. Other people on the team who were pleased with the fruits of their labor might get rubbed the wrong way. There is a reason why most professionals who are critical of their own projects tend to stick to the "there's always room for improvement" angle.
 
2d Metroids >>>>> Primes this is fact, anyway Primes still stand as some of the best 3d action adventures of the last genertion, even if lacking true genius like the best 2d entries.
 
Definitely. Factual. No opinions here, motherfuckers!
I should really just start making one sentence posts, preferably drive by style. One, because it's apparently what cool guys do, and two, because that seems to be all others read and latch onto anyway, regardless of how one qualifies a statement. And like, anything else would take effort. Responding in earnest to the actual content of what someone is saying? Ew.
 
He is going live a stressful creative life but many creative people do no matter how much their work is enjoyed and admired.

Certainly not a bad thing for gamers. Sounds like the kind of person that will make complete use of development time ironing out things til the last minute.

What was the development time for MP2? Wikipedia (citing an Iwata Asks) mentions:
Producer Kensuke Tanabe later revealed that the game was just about thirty percent complete three months before the strict deadline Nintendo had set for a release in the 2004 holiday season.
Sound like they were under quite the time crunch and unlike quick sequels like Majora's Mask they probably didn't get to reuse as many assets.
 
I should really just start making one sentence posts, preferably drive by style. One, because it's apparently what cool guys do, and two, because that seems to be all others read and latch onto anyway, regardless of how one qualifies a statement. And like, anything else would take effort. responding to the actual content of what someone is saying? Ew.

I read your entire post and I even agree with most of it. I don't agree with stating opinion as fact however. Though, if this wasn't your intent, do accept my apology.
 

JDSN

Banned
He was going for fake humbleness, but he might have tried too hard on that last "sucked" bit and ended up coming off as a dick considering all people involved in the Prime games.
 

AniHawk

Member
i am not so critical of my work that i can't see anything but faults, but i do remember one art book i made where i came up with a better solution to part of it after the product had shipped. as you grow, you tend to look back on previous work as being sloppy and unrefined.

but that's okay. what matters is that when you're done, you've done it to the best of your ability at the time.

metroid prime feels like a very purposefully designed game. there are a lot of things about it that make sense logically, and i can follow the designers in their decisons. i'm not saying the level design itself is special, but i can at least understand the whys and hows. while i don't enjoy the game, i can at least appreciate the craftsmanship that went into it.

corruption is something a little sloppier, but that kinda helped the end product. in being experimental and looser, they were able to make the game a lot more fast-paced at the expense of some other parts of the game- notably the backtracking, which was much more fluid in the first and second metroid prime games.
 
I read your entire post and I even agree with most of it. I don't agree with stating opinion as fact however. Though, if this wasn't your intent, do accept my apology.
Right on. Definitely not my intent. The very next line is "don't get me wrong", followed by a hopefully more thoughtful analysis of why I feel that way, peppered with qualifiers like "imo" and "I have my own thoughts and theories". The fact that I have strong opinions isn't lost on me, but I always try to articulate the reasons why, and I never claim absolute authority. Imo it should be obvious that you're reading an opinion when there's a declarative statement like that. We're taking about pretty subjective stuff, not cold hard facts. So while I believe what I believe strongly (because I've actually thought on it before I speak), I'm not putting my foot down and claiming there's no room for debate. In fact, if someone with a different take is passionate and well spoken, I invite it.

edit: Although it is a fact that anyone who disagrees with me is a poopyhead. Full stop.
 

hatchx

Banned
Metroid Prime is my favorite game ever, and in my opinion has some of the best science fiction narrative in any media. The way the story is told to the player has a lot of emotion. You are literally visiting the planet which raised you, and you are fulfilling a prophecy on a planet that has been infected by phazon. It's friggin' brilliant.
 

Servbot24

Banned
Well every artists looks upon their old work with a critical eye.

But Metroid Prime is the greatest game ever made, so he's quite wrong. The other two games are pretty good too.
 

Servbot24

Banned
The wiimote control was great. The only thing that made MP3 bad was the terrible NPCs and story-driven progression. Those god-awful character designs make me not trust Retro with a new IP.
 

BlackJace

Member
Metroid_prime_box_art.jpg

You gave us one of, if not, the greatest game of all time. I would like to live in a world where games of that caliber are labelled as "suck".
 

faridmon

Member
Selective quoting, OP. *shakes head*

If you read what he says, he is critical of his own works and that is separates between an avarage director and a good one. You should always see your flaws to reach your best. He maybe a bit too pessimistic, but he thinks that he could have done better.

Also, He says that MP2 was divisive, MP1 was the best designed whilst MP3 was the most fun. That is quite correct actually.
 
There are actors who have literally never watched anything they've been in. It's not unusual. I think being endlessly critical of what you've done is very useful to a degree, though it is a shame when the general consensus is that Retro are pretty much spot-on with all their projects.

That said, if they thought Metroid Prime sucked... I do have a little bit of worry for how Batman will turn out!


huh?
 

Haunted

Member
This is a pretty common outlook of someone who creates things. They see all the missed potential, where we see all the stuff that was fit to ship. Nothing out of the ordinary here.

I did find his analysis of the 3 prime games as seen by the public to be pretty spot on. Also, if he's of the opinion that the primes sucked, I feel like he's got a pretty high bar for himself, which bodes well for batman.
After the initial "huh", this is how I understood it as well.

Well, and also that MP2 was very rushed by deadlines/Nintendo.
 
I think a lot of people have trouble understanding the creative process here.

It's not that he's saying that the game sucks, he said that IN HIS EYES they all suck. That's a very, very different statement. There's a very good chance he never played the final version of Prime or just can't play it 'the right way' anymore because the development of it tainted him and he's still seeing errors were there aren't any.

Francis Ford Coppola thought that Godfather was a total piece of a shit film and thought it'd be an abysmal failure after he saw The French Connection. Then it went on to become a film that people still talk about now, 30 years later.

Creating is one thing, 'just' experiencing it is another.

So what you guys all have a problem with is that he's just stating his feelings in an honest, down to earth way. And that's kinda screwed up. Get over yourself.
 

SykoTech

Member
The series did get worse with each entry. And Prime 3's control scheme did indeed suck.

Games certainly didn't suck overall though. Prime 1 in particular is incredible, as is 2 outside of the tedious tracking through the dark world. Nothing to get mad over though. Hopefully they each even greater heights in the future.
 

IrishNinja

Member
i know it reuses areas, but...Prime 2 was so complex. push past the early bits and you have a really great game, was surprised to see so many fans of the series lay into it
 
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