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Smash Bros Brawl Dojo Official Update Thread: Goodbye, Cherry-don

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S

Somnid

Member
kirbutashi said:
I wouldn't doubt that he probably hangs out on that purple bit behind the main platform and steps off when it lands. It would be more awesome to have him fly around, but I'm willing to guess that every level has his placement in mind. What I'm curious about is how he'll play out in the single player levels.
Click to expand...

Single player levels seem contrived for whatever you are doing at the moment so obviously if you are playing as Trainer then the level will be designed to accommodate him.

EktorPR said:
I don't remember much about the original Smash Bros., so...what "intro animations" are you reffering to, anyway?
Click to expand...

I the original Smash Bros each character had a short intro animation during the the countdown. Cpt. Falcon jumps out of his racer, Pkemon explode out of pokeballs, Link slowly descends from a pillar of light, Mario pops out of a pipe etc.
 
A

Ashodin

Member
Pokemon Trainer locations:

stage02_070601d-l.jpg

Second set of stairs for the Trainer, marked with two red lines to seperate actual characters from the Trainer moving.

stage03_070612d-l.jpg

See where the snow is behind the main platform? Trainer stands there. On this stage, there are floating platforms, so the Trainer most likely commands from only this spot.

stage04_070622d-l.jpg

In the background of the ship, there's a little white line crossing the bottom portion - where the Trainer would go, I assume.

stage05_070706b-l.jpg

If you look by Samus' shadow, the characters are only on the front half of the Bridge (the half closest to you, the player). Trainer stands behind. Questions about what happens to him when the bridge crumbles.

stage06_070713d-l.jpg

There's a little rugged dirt path -just- behind the main thoroughfare on the stage. Trainer stands there.

stage08_070725b-l.jpg

The MAIN platform breaks on this stage, but there's background stage for the Trainer to stand on that doesn't break.
 
Z

Zeed

Banned
EktorPR said:
I don't remember much about the original Smash Bros., so...what "intro animations" are you reffering to, anyway?
Click to expand...
In Melee the characters would just be trophies that come to life. In the original Smash Bros. each character had a unique introduction - Mario would jump out of a pipe, Pikachu emerge from a Pokeball, Ness warp in using teleport, etc. The trophy theme seems to be intact for Brawl though, so I wouldn't get my hopes up.
 
E

EktorPR

Member
Somnid said:
In the original Smash Bros each character had a short intro animation during the the countdown. Cpt. Falcon jumps out of his racer, Pokemon explode out of pokeballs, Link slowly descends from a pillar of light, Mario pops out of a pipe etc.
Click to expand...

Wow, yeah...I remember now. I guess it was cool since each character had his/her personal entrance to the fray, but I didn't miss it much in Melee. I'd love for it to come back, though.
 
H

hirokazu

Member
kirbutashi said:
stage02_070601b-l.jpg

I wouldn't doubt that he probably hangs out on that purple bit behind the main platform and steps off when it lands. It would be more awesome to have him fly around, but I'm willing to guess that every level has his placement in mind. What I'm curious about is how he'll play out in the single player levels.
Click to expand...

that looks like a pretty viable spot... especially since it has room to fit 4 trainers if everyone decides to pick Pokemon Trainer. seems like most people have been pre-occupied with where just the one trainer could be put, let alone four.

Maxrpg said:
Pokemon Trainer locations:
stage06_070713d-l.jpg

There's a little rugged dirt path -just- behind the main thoroughfare on the stage. Trainer stands there.
Click to expand...

i'm not sure... the backdrop to Smashville seems completely disconnected from the actual stage, and it resembles the tiny-sphere style world in Wild World:

stage06_070713a-l.jpg


the dirt track isn't part of the stage the characters themselves fight on, which looks like it'll be moving around the backdrop. if anything, i think the trainers will be standing amongst the AC characters on that stage.
 
C

Cosmonaut X

Member
Just to try and get an idea of where we stand with characters, would this be a reasonable summary:

[CONFIRMED]

- Mario
- Link
- Donkey Kong
- Yoshi
- Pikachu
- Kirby
- Fox
- Samus Aran
- Bowser
- Zelda
- Pit
- Wario
- Zero Suit Samus
- Ike
- Pokemon Trainer

[SEMI-CONFIRMED]

- Peach (appearance in Subspace Emissary cutscene)
- Meta Knight (appearance in multiple Dojo entries and promo material)
- Solid Snake (appearance in promo material)

[POSSIBLE]

- Luigi (appeared in all previous SSB games)
- Jigglypuff (appeared in all previous SSB games)
- Captain Falcon (appeared in all previous SSB games)
- Ness (appeared in all previous SSB games)
- Ganondorf (model apparently supplied by Zelda team)
- Sheik (model apparently supplied by Zelda team)
- Sonic (hinted at many times)
- Animal Crossing character (an AC stage and item are confirmed; an AC
character seems possible)
- Ice Climbers (space left in "world" numbering)
- Mr. Game & Watch (space left in "world" numbering)

[OTHERS]

- Pichu
- Mewtwo
- Marth
- Dr. Mario (clone) *
- Young Link (clone) *
- Roy (clone) *
- Falco (clone) *

* It seems to me that these clone characters seem to be the ones at most risk of removal in favour of new fighters.

Any additions or corrections?
 
H

hirokazu

Member
i think all the clones will be cut. Pichu included.

all the rest will probably stay, though i wouldn't be surprised if Mewtwo, Game & Watch and a few others not confirmed yet are cut. the two remaining spaces could well be new franchises since they're between the end of the SSBM "section" of numbering and the start of the Newcomer numbering
 
F

Firestorm

Member
You know what'd be awesome? A clone of Red. Blue, and he can have a few different Pokemon >.> Same attacks, but behaving differently. Or Diamond (Pearl?) with Infernape, Grotle, and Piplup.
 
Z

Zeed

Banned
Cosmonaut X said:
[OTHERS]

- Pichu
- Mewtwo
- Marth
- Dr. Mario (clone)
- Young Link (clone)
- Roy (clone)
- Falco (clone)

* All of these characters seem to be the ones at most risk of removal in favour of new fighters.

Any additions or corrections?
Click to expand...
Everything looks good except this part. I object to Mewtwo and Marth's placement on the list. Marth is a unique character and also the symbol of Fire Emblem in Japan. He's iconic, already popular from his appearance in Melee, and has his own moveset. I would be shocked if he's gone. Also we have no reason at all to believe that Mewtwo has been removed, he was quite a distinct and unique character in Melee.
 
J

JKBii

Member
CreatureX3 said:
According to Sakurai, if you use one pokemon for too long or if you switch between them too quickly, the pokemon will lose their stamina.
Click to expand...
Yea that's the problem. You need to master the feel of three different characters in order to use Pokemon Trainer. Imagine if you needed to master the controls of Bowser and Mario to play as Peach.
 
Christopher

Christopher

Member
Why on earth would the clones be cut? From what I've seen Samauri or whatever is making this game fan service to the tenth degree - so why not cut a few corners and making way for some easy characters that the fans love?
 
F

flipping_heck

Member
I dont get why some people think Mewtwo will get the drop, as a SSB character he is unique, he is popular among the gaming world and even though he was weak in SSBM, a good MS with some upgrades could make him playable.
 
C

Cosmonaut X

Member
Christopher said:
Why on earth would the clones be cut? From what I've seen Samauri or whatever is making this game fan service to the tenth degree - so why not cut a few corners and making way for some easy characters that the fans love?
Click to expand...

Sakurai...

And the reason some people think clones are up for the chop is that he said that it's likely that not all characters from Melee will make it into Brawl. While that might mean he's thinking about cutting Peach or the Ice Climbers, surely it's far more likely that clones like Roy or Dr Mario are at risk? Perhaps he's changed his mind, but all we've got to go on so far is what he's said & what has been announced.

I dont get why some people think Mewtwo will get the drop
Click to expand...

I object to Mewtwo and Marth's placement on the list
Click to expand...

Mewtwo I left on there because it has had one appearance & we've heard nothing so far to suggest it's back in. Same goes for Marth, although I'd suggest that Ike's inclusion perhaps also weights the scales against his return.

I tried to keep the list as close to what we know as possible, only adding characters to the possibles where we had some hints that they were returning (Aonuma's interview, for example) or where it seemed very likely that they would (characters like Luigi or Jigglypuff who have been in the series since the start).
 
V

Version 3.0

Member
Marth is gone. He's been replaced by Ike. It's obvious. Not trying to be mean (I'm still biting my nails over Ganon), but I'll be really surprised if Marth sticks around.
 
C

Cosmonaut X

Member
SovanJedi said:
Why would Peach be cut? She was in that video for the Subspace Emmisary.
Click to expand...

I just threw the name in there as an example to make the point that, while Sakurai could have been talking about characters like Peach not returning, I thought it more likely clones would be in the firing line.
 
L

Linkhero1

Member
I liked the update for a reason. Now we know they won't be cramming too many Pokemon as playable characters in the game besides Jigglypuff, Pikachu, and possibly Mewtwo.
 
Mighty

Mighty

Member
Linkhero1 said:
I liked the update for a reason. Now we know they won't be cramming too many Pokemon as playable characters in the game besides Jigglypuff, Pikachu, and possibly Mewtwo.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I was afraid there were going to be too many pokemon as well, but the new trainer sounds like a great idea.
 
M

Mgoblue201

Won't stop picking the right nation
So how are they going to get back on the stage once they're knocked off? I could see Charizard flying, but the other two?

I was also hoping that this would be a kind of way to "get rid" of Pichu and Mewtwo without "getting rid" of them, but it looks like those are the only three Pokemon he has.
 
G

Gekkonidae

Member
It's interesting that they've started introducing new characters. It makes me suspect that we've seen all of the returning characters that aren't unlockable.
 
C

Cosmonaut X

Member
Mgoblue201 said:
So how are they going to get back on the stage once they're knocked off? I could see Charizard flying, but the other two?
Click to expand...

Perhaps something like:

Squirtle - Rapid Spin (a speedy rotation to gain height) or Hydro Pump (squirt water down to propel itself upward)

Ivysaur - Vine Whip (perhaps striking out with vines to clamber back up?)
 
C

cvxfreak

Member
The problem with the prospect of all characters from Melee returning is that some of them have become less relevant in the last 6 years. There have been 5 Fire Emblem titles and 2 Pokemon generations since 2001; Roy was in Melee even before he was in Fire Emblem. Hell, I wonder if Ness would make it back in, or if Nintendo would opt for a Mother 3 character instead. In the 2007 context, if Nintendo could find substitutes, then I can understand why some characters won't return.
 
F

Firestorm

Member
cvxfreak said:
The problem with the prospect of all characters from Melee returning is that some of them have become less relevant in the last 6 years. There have been 5 Fire Emblem titles and 2 Pokemon generations since 2001; Roy was in Melee even before he was in Fire Emblem. Hell, I wonder if Ness would make it back in, or if Nintendo would opt for a Mother 3 character instead. In the 2007 context, if Nintendo could find substitutes, then I can understand why some characters won't return.
Click to expand...

But the other thing is that the old characters are much easier to implement as they already have movesets made for them.
 
T

Testicular Sound Express

Member
Leondexter said:
Marth is gone. He's been replaced by Ike. It's obvious. Not trying to be mean (I'm still biting my nails over Ganon), but I'll be really surprised if Marth sticks around.
Click to expand...
ganondorf was already confirmed by Aonuma.

I thinkt hey should replace MewTwo with Lucario.
 
Z

Zeed

Banned
Cosmonaut X said:
Mewtwo I left on there because it has had one appearance & we've heard nothing so far to suggest it's back in.
Click to expand...
The same could be said of a half dozen other Melee characters, the absence of evidence is not evidence.

Leondexter said:
Marth is gone. He's been replaced by Ike. It's obvious. Not trying to be mean (I'm still biting my nails over Ganon), but I'll be really surprised if Marth sticks around.
Click to expand...
reputation_pos.gif
Leondexter
Will the whining loser
be eating his words?
(Today, 07:11 PM)
Reply | Quote
 
S

Scalpel Knight

Member
Testicular Sound Express said:
that would be awesome if the 3 starters of r/b, g/s, and r/s could be changed through costume.
Click to expand...
It would be, though I don't see that happening because there would have to be completely new Pokemon models and animations for at least some of the moves. That seems unlikely to me.
 
R

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
cvxfreak said:
The problem with the prospect of all characters from Melee returning is that some of them have become less relevant in the last 6 years. There have been 5 Fire Emblem titles and 2 Pokemon generations since 2001; Roy was in Melee even before he was in Fire Emblem. Hell, I wonder if Ness would make it back in, or if Nintendo would opt for a Mother 3 character instead. In the 2007 context, if Nintendo could find substitutes, then I can understand why some characters won't return.
Click to expand...


Well, Pokemon Fire Red is also kind of an old game by now, but the trainer and the characters are taken from it, same with Kid Icarus, old franchise sure, but the character is iconic so he was brought up.

I could see a nod to Pikmin, either on characters or assists. Also I think Luigi will be more unique and spot some Luigi's Mansion weaponry. Peach will also have some Super Princess Peach attacks. I also expect some Advance Wars love and maaaaybe Punch Out, although thats a stretch.
 
T

Twig

Banned
Zeed said:
The same could be said of a half dozen other Melee characters, the absence of evidence is not evidence.
Click to expand...
Chill, dude, it's not like he said they're 100% not going to be in Brawl. He just said those characters have the highest chance. And if you think about it logically, he's right.

He even bolded "so far" to show it wasn't a guarantee, just a likelihood!
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
Leondexter said:
Marth is gone. He's been replaced by Ike. It's obvious. Not trying to be mean (I'm still biting my nails over Ganon), but I'll be really surprised if Marth sticks around.
Click to expand...

Considering how Ike seems to have his own attacks, rather than Marth's, he isn't replacing anyone.

If they do take out Marth, they'll just be wasting a perfectly good moveset... And it would be really weird to eliminate the series' designated symbol (Marth's sword) from the game.
 
Z

Zeed

Banned
TheOneGuy said:
He just said those characters have the highest chance. And if you think about it logically, he's right.
Click to expand...
No he's not. On what grounds would you speculate Marth's removal? He has a unique moveset (Roy is the clone, and the one I would expect to get the axe), he's a popular character, and he's an icon of the series.

Not saying it couldn't happen, but it's not any more likely that Marth will be removed than, say, Ness.
 
R

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
NeonZ said:
Considering how Ike seems to have his own attacks, rather than Marth's, he isn't replacing anyone.

If they do take out Marth, they'll just be wasting a perfectly good moveset... And it would be really weird to take out the series' designated symbol (Marth's sword) out of the game.
Click to expand...


Yeah but they look 80 percent the same, these things matter in game design, you know
 
C

Cosmonaut X

Member
TheOneGuy said:
Chill, dude, it's not like he said they're 100% not going to be in Brawl. He just said those characters have the highest chance. And if you think about it logically, he's right.

He even bolded "so far" to show it wasn't a guarantee, just a likelihood!
Click to expand...

...and because Zeed made a good point, I've tweaked my original post a little. I'd still be inclined to leave Mewtwo & Marth in [OTHERS] if only because they haven't been mentioned or hinted at for Brawl (whereas Ganondorf and Sonic have), but I think it's fair to say they have a greater chance of reappearing than the clones.

Not saying it couldn't happen, but it's not any more likely that Marth will be removed than, say, Ness.
Click to expand...

Dunno - I tend to go for favouring characters who have been there from the outset, so if it came down to Ness or Marth, I'd bet on Marth going. As I said though, you make a good case for those characters.
 
J

jiangjunizzy

Banned
the fact that they look similar is such a stupid fucking reason to say theyre not going to be in the game. an overdose of fire emblem characters? maybe. a similar moveset? maybe. but that they look the same? no.
 
W

WastingPenguins

Member
Firestorm said:
pikachu.jpg


Now shut the fuck up about Marth.
Click to expand...

To be fair, those are both the same animal. EVERYONE knows who Pikachu is, and I don't think it's very hard for people to grasp the concept of Pikachu and Baby Pikachu. It makes sense for them to look so similar.

Fire Emblem characters are a whole different story. From my experience, 9/10 people who own Melee have no idea who Marth or Roy is, and have no idea what games they originated from. If I tell them "Fire Emblem", I can't expect much more than a blank stare. From my experience, a surprising number of casual Smash players (i.e. ones who don't frequent game forums) would have to guess which one was Marth and which Roy if you showed them side by side pictures. They don't know who the characters are to begin with so they can't seem to remember which is which.

IMO, Marth's outfit would have to see some definite changes if they keep him around. They just look too similar. My problem is that I don't play Fire Emblem, so I have a question-- COULD they change Marth's costume and maintain his character? Does he ever wear different clothes in the FE games?

Or is his outfit an integral part of his character, like Mario's overalls and hat or Link's green tunic, etc.? I'm guessing it is, but I'm still curious.
 
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