Support NeoGAF

HeadsUpSevenUp · Aug 21, 2007

Don't know if it was mentioned, but KH: CoM was on GBA, so we could get Sora or Heartless from there. However I don't know if Disney hold the rights to them or just their own characters in the game.

Flame me if old. I love the pain.

mmmmmm

Thunder Monkey · Aug 21, 2007

HeadsUpSevenUp said:
Flame me if old. I love the pain.

mmmmmm

*puts out a cigarette on the back of Heads leg*

Strange strange people here.

*walks off*

Rancid Mildew · Aug 21, 2007

HeadsUpSevenUp said:
Don't know if it was mentioned, but KH: CoM was on GBA, so we could get Sora or Heartless from there. However I don't know if Disney hold the rights to them or just their own characters in the game.

Flame me if old. I love the pain.

mmmmmm

He was also one of the wanted characters on the fan poll revealed by Sakurai and Shimomura is also one of the Brawl conductors. I think Sora has a real chance of making it into Brawl.

Zerodoppler · Aug 21, 2007

Still waiting for the custom soundtrack feature to be revealed. It needs to happen.

Zeed · Aug 21, 2007

Rancid Mildew said:
He was also one of the wanted characters on the fan poll revealed by Sakurai and Shimomura is also one of the Brawl conductors. I think Sora has a real chance of making it into Brawl.

Of all the Squaresoft characters they might add, I do think Sora is most likely. But that might just be me.

KINGMOKU · Aug 21, 2007

Gowans007 said:
Looks like a healthy roster!

I choose to belive this is real.

50 choices? THIS IS REAL.

fernoca · Aug 21, 2007

The character select screen is fake..for now..
-Black background, when the official site hinted at a white background.
-Captain Falcon and Yoshi using the same render from Melee (not even from GX in the case of Falcon)
-Ganondorf face being from a scene in Twilight Princess (not an actual render)
-No cursor/button on top of the character that was chosen
-The game mode seems to be "3 (or 5?)-man survival feast" yet there are 4 characters chosen.

But who knows..

Rancid Mildew · Aug 21, 2007

Zeed said:
Of all the Squaresoft characters they might add, I do think Sora is most likely. But that might just be me.

I feel the same way. Half of my certainty might just be baseless hope though.

ShockingAlberto · Aug 21, 2007

Also, Wario's grouped with Mario's franchise for some reason.

bigmakstudios · Aug 21, 2007

He was also one of the wanted characters on the fan poll revealed by Sakurai and Shimomura is also one of the Brawl conductors. I think Sora has a real chance of making it into Brawl.

i really hope not, unless Wii is the future home of the main Kingdom Hearts series.

SuperAngelo64 · Aug 21, 2007

I know the pic is obviously fake but am I the only one who sees 50 characters as an entirely realistic number? I would expect at LEAST 45 for this game...

gimz · Aug 21, 2007

Firestorm said:
:lol

Sakurai's way of saying "**** you Miyamoto, my guy's in charge"

i thought kirby was created by Iwata?

Jiggy · Aug 21, 2007

Zerodoppler said:
Still waiting for the custom soundtrack feature to be revealed. It needs to happen.

I agree, and expect this. I don't see how a guy like Sakurai, who puts in four control styles just for the sake of providing options, would neglect a feature used by other Wii games.

Edit:

SuperAngelo64 said:
I know the pic is obviously fake but am I the only one who sees 50 characters as an entirely realistic number? I would expect at LEAST 45 for this game...

Melee added 14 (counting Sheik), so I'm expecting around 14 new first-party characters, then 3-4 third-party. If some of the old characters are cut out, I think 40 is a reasonable number to hit. Especially if there are any more characters like Pokemon Trainer who (to me at least) count as three.

More importantly... As of today, the Dojo updates have only been going for three months and we've got eighteen character profiles (again, if Pokemon Trainer counts as three). Even if I reduce it to sixteen by counting PT as one, or to fourteen since the two-in-one updates of Mario/Link and Kirby/Pikachu won't be happening again, that rate would yield 28 revealed characters before Brawl is released.

It seems like one of two things has to be true: Character profile updates will slow down drastically in the future, or there are a metric ton of characters in SSBB. I'm hoping for the latter. >_>

Cosmonaut X · Aug 21, 2007

SuperAngelo64 said:
I know the pic is obviously fake but am I the only one who sees 50 characters as an entirely realistic number? I would expect at LEAST 45 for this game...

At least 45? That's getting on for TWENTY more characters than appeared in SSBM. I know SSBM doubled the number of characters over SSB, but twenty-plus new characters is a big ask...

Azure Dream · Aug 21, 2007

You have a good point about no cursors (unless they all blink in sync, and the photo just "happened" to catch them on the off-blink), but one thing I think you got wrong...

fernoca said:
-The game mode seems to be "3 (or 5?)-man survival feast" yet there are 4 characters chosen.

That's usually where the time is listed in Melee, I think it says "3-min survival test!" (or "fest").

KINGMOKU · Aug 21, 2007

Now that we know there are 50 playable peeps, how many third-party charactors will there be?

Man this game is going to be awesome for next years camping trip.

Firestorm · Aug 21, 2007

SuperAngelo64 said:
I know the pic is obviously fake but am I the only one who sees 50 characters as an entirely realistic number? I would expect at LEAST 45 for this game...

Sakurai said that they struggled to get as many characters as they did in Melee. 50 would mean they'd be adding twice as many. Not only that, but balancing the characters gets harder and harder the more characters you add.

Game-Biz · Aug 21, 2007

That pic is such bullshit.

C'mon GAF.

ant1532 · Aug 21, 2007

Game-Biz said:
That pic is such bullshit.

C'mon GAF.

.

Zeed · Aug 21, 2007

gimz said:
i thought kirby was created by Iwata?

No. Kirby is Sakurai's signature character, like Miyamoto to Mario.

JKBii · Aug 21, 2007

I think everybody has their own story. Like if you play as Kirby you'll fight Petey, if you play as Mario you'll start out unconscious in Snake's or Wario's or somebody else's world, if you play as Peach or Zelda you'll see a video of Kirby defeating Petey and then you'll chase down whoever brought him.

From the looks of things, this single player mode would be a great game on its own.

ant1532 · Aug 21, 2007

gimz said:
i thought kirby was created by Iwata?

Well he helped make the game while he worked at HAL

BGBW · Aug 21, 2007

Game-Biz said:
That pic is such bullshit.

C'mon GAF.

Well the lack of Peach in the image, who we know is in the game gives that away.

Jiggy · Aug 21, 2007

Game-Biz said:
That pic is such bullshit.

C'mon GAF.

Shall we count the ways?
-Wario between Luigi and Bowser.
-Peach as "unlockable" between Bowser and Yoshi.
-Last row so much smaller than the others.
-Mario, Kirby, Link, and Samus haven't historically been the faces of Smash. Mario, Kirby, Link, and Pikachu have been, from the E3 trailer--and so have Mario, Kirby, Peach, and Zelda, from Subspace Emissary.
-Looks pretty much like the SSBM character select screen.
-Disproportionate number of question mark boxes.

It's just too easy.

worldrunover · Aug 21, 2007

Jiggy37 said:
Shall we count the ways?
-Wario between Luigi and Bowser.
-Peach as "unlockable" between Bowser and Yoshi.
-Last row so much smaller than the others.
-Mario, Kirby, Link, and Samus haven't historically been the faces of Smash. Mario, Kirby, Link, and Pikachu have been, from the E3 trailer--and so have Mario, Kirby, Peach, and Zelda, from Subspace Emissary.
-Looks pretty much like the SSBM character select screen.
-Disproportionate number of question mark boxes.

It's just too easy.

Fernoca's reasons were much more compelling as to why this is fake.

Either way, still fake.

Zeed · Aug 21, 2007

Come to think about it, I wonder what kind of legacy Sakurai will have. Miyamoto is Nintendo's legend (a well earned position too), but Sakurai has a reputation for excellence that persists even after going out on his own. He's really dedicated to making good games, and was willing to leave Nintendo when they forced him to make crap (Kirby's Air Ride). After seeing his work on Melee, Meteos, and Brawl, I'm very interested in seeing what else he can do when calling his own shots.

jiangjunizzy · Aug 21, 2007

all characters that aren't hidden are usually grouped up in the middle too.. there wouldnt be much logic to separating them in such a messy manner.

Firestorm · Aug 21, 2007

gimz said:
i thought kirby was created by Iwata?

No. Iwata just helped with the game (Miyamoto and maybe Iwata are also responsible for making him Pink instead of Yellow). Sakurai is the character designer of Kirby and the creator of both the Kirby and Smash Bros. franchises.

He's also God.

Jiggy · Aug 21, 2007

worldrunover said:
Fernoca's reasons were much more compelling as to why this is fake.

Either way, still fake.

I was trying to leave out things already mentioned. I see I was beaten to Peach, though.

Zeed · Aug 21, 2007

Firestorm said:
No. Iwata just helped with the game (Miyamoto and maybe Iwata are also responsible for making him Pink instead of Yellow). Sakurai is the character designer of Kirby and the creator of both the Kirby and Smash Bros. franchises.

He's also God.

This just slipped off the last page:

Come to think about it, I wonder what kind of legacy Sakurai will have. Miyamoto is Nintendo's legend (a well earned position too), but Sakurai has a reputation for excellence that persists even after going out on his own. He's really dedicated to making good games, and was willing to leave Nintendo when they forced him to make crap (Kirby's Air Ride). After seeing his work on Melee, Meteos, and Brawl, I'm very interested in seeing what else he can do when calling his own shots.

A Link to the Past · Aug 21, 2007

I'm predicting...

Unlocked:

Mario
Wario
Princess Peach
Donkey Kong
Yoshi
Bowser
Pikachu
Link
Princess Zelda
Kirby
Samus Aran
Fox McCloud
Captain Falcon
Ness (or Lucas, if Ness is replaced)
Pit

Locked:

Pokémon Trainer
Ike
Meta Knight
Solid Snake

So if I'm correct, that means that there's at least one more unlocked character than in the last game. If Ice Climbers remain, and they have the same number of characters added as unlocked as they did in Melee (four), that means that we'd have two more default characters.

But I'm just rambling.

A Link to the Past · Aug 21, 2007

Firestorm said:
No. Iwata just helped with the game (Miyamoto and maybe Iwata are also responsible for making him Pink instead of Yellow). Sakurai is the character designer of Kirby and the creator of both the Kirby and Smash Bros. franchises.

He's also God.

Miyamoto wanted him yellow.

Zeed said:
This just slipped off the last page:

You know, I never really understood his reasoning - how many spin-offs has Kirby ever had? Kirby Air Ride, Avalanche, Super Star Stacker, Pinball Land, Dream Course, and Block Ball. Avalanche was just a Kirby skin on Puyo Puyo, Dream Course was a Kirby-related remake of a generic golf game, and only Air Ride was a big budget Kirby spin-off.

I respect that he may have been annoyed by having to work on KAR, but he didn't have it THAT bad.

Zeed · Aug 21, 2007

A Link to the Snitch said:
You know, I never really understood his reasoning - how many spin-offs has Kirby ever had? Kirby Air Ride, Avalanche, Super Star Stacker, Pinball Land, Dream Course, and Block Ball. Avalanche was just a Kirby skin on Puyo Puyo, Dream Course was a Kirby-related remake of a generic golf game, and only Air Ride was a big budget Kirby spin-off.

I respect that he may have been annoyed by having to work on KAR, but he didn't have it THAT bad.

It's probably more complicated than it just being a spinoff (Sakurai's second game was in fact a Kirby pinball spinoff). We know that Sakurai originally intended to have the game on the N64, but under mysterious circumstances the game was scrapped and moved to the Gamecube, where the final product just wasn't very good. I'm trying to find out what exactly Sakurai said in that interview where he openly criticized Nintendo, but all I'm getting is that he was upset about the "circumstances surrounding the development". I think that this might have been another "Starfox Adventures" incident, where Nintendo bureaucracy screwed up a game in spite of the developer. I don't believe that Sakurai would've left on a whim.

Raging Spaniard · Aug 21, 2007

A Link to the Snitch said:
Dream Course was a Kirby-related remake of a generic golf game\

Is there a fact to that? Dream Course is one of my favorite games of all time, and easily the best golf based game

WordAssassin · Aug 21, 2007

A Link to the Snitch said:
I'm predicting...

Unlocked:

Mario
Wario
Princess Peach
Donkey Kong
Yoshi
Bowser
Pikachu
Link
Princess Zelda
Kirby
Samus Aran
Fox McCloud
Captain Falcon
Ness (or Lucas, if Ness is replaced)
Pit

Locked:

Pokémon Trainer
Ike
Meta Knight
Solid Snake

So if I'm correct, that means that there's at least one more unlocked character than in the last game. If Ice Climbers remain, and they have the same number of characters added as unlocked as they did in Melee (four), that means that we'd have two more default characters.

But I'm just rambling.

Pokemon Trainer, Ike, and Meta Knight are starters. It's been talked about all kinds already but they aren't going to reveal any hidden characters on the site until after the game's release. Snake and the other 3rd party characters are going to be locked for sure, though, that's been confirmed by the man himself.

Zeed · Aug 21, 2007

WordAssassin said:
Pokemon Trainer, Ike, and Meta Knight are starters. It's been talked about all kinds already but they aren't going to reveal any hidden characters on the site until after the game's release.

We don't know that for sure. That's just an assumption based on the fact that they did it that way with Melee.

WordAssassin · Aug 21, 2007

True, but I cannot imagine, after all the exposure he's gotten, Meta Knight being a hidden character. They only revealed Snake because of the monumental announcement of 3rd party characters that came with him, but notice that we have seen NOTHING of him since that?

Zeed · Aug 21, 2007

WordAssassin said:
but notice that we have seen NOTHING of him since that?

He featured quite prominently in the Nintendo World trailer.

Also I've been looking back at an old Sakurai interview. It's interesting reading, gives us a hint at what to expect from Brawl. I think what he says about the fusing of graphics, sound, design, and balance is especially relevant to the Subspace Emissary.

Q: You spoke last year at the Game Developers Conference about how elements such as characters, storyline, and a fully realised world provide a richer experience, and clearly that played a role in Meteos development. Could you explain how these elements came together for Meteos?

A: I believe graphics, sound, game design and game balance should all come together as one, without jeopardising each others theme. For example, for the meteor called Layer Zero, I decided to use the electron as the main theme. So the residents of this meteor and background art became techno-themed. The sound followed the techno and became Eurobeat. Now, having the soundtrack as Eurobeat means the meteor must have an accelerated game speed. Once all the elements are there, it goes back to the start and round and round... until it becomes the perfect unison.

Q: Its said that the Meteos prototype took only one designer and one programmer three days to put together is that correct?

A: Youre close, but a little bit off! It was created by one designer, one graphic artist and one programmer, and took three days. Design documents were written by myself alone and took me three days to finish. When I designed Meteos, we didn't know it would be released on the DS platform. That was decided after we saw the hardware at E3, in May 2004. And at that stage, we didn't have a dev kit or any real hardware information.

Q: How do you feel about the end result of Meteos? Are there aspects you didnt have time for that you would have liked to include?

A: There are tons of elements cut from the final version, and I am still not satisfied with the quality of the game. However, I am very happy to see users are enjoying it!

He's a freaking perfectionist.

Frillen · Aug 21, 2007

Has a Neo GAF thread ever been viewed by over 1 Million people?

Firestorm · Aug 21, 2007

Frillen said:
Has a Neo GAF thread ever been viewed by over 1 Million people?

Smash Bros. Brawl Dojo Official Update Thread - 852,806
(Off-Topic Forum) Post new pics! DO IT! Now!! - 818,180
Official Forza Motorsport 2 thread - 639,176
Ultimate Awesome Wii Virtual Console Discussion - 601,305
The Halo 3 Beta Thread - 596,278

That's the Top 5.

By Replies:
The Halo 3 Beta Thread - 18,783
Pokemon Diamond/Pearl Thread - 15,490
Smash Bros. Brawl Dojo Official Update Thread - 13,862
Ultimate Awesome Wii Virtual Console Discussion - 12,534
Official Forza Motorsport 2 thread - 12,268

Actually, there are a couple threads in Off-Topic that have more replies. Crazy sports fans.

Haly · Aug 21, 2007

Firestorm said:
Smash Bros. Brawl Dojo Official Update Thread - 852,806
(Off-Topic Forum) Post new pics! DO IT! Now!! - 818,180
Official Forza Motorsport 2 thread - 639,176
Ultimate Awesome Wii Virtual Console Discussion - 601,305
The Halo 3 Beta Thread - 596,278

That's the Top 5.

By Replies:
The Halo 3 Beta Thread - 18,783
Pokemon Diamond/Pearl Thread - 15,490
Smash Bros. Brawl Dojo Official Update Thread - 13,862
Ultimate Awesome Wii Virtual Console Discussion - 12,534
Official Forza Motorsport 2 thread - 12,268

Actually, there are a couple threads in Off-Topic that have more replies. Crazy sports fans.

This thread will be top by Dec 3.

Frillen · Aug 21, 2007

Firestorm said:
Smash Bros. Brawl Dojo Official Update Thread - 852,806
(Off-Topic Forum) Post new pics! DO IT! Now!! - 818,180
Official Forza Motorsport 2 thread - 639,176
Ultimate Awesome Wii Virtual Console Discussion - 601,305
The Halo 3 Beta Thread - 596,278

That's the Top 5.

By Replies:
The Halo 3 Beta Thread - 18,783
Pokemon Diamond/Pearl Thread - 15,490
Smash Bros. Brawl Dojo Official Update Thread - 13,862
Ultimate Awesome Wii Virtual Console Discussion - 12,534
Official Forza Motorsport 2 thread - 12,268

Actually, there are a couple threads in Off-Topic that have more replies. Crazy sports fans.

Hmm, so this thread will have zero problems beating The Halo 3 Beta Thread. Hence, this thread has potential to get over 25000 posts.

MrCheez · Aug 21, 2007

So back on the topic of how many characters to expect in the final roster...

I think that you're looking at a minimum of 32ish no matter what. 35 or so doesn't seem that unrealistic. 40 is probably pushing it, but still not out of the realm of possibility. (Anything over that probably won't happen.)

Here is what I am basing my numbers on... What has been revealed so far + (what I believe to be) Very Likely candidates -- The MINIMUM final roster COULD PROBABLY look like this:

WARNING: SPECULATION AHEAD. Don't quote anything on this list and complain that it's not yet confirmed, I'm aware!
---------------
Veteran Starters: (13 total, 2 unconfirmed)

Mario, Link, Kirby, Pikachu, Fox, Samus, Zelda, Bowser, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Peach, Captain Falcon*, Ice Climbers*

Newcomer Starters: (7 total, 2 unconfirmed)

Pit, Wario, (Zero Suit Samus), Ike, Pokémon Traininer, Lucas*, Meta-Knight, Tom Nook*

20 STARTERS TOTAL. Seems like a nice realistic number, eh?

Veteran Unlockables: (5 total, 4 unconfirmed)

Jigglypuff*, Luigi*, Falco*, Ganondorf, Marth*

Newcomer Unlockables: (7 total, 6 unconfirmed)

Snake, King Dedede*, Diddy Kong*, Krystal or Other Female Char*, Balloon Fighter or R.O.B.*, Third Party Character 2 (Megamanz?!)*, Third Party Character 3 (Sonic LOL!?)*

12 UNLOCKABLES. Seems like we could realistically see a few more than this, right?

* - Unconfirmed speculated character
--------------

Notes:

I didn't count ZSS in my numbers since (like Sheik) she probably won't have a portrait on the character select screen.

I find Tom Nook and Lucas to be very likely, due to the appearance of the Animal Crossing and Earthbound logos on the Dojo. If you want, however, replace them with any other char from the same series (Nook with AC Boy or Lucas with Ness)... I'm more interested in speculating the NUMBER of fighters in the final roster in this post, rather than the specific characters.

What do you think? A lot of this is assumption but I'd like to believe it's educated assumption.

Edit: Again, I'm presenting this because it seems likely as the MINIMUM amount of characters we could see after taking into account what I believe to be are very-likely candidates. I'm hoping (and guessing) there will be a few more. (And if we continue to get one character per week on the dojo (and assuming the dojo wont show unlockables), this number will probably get even higher.)

A Link to the Past · Aug 22, 2007

Even if we got 20 new characters, that wouldn't be a stretch and it'd be a nice number.

This would probably include the lack of Pichu, Dr. Mario, and Roy.

Zerodoppler · Aug 22, 2007

A Link to the Snitch said:
Even if we got 20 new characters, that wouldn't be a stretch and it'd be a nice number.

Possible number of updates before the game launches: 83
Estimated updates left for the current 16 characters (special moves, final smash): 20
Number of updates needed if you add 20 characters: 60
Updates left for stages, music, items etc. : 3

Does not compute

Zeed · Aug 22, 2007

Zerodoppler said:
Possible number of updates before the game launches: 83
Estimated updates left for the current 16 characters (special moves, final smash): 20
Number of updates needed if you add 20 characters: 60
Updates left for stages, music, items etc. : 3

Does not compute

This is assuming that Sakurai doesn't do any more multiple updates, which he has done in the past, and will probably do increasingly often as we near launch.

Cosmonaut X · Aug 22, 2007

Zeed said:
This is assuming that Sakurai doesn't do any more multiple updates, which he has done in the past, and will probably do increasingly often as we near launch.

Bingo. And it also assumes that all new characters will be shown pre-launch, rather than have their profile pages unlocked after the game ships.

IMO, we're very unlikely to see all characters/stages/items/music/etc. before the game launches unless updates become a LOT more frequent. Can anyone recall how long after SSBM launched the site still updated?

Linkhero1 · Aug 22, 2007

Zerodoppler said:
Possible number of updates before the game launches: 83
Estimated updates left for the current 16 characters (special moves, final smash): 20
Number of updates needed if you add 20 characters: 60
Updates left for stages, music, items etc. : 3

Does not compute

If there is a Smash Event, like Matt said a while back, coming then I think we'll see some new characters/stages/music ect. so I'm not worried about the site updates.

Hcoregamer00 · Aug 22, 2007

Halycon said:
This thread will be top by Dec 3.

I think the amount of traffic will increase in this thread by double what it is now after the game comes out.

After all, what is more exciting than talking about a game before release? Talking about it after it comes out.

grandjedi6 · Aug 22, 2007

Hcoregamer00 said:
I think the amount of traffic will increase in this thread by double what it is now after the game comes out.

After all, what is more exciting than talking about a game before release? Talking about it after it comes out.

An official thread will probably be made for that. The mods probably won't let it stay here

Support NeoGAF

Smash Bros Brawl Dojo Official Update Thread: Goodbye, Cherry-don

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Banned

Maturity, bitches.

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Banned

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Member

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.

Member

President/Creative Director of Grumpyface Studios

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Member

The 'H' stands for hentai.

Master of the Google Search

Similar threads