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psycho_snake · Aug 31, 2007

ShockingAlberto said:
Looks like you actually have to play the minigames, in a way. Mario and Kirby look like they're taking non-flinching damage from not being under the umbrella.

It would be pretty sweet if that was the case. 4 people trying to battle under a small umbrella would be chaoticl.

Mithos Yggdrasill · Aug 31, 2007

This game is really surprising me. This is a stage I would never thought it could be implemented. Sakurai know how to excite fans...

Linkhero1 · Aug 31, 2007

FINALLY a stage!

Slavik81 · Aug 31, 2007

superbank said:
This should be the last SSB. I'd be kind of mad if Nintendo forces a 4th installment.

Edit: My older bro beat me :lol

Raging Spaniard · Aug 31, 2007

Slavik81 said:
The funniest is how Nintendo was like "You're making the 3rd installment in Smash, and if you don't we'll just port SSBM to the Wii and tack on online."
And Sakurai was like "You're going to PORT my game if I don't? Well I guess I have no choice."
"Ok, here's a massive budget and a team of workers who played Smash for over 10,000hrs."

Wow, your brain must be a fun place.

How do you translate "well make the game with or without your involvement" into what you just posted? You guys talk like Sakurai is making every single decision in the game.

Saitou · Aug 31, 2007

Slavik81 said:
The funniest is how Nintendo was like "You're making the 3rd installment in Smash, and if you don't we'll just port SSBM to the Wii and tack on online."

What.

Zeed · Aug 31, 2007

Saitou said:
What.

It's true. They were going to port SSBM to the Wii with online and call it a day, without touching anything else, unless Sakurai came back to do a real sequel.

Slavik81 · Aug 31, 2007

Zeed said:
It's true. They were going to port SSBM to the Wii with online and call it a day, without touching anything else, unless Sakurai came back to do a real sequel.

Maybe the way I put it wasn't really how it happened... at all, but before we got the new version of the Dojo, Sakurai explained everything in a "How this game came to be made" section.

It was meant to be funny, but there was a taste of bitterness toward Nintendo because Sakurai had hoped to stop making all these sequels. However, Nintendo left him little choice. I'm guessing he was afraid the new SSB could end up like Kirby's Air Ride (a sequel he never wanted to make) in that it butchered his great series' name with such a terrible game.
Didn't he leave Nintendo because he wanted to move onto new things?

jiangjunizzy · Aug 31, 2007

anyone else think they look a little bit like sprites?

EktorPR · Aug 31, 2007

Slavik81 said:
Maybe the way I put it wasn't really how it happened... at all, but before we got the new version of the Dojo, Sakurai explained everything in a "How this game came to be made" section.

It was meant to be funny, but there was a taste of bitterness toward Nintendo because Sakurai had hoped to stop making all these sequels. However, Nintendo left him little choice. I'm guessing he was afraid the new SSB could end up like Kirby's Air Ride (a sequel he never wanted to make) in that it butchered his great series' name with such a terrible game.
Didn't he leave Nintendo because he wanted to move onto new things?

Yes. But I don't believe that to be exactly the way it actually happened. Sakurai returned because of the offer Nintendo gave him, and they'd never would've just ported Melee and added online play without a single addition...those who claim that are either not very knowledgeable of Nintendo's inner workings or just plain trolls.

Scoop-Li · Aug 31, 2007

So now we've got these officially revealed stages:

Battlefield - not character specific
Delfino Plaza - Mario and/or Peach and/or Bowser
Yoshi's Island - Yoshi
Lylat Cruise - Fox
Bridge of Eldin - Link and/or Zelda
Smashville - no character associated yet
Rumble Falls - Donkey Kong and/or Diddy Kong
Skyworld - Pit
Castle Siege - Ike
WarioWare - Wario

Shown but not officially revealed:

Pokemon Stadium - Pokemon Trainer and/or Pikachu
Mario Kart stage - ?
Metal Gear Solid stage - Solid Snake
MetaKnight's ship - MetaKnight

Characters not associated with any officially or unofficially revealed stage :
Samus
Zero Suit Samus
Kirby

Any other input?

GaimeGuy · Aug 31, 2007

Anyone notice that there's no life/damage meters on the wario ware stage?

Could the entire goal be to knock other people into failing the minigames? :O

Maybe there's no stage boundaries, and the entire process is smacking people away from wherethey should be when completing the minigames. And, of course, the more damage someone receives, the further they travel in smash games, so it's easier to keepe people from an umbrella or whatever if they're already at high damage....

Oh, and I know I'm about 100 or so posts late, but <3 The Knee. One of the greatest moves in Melee (along with the STOMP, and Yoshi's forward smash, which can be used as a dodging move AND an attack. It can be quite amazing and annoying to use or be hit with if the user is good with spacing.)

Sharp · Aug 31, 2007

GaimeGuy said:
Anyone notice that there's no life/damage meters on the wario ware stage?

Could the entire goal be to knock other people into failing the minigames? :O

Maybe there's no stage boundaries, and the entire process is smacking people away from wherethey should be when completing the minigames. And, of course, the more damage someone receives, the further they travel in smash games, so it's easier to keepe people from an umbrella or whatever if they're already at high damage....

Oh, and I know I'm about 100 or so posts late, but <3 The Knee. One of the greatest moves in Melee (along with the STOMP, and Yoshi's forward smash, which can be used as a dodging move AND an attack. It can be quite amazing and annoying to use or be hit with if the user is good with spacing.)

There aren't any life bars on most of the screenshots he releases. I don't think that suggests anything at all.

Hcoregamer00 · Aug 31, 2007

That stage is awesome, now announce a new character.

Count Dookkake · Aug 31, 2007

If we have a WarioWare stage, is it too much to ask for Ashley as a character?

will settle for assist trophy

Throwaway123456789 · Sep 1, 2007

TheKingsCrown said:
Is that Cat a nod to NEOGAF?

Yes, cats are absolutely unique to NEOGAF. All cats in the world are a nod to NEOGAF. It's not like that particular microgame is in Wario Ware, right? Right!

CreatureX3 · Sep 1, 2007

WW stage is fricken awesome! Awesome to the max!

GamerSoul · Sep 1, 2007

Very cool, crazy Wario stage.

It looks like Wario will be represented pretty well.

Zeed · Sep 1, 2007

EktorPR said:
Yes. But I don't believe that to be exactly the way it actually happened. Sakurai returned because of the offer Nintendo gave him, and they'd never would've just ported Melee and added online play without a single addition...those who claim that are either not very knowledgeable of Nintendo's inner workings or just plain trolls.

Oh, so I'm a troll, am I? All right then, I'm going to call you out on this because you're making a complete ass of yourself:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060618121557/www.smashbros.com/en/story/page_2.html

Masahiro Sakurai said:
Then this muscled its way in. What if I had declined this offer?

"We'd work to make the game independently, but we might be told to simply focus on making the game Wi-Fi compatible, and may be instructed not to lay a hand on any of the 26 characters in the current game, Super Smash Bros. Melee."

They would make Smash Bros. without changing any of the 26 characters in any way whatsoever. What kind of a new installment would that make.

So is Sakurai not very knowledgeable about Nintendo's inner workings? Or is he a troll too? Come on Ektor, which is it?

GamerSoul · Sep 1, 2007

Now I'm interested in seeing if any other Wario characters will get in. Kat and Ana? Mona? Captain Syrup? :lol I've been browsing Wiki.

EktorPR · Sep 1, 2007

Zeed said:
Oh, so I'm a troll, am I? All right then, I'm going to call you out on this because you're making a complete ass of yourself:

http://web.archive.org/web/20060618121557/www.smashbros.com/en/story/page_2.html

So is Sakurai not very knowledgeable about Nintendo's inner workings? Or is he a troll too? Come on Ektor, which is it?

Oh well...call me a biased Nintendoy fanboy, then.

Zoramon089 · Sep 1, 2007

EktorPR said:
Yes. But I don't believe that to be exactly the way it actually happened. Sakurai returned because of the offer Nintendo gave him, and they'd never would've just ported Melee and added online play without a single addition...those who claim that are either not very knowledgeable of Nintendo's inner workings or just plain trolls.

It's not trolling, it was on Sakurai's blogs on the Smash website, as funny and absurd as it is...I think it was Nintendo's way of forcing him to work on a sequel (even though he broke off to work on original games). Unfortunately I can't find it on the site now. It was there is his blog before the big update

VegaShinra · Sep 1, 2007

Zoramon089 said:
It's not trolling, it was on Sakurai's blogs on the Smash website, as funny and absurd as it is...I think it was Nintendo's way of forcing him to work on a sequel (even though he broke off to work on original games). Unfortunately I can't find it on the site now. It was there is his blog before the big update

Sakurai basically said that if he didn't make Brawl that Nintendo would have took Melee and just added online play and changed nothing else to the game. I would have bought it for online play.

WastingPenguins · Sep 1, 2007

Actually Zeed... you're not entirely right. It only says they wouldn't have touched the characters. Nothing more. This does not necessarily mean they wouldn't have added new stages, single-player content, or whatever else. He even calls it a "new installment", which does not suggest a straight Melee port to me-- he just says they wouldn't have changed the characters.

Firestorm · Sep 1, 2007

Doesn't matter anymore anyway, we're getting his new game. I doubt he'd ever work on one again. He left Nintendo to work on something other than sequels. This seems to be a last favour to Iwata and a game where he can go wild with his two babies (Smash and Kirby) without being held back by Miyamoto or Iwata to me. Considering how he said that Smash takes a great deal of time to make, I don't think he'd want to come back and do another Smash game next gen.

That said, there will probably be a new smash game, but Sakurai won't play the same role.

PS: I'm back home =D

MasterMFauli · Sep 1, 2007

So, im back and i have to say:

What´s wrong with you, fellow Smash-fans???

The glide-move is one of the greatest gameplay-improvements to the series, and there i can read postings of disappointed people.
Gliding = made of win!

Also, stop that Marth and Lyn-talk.
Marth is out because of similarity to Ike, and Lyn is too old. Ike, Mikaya and Sothe are the 3 Fire Emblem that CAN make it in the game, with one already in.

Zeed · Sep 1, 2007

WastingPenguins said:
Actually Zeed... you're not entirely right. It only says they wouldn't have touched the characters. Nothing more. This does not necessarily mean they wouldn't have added new stages, single-player content, or whatever else.

Semantics aside, if read in context his meaning is really quite clear. He explains that without him Nintendo's only focus would have been to add WiFi, and then he uses characters as an example of what would be neglected.

He even calls it a "new installment"

Now this is just flat out wrong. When he says "What kind of new installment would that make?", it's obviously a rhetorical question explaining why he wanted to avoid such a crappy outcome. I don't see how it could be read any other way.

Let's cut to the chase. You tend to reinterpret statements in questionable ways to suit your arguments, which, in the past, has become the subject of the argument itself. I'm not sure if this is intentional or just habit, but I don't want this thread to become English 101 all over again (we've been there, done that, you know how it ended). I'd prefer to avoid such derailment again, and I'm sure that you can agree with that, so what say we drop this farce and get back to Smash?

MasterMFauli said:
Also, stop that Marth and Lyn-talk.
Marth is out because of similarity to Ike, and Lyn is too old. Ike, Mikaya and Sothe are the 3 Fire Emblem that CAN make it in the game, with one already in.

You seem very sure of yourself! I'm in a gambling mood - I'll bet you a one month ban that Marth will return (the only part of him that resembles Ike is the color of his hair, by the way) or that Lyn will make the final cut. If they don't and Micaiah or Sothe get in instead, then you win. If one or more from both sides get in, we call it a tie. What do you say?

Firestorm said:
PS: I'm back home =D

Slavik81 · Sep 1, 2007

EktorPR said:
Oh well...call me a biased Nintendoy fanboy, then.

Does that mean all is forgiven? I'm sorry for starting this stupid arguement (since I'm not used to posting on Neogaf, using my older bro's account and all, I didn't mean to "troll" but to satire). Unfortunately, people got all riled up before I could delete my post and it got quoted.
Thank you to Zeed, who defended me and won. You were pretty much Phoenix Wright.

I'm not even going to justify this post as being on-topic by throwing in some kind of end statement like "I really like Gliding!" That said, we've established once and for all that Sakurai will never make another Smash game again.

MasterMFauli · Sep 1, 2007

Zeed said:
You seem very sure of yourself! I'm in a gambling mood - I'll bet you a one month ban that Marth will return (the only part of him that resembles Ike is the color of his hair, by the way) or that Lyn will make the final cut. If they don't and Micaiah or Sothe get in instead, then you win. If one or more from both sides get in, we call it a tie. What do you say?

Wait, let me clarify the bet:

- Micaia or Sothe in = I win
- Marth or Lyn in = You win
- One or more from each sides = Tie

But what if just Lyn and Marth arent in? That´s what i said for sure ;-)

But even without that, i accept your bet.
What does a 1 month ban mean to me, anyway ^^

Zeed · Sep 1, 2007

MasterMFauli said:
Wait, let me clarify the bet:

- Micaia or Sothe in = I win
- Marth or Lyn in = You win
- One or more from each sides = Tie

But what if just Lyn and Marth arent in? That´s what i said for sure ;-)

But even without that, i except your bet.

Fantastic, if the mods don't pick up on it by tomorrow I'll send them a PM. This will be my first ban bet. Let us hope that it ends entertainingly for one or the both of us - unfortunately under these terms we'll have to wait until at least December 3 to know the outcome for sure.

MasterMFauli · Sep 1, 2007

Zeed said:
Fantastic, if the mods don't pick up on it by tomorrow I'll send them a PM. This will be my first ban bet. Let us hope that it ends entertainingly for one or the both of us.

Either way it ends, it´ll be fun, be it the fun of seeing someone getting banned or having a great new character in SSBB

WastingPenguins · Sep 1, 2007

Zeed-- you seem like a smart guy, but the way you are constantly "calling out" people (sometimes even pulling quotes from dozens of pages back) is getting a little tiresome. You frequently pick apart posts by interpreting them in ways that the author may not have intended.

For instance:

Zeed said:
Now this is just flat out wrong. When he says "What kind of new installment would that make?", it's obviously a rhetorical question explaining why he wanted to avoid such a crappy outcome. I don't see how it could be read any other way.

I just told you how it could be read another way, didn't I? Please cut the condescending attitude.

Jiggy · Sep 1, 2007

MasterMFauli said:
Either way it ends, it´ll be fun, be it the fun of seeing someone getting banned or having a great new character in SSBB

Sothe would not be a great new character.

I can't think of anyone from FE I wouldn't rather have than him, and that includes Ephraim, FE6 old man Marcus, any healer including lame male healers, and nameless zombies from FE8. At least they (respectively) have lances, lances, staves, and the joys of being non-human.

MasterMFauli · Sep 1, 2007

Well, Sothe is thief-class. I never chose him on my play-throughs, but people keep telling how awsome thieves are once they get up a rank. Whatever, i want a thief or a magician, but not another random fighter from a FE-game.

Zeed · Sep 1, 2007

WastingPenguins said:
Zeed-- you seem like a smart guy, but the way you are constantly "calling out" people (sometimes even pulling quotes from dozens of pages back) is getting a little tiresome.

I certainly did not start this argument, but if you insist on continuing down this pointless tangent, then I suppose I'll oblige you.

WastingPenguins said:
I just told you how it could be read another way, didn't I?

Yes it could be read your way, but that way would be incorrect. You stated that "He even calls it a 'new installment', which does not suggest a straight Melee port". That is patently false. Read it again:

Sakurai said:
They would make Smash Bros. without changing any of the 26 characters in any way whatsoever. What kind of a new installment would that make?

Nowhere does he call it a new installment. He poses a rhetorical question in order to make the point that if he had not agreed to take on the project, the alternative would not have been a true new installment, but rather an online-enabled port. If you cannot see this, WastingPenguins, then you are blind to every convention of language and logic common to man.

Scribble · Sep 1, 2007

People are still using the "Marth won't be in because he looks similar to Ike" argument? :lol

You need to stop acting that Fire Emblem didn't have a history before it came to the US. =/

Zeed · Sep 1, 2007

Scribble said:
People are still using the "Marth won't be in because he looks similar to Ike" argument? :lol

Scribble! You're back! We've missed you.

MasterMFauli · Sep 1, 2007

Scribble said:
People are still using the "Marth won't be in because he looks similar to Ike" argument? :lol

You need to stop acting that Fire Emblem didn't have a history before it came to the US. =/

Zelda existed before Twilight Princess, yet we´re getting only Twilight Princess-characters.

Zeed · Sep 1, 2007

MasterMFauli said:
Zelda existed before Twilight Princess, yet we´re getting only Twilight Princess-characters.

Bad analogy (those are reiterations of the same characters) undermined further by the fact that Zelda still uses Ocarina of Time moves. This has been covered before, we are not getting Twilight Princess Link and Zelda. We are getting SSBB Link and Zelda. Sakurai explained the distinction back in the Melee days - it doesn't matter what the characters look like, they can still draw upon elements from all of that character's games.

In any case, we'll see who's right in the end and one of us will probably be taking a vacation.

Scribble · Sep 1, 2007

Zeed said:
Scribble! You're back! We've missed you.

Thanks. I've...uh...learned my lesson =X

MasterMFauli said:
Zelda existed before Twilight Princess, yet we´re getting only Twilight Princess-characters.

But there isn't really a character in the whole Zelda series who's been as important as the main trio. But you know, there isn't much evidence to support that we'll be getting only TP characters. Tingle and Sheik are possibilities.

NeonZ · Sep 1, 2007

MasterMFauli said:
Zelda existed before Twilight Princess, yet we´re getting only Twilight Princess-characters.

Exactly. But that's actually a point for Marth still being in the game.

The Twilight Princess visuals are replacing the old ones. However, Link's moveset is the same as before, only tweaked... Meanwhile, Ike seems to be getting a completely original moveset, not some kind of minor alteration of Marth's. If he were supposed to be a replacement, he'd just have Marth's moveset like how TP Link has the moveset of OoT Link...

Scribble · Sep 1, 2007

Marth representing the origin of Fire Emblem and Ike representing the present Fire Emblem is a neat little idea, nevertheless.

I just remembered that Marth is the star of two games (one being the very first Fire Emblem, and the other being a retelling/remake of that game), and the main character of the OVA - which I'm going to watch a bit of now =X

NeonZ · Sep 1, 2007

I just remembered that Marth is the star of two games (one being the very first Fire Emblem, and the other being a retelling/remake of that game)

The third Fire Emblem wasn't just a retelling. It was a new game which included a remake of the first one, but also had its own storyline.

Several characters from the original game were missing in the remake, as it was mostly reusing assets from the main game. So, most non-bosses characters who didn't reappear in the new storyline were cut, including Jake, Anna's (the redhead from the menu screens) boyfriend, who made cameos in FE4 and FE7(though his class was wrong in the later).

Scribble · Sep 1, 2007

NeonZ said:
The third Fire Emblem wasn't just a retelling. It was a new game which included a remake of the first one, but also had its own storyline.

Yeah, I'm aware of that. Still, it just goes to show how Marth is more than just "the first lord" (which is still significant in its own right). Aren't him and Ike the only lords who are the main (and not side/cameos) characters of two Fire Emblem titles? There's also the fact that Fire Emblem Gaiden/FE2 (?) takes place in the same universe as Marth's games (Which I've just discovered).

Marth ain't goin' nowhere.

I'm going to play what I can of Fire Emblem 3 tonight

Cerebral Assassin · Sep 1, 2007

Zeed said:
He poses a rhetorical question in order to make the point that if he had not agreed to take on the project, the alternative would not have been a true new installment

Sakurai said:
"We'd work to make the game independently, but we might be told to simply focus on making the game Wi-Fi compatible, and may be instructed not to lay a hand on any of the 26 characters in the current game, Super Smash Bros. Melee."

Sakurai was talking about a hypothetical situation if he hadn't taken on the project, nowhere in that interview does he say that Nintendo told him this was what they intended(not a bad way to get someone to work on an old one of their franchises is it?).

The only franchise i've ever seen Nintendo treat like that is Mario Party, I honestly don't think Nintendo would follow up the biggest selling GC title with exactly the same game just with online.

Sharp · Sep 1, 2007

MasterMFauli, spell "accept" correctly in your bet or it's void.

A Link to the Past · Sep 1, 2007

I hope they have the snot girl level, and have the objective be to attack the snot.

Zeed · Sep 1, 2007

Cerebral Assassin said:
Sakurai was talking about a hypothetical situation if he hadn't taken on the project

I agree, and I'm not sure why you saw the need to clarify that. Your post was not a rebuttal to mine at all, seeing as how it's discussing an entirely different section of the article than what is currently being contested (whether or not he was calling the hypothetical game a true installment or whether it was, after all, a rhetorical question). As to whether or not it was Nintendo explaining the hypothetical alternative - you'll note that that part is in quotation marks, and is certainly not spoken from Sakurai's perspective. It discusses development of the online Smash Bros. without Sakurai in the first person, meaning it had to be someone at Nintendo doing the talking.

But no matter who was speaking, it's a moot point and doesn't change anything.

Scribble said:
Marth representing the origin of Fire Emblem and Ike representing the present Fire Emblem is a neat little idea, nevertheless.

That's why I think Lyn has also has a shot, because she represents the origin of Fire Emblem worldwide. Three is a perfect number for Fire Emblem - Marth, Ike, and Lyn.

MasterMFauli said:
Either way it ends, it´ll be fun, be it the fun of seeing someone getting banned or having a great new character in SSBB

I just PM'd a mod to make it official, and just to be clear, assist trophies don't count, right? We are talking about playable characters.

GamerSoul · Sep 1, 2007

Interesting bet

Personally, I don't think any FE10 characters have good a chance in. If Sakurai was givin the FE9 Ike to work with, he must've ask IS for characters relatively early in ssbb's developement. That's just what I think, but I wouldn't be suprised if I'm wrong.

Lyn(speed and range), Ike(power), joined with Marth would be a sweet FE lineup. Add the BK as an enemy then it will be perfect. He already has a theme too.

Zeed · Sep 1, 2007

GamerSoul said:
Lyn(speed and range), Ike(power), joined with Marth would be a sweet FE lineup. Add the BK as an emeny then it will be perfect. He already has a theme too.

Yeah I think The Black Knight has a great shot at being a Subspace Emissary boss. He placed highly on Sakurai's poll and is, after all, Ike's nemesis.

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