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Smash Bros Brawl Dojo Official Update Thread: Goodbye, Cherry-don

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Haunted

Haunted

Member
Scribble said:
a. Marth is the most iconic Fire Emblem character. He's the first ever lord, and has had three games (one a sidestory where he isn't a main character, IIRC), in his universe.

b. Just because they both wield swords, doesn't mean they fight the same. If anything, the fact that Ike is a HEAVY sword user, instead of the more graceful rapierish type sword user like Marth, reinforces the idea that Marth isn't out.

c. Who cares if they both have blue hair, if they're both recognisable as Marth and Ike from Fire Emblem? o_o This isn't an original fighting game, this is Fire Emblem. The characters have had histories/legacies before this game.
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a) Maybe in Japan, but iirc Sakurai said they'd have a more international focus this time around, so Lords who appeared in worldwide releases have better chances than 'classic', JP-only lords.

b) I never pictured Marth as a delicate, fencing fighter. I know Roy is heavier, but Marth also makes strong slicing/swinging strokes with his sword. He's a sword-fighter, not a fencer. That's why I think Eliwood has a better chance of making it in - he's even more different from Ike/Roy than Marth and is also capable of using a lance.

c) Are they, though? I know Smash Brothers has a history of including similar looking characters (just look at Pichu and Pikachu!), but I think Sakurai'll aim to remove that as far as possible for Brawl.

Overall, I guess we agree to disagree. :p




And Sheik is still out. :D
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
Having said that, Sheik and Marth are definitely out, no denying that.
Click to expand...

I guess that explains your bad track record...

There's no such thing as a 'visual' replacement. The moment Ike was confirmed to have attacks different from Marth's, it was shown that he isn't a replacement. They aren't going to throw away an entire set of animations.

That's why I think Eliwood has a better chance of making it in - he's even more different from Ike/Roy than Marth and is also capable of using a lance.
Click to expand...

When Marth wields a Rapier in his original game, he doesn't use slashing attacks, but that animation is changed when he wields other weapons. In SSBM, he was wielding his legendary weapon, the Falchion, not a rapier. Ike and Lyn also are wielding theirs legendary weapons. Eliwood clearly would be stuck with the Durandal rather than wielding a rapier.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
NeonZ said:
I guess that explains your bad track record...
Click to expand...
:(


It's all speculation at this point. Sakurai could - at any time - just say 'fuck it!' and include 3 more FE characters no one cared about. Or none - everything's possible and we're basically just discussing likelihoods of things happening (and I'm currently not doing a very good job predicting things). :lol


DavidDayton said:
I have issues with Mr. Game & Watch and Mewtwo... why should they be replaced? They aren't clones. I can't think of any reason why the two would be replaced.

Pichu always struck me as the token joke character... and I thought we -had- been told we were getting Wind Waker Link, but that could have been long, long ago.
Click to expand...
oh, Mr. Game & Watch is awesome, I hope he's still in. Pichu is redundant (like Young Link, imo) and can go. I don't like Mewtwo, but if he's indeed that popular as people here said (as a pokemon, not necessarily in Melee) I can see how they'd keep him around.



For the record (and so everyone knows what not to predict), I predict an update to the Adventure mode for Monday. Sakurai will show us one of the singleplayer levels.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
It's all speculation at this point. Sakurai could - at any time - just say 'fuck it!' and include 3 more FE characters no one cared about. Or none - everything's possible and we're basically just discussing likelihoods of things happening (and I'm currently not doing a very good job predicting things).
Click to expand...

I just think you're completely ignoring the technical side of creating a game in your predictions...
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
NeonZ said:
I just think you're completely ignoring the technical side of creating a game in your predictions...
Click to expand...
Well, I'm using the 'he's cool, he should be in' argument a lot, so I can see what you mean.
 
S

SuperAngelo64

Banned
Marth also starred in an anime that was localized to english and is pretty popular among fans.. just throwing that out there.

What I personally think?

Marth is in, Roy is out.


Ike replaced Roy because Roy was only in it because it was the newest FE out at the time. Now it's all about Ike.
 
K

Kreed

Member
Like I asked a while back in this thread, why did people think characters like Ice Climbers would get cut in the first place? Unlike clones like Dr. Mario, characters like Game and Watch, Ice Climbers, and Mewtwo are unique characters with their own move sets. The only reason I've seen people give for them being cut is that these characters weren't very popular and weren't great fighters in the last game. But as we've seen in Sakurai's updates, many characters are getting game play adjustments/improvements, so the only reason left is "unpopularity" and I doubt Sakurai cares about that.
 
M

Mithos Yggdrasill

Banned
Golden Darkness said:
iceclimbers.jpg


The one in blue is Popo. The one in pink is Nana. And the two of them get along great! ...I think.

These two move as a pair, with Nana automatically following along. There’s safety in numbers – protect and be protected!

iceclimbers_070914a-l.jpg
iceclimbers_070914b-l.jpg
iceclimbers_070914c-l.jpg
iceclimbers_070914d-l.jpg
Click to expand...

Wow. Very well designed.
 
S

Scalpel Knight

Member
Sakurai says "Take this, motherfuckers!" and BAM!, Ice Climbers update - all your theories about returning characters are beginning to crumble, if not completely destroyed. I'm actually relieved to see these two in the game, even if I was the only one out of all my friends who bothered to use them. IC moveset next update?
 
Christopher

Christopher

Member
ew ice climbers!! They sucked in Melee.

But you know what? More gameplay options the better, maybe some people were good with them?

Also I hope no one from Melee gets the cut I like when they just expand the roster.
 
S

Shig

Strap on your hooker ...
DavidDayton said:
I have issues with Mr. Game & Watch and Mewtwo... why should they be replaced? They aren't clones. I can't think of any reason why the two would be replaced.
Click to expand...
For Mewtwo, there's already 4 playable R/B Pokemon in. I think any further Pokemon added will be from later games in the series, as it seems like there's a marked effort towards balancing in recent references wherever they can.* And there's no better candidate for doing that a series that has added hundreds of new characters since the last installment of Smash.

*See Warioware ver of Wario, a very recent FE Lord, Mario's FLUDD move, TP models for Zelda characters, Zero Suit Samus, Nintendogs assist, etc.
 
T

TheKingsCrown

Banned
I am surprised they would bring the Ice Climbers back, given their relative mediocrity in the first game (although I was able to win with them, their advantages were typically not enough that someone couldn't pick them apart if necessary). I would hope Sakurai would make some significant changes to them.
 
F

Frozen Fire

Member
Nintaiyo said:
sansen_360.jpg
iceclimbers_070914a-l.jpg
Click to expand...

Wow.... I am throughly suprised. I really honestly thought they would not be in this one. Oh well, they are kinda cute anyway.

Well, here is something I've kind of noticed. Their are a heck of a lot fluffier and the hammers are a lot bigger to give them a more teddy bear look. I guess Nintendo is trying to make them more into a "cute" character. If they were really trying then they did it.... As much as it pains me to say this.. I just wanna hug the little buggers.. :D

Dey wook soo fluwffy an soff.

Well, If they are in, anybody from melee ( minus clones ) can be in....... Game and Watch..... *shivers* Please, if there is a god, he will not let game and watch in.

:D


Dear god, what is happening to me! Get the pictures away! Mind Control I say! Mind Control!
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
Frozen Fire said:
Well, If they are in, anybody from melee ( minus clones ) can be in....... Game and Watch..... *shivers* Please, if there is a god, he will not let game and watch in.
Click to expand...
:eek: Mr. Game & Watch is great. Why do you hate freedom?
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
For Mewtwo, there's already 4 playable R/B Pokemon in. I think any further Pokemon added will be from later games in the series, as it seems like there's a marked effort towards balancing in recent references wherever they can.
Click to expand...

The trainer himself had a design based on FR/GL rather than the design from the old games, though.

Besides, it makes no sense to throw a whole set of animations away, and I don't think there's any suitable replacement for Mewtwo (a replacement would need to be humanoid and have three fingers, a tail and a small mouth to use his animations).
 
Akinola

Akinola

Member
Bark252 said:
The ice climbers look great. I play with them every now and then. Ca't wait to see their final smash.
Click to expand...

dude they're totally gonna have pterodactyls and eggplants bombarding the stage
 
P

psycho_snake

I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
Frozen Fire said:
Well, here is something I've kind of noticed. Their are a heck of a lot fluffier and the hammers are a lot bigger to give them a more teddy bear look. I guess Nintendo is trying to make them more into a "cute" character. If they were really trying then they did it.... As much as it pains me to say this.. I just wanna hug the little buggers.. :D
Click to expand...
I dont think their intention was to add those things to make them cute; they did it because they were able to improve the textures and make the character models look better.
 
L

lexi

Banned
DavidDayton said:
Sooo... could we all agree that baseless speculation about characters be struck from the roster is silly?

Sakurai is in charge. He can do whatever he wants. Assuming distinctive characters are cut seems silly without proof.

(In other words, I'm expecting Ness, Mr. Game & Watch, and Zelda's Shiek transformation to return.)
Click to expand...

QFT.

I've mentioned it before but the one thing people in this thread have done that annoys the absolute shit out of me is baking up theories about x and y character DEFINITELY WON'T BE RETURNING CONFIRMED.
 
P

psycho_snake

I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
Hero said:
If anything, this just confirms that most characters will return.

Honestly, the only ones I can see being cut now are:

Pichu
Mewto (replaced by a D/P legendary)
Young Link (replaced by WW/PH Link)
Mr. G&W
Click to expand...
Why Mr G&W? There isnt any other character like him, so they cant replace him with anybody. Whats the point of removing him anyway? They dont need to change his character model and most of his moves can remian the same. He'll need to be given a final smash and possibly a couple of other tweaks, which shouldnt take much time waw from the devs working on other things.
 
E

esbern

Junior Member
ice climber downward smash was just brutal.


on a downward smash note....i hope they make peaches not the cheapest move in the damn game.
 
D

DDayton

(more a nerd than a geek)
SuperAngelo64 said:
The Bowser Jr., WW Link, Ridley thing was a hoax.
Click to expand...

I have no idea what that rumor was, but it sounds inane. No, I thought I remembered some individual interview where it was distinctly mentioned that young Link would be replaced by WW Link. I just wish I could remember what it was and from what point it was.
 
S

Shig

Strap on your hooker ...
Son of Godzilla said:
This whole "preserve teh animations" nonsense is pretty much the biggest thing I hate about this game currently. Nearly identical movesets in a sequel = icky.
Click to expand...
Have you ever played a fighting game sequel before?

Same animations for returning characters, with maybe 1 or 2 new moves, is standard fare. Anything else would only a) piss off existing fans, and b) take away development time that could be better spent on new characters and content.
NeonZ said:
The trainer himself had a design based on FR/GL rather than the design from the old games, though.
Click to expand...
The Pokemon he uses are 1st gen. Don't try to obfuscate with technicalities.
Besides, it makes no sense to throw a whole set of animations away, and I don't think there's any suitable replacement for Mewtwo (a replacement would need to be humanoid and have three fingers, a tail and a small mouth to use his animations).
Click to expand...
So, by this criteria, you think Roy's going to be back, too?
 
M

MrCheez

President/Creative Director of Grumpyface Studios
Everyone who hates the Ice Climbers is a mean jerk who is ugly. :mad:

About the Marth issue:

There is a 95% chance Marth is still in the game. Besides the fact that he is the most recognizable FE character, he also has a DIFFERENT MOVESET FROM IKE. This is huge evidence that Ike is not meant as a replacement.

I don't think the fact that they look alike (both with blue hair and capes) is much of an issue. Melee had Pikachu and Pichu, and they looked practically identical. If it makes you feel better Marth's hair is more of a turquoise and Ike's is more of a dark blue. :p

Roy will be gone, as will all of the other clones except for Ganondorf (who shall receive his own moveset - as was originally intended in Melee before they run out of time) and maybe/hopefully Falco (due to the largest popularity of the clones, outside of G-dorf).
 
M

MrCheez

President/Creative Director of Grumpyface Studios
Here is my roster prediction from 8/21...

MrCheez said:
WARNING: SPECULATION AHEAD. MY GUESSES AT MINIMUM ROSTER - I'M ACTUALLY HOPING FOR A FEW MORE CHARACTERS THAN THIS!
---------------
Veteran Starters: (13 total, 2 unconfirmed)

Mario, Link, Kirby, Pikachu, Fox, Samus, Zelda, Bowser, Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Peach, Captain Falcon*, Ice Climbers*

Newcomer Starters: (7 total, 2 unconfirmed)

Pit, Wario, (Zero Suit Samus), Ike, Pokémon Traininer, Lucas*, Meta-Knight, Tom Nook*


20 STARTERS TOTAL. Seems like a nice realistic number, eh?


Veteran Unlockables: (5 total, 4 unconfirmed)

Jigglypuff*, Luigi*, Falco*, Ganondorf, Marth*

Newcomer Unlockables: (7 total, 6 unconfirmed)

Snake, King Dedede*, Diddy Kong*, Krystal or Other Female Char*, Balloon Fighter or R.O.B.*, Third Party Character 2 (Megamanz?!)*, Third Party Character 3 (Sonic LOL!?)*


12 UNLOCKABLES. Seems like we could realistically see a few more than this, right?


* - Unconfirmed speculated character
--------------
Click to expand...

Characters in bold were revealed on the site after this post... So far my predictions about Ice Climbers and Diddy Kong have come true. :) (Although I was wrong about Diddy not being a starter)
 
R

Raging Spaniard

If they are Dutch, upright and breathing they are more racist than your favorite player
Well, I never used the Ice Climbers. I was always SUPER CONFUSED the entire time I used them, so Im not specially thrilled, HOWEVER.

You guys are forgetting how each character in Smash 64 changed DRASTICALLY in Melee, dont forget about all the rebalancing thats going to happen! They all pretty much played differently, I had to change all my mains and stuck with Ness in the end just because I got too good at controlling his up B move.

So, heres some hope for the IC to be rebalanced nicely.

Much less thrilled about their old stage coming back though, worst stage ever. Hoping they get one with a different mechanic this time around.

Oh and btw, the fur in DK looks worse because he has it all over his body, budget constraints people. IC can have real good looking fur cause its only in 20% percent of their model or so (then again, you do have two of them...)
 
F

Frozen Fire

Member
MrCheez said:
Everyone who hates the Ice Climbers is a mean jerk who is ugly. :mad:

About the Marth issue:

There is a 95% chance Marth is still in the game. Besides the fact that he is the most recognizable FE character, he also has a DIFFERENT MOVESET FROM IKE. This is huge evidence that Ike is not meant as a replacement.

I don't think the fact that they look alike (both with blue hair and capes) is much of an issue. Melee had Pikachu and Pichu, and they looked practically identical. If it makes you feel better Marth's hair is more of a turquoise and Ike's is more of a dark blue. :p

Roy will be gone, as will all of the other clones except for Ganondorf (who shall receive his own moveset - as was originally intended in Melee before they run out of time) and maybe/hopefully Falco (due to the largest popularity of the clones, outside of G-dorf).
Click to expand...

I dunno, They do have a different moveset, thats for sure, but to the naked eye (In my opinon) you have to admit that the average guy would say that they look just too similer to have both. Also Pichu and Picachu look pretty differen't to me.

It could go either way. He might make it in, but with Ike his chances are very slim. You guys have to admit.
 
P

PataHikari

Banned
How about we assume that all characters are returning unless directly stated, by Sakurai himself?

Really, stop assuming that characters are being cut.

And I like Ice Climbers. :( Haters make people sad.
 
S

Scribble

Member
Frozen Fire said:
I dunno, They do have a different moveset, thats for sure, but to the naked eye (In my opinon) you have to admit that the average guy would say that they look just too similer to have both. Also Pichu and Picachu look pretty differen't to me.

It could go either way. He might make it in, but with Ike his chances are very slim. You guys have to admit.
Click to expand...

But Fire Emblem has a large fanbase in Japan. Sakurai will want to cater to that fanbase, so Marth will be in.

People can't just pretend that Fire Emblem/Marth's history didn't exist just because not all of it was accessible to the West.
 
D

djtiesto

is beloved, despite what anyone might say
Hells yeah, so excited to see the Climbers weren't axed. Now I need assurance that Game+Watch is back in.
 
L

Linkhero1

Member
CassSept said:
Because Ness ir propably out


:(
or the last in game unlockable! just when you have lost all your hope, NESS!
Click to expand...
He's probably an unlockable. I don't think he'll take any of the originals out.
 
NeonZ

NeonZ

Member
So, by this criteria, you think Roy's going to be back, too?
Click to expand...

Heh... no.

Neither Roy nor any of the other 5 characters in the edge of Melee's selection screen had a unique set of animations, so they could be excluded with minimal losses. There were a few exclusive things sometimes, like Pichu's headbut Smash, extra effects, taunts and victory poses, but at least 90% of the animations were recycled.

It's kind of funny how almost everyone seems to be certain Falco Lombardi will return and his presence is not even debated much, but he's actually part of the group most likely to get cut.

I do think the Marth/Roy animation set will be back in this game, but that doesn't mean the characters will return. However, they'll need a character with similar body structure to use those animations, if they're getting replaced and, in their case, finding similar characters in FE will be much easier, as basically any swordfighter would fit. We already know that Ike has his own set of animations though, so he isn't a replacement.

However, I do think Marth will return as there's no proof they're trying to exclude Japanese things from the game (FE's symbol in SSB even still is Marth's sword, which has only been shown in Japanese FEs)...
 
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