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DeaconKnowledge · Jul 20, 2007

Gigglepoo said:
This is true. Didn't that 50 Cent sell a million copies? But the PS2 had a ton of top notch 3rd party efforts as well. We don't see any on the Wii so far. There is a chance that developers will never fully invest in the Wii since they can sell bad games that require little effort.

Plus, bad games usually sell because of a license. See 50 Cent or Order of the Phoenix. But Red Steel didn't have a license. When a horrible new IP sells that well, I find it troubling.

That's really specious logic.

Red Steel sold because it was ridiculously hyped in gaming magazines and was the first game shown running on the Wii, not to mention the huge ad campaign for it. It wasn't great, but sometimes a game doesn't have to be great to sell.

Remember Driv3r? The only Difference between Driv3r and Red Steel was that Red Steel also had launch status to boost sales.

ziran · Jul 20, 2007

If 3rd parties can take a main instalment in a major franchise, like RE, MGS, GTA, FF, etc, and do what Nintendo has done with Zelda in Phantom Hourglass and Mario in Mario Galaxy, they'll have huge successes imo, and please a wide range of people including the hardcore.

BUT, you need to have the best people on the job and they need as much time as it takes. Giving small B teams a year to come up with something isn't likely to create anything amazing in quality or sales.

If 3rd parties don't start putting the effort in Wii, and its sales continue as they have been doing, they're going to be in for some rough times, because the HD audience isn't growing at anywhere near a fast enough rate to make its dev costs worthwhile.

BuzzJive · Jul 20, 2007

I love how we've gone from "third parties don't sell on the Wii" to "third parties don't have to put any effort in to their games and they will still sell". I can't wait to see what you guys come up with next.

fernoca · Jul 20, 2007

Gigglepoo said:
This is true. Didn't that 50 Cent sell a million copies? But the PS2 had a ton of top notch 3rd party efforts as well. We don't see any on the Wii so far. There is a chance that developers will never fully invest in the Wii since they can sell bad games that require little effort.

Plus, bad games usually sell because of a license. See 50 Cent or Order of the Phoenix. But Red Steel didn't have a license. When a horrible new IP sells that well, I find it troubling.

Come on Giggle, we talked about this yesterday.

The Wii has been in the market for 8 months and at the lower end of a "console life span" it still have 3 years and 4 months of life...so give it time, is like you're expecting all the big games now..

You know that the PS2's first year it had many horrible games it's best game and the flow of good games didn't started coming till a year or two later...and it still ended with an over 100 million install base.

cvxfreak · Jul 20, 2007

Gigglepoo said:
Sorry for the confusion. I'm sure RE4 Wii is a great game. It was certainly great when I played it two years ago. My "half-assed" comment regarding it was about the time and money spent in developing it, not the quality. I should have used a different word.

RE4 Wii is a great game with minimum effort.
RE:UC is a bad game with minimum effort.

I have not actually played RE4 Wii nor do I plan ever putting extensive time with it. But I will try it out for a bit just because everyone says it is amazing. I do not play ports, though, unless I missed the original. Want an example? I'm a huge Rare whore but could not play through Conker a second time and I only made it about 20 minutes into Diddy Kong Racing DS.

It's good that RE4 is available to so many people who may have missed it the first time, but I don't think it's something that should be applauded. Just like Bully (another great game); I'm glad it's getting a next gen facelift, but it's certainly not a huge selling point for either system.

Your argument isn't without merit, but it needs to be placed within the proper context. You simply can't compare RE4 Wii to RE5 as you did in your original comment. Capcom didn't put RE4 on Wii because they didn't see any potential in the system compared to 360 and PS3, they put it there because they DID see potential for the RE brand on the Wii, and their assumptions are paying off.

Gigglepoo · Jul 20, 2007

I know. I'm not writing off the Wii completely. I did spend $250 on the thing. I can only talk about the games that are out and those that have been announced. It's not like the last system launch was so far away. At this point last year, there were a lot of 3rd party games announced for the X360. I expect more games to be coming for my other console and I am expressing my dissapointment that there is almost nothing on the horizon.

donny2112 · Jul 20, 2007

Publishers may be waiting until Nintendo's big three have monster sales to be confident that there is a hardcore crowd on the Wii and not just soccer moms. They're leaving money on the table by waiting, though.

DeaconKnowledge · Jul 20, 2007

Gigglepoo said:
I know. I'm not writing off the Wii completely. I did spend $250 on the thing. I can only talk about the games that are out and those that have been announced. It's not like the last system launch was so far away. At this point last year, there were a lot of 3rd party games announced for the X360. I expect more games to be coming for my other console and I am expressing my dissapointment that there is almost nothing on the horizon.

...The 360 was the only game in town. Why wouldn't it have a shitload of announcements?

Hcoregamer00 · Jul 20, 2007

BuzzJive said:
I love how we've gone from "third parties don't sell on the Wii" to "third parties don't have to put any effort in to their games and they will still sell". I can't wait to see what you guys come up with next.

Well, that has been destroyed by Dragon Quest Swords and the fact that it is one of the fastest selling DQ spinoffs. Ironic because it was Dragon Quest Monsters for the DS that destroyed the "third parties don't sell on DS" argument.

donny2112 said:
Publishers may be waiting until Nintendo's big three have monster sales to be confident that there is a hardcore crowd on the Wii and not just soccer moms. They're leaving money on the table by waiting, though.

WHAT???

Metroid Prime 3 will be a megahit, Mario will create his own sales galaxy, and Smash Bros. Will break records. If anything they are waiting for 3rd party breakout hits to gauge hardcore games.

donny2112 · Jul 20, 2007

Hcoregamer00 said:
Well, that has been destroyed by Dragon Quest Swords and the fact that it is one of the fastest selling DQ spinoffs. Ironic because it was Dragon Quest Monsters for the DS that destroyed the "third parties don't sell on DS" argument.

Haven't you heard? Square-Enix is "special" and doesn't count toward the premise of third-parties having bad sales on Nintendo platforms.

Tobor · Jul 20, 2007

Gigglepoo said:
I know. I'm not writing off the Wii completely. I did spend $250 on the thing. I can only talk about the games that are out and those that have been announced. It's not like the last system launch was so far away. At this point last year, there were a lot of 3rd party games announced for the X360. I expect more games to be coming for my other console and I am expressing my dissapointment that there is almost nothing on the horizon.

Hang tight. TGS is coming, and the Japanese publishers have an even bigger userbase gap to think about. Just be a little patient.

Beyond that, it seems pretty clear a GTA of some sort is coming to Wii. Only a question of when.

Hcoregamer00 · Jul 20, 2007

donny2112 said:
Haven't you heard? Square-Enix is "special" and doesn't count toward the premise of third-parties having bad sales on Nintendo platforms.

Oh yeah, I forgot about that.

If putting effort and marketing your games makes you special, then I want all the companies to be special.

Shahadan · Jul 20, 2007

Moz La Punk said:

They're all trying to hide their erection.

A call to photoshops

PolyGone · Jul 20, 2007

it honestly looks like the Nintendo peeps are shitting their pants at what they are looking at, not so much bored but ... holy shit this is what we're up against? I mean, graphically.

DeaconKnowledge · Jul 20, 2007

PolyGone said:
it honestly looks like the Nintendo peeps are shitting their pants at what they are looking at, not so much bored but ... holy shit this is what we're up against? I mean, graphically.

That's not what I get at all. Jade Raymond looks really uncomfortable.

Gigglepoo · Jul 20, 2007

DeaconKnowledge said:
...The 360 was the only game in town. Why wouldn't it have a shitload of announcements?

There's a lot of excuses and little results for the Wii thus far. Can I at least be angry with Nintendo? They should really have more games out. WiiSports is the only thing that really proves the Wii's worth and that was a launch title.

Hcoregamer00 said:
Well, that has been destroyed by Dragon Quest Swords and the fact that it is one of the fastest selling DQ spinoffs.

I haven't actually played this but I heard it's pretty lousy. Shane from 1up likes to say it's "for babies."

When is Crystal Chronicles coming anyway? That's a spinoff I'm really looking forward to. Co-op for the win!

DeaconKnowledge · Jul 20, 2007

Gigglepoo said:
There's a lot of excuses and little results for the Wii thus far. Can I at least be angry with Nintendo? They should really have more games out. WiiSports is the only thing that really proves the Wii's worth and that was a launch title.

I can understand that. If the Wii wasn't a monumental success Nintendo would really be in trouble with the sparsity of their releases.

...though I do expect certain games **coughFire Emblemcough** would have been released by now if that were the case.

Tobor · Jul 20, 2007

Gigglepoo said:
There's a lot of excuses and little results for the Wii thus far. Can I at least be angry with Nintendo? They should really have more games out. WiiSports is the only thing that really proves the Wii's worth and that was a launch title.

You can be whatever you want, but we have the right to think you're being silly.

Tobor · Jul 20, 2007

Gigglepoo said:
There's a lot of excuses and little results for the Wii thus far. Can I at least be angry with Nintendo? They should really have more games out. WiiSports is the only thing that really proves the Wii's worth and that was a launch title.

I haven't actually played this but I heard it's pretty lousy. Shane from 1up likes to say it's "for babies."

When is Crystal Chronicles coming anyway? That's a spinoff I'm really looking forward to. Co-op for the win!

Uhh, about the co-op...

Link316 · Jul 20, 2007

fernoca said:
You know that the PS2's first year it had many horrible games it's best game and the flow of good games didn't started coming till a year or two later...and it still ended with an over 100 million install base.

thing is we are seeing this happen again right now on the PS3 instead of the Wii

JB1981 · Jul 20, 2007

DeaconKnowledge said:
That's not what I get at all. Jade Raymond looks really uncomfortable.

Oh god. Just stop. Seriously.

crbowen · Jul 20, 2007

PolyGone said:
it honestly looks like the Nintendo peeps are shitting their pants at what they are looking at, not so much bored but ... holy shit this is what we're up against? I mean, graphically.

Nintendo came to the table this generation with Wii Sports up against Gears and Resistance. I really doubt the graphics are on their minds.

Gigglepoo · Jul 20, 2007

Tobor said:
You can be whatever you want, but we have the right to think you're being silly.

Are you happy with Nintendo's output on the Wii? I expect EAD to show developers how to make games for the platform. They've only released WiiSports (which is a great showcase), Zelda (a GC port) and, um, Wario Ware? Or is Wii Play (ugh...) EAD as well? Not the most impressive lineup. If the Wii wasn't selling, I'm sure gamers would be ripping Nintendo left and right. Do people really care about sales that much?

Tobor said:
Uhh, about the co-op...

It still has four player co-op, right? Right?

fernoca · Jul 20, 2007

Tobor said:
Uhh, about the co-op...

Sorry, I forgot to give Giggle the memo, here it is..
"It has a more/stronger focus in single player, contrary to the other versions"

Sorry Tobor..I failed...

Tobor · Jul 20, 2007

Link316 said:
thing is we are seeing this happen again right now on the PS3 instead of the Wii

I knew that was coming. I could hear it and smell it coming.

The PS3 will not be another PS2. That ship has sailed.

Gigglepoo · Jul 20, 2007

fernoca said:
Sorry, I forgot to give Giggle the memo, here it is..
"It has a more/stronger focus in single player, contrary to the other versions"

Sorry Tobor..I failed...

WHAT!?

How about the Nintendo DS version? Does that have co-op?

fernoca · Jul 20, 2007

Gigglepoo said:
WHAT!?

How about the Nintendo DS version? Does that have co-op?

That one yeah, the Wii version at the moment is planned to be more close to the "normal" Final Fantasy games..co-op is there, but just as an additional feature rather than the main focus.

Tobor · Jul 20, 2007

Gigglepoo said:
Are you happy with Nintendo's output on the Wii? I expect EAD to show developers how to make games for the platform. They've only released WiiSports (which is a great showcase), Zelda (a GC port) and, um, Wario Ware? Or is Wii Play (ugh...) EAD as well? Not the most impressive lineup. If the Wii wasn't selling, I'm sure gamers would be ripping Nintendo left and right. Do people really care about sales that much?

Sales=games=sales, you know this.

It still has four player co-op, right? Right?

/crickets

Gigglepoo · Jul 20, 2007

fernoca said:
That one yeah, the Wii version at the moment is planned to be more close to the "normal" Final Fantasy games..co-op is there, but just as an additional feature rather than the main focus.

Oh, it still has co-op then? That's fine. Where is it anyway? I thought it was going to come out this year.

donny2112 · Jul 20, 2007

Hcoregamer00 said:
If anything they are waiting for 3rd party breakout hits to gauge hardcore games.

People who buy Nintendo games aren't hardcore gamers?

Third-party publishers just want assurance that there's a userbase on the console that will buy their game. Mario Party and Wii Play selling a ton won't convince them there's a userbase for their games. Metroid Prime 3, et al, selling a ton will, if their game is at all similar.

Edit:

Tobor said:
The PS3 will not be another PS2. That ship has sailed.

The Wii will be the PS2 for install base and smaller, quirky stuff. The 360 will be the PS2 for mega-third party hits. The PS3 will be the GameCube if the Xbox hadn't existed.

Tobor · Jul 20, 2007

fernoca said:
That one yeah, the Wii version at the moment is planned to be more close to the "normal" Final Fantasy games..co-op is there, but just as an additional feature rather than the main focus.

The DS version is really the true CC sequel at this point. The Wii version is becoming a full FF game. I wouldn't be surprised if they drop the co-op on the Wii version completely. SE is just doing it in baby steps.

J-Rzez · Jul 20, 2007

Link316 said:
thing is we are seeing this happen again right now on the PS3 instead of the Wii

Thing is, we've been shown, imo, better stuff in a shorter period of time compared to the PSone and ps2's first year... and a much higher quantity of these kinda titles as well... Sony's really unloading this year, and it doesn't look to be slowing down into 2008 either...

vanguardian1 · Jul 20, 2007

In regards to FF:CC Crystal Bearers, they didn't say they didn't have multiplayer, just a heavier focus on the singleplayer gameplay in comparison to the original Crystal Chronicles.

fernoca · Jul 20, 2007

Gigglepoo said:
Oh, it still has co-op then? That's fine. Where is it anyway? I thought it was going to come out this year.

DS game yeah..at least in Japan..
Here's an interview of them talking about the DS and Wii versions and why the changes not only on gameplay but on look of the Wii version and the more focus on single-player for both (both still have multiplayer, just as an added mode). (dated May 16, 2007)

RiskyChris · Jul 20, 2007

Link316 said:
thing is we are seeing this happen again right now on the PS3 instead of the Wii

No, we are seeing the PS3 bomb harder than either PS1/PS2.

Moz La Punk · Jul 20, 2007

the thoroughbred said:
Unfortunately you don't have to be on here 24/7 to have noticed that. Not criticizing you, but almost every other thread is about 3rd parties on Wii. They don't necessarily start of with Wii 3rd parties, but they usually end up with something like that. Basically, lots or threads have gone of on the same tangent. So its often not in the title.

Ya I know that, thing is, with all those threads going off topic about Wii's third party stuff, it appears people still aren't tired of discussing it in a thread devoted to it.

That mostly tells something about the Wii.

PolyGone · Jul 20, 2007

DeaconKnowledge said:
That's not what I get at all. Jade Raymond looks really uncomfortable.

meh, like any young game designer she is no doubt eager to impress the man and is doting on his expression and body language.

DeaconKnowledge · Jul 20, 2007

JB1981 said:
Oh god. Just stop. Seriously.

Stop what? You really think Miyamoto and Aunoma are "shitting their pants"?
They had that same look on their faces when looking at Haze too. Must have been shitting their pants m i rite?

Mithos Yggdrasill · Jul 20, 2007

ziran said:
If 3rd parties can take a main instalment in a major franchise, like RE, MGS, GTA, FF, etc, and do what Nintendo has done with Zelda in Phantom Hourglass and Mario in Mario Galaxy, they'll have huge successes imo, and please a wide range of people including the hardcore.

BUT, you need to have the best people on the job and they need as much time as it takes. Giving small B teams a year to come up with something isn't likely to create anything amazing in quality or sales.

If 3rd parties don't start putting the effort in Wii, and its sales continue as they have been doing, they're going to be in for some rough times, because the HD audience isn't growing at anywhere near a fast enough rate to make its dev costs worthwhile.

Agreed. That's exactly the point.

chemicals · Jul 20, 2007

in my opinion, E3 this year showed the 360 and PS3 leaving the Wii in the dust... and it will only get worse over time. They really screwed up by going with last gen graphics. Say what you will about gameplay vs. graphics, but when the gap in quality is this apparent, it will hurt them in the long run.

Moz La Punk · Jul 20, 2007

Oh I totally like the PS3 line up more than Wii's right now, especially after E3. But the Wii keeps on selling, it's crazy. It's only logical that more attention in development will eventually go to the system that is selling the most, right?

Y2Kev · Jul 20, 2007

ziran said:
If 3rd parties don't start putting the effort in Wii, and its sales continue as they have been doing, they're going to be in for some rough times, because the HD audience isn't growing at anywhere near a fast enough rate to make its dev costs worthwhile.

How is this true? Companies like Capcom have proved that next-gen IS worthwhile for an eastern studio. Look at how well they've done on the platform. Gears is probably near 5 mil worldwide.

It's very worthwhile.

RiskyChris · Jul 20, 2007

chemicals said:
in my opinion, E3 this year showed the 360 and PS3 leaving the Wii in the dust... and it will only get worse over time. They really screwed up by going with last gen graphics. Say what you will about gameplay vs. graphics, but when the gap in quality is this apparent, it will hurt them in the long run.

Yeah 360/PS3's 2008 lineup at E3 really bested Wii's.

JDSN · Jul 20, 2007

Slurpy said:
But that makes no damn sense. How the hell do 'ports, nongames, and small projects' test the waters? Why would they expect great sales from these low-effort outputs? There is no water to be tested- the only factor is sales, and userbase. There is little doubt wii will trump all else in userbase in the not too distant future. You dont 'test the waters' with garbage and expect great sales. I always find this logic mind-boggling.

Im not the right person to answer this since I dont belong to the industry, im just noticing a pattern here, besides, considering the comments made last week about Wii games (I think we had a thread about it last week), you dont need to sell 500K or something like that to make a profit. Theres also that Resident Evil interview from Jeuxfrance that says the port of RE4 and UC are tests.

Im sure the wii will get tons of support and more serious efforts in the future, but I think people are wrong when they think the future is close.

pvpness · Jul 20, 2007

chemicals said:
in my opinion, E3 this year showed the 360 and PS3 leaving the Wii in the dust... and it will only get worse over time. They really screwed up by going with last gen graphics. Say what you will about gameplay vs. graphics, but when the gap in quality is this apparent, it will hurt them in the long run.

QFT.

I mean doesn't anyone remember when the Neo-Geo just crushed the 16-bit systems? History repeats folks, look it up. Visuals>all 9 outta 10 times, despite price or other factors.

I feel...dirty...

StoOgE · Jul 20, 2007

Nintendo can sell as many Wii's as they want, until their customers start buying third party games, it wont matter.

Tobor · Jul 20, 2007

StoOgE said:
Nintendo can sell as many Wii's as they want, until their customers start buying third party games, it wont matter.

NPD is monday. I guess the Wii will matter to to you then.

Moz La Punk · Jul 20, 2007

StoOgE said:
Nintendo can sell as many Wii's as they want, until their customers start buying third party games, it wont matter.

Dragon Quest says hi

RiskyChris · Jul 20, 2007

StoOgE said:
Nintendo can sell as many Wii's as they want, until their customers start buying third party games, it wont matter.

Oh my head...

wsippel · Jul 20, 2007

PolyGone said:
It honestly looks like the Nintendo peeps are shitting their pants at what they are looking at, not so much bored but ... holy shit this is what we're up against? I mean, graphically.

Joke post, right? Why should they be concerned? Designing the Wii the way it is was a conscious (and obviously correct) decision, after all...

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