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Enter the Dragon Punch · Sep 9, 2015

Acer, Asus, and Lenovo are on a charm offensive at IFA this year, and their target demographic is that reliably spendthrift group we know as gamers. Collectively, these three companies account for a third of global PC shipments, and they represent an industry-wide trend toward promoting more gaming gear. The hope is that slumping PC sales can be rejuvenated by appealing to the class of users who upgrade their hardware most often and spend most lavishly.

The PC gaming market produced $21.5 billion in hardware sales last year, according to data from Jon Peddie Research, which is more than double the revenues derived from console sales. More notably, unlike the broader PC market, which continues shrinking, gaming PC sales are projected to increase over the next couple of years. The JPR analysis suggests the biggest chunk of gaming PC revenue — somewhere in the vicinity of 44 percent — comes from the so-called enthusiast segment, which the researchers identify as "very performance and style oriented, much like sports car owners."

While the numbers themselves about revenue are interesting, the entire article is an actually awesome read - from the Verge of all places.

The fact that custom built PCs are taking revenue from the prebuilt market isn't a surprise, although I disagree that offering options like a detachable watercooled laptop is "just a sign of growing desperation". A product like that will always be meant for a niche market, and the declining popularity of prebuilts and stuff like gaming laptops isn't going to change that.

I am glad, however, that gaming PC sales are forecasted to keep increasing. The platform is growing more user friendly and deserve every single day. What a wonderful time to play on PC!

Searched for this via the link in posts. Blue screen me if old.

Unrelated source, but Nvidia made this graph a year or three ago:

Will be interesting to see how software stacks up at the end of the year for platforms. I'm guessing that the ever increasing popularity of CS:GO, DOTA 2, Smite, LoL, HOTS, etc will push PC over the top.

Mivey · Sep 9, 2015

Awesome in general, but this bit stood out to me

Sports car PCs are exactly what we saw from the big manufacturers at IFA. Acer’s Predators, whether it be on the desktop or in the form of pseudo-portable laptops, ape Lamborghini’s angular shapes and aggressive motifs throughout.

Why can't gaming PC look elegant and simple instead of ostentatious and garrish? I know there are custom PC case manufacturers who actually know how proper design works, but why is this "sports car" motif pushed by pretty much every big company?

patapuf · Sep 9, 2015

I think there is definetly a bit of "car culture and tuning" aspect to PC gaming, you don't have to engage with it to have fun, but it's there.

The design of "gamer gear" reflects this as well.

Spladam · Sep 9, 2015

Surprisingly, PC gaming is has overtaken the console market consumer wise. Sadly, mobile gaming is enjoying a meteoric rise as well...

Enter the Dragon Punch · Sep 9, 2015

Mivey said:
Awesome in general, but this bit stood out to me

Why can't gaming PC look elegant and simple instead of ostentatious and garrish? I know there are custom PC case manufacturers who actually know how proper design works, but why is this "sports car" motif pushed by pretty much every big company?

Honestly? Because it works. A lot of people apparently love the overdesigned Transformers-esques aesthetics behind "professional gaming" PC equipment.

That's part of why I made a mini-itx build. Small, aluminum N200 case with no window. Fits everything I need.

Spladam said:
Surprisingly, PC gaming is has overtaken the console market consumer wise. Sadly, mobile gaming is enjoying a meteoric rise as well...

Mobile rising is something that was inevitable. Rather than looking at it as something sad, I look at it with excitement for what developers on the platform could deliver as handheld experiences on them.

bodyboarder · Sep 9, 2015

Mivey said:
Awesome in general, but this bit stood out to me

Why can't gaming PC look elegant and simple instead of ostentatious and garrish? I know there are custom PC case manufacturers who actually know how proper design works, but why is this "sports car" motif pushed by pretty much every big company?

At a guess the demographic they are chasing.

Mushroomer25 · Sep 9, 2015

It's an interesting trend, though I wonder how much the 'PC revenue doubles console revenue' can be taken seriously - when I imagine most PC gamers are putting in more money to build their hardware. Point of entry for console is $350-400, PC is closer to $600-700. So wouldn't they see more revenue with the same number of actual customers?

Gunslinger · Sep 9, 2015

A high end graphics card alone costs 400-500 dollars. Not surprising.

Enter the Dragon Punch · Sep 9, 2015

Gunslinger said:
A high end graphics card alone costs 400-500 dollars. Not surprising.

I think that a lot of this growth is spurred by the opposite. Cards like the 750ti is making proper PC gaming for new AAA titles more achievable on a low budget than ever.

Nyoro SF · Sep 9, 2015

This makes sense. Unlike consoles which tend to be region-heavy, PCs are utilized fairly ubiquitously across the globe... PC hardware and its revisions is pervasive through every single market internationally.

EDIT: ^This is just conjecture.

More_Badass · Sep 9, 2015

Spladam said:
Surprisingly, PC gaming is has overtaken the console market consumer wise. Sadly, mobile gaming is enjoying a meteoric rise as well...

Not sad at all. Tons of great games on mobile. PC and mobile are pretty closely related. PC indies make their way to mobile each year

MGrant · Sep 9, 2015

Enter the Dragon Punch said:
That's part of why I made a mini-itx build. Small, aluminum N200 case with no window. Fits everything I need.

My man. Mini-ITX was a dream come true for me, and with my last build I was able to create something powerful, unobtrusive in appearance, and most importantly, capable of fitting securely in a carry-on while I travel. The PC I built this year is less than half the size and weight of the one I built in 2011, about $100 cheaper, and an order of magnitude more powerful.

texhnolyze · Sep 9, 2015

I'm more interested in the data of how many low/mid/high end PC users there really are.
8 out 10 of my friends/family IRL have pretty low budget PC ($300-400) that can barely play Dota 2 & CSGO. Only my online friends who own mid-high end PC.

PdotMichael · Sep 9, 2015

Well, some profit data would be interesting.

Gunslinger · Sep 9, 2015

Enter the Dragon Punch said:
I think that a lot of this growth is spurred by the opposite. Cards like the 750ti is making proper PC gaming for new AAA titles more achievable on a low budget than ever.

I guess but 750 ti can barely play witcher 3 on medium. I have a 760ti and I can barely get it to 30+fps on high. I can get that out of a console for cheaper price (most people have a PC for everyday use anyway). But I think f2p games and games like CS:GO, and lot of fps horror games are pushing the PC sales for sure, They dont require demanding specs and thanks to lets players they are extremely popular. I am sure minecraft alone brings in millions of players. and Can be played on a toaster.

More_Badass · Sep 9, 2015

texhnolyze said:
I'm more interested in the data of how many low/mid/high end PC users there really are.
8 out 10 of my friends/family IRL have pretty low budget PC ($300-400) that can barely play Dota 2 & CSGO. Only my online friends who own mid-high end PC.

I have a laptop with an Intel i5 and HD 5500, can play most indies and some AAA stuff like Arkham City, Tomb Raider, MGS V, etc.

Enter the Dragon Punch · Sep 9, 2015

Nyoro SF said:
This makes sense. Unlike consoles which tend to be region-heavy, PCs are utilized fairly ubiquitously across the globe... PC hardware and its revisions is pervasive through every single market internationally.

EDIT: ^This is just conjecture.

Yeah, that's why I presented it as my opinion rather than fact lol

More_Badass said:
Not sad at all. Tons of great games on mobile. PC and mobile are pretty closely related. PC indies make their way to mobile each year

This. If anyone needs an example, Leo's Fortune just dropped on Steam. Wonderful platformer that found it's roots in iOS and Android.

MGrant said:
My man. Mini-ITX was a dream come true for me, and with my last build I was able to create something powerful, unobtrusive in appearance, and most importantly, capable of fitting securely in a carry-on while I travel. The PC I built this year is less than half the size and weight of the one I built in 2011, about $100 cheaper, and an order of magnitude more powerful.

It's so great. My temps are fine, and it's so much easier to go to LAN parties with friends or travel with the PC. I love it!

BlazinAm · Sep 9, 2015

"PC gaming hardware" usage is is not encapsulating the whole PC hardware market in their data that much is obvious... but i do wonder the term means to them.

Zoned · Sep 9, 2015

PdotMichael said:
Well, some profit data would be interesting.

I can confidently say that console manufacturers don't make shit from hardware. It's all about the software and ecosystem. Whereas manufacturers like Intel and Nvidia keep milking the high end segment for 3-4 years and earn shit ton of profit.

Now lets see how Steam machines contribute to PC as a platform for gaming.

JordanN · Sep 9, 2015

Zoned said:
I can confidently say that console manufacturers don't make shit from hardware. It's all about the software and ecosystem. Whereas manufacturers like Intel and Nvidia keep milking the high end segment for 3-4 years and earn shit ton of profit.

Now lets see how Steam machines contribute to PC as a platform for gaming.

Then why aren't MS/Sony & Nintendo all 3rd party publishers?

There's obviously money to be made, especially when all 3* decided they want profitable hardware instead of losing money like last gen.

*Nintendo was the only one to lose money with Wii U at launch, but later turned it around.

Crimsonclaw111 · Sep 9, 2015

JordanN said:
Then why aren't MS/Sony and & Nintnedo all 3rd party publishers?

There's obviously money to be made, especially when all 3* decided profitable hardware is for the best.

*Nintendo lost money with Wii U at launch, but later turned it around.

The big 3 make money off royalties and licensing for every game on their systems, in additional to the 100% profit of being a first party on their own projects.

Mohasus · Sep 9, 2015

JordanN said:
Then why aren't MS/Sony and & Nintnedo all 3rd party publishers?

Because they make money from royalties.

patapuf · Sep 9, 2015

JordanN said:
Then why aren't MS/Sony and & Nintnedo all 3rd party publishers?

There's obviously money to be made, especially when all 3* decided profitable hardware is for the best.

*Nintendo lost money with Wii U at launch, but later turned it around.

Because as platform holders, they can charge a royalty for all games sold on their platform. And they get to charge that when the games are printed on disk.

With the advent of digital sales they get a cut from all those as well since games can only be sold on PSN/XBox live ect.

Also, while the actual console is often loss-leading, peripherals like controllers (or the memory cards of old) have good margins.

The reason consoles are often sold at a loss is because you want to establish installbase so you can earn money with all of the above.

PdotMichael · Sep 9, 2015

Zoned said:
I can confidently say that console manufacturers don't make shit from hardware. It's all about the software and ecosystem. Whereas manufacturers like Intel and Nvidia keep milking the high end segment for 3-4 years and earn shit ton of profit.

Now lets see how Steam machines contribute to PC as a platform for gaming.

Many of the hardware companies aren't profitable right now so just looking at revenue is quite misleading when talking about the health of the PC market.

mrklaw · Sep 9, 2015

I'd happily buy a prebuilt PC if it was designed to be simple and upgradeable. Too many can't be updated easily and have pituful power supplies.there should be enough margin by eg lenovo building the entire PC vs us buying separate pieces which the companies make profit on each one.

A simple box you can just plug your choice of GPU in. Small, quiet, choice of SSD and HDD, i5 or i7.

JordanN · Sep 9, 2015

Mohasus said:
Because they make money from royalties.

Relying on royalties seems like a bigger uptake. Especially when there's no guarantee your system will sell the most multiplats (or in Nintendo's case, miss them entirely).

Whereas every console sold will always result in a profit.

Nzyme32 · Sep 9, 2015

texhnolyze said:
I'm more interested in the data of how many low/mid/high end PC users there really are.
8 out 10 of my friends/family IRL have pretty low budget PC ($300-400) that can barely play Dota 2 & CSGO. Only my online friends who own mid-high end PC.

BlazinAm said:
"PC gaming hardware" usage is is not encapsulating the whole PC hardware market in their data that much is obvious... but i do wonder the term means to them.

The article links directly to the research that goes into a lot more detail (You have to pay for the full thing, so its more of an abstract) - it seems clear they are not including random low budget family computing but things oriented specifically towards gamers including the low end to the enthusiast side

spekkeh · Sep 9, 2015

Zoned said:
I can confidently say that console manufacturers don't make shit from hardware.

Both Sony and Nintendo seem to be making a profit on every current gen console sold. I thought in previous threads Aquamarine and the like calculated that for Nintendo the hardware business is actually a quite substantial part of their operating income.

Of course it's no comparison to Nvidia who just charges double and people happily pay for it.

(which also partially explains why it's raking in so much cash in comparison charts, you need to sell five Wii U's for one gaming pc)

Durante · Sep 9, 2015

Mivey said:
Awesome in general, but this bit stood out to me

Why can't gaming PC look elegant and simple instead of ostentatious and garrish? I know there are custom PC case manufacturers who actually know how proper design works, but why is this "sports car" motif pushed by pretty much every big company?

EIther it sells, or enough marketeers think it sells. Luckily it's easy enough to get tasteful cases if you build your own.

Since I read about it just yesterday, at least the new Zotac ZBox isn't too garish:

Though I'm not a huge fan of the design.

Mikeside · Sep 9, 2015

Gunslinger said:
I guess but 750 ti can barely play witcher 3 on medium. I have a 760ti and I can barely get it to 30+fps on high. I can get that out of a console for cheaper price (most people have a PC for everyday use anyway). But I think f2p games and games like CS:GO, and lot of fps horror games are pushing the PC sales for sure, They dont require demanding specs and thanks to lets players they are extremely popular. I am sure minecraft alone brings in millions of players. and Can be played on a toaster.

I have a 750ti in my portable PC and it plays mgsv and witcher 3 on reasonably high settings & they run like butter.

I used an oldish Lenovo with an i5 that I got free from work and upgraded the RAM to 8gb. Best freebie I ever got.

Abinash117 · Sep 9, 2015

JordanN said:
Relying on royalties seems like a bigger uptake. Especially when there's no guarantee your system will sell the most multiplats (or in Nintendo's case, miss them entirely).

Whereas every console sold will always result in a profit.

It doesn't need to sell the most it needs to sell enough. Most multiplats nearly always sell millions on the consoles the ones that usually don't are indies and niche games .

Shining Sunshine · Sep 9, 2015

It's more like PC hardware is getting 2x more expensive.

Goddamn video card prices!

Dr.Acula · Sep 9, 2015

If Sony and MS could get consumers to buy a slight refresh of their consoles every two years they would. It's crazy how often PC gamers are willing to shell out hundreds of dollars on a biennial basis.

It's neither good nor bad. It's how Starbucks made their fortune, by betting on people buying five dollar coffee every day.

patapuf · Sep 9, 2015

Dr.Acula said:
If Sony and MS could get consumers to buy a slight refresh of their consoles every two years they would. It's crazy how often PC gamers are willing to shell out hundreds of dollars on a biennial basis.

It's neither good nor bad. It's how Starbucks made their fortune, by betting on people buying five dollar coffee every day.

Endless backward compability helps. The games you own can also be played at a higher fidelity on better hardware without needing to shell out money for "remasters".

TechnicPuppet · Sep 9, 2015

When they compare software revenue what are they actually comparing?

W!CK!D · Sep 9, 2015

BlazinAm said:
but i do wonder the term means to them.

Link explicitly speaks of peripherals like monitors and even routers. It's possible that every console gamer who uses a PC monitor for video output and a router (who doesn't use a router, anyway?) will be part of that listed revenue. If that's the case, a PC gamer with, for example, a triple-screen setup of three $300 monitors and a $100 router would count for $1000 alone without even taking his PC into account. A PS4 owner with a $2000 TV and a $100 router would count for $399.

As the article said, PC sales are shrinking in general: Link

wazoo · Sep 9, 2015

Gunslinger said:
I guess but 750 ti can barely play witcher 3 on medium. I have a 760ti and I can barely get it to 30+fps on high. I can get that out of a console for cheaper price (most people have a PC for everyday use anyway)
.

As you said "witcher 3 on medium" is well into console perfs range, and as you said also, most people need a PC for other tasks.

The only real cost of PC gaming is the cost of having a dedicated card over an integrated Intel HD card (and this also is becoming less an issue as those cards also improve).

tearsintherain · Sep 9, 2015

I wonder how some of the game publishers truly feel about the PC market. You have baffling decisions like Rocksteady outsourcing their PC port of batman arkham knight, creating an incredibly bad port which has really soured customers. Witcher 3 devs said that the PS4 and xbox one ports are needed for profits, although they haven't broken down platform sales. On the other hand Mad Max and MGS 5 have both had really good PC ports.

SteamSpy reports MGS 5 at currently 500k owners, I think console versions have already sold 3m (or more) copies so thats a vast difference in initial profits if that holds true. I believe MGS 5 is steam only so its a pretty good game to try and compare.

Things like World of Warcraft, DOTA, LOL, etc imo can skew the numbers too. A big chunk of those players play JUST those games and rarely buy anything else, and they may spend a ton of money per year on their MOBA/MMO.

On the other hand PC games have long lifetimes, whereas a console game may sell 3m copies in a year it drops off pretty fast after that and more or less vanishes, whereas a PC game can live on forever with steam sales and the like. I'm sure things like Mass Effect or Assassins Creed still sell incredibly well on PC. But you are selling at much, much lower price points too after a while.

Nzyme32 · Sep 9, 2015

W!CK!D said:
Link explicitly speaks of peripherals like monitors and even routers. It's possible that every console gamer who uses a PC monitor for video output and a router (who doesn't use a router, anyway?) will be part of that listed revenue. If that's the case, a PC gamer with, for example, a triple-screen setup of three $300 monitors and a $100 router would count for $1000 alone without even taking his PC into account. A PS4 owner with a $2000 TV and a $100 router would count for $399.

As the article said, PC sales are shrinking in general: Link

You didn't read the research article abstract then, which is specifically about the computer hardware. The verge is using that 2014 research as a preamble to their article specifically discussing the scene of IFA 2015 and that some of the biggest companies are focusing on that gamer crowd for all their stuff - which isn't necessarily the best idea, but it is where continued market growth is seen rather than decline.

The verge article does make it clear that the overall PC market is shrinking, which makes sense as the casual user doesn't need the desktop in favour of mobile solutions or even single PC devices rather than multiple solutions as in the past. Yet the PC gaming side of things continues to see growth, not decline.

But of course this would be a W1cked interpretation of any such discussion

PdotMichael · Sep 9, 2015

tearsintherain said:
I wonder how some of the game publishers truly feel about the PC market. You have baffling decisions like Rocksteady outsourcing their PC port of batman arkham knight, creating an incredibly bad port which has really soured customers. Witcher 3 devs said that the PS4 and xbox one ports are needed for profits, although they haven't broken down platform sales. On the other hand Mad Max and MGS 5 have both had really good PC ports.

SteamSpy reports MGS 5 at currently 500k owners, I think console versions have already sold 3m (or more) copies so thats a vast difference in initial profits if that holds true. I believe MGS 5 is steam only so its a pretty good game to try and compare.

Things like World of Warcraft, DOTA, LOL, etc imo can skew the numbers too. A big chunk of those players play JUST those games and rarely buy anything else, and they may spend a ton of money per year on their MOBA/MMO.

On the other hand PC games have long lifetimes, whereas a console game may sell 3m copies in a year it drops off pretty fast after that and more or less vanishes, whereas a PC game can live on forever with steam sales and the like. I'm sure things like Mass Effect or Assassins Creed still sell incredibly well on PC. But you are selling at much, much lower price points too after a while.

The price pressure is not so big on consoles as on PC with all the not profitable sales. There is a reason why f2p gained traction on PC and mobile first - both markets with unhealthy price expectations.

Renekton · Sep 9, 2015

wazoo said:
As you said "witcher 3 on medium" is well into console perfs range, and as you said also, most people need a PC for other tasks.

The only real cost of PC gaming is the cost of having a dedicated card over an integrated Intel HD card (and this also is becoming less an issue as those cards also improve).

I would advise against upgrading old premade PCs. Weak PSU, mod-unfriendly cases, existing bugs which spill over, mobo might a busted slot, ending up becoming tech support. CPU might be too weak, the i3 SBs are bleh.

W!CK!D · Sep 9, 2015

Nzyme32 said:
You didn't read the research article abstract then, which is specifically about the computer hardware. The verge is using that 2014 research as a preamble to their article specifically discussing the scene of IFA 2015 and that some of the biggest companies are focusing on that gamer crowd for all their stuff - which isn't necessarily the best idea, but it is where continued market growth is seen rather than decline.

The verge article does make it clear that the overall PC market is shrinking, which makes sense as the casual user doesn't need the desktop in favour of mobile solutions or even single PC devices rather than multiple solutions as in the past. Yet the PC gaming side of things continues to see growth, not decline.

Jon Peddie Research, just like the article, explicitely speaks of "accessories":

The Worldwide PC Gaming Hardware Market report series by Jon Peddie Research which covers 33 countries, notebooks, desktops, DIY, and accessories, comes in three versions: Enthusiast, Performance, and Mainstream, with each version selling for $7,500 and the set of three for $15,000. In addition, with the set is a summary report of the Total PC Gaming Hardware Market worldwide and subscription discounts.

"Accessories" can mean anything. They're probably even counting my brother's $1000 Fanatec Wheel (which can be used on console, too)

Nzyme32 said:
But of course this would be a W1cked interpretation of any such discussion

That's lowbrow.

Nzyme32 · Sep 9, 2015

W!CK!D said:
Jon Peddie Research, just like the article, explicitely speaks of "accessories":

"Accessories" can mean anything. They're probably even counting my brother's $1000 Fanatec Wheel (which can be used on console, too)

That's lowbrow.

That's the full market research series analysis which is far more in depth and looking at a breadth of areas including those of home made systems and sales, not what the press release is discussing. From reading this press release, at no point do they discuss "routers" for this study.

Jon Peddie Research (JPR), the industry's research and consulting firm for graphics and multimedia, reported in its newest gaming market study that the PC Gaming Hardware Market,which consists of personal computers, upgrades, and peripherals used for gaming, is strong and healthy amongst the backdrop of general declines in the PC market.

Peripherals does include a whole bunch of stuff no doubt such as speakers headphones keyboards mice etc, but I'd highly doubt routers - which is a specific verge jib at the hilariously comical looking Asus router aimed at "gamers". The console hardware market consists of many of the same categories but of course there will be differences in what is included and of course PC hardware can stretch into much higher prices for certain areas

Renekton · Sep 9, 2015

verge said:
Whether gaming provides a shot in the arm for these companies or not, it promises to only ever be a temporary solution. As Anssi Vanjoki, Nokia's one-time mobile chief, once said of building Android phones, the action is akin to boys "peeing in their pants" for warmth in the winter. He's been proven accurate by the passage of time, and there's now an analogous situation for PC makers, who live and die by selling increasingly large volumes of devices, but are facing a consumer preference shift toward mobile devices. Even if the present push for gamers' attention triggers a full, global upgrade cycle, what will Acer and Asus do in a year's time when everyone's got a still-perfectly-capable GeForce GTX plus Intel Skylake combo in their machine?

Verge is calling this a rare upgrade cycle that brings very brief respite to low margin OEMs like Asus.

I guess it makes sense for GPU vendors to pander to the Smokey's / Viveks of the world. Sorry Stephan.

W!CK!D · Sep 9, 2015

Nzyme32 said:
Peripherals does include a whole bunch of stuff no doubt such as speakers headphones keyboards mice etc, but I'd highly doubt routers

Okay just let's ignore routers for a second.

So if a PC gamer uses multiple monitors, a gaming keyboard, a gaming mice, a gaming mousepad, probably a mouse bungie, PC speakers, a headset, and a driving wheel, it's probably all taken into account. Does this research take TVs, hifi speakers, amplifiers, projectors into account? How do they know that someone who bought a headset will use it for PC or for a console. How do they know if a wheel will be used for a PC or a console? How do they know that someone who bought PC speakers is a PC gamer?

I'm using a $150 Filco and I use it for work and not for gaming. I have an expensive SSD but not a single game installed on it. When I install a $1000 SSD into my PS4, will it count as "PC Hardware Revenue"?

Nzyme32 · Sep 9, 2015

W!CK!D said:
Okay just let's ignore routers for a second.

So if a PC gamer uses multiple monitors, a gaming keyboard, a gaming mice, a gaming mousepad, probably a mouse bungie, PC speakers, a headset, and a driving wheel, it's probably all taken into account. Does this research take TVs, hifi speakers, amplifiers, projectors into account? How do they know that someone who bought a headset will use it for PC or for a console. How do they know if a wheel will be used for a PC or a console?

peripherals used for gaming

Yeah I'm sure a mouse pad is a gaming peripheral and I am sure a respected researcher would use differing measurements when comparing both PC and Console hardware markets. But keep going, I don't have time to walk you through it

RubenCordeiro · Sep 9, 2015

Mushroomer25 said:
It's an interesting trend, though I wonder how much the 'PC revenue doubles console revenue' can be taken seriously - when I imagine most PC gamers are putting in more money to build their hardware. Point of entry for console is $350-400, PC is closer to $600-700. So wouldn't they see more revenue with the same number of actual customers?

Yes that is true.

Also, console manufacturers (Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo) sell their hardware with a relatively low profit margin (sometimes at a loss) in order to capitalize on software sales. That has been the console business model for a long time and it works.

Comparing such different markets in terms of hardware revenue is like comparing apples to oranges.

tearsintherain said:
I wonder how some of the game publishers truly feel about the PC market. You have baffling decisions like Rocksteady outsourcing their PC port of batman arkham knight, creating an incredibly bad port which has really soured customers. Witcher 3 devs said that the PS4 and xbox one ports are needed for profits, although they haven't broken down platform sales. On the other hand Mad Max and MGS 5 have both had really good PC ports.

SteamSpy reports MGS 5 at currently 500k owners, I think console versions have already sold 3m (or more) copies so thats a vast difference in initial profits if that holds true. I believe MGS 5 is steam only so its a pretty good game to try and compare.

Things like World of Warcraft, DOTA, LOL, etc imo can skew the numbers too. A big chunk of those players play JUST those games and rarely buy anything else, and they may spend a ton of money per year on their MOBA/MMO.

On the other hand PC games have long lifetimes, whereas a console game may sell 3m copies in a year it drops off pretty fast after that and more or less vanishes, whereas a PC game can live on forever with steam sales and the like. I'm sure things like Mass Effect or Assassins Creed still sell incredibly well on PC. But you are selling at much, much lower price points too after a while.

Batman: Arkham City initial PC sales were really good after gamers realized how bad the port was and refunds started to be asked for.

I am not going to pretend that PC game's revenue always match the console versions. However, there is still great profit to make from it.

That's what I don't get. I do not know if it was Rocksteady's decision to not make the original port of their game or if it was a decision made by Warner Brothers. What I do know is that it was a very poor decision to make.

Witcher 3 sold really well in the PC market: http://www.dsogaming.com/news/the-w...-copies-1-3-million-were-from-the-pc-version/

If some publishers didn't release the game to the PC I would assume they didn't consider the platform profitable for a specific game. However, when they release a bad port I see that as pure disregard and money grabbing, specially in a time were even beat' em ups and hack and slash games are being launched regularly on PC. Games which by design, were assumed to be only popular on gaming consoles.

Bottom line: consoles matter, PC matters.

Nzyme32 · Sep 9, 2015

tearsintherain said:
I wonder how some of the game publishers truly feel about the PC market. You have baffling decisions like Rocksteady outsourcing their PC port of batman arkham knight, creating an incredibly bad port which has really soured customers. Witcher 3 devs said that the PS4 and xbox one ports are needed for profits, although they haven't broken down platform sales. On the other hand Mad Max and MGS 5 have both had really good PC ports.

SteamSpy reports MGS 5 at currently 500k owners, I think console versions have already sold 3m (or more) copies so thats a vast difference in initial profits if that holds true. I believe MGS 5 is steam only so its a pretty good game to try and compare.

Things like World of Warcraft, DOTA, LOL, etc imo can skew the numbers too. A big chunk of those players play JUST those games and rarely buy anything else, and they may spend a ton of money per year on their MOBA/MMO.

On the other hand PC games have long lifetimes, whereas a console game may sell 3m copies in a year it drops off pretty fast after that and more or less vanishes, whereas a PC game can live on forever with steam sales and the like. I'm sure things like Mass Effect or Assassins Creed still sell incredibly well on PC. But you are selling at much, much lower price points too after a while.

Relating to PC v everything else games sales, its pretty hard to make these comparisons of all these titles and seemingly throw out the context behind each. The library of content competing for users time and money are vastly different in size scale and scope, their franchise / series history differs or might not even exist, and their preferences towards certain types of games are vastly different. Particularly in AAA gaming, this becomes obvious. Looking at something like dark souls series and then MGS series shows that you can't just slap a label on how well things will do, making some comparisons a bit useless without the context of why these sales / responses differ so greatly.

Sijil · Sep 9, 2015

Really enjoying the rise of PC again, never would I thought I would see another Shadowrun and Battletech game or a Wing Commander and Baldur's Gate successor. This the best thing about the resurrection of PC gaming, that we're getting real PC games again the only thing lacking is a critical entry in the RTS genre aside from Starcraft or whatever CA produces, a new C&C or something.

Kouriozan · Sep 9, 2015

As long as we get more and more Japanese support on it, I'm really happy.

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