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Persona Mafia |OT| Memento Mori

H

Hyperactivity

Banned
When did I admit I was voting for exmachina?

I seriously want you to think through this from the eyes of believeing I am scum and buddies with TheExodu5:

DAY END IS AT 3:00 PM

1:38 PM: The vote is tied:

exmachina64 (4)
hyperactivity
theexodu5
starsketch
ii-vanguard-ii

pk gaming (2)
plop
natiko

theexodu5 (4)
FEP
ty4on
exmachina65
pk gaming

2:16 PM: Flux votes pk gaming, PK Gaming (3)
2:25 PM: franconp votes exmachina64, exmachina64 (5)
2:27 PM: Hyperactivity votes TheExodu5 from exmachina64, TheExodu5 (5), exmachina64 (4)

If I'm TheExodu5's partner, I've just gone from putting his competition in the lead to putting him in the lead, simultaneously possibly helping the chances of a pile on for TheExodu5

2:34 PM: Hyperactivity votes exmachina64, TheExodu5 (4), exmachina64 (5)

This was done in response to a question asking if I meant to snipe the vote. I meant to clarify that I would be satisfied with either lynch and said as much

2:35 PM: Style votes exmachina64, exmachina64 (6)

STOP! If I'm TheExody5's partner, this is the PERFECT opportunity for me to stop vote flipping. Flux just voted PK, he evidently doesn't like either lynch. Sorian won't vote for a tie, so if the possibility comes up he'll act to avoid it. If I keep my vote right here, the exmachina64 lynch has a decent lead and safety. Instead....

2:36 PMHyperactivity votes TheExodu5, quoting Style's vote; exmachina64 (5), TheExodu5 (5)

I tie the vote again. Sorian, flux, and verelios were in the thread at this time and hadn't voted for either side, and I'm fairly certain no side wants a tie. I'm actively increasing the pressure, forcing players to break a tie so that we can possibly analyze which side they broke the tie for

2:37 PM: Sorian votes TheExodu5, TheExodu5 (6)

Sorian said:
Let's see what the fence sitters do then.

VOTE: theexodu5
Click to expand...

Confirmed townie has the same idea as me. Of course, if I really have the same idea as him, there's no tie currently, right? So....


2:52 PM: Hyperactivity unvotes, TheExodu5 (5), exmachina64 (5)

After some back and forth and discussion, it's clear the lack of a tie isn't helping my goal or Sorian's. So I create the tie situation again, trying to force everyone to pick a side so that their vote can be analyzed. And I show that yes indeed, I did have the same idea as Sorian (confirmed town), in forcing people to tiebreak the vote

2:57 PM: Hyperactivity votes PK Gaming, TheExodu5 (5), exmachina65 (5), PK Gaming (4)

Verelios isn't budging, so I mess around, try to see if adding a 3rd candidate might get a reaction.

2:58 PM: Hyperactivity makes this post
Hyperactivity said:
Sorian, if it comes down to it, I'll do the tiebreaker. I don't want both of us trying to do it and creating a tie, feel free to lynch me tomorrow or shoot me tonight if I screw it up
Click to expand...

I want you to take a moment to consider the timestamp from this post (2:58 PM), the day end timestamp (3:00 PM), and GAF's 1 minute time limit in between posts. Now consider that 2:58 could well mean 2:58:50, etc.

I specifically take the time to try and avoid a situation where Sorian unvotes to avoid the tie (for example), and I vote TheExodu5 to create it again while trying to also avoid the tie. If I fuck this up, feel free to lynch me

2:59 PM: Flux budges and votes for TheExodu5, accomplishing the goal by giving us a HUGE town read for him. He could have saved his buddy at this point and he didn't, and by my pressuring I created a situation where I got a major town read for everyone and didn't save a scum (by keeping my vote on exmachina64)

3:00 PMHyperactivity votes for TheExodu5

I suppose you have no reason to believe it, so I'll try to give a really stark detail from the situation to try and make this sound more believable. After posting at 2:58 PM, I realized that I couldn't post my TheExodu5 prepared vote (I had posts ready for both of them btw), and I immediately went to refresh the timer. 23 seconds before I could post again, 35 seconds before the game timer hit 0.

What's more, as proof that I posted right at the beginning of the 3:00 minute, well, I made it before the day end post, didn't I? The next two timestamps are also at 3:00 PM, but my 3:00 timestamp post comes first.

So I'll need you to think to yourself: if you would've doubted two votes for TheExodu5 at 2:59 PM would likely have not been in made in reaction to the other, why would you think one made at the beginning of the 3:00 minute would be made in reaction to the other?

3:00 PM Sophia ends Day 1
3:00 PM Verelios budges and votes for TheExodu5

Go back a second

Read through pages 19 and 20 again.

Had I been partners with TheExodu5, I sealed his fate when I voted for him after the exmachina64 vote hit 6 people with Style. Had I kept my vote where it was, sure, maybe Sorian still votes for TheExodu5, but until we forced the hands of Flux and Verelios by keeping a tie in place to the very very last minute, both players had shown EXTREME reluctance to vote for either side. TheExodu5 would only have been lynched had someone from the exmachina64 side had switched and voted for TheExodu5

From the exmachina64 vote, starsketch and franconp both weren't present, theexodu5 wasn't about to switch. Style, il-vanguard-il, and Hyperactivity were the only 3 that could have switched the lynch from exmachina64 to TheExodu5 in that situation, and I feel safe in saying I'm the most likely town from that group in most people's eyes

Hell, il-vanguard-il last posted at 1:32 PM, I don't know if he was available, which would have brought it down to just Style and I.

EXCEPT, BECAUSE I AM TOWN, I make the move to try and force as many people as possible to vote. If TheExodu5 was my partner, I actively worked against his interests just then. He went from most likely surviving to it being closer to a 50/50 split. All for what? A better read on if someone might be town? How does that benefit scum?

So yeah, make your case for why I'm scum. Make your case for why my actions at the end of the day were suspicious and scummy
 
V

Verelios

Member
PK Gaming said:
Nice acting, good effort Sketch. That was fabulous to the max.

Anyway, tell your scum buddies that we're going to get them back for what they did to Sorian and Ty4on.

wfTlSgR.gif
Click to expand...

PK Gaming said:
8bd.jpg
Click to expand...
Odd, very odd. What made you start suspecting SK when you were previously content to townread* her?
 
N

Natiko

Banned
Your detailed breakdown with the time stamps pointed out does make a good case that you weren't acting in TheExodu5's favor. That wasn't actually the crux of my argument for why I was considering you scum though, and I've also pointed out that of the three I said I feared were scum you would be the last one I would target unless I was very, very certain you were scum.

You being viewed as potential scum to me mainly comes down to a few points. You seem to be either defending or bare minimum shifting the attention away from a couple people that have been suspected of being scum both by myself and others (II-Vanguard-II and BlackBuzzard). You then further have pushed the attention to franconp without making an argument that is particularly convincing. I mean to the extent that I still wouldn't even list him as a light scum lean. Your argument has come down to "well he voted for exmachina" which is true and could be a sign of him being scum, but I posit this:

If Flux had swung the vote to exmachina, wouldn't you have followed suit? I find it very unlikely you would have voted for TheExodu5 and caused a tie. Do you disagree with this reasoning? You even admitted to having a post ready to go for each of them and that you internally were leaving a bit more towards exmachina.

If what I just said is true, then Flux decided your vote. Not you. Your vote doesn't actually reflect your thoughts so much as it is a reflection of Flux who I believe we both think is town.

My point here is you (and by extension Flux) could just have easily been in the position franconp is in. I just think using that as the primary reason to lynch someone is flimsy.

Really it comes down to two things. Either your actions regarding who you're trying to place our focus on are because you're Town and genuinely think you're right and are trying to shut up weaker players like myself and some of the other newbies or you're scum trying to misdirect us. I'm perfectly willing to believe the former, but that requires more convincing. That's why I've been pushing back against what you've said in regards to franconp. If my reads on BlackBuzzard and franconp are that far off the mark then fine, I know I don't have as much experience as plenty others do. But convince me. I won't just tag along on whoever your suspect is to try and fit in.

I voted PK Gaming yesterday because I thought his inactivity followed by explosion of activity and sudden aggression was strange. It read to me like an overreaction to being viewed as a suspect. His further actions since that post (I don't recall when it came during the first day phase but it was before everyone started the toss up between exmachina and TheExodu5 which if you go look at my reads you can probably guess which side I would have fell on) have alleviated that concern more. I would lean Town now, and I'll own up to my read being off initially.

I just need more evidence if I'm going to flip on franconp. So far there just hasn't been much.
 
P

PK Gaming

Member
Hyperactivity said:
Explain why

Because seriously, iirc, you had the same sorta reason as me. Like I looked at your reason and was like "yup, that nails my feelings on this"
Click to expand...

Sure thing

Let's flashback to (you guessed it), Sketch's pre-game quote

StarSketch said:
-laughs her ass off at her role PM-
Click to expand...

There is absolutely, absolutely, absolutely no way someone would out themselves as scum immediately. It draws unnecessary attention to them and becomes a consistent talking point (I mean we're still talking about it). To counter this point, some people have brought up the idea that it might be some sort of double feint on her part, but it's not, and i'll use personal experience to back this up. Sketch and I frequent the same IRC channel, and she tends to do this sort of thing from time to time. As in, talk in the 3rd person to describe something that's recently happened to her (because she's an expressive person)

I mean absolute no disrespect intended Starsketch, but i'm making my perspective as clear as possible.

There's no way Sketch is scum.
 
N

Natiko

Banned
Whoops, really didn't expect more posts to sneak in. I'm on mobile too so I wasn't checking while typing that out.

On the topic of Star, I'm inclined to believe she has a PR. That was my first suspicion based on her pregame post and a lot of the posts shifting it to being a coincidence unrelated to the game or some such I figured were all of us hoping to not draw too much attention to her and force a claim on day one. I still don't think she should have claimed now when there was no risk to her. Now all it means is scum will target her and kill her or they'll leave her and we'll be too suspicious of any info she provides since she is living after a PR claim and we'll have to lynch her purely to verify anything she has said. Bit of a crappy situation.
 
H

Hyperactivity

Banned
That's not the point

I acted to the benefit of town when I created the ties, and I will at least try to convince you that I barely had time to process the Flux vote after my attempted vtoe for TheExodu5 failed due to the time limit.

Regardless of that, yes, had my original tie break in favor of the Exodu5 failed, and I saw Flux voting for exmachina64, I would have voted for exmachina64 or not voted. But if I was TheExodu5's teammate, I wouldn't have helped create a situation that was so risky for him in the first place (even if it did end up not ending in his lynch), as I could have easily put my vote onto exmachina64 at any point and thus saved TheExodu5 because "it's getting too close and I don't want to risk the tie anymore"

I both made sure the lynched scum wasn't safe and never took the opportunity to save him. It's the same reason I town read verelios for his actions yesterday; yes, he could have just acted after seeing flux's vote and not wanting to look bad, but the fact of the matter is that he not only took a long time to work to lynch theexodu5 but he also took a long time acting to SAVE TheExodu5.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Both of what you guys are saying (Natiko and Hyperactivity) makes sense. Pretty elaborate dissection of the end-of-day voting patterns for D1.

Without the tie situation pushing me to choose a side, exmachina would have very likely been lynched. I'm glad I chose right, in the end.

I'd like for Style to give us a reads list before his inevitable death, if only to give us more stuff to parse once the deed's done. Might as well just vote for it now.

Vote: Style

My current additional suspects are:

1. StarSketch
2. PK Gaming
3. Verelios
4. franconp
 
N

Natiko

Banned
Hyperactivity said:
That's not the point

I acted to the benefit of town when I created the ties, and I will at least try to convince you that I barely had time to process the Flux vote after my attempted vtoe for TheExodu5 failed due to the time limit.

Regardless of that, yes, had my original tie break in favor of the Exodu5 failed, and I saw Flux voting for exmachina64, I would have voted for exmachina64 or not voted. But if I was TheExodu5's teammate, I wouldn't have helped create a situation that was so risky for him in the first place (even if it did end up not ending in his lynch), as I could have easily put my vote onto exmachina64 at any point and thus saved TheExodu5 because "it's getting too close and I don't want to risk the tie anymore"

I both made sure the lynched scum wasn't safe and never took the opportunity to save him. It's the same reason I town read verelios for his actions yesterday; yes, he could have just acted after seeing flux's vote and not wanting to look bad, but the fact of the matter is that he not only took a long time to work to lynch theexodu5 but he also took a long time acting to SAVE TheExodu5.
Click to expand...
Like I said, I do accept your reasoning as to why you were shifting votes around so much. My nitpicking of it isn't because I doubt your intention as much as it makes your conviction against franconp seem odd when it could just as easily be you sitting here with an exmachina vote.

I've already stated there's no chance you would be my primary focus to lynch even if Style wasn't a factor. In a world where I'm wrong about every read I have lynching a Town BlackBuzzard or Vanguard is a much smaller blow than lynching you if you're Town.

My suspicions of you have lessened. You've made good points in your favor. What I'm still not seeing is the good points against franconp. That's my concern in this discussion now.
 
H

Hyperactivity

Banned
Natiko said:
Like I said, I do accept your reasoning as to why you were shifting votes around so much. My nitpicking of it isn't because I doubt your intention as much as it makes your conviction against franconp seem odd when it could just as easily be you sitting here with an exmachina vote.

I've already stated there's no chance you would be my primary focus to lynch even if Style wasn't a factor. In a world where I'm wrong about every read I have lynching a Town BlackBuzzard or Vanguard is a much smaller blow than lynching you if you're Town.

My suspicions of you have lessened. You've made good points in your favor. What I'm still not seeing is the good points against franconp. That's my concern in this discussion now.
Click to expand...

Ok fine, I'll go find it, was gonna do that before I get distracted

As for the bolded, that's not the point.

The point isn't that a town franconp couldn't have found exmachina64 more suspicious and voted for him. That's not the situation we've been presented. Yes, I would have just as likely supported an exmachina64 lynch, but the situation we have is that I DIDN'T. And he DID. And the situation we have says that one side, even if he did so unwittingly, nearly saved a scum, while the other side didn't do so. That's the difference between me wanting to lynch exmachina64 and franconp ultimately voting for him when the end of the day came around
 
H

Hyperactivity

Banned
Natiko said:
Either your actions regarding who you're trying to place our focus on are because you're Town and genuinely think you're right and are trying to shut up weaker players like myself and some of the other newbies or you're scum trying to misdirect us. I'm perfectly willing to believe the former, but that requires more convincing. .
Click to expand...

I'd like you to believe me when I say I'd never try to stop the conversation occuring just because you were a "weaker player"

If I thought the conversation was focusing on the wrong or irrelevant players or topics, I'd probably try to push it in another direction regardless. And I may well just be pushing in another direction in parallel. But dammit the best thing about this game has been the number of active new members and I wouldn't try and ruin that
 
N

Natiko

Banned
Hyperactivity said:
Ok fine, I'll go find it, was gonna do that before I get distracted

As for the bolded, that's not the point.

The point isn't that a town franconp couldn't have found exmachina64 more suspicious and voted for him. That's not the situation we've been presented. Yes, I would have just as likely supported an exmachina64 lynch, but the situation we have is that I DIDN'T. And he DID. And the situation we have says that one side, even if he did so unwittingly, nearly saved a scum, while the other side didn't do so. That's the difference between me wanting to lynch exmachina64 and franconp ultimately voting for him when the end of the day came around
Click to expand...
I do agree it's not a great look. And I know that the situation we ended up with has him on the wrong side of the fence, not you. I was just showing that it easily could have been you on that side too. This argument isn't meant to clear franconp of suspicion, it's more to show why I don't think that alone is a good reason to target someone. It seems clear you do have more reasoning behind your thoughts though which was all I really wanted. Whether it's now or later on when this topic is broached you'll post it I'm sure.
 
N

Natiko

Banned
Hyperactivity said:
I'd like you to believe me when I say I'd never try to stop the conversation occuring just because you were a "weaker player"

If I thought the conversation was focusing on the wrong or irrelevant players or topics, I'd probably try to push it in another direction regardless. And I may well just be pushing in another direction in parallel. But dammit the best thing about this game has been the number of active new members and I wouldn't try and ruin that
Click to expand...
Sorry I didn't mean it quite as absolute as it sounded. Not shut up as in completely silence, more to push it off a topic or player you think is just innacurate.
 
E

exmachina64

Banned
Since StarSketch made that post, I would expect her to be killed by Shadows tonight if she's not one of them.

StarSketch said:
.....

>.>;

<.<;

I took some breaths and I'm less uh... volatile now.

I thought this was asking if me revealing fully would be detrimental. Have a feeling if I did Scum'd be more likely to target me.

I've had enough experiences where I've soft claimed and survived because of my playstyle being suspicious enough that scum leaves me alone.\


No one's probably going to believe me, but it is what it is at this point.
Click to expand...

Look, I understand. I didn't understand how online Mafia worked when I played the Star Wars game, someone said something and I made a sarcastic comment saying I was Mafia. They quickly lynched me and I was gone -- and I was the medic.

I really think you've hurt yourself between your accidental role reveal at the start of the game, your role claim and your suicide comment.
 
1

11037

Banned
Posting this now, just in case I can't do it tomorrow.

VOTE: Style

Surely I don't have to explain my reasoning for why, right?
 
F

franconp

Member
Hyperactivity said:
4/10 I redo day 1 and I have the tiebreaker I vote theexodu5

6/10 I redo day 1 and I have the tiebreaker I vote exmachina64

What national and franconp fail to understand is that this is entirely irrelevant when analyzing the vote yesterday. Unlike me and other townies, scum have the benefit of knowing theexodu5 is scum, and as such any deriving about what scum would do has to assume that they would be aware that one of their buddies who s in trouble

I'm not saying it was obvious that theexodu5 is scum, but I'm saying that those that chose wrong yesterday have to live and address the simple irrefutable fact that even if they are town, they nearly helped scum live.

This isn't really difficult to understand. Bringing up my own suspicion of exmachina64 or how obvious it was that theexodu5 was scum is entirely irrelevant, and useless to the conversation
Click to expand...

So I can't defend myself in any way. And you are making a big argument on only 1 vote. On day 1. When I flip town (and I WILL flip town) everyone should remember who lied and made really elaborated post full of nothing.

StarSketch said:
...Now hang on just a second.

You guys are jumping on someone who has hinted she has a power role.Yep, I'm clarifying it now.

I hope scum's happy.

Honestly, though, Town's probably better off without me so -shrug-
Click to expand...

Why????? There was no need to roleclaim yet. Style is our lynch this phase.
 
Y

YesNOnoNOYes

Member
CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

Style (4)
plop .997
exmachina64 .1160
FluxWaveZ .1259
11037 .1266

franconp (1)
Hyperactivity .1149

StarSketch (1)
flatearthpandas .1121


No active vote for Day 2:
BlackBuzzard
franconp
II-Vanguard-II
Matt Attack
Natiko
PK Gaming
StarSketch
Style
Verelios
WhereAreMahDragonz
Zippedpinhead



Day 2 ends:
blu_1480194000.png

Automated vote tally here

9 votes for majority
 
W

WhereAreMahDragonz

Banned
II-Vanguard-II said:
Care to elaborate?
Everyones seems to be getting scum vibes from me why do you think i'm null.
also would like to know why you think Verelios is scum.
Click to expand...

1. You haven't been in the thread enough for me to get a good read on you.

2. As with everyone else, I don't like his voting patterns. His reads feel safe (pot calling the kettle black, I know) and the fact that he had a vote on exmachina yesterday who I am getting a town read from, makes me suspicious of him. I also played with him when he was scum in Overwatch and he was picked as scum day one, and his play there feels very similar to his play here. There's something off about him as a whole. He's not really asking for the opinions of others, either. He's just...kind of coasting, it feels like.
 
M

Michael F. Assbender

Banned
flatearthpandas said:
This is part of the problem. This contentedness is not doing town any favors. Basically just checking out through the whole phase. Let's say Style does flip scum. The game isn't over. We still have to find a few more and we've wasted days of all of our time not really trying. If people aren't going to participate, I'd rather we just hammer style in now and let Thanksgiving holiday inactivity be scum's problem in the night phase. This is why scum killed sorian. It's possible he had some sick reads, but they killed him to kill town discussion.

But really, I'd like to continue scum hunting. If style flips town, I think we can expect either Star or fran to be scum. Which one do you think? (General question, obviously you, fran, would say star). I think star.

Further, I am also pretty sure we have scum in either plop or natico. Which one? Plop gives me slightly scummier vibes but it's just vibes. A little overeager to jump on early day lynch with no discussion. A little too much posthumous praise for sorian.

This is worse than d1 here. No one except style is feeling pressure and he numbed to it yesterday.
Click to expand...

I want to lynch Style because he acted against all of our best interests. Whether he's scum or not, he openly admitted to voting for the death of a town member. That deserves a lynch in my book. I was pretty shocked when coming back from the night phase to see we'd 1) lost two townspeople, and 2) lost Sorian.

Call it hero worship I guess, since I kind of glommed on to him from day one because I was looking for someone with obvious experience to kind of learn the ropes from (not that I was planning to follow his votes or anything, just that he was sharing a lot of info I found useful).

With time comes reflection. I still think it's best to lynch Style, at the very least to see what he flips and go from there (not to mention his free one shot kill can be very dangerous). At the same time, I'm currently eyeing Hyper, Star, and BlackBuzzard as my top scum suspects.

Star has just been too quiet, only popping up now and again to remind us she's alive. I've been quiet for part the second day, but I'm a family man and it's a holiday. You gotta do what you gotta do.

Buzzard I went into in depth when day two started.

Hyper has just been pushing too hard since day two started. It's not to say he's not making a few fair points about Fran (he's even got me moving Fran from "likely town" to "null"), but some of what he brings up is either totally inconsequential or, as Natiko (one of my current town reads) brings up, are things he could also be accused of doing (like his votes at the end of day one).

Matt Attack I'm still null on (somewhat leaning town...maybe?).

FEP is town. That vote he cast on Exodu5 that got the whole ball rolling has me convinced. I'm nowhere near good at this game, but he's either town or that was some next-level bussing to throw us off his scent.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
plop said:
And no, I'm not asking her to elaborate. If she insists it'd be harmful for town to do so, so be it.

But don't expect belief without evidence to back it up.
Click to expand...

But it sounds like you believe in Style's, despite there not being any actual evidence backing it up?
 
N

Natiko

Banned
This end of day and night phase could go really poorly for us if it pans out that everyone was telling the truth. We'll be lynching a Town PR and scum will likely get to kill another PR in Star. This would also mean that Style was telling the truth in that both he and Sorian were targeted to be killed (with Ty dying due to his investigation) so another one of us could die too. Having five Town die in two days with at least four of them having PRs would be pretty rough.

Luckily I still think Style is neutral. Though thinking on it I'm not sure why a neutral aligned role would have a protection power. That does make me think a bit more that he might just outright be scum.
 
V

Verelios

Member
WhereAreMahDragonz said:
1. You haven't been in the thread enough for me to get a good read on you.

2. As with everyone else, I don't like his voting patterns. His reads feel safe (pot calling the kettle black, I know) and the fact that he had a vote on exmachina yesterday who I am getting a town read from, makes me suspicious of him. I also played with him when he was scum in Overwatch and he was picked as scum day one, and his play there feels very similar to his play here. There's something off about him as a whole. He's not really asking for the opinions of others, either. He's just...kind of coasting, it feels like.
Click to expand...
Dragonz, I feel your scum buddies should be giving you more helpful(or true) advice, though that's just me.
 
M

Michael F. Assbender

Banned
FluxWaveZ said:
But it sounds like you believe in Style's, despite there not being any actual evidence backing it up?
Click to expand...

Not at all.

My stance at the end of day one was the same as most people. Spare him for the day just in case, see what happens at night, and go from there.

After the events of night one, his having a power role is meaningless because the outcome of day two should be the same no matter what.

If he's a PR townie, he acted against our interests and I think he should be lynched.

If he's a vanilla townie, he lied, which means he acted against the town's interests and I think he should be lynched.

If he's a neutral, PR or not, he's acting in his own interests and I think he should be lynched.

And if he's scum, he should be lynched.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
It is worth pointing out, though, that Style correctly pointed out the Power Role flavor of this game before it was openly revealed. He stated that he was of the "Sun Arcana" on D1. I wouldn't necessarily think that Tarot would have been the PR flavor, though I suppose it could have been guessed since this isn't a cosplay game.

Either a ballsy guess or he knew the PR flavor when he claimed. I'm leaning towards the latter.
 
N

Natiko

Banned
FluxWaveZ said:
It is worth pointing out, though, that Style correctly pointed out the Power Role flavor of this game before it was openly revealed. He stated that he was of the "Sun Arcana" on D1. I wouldn't necessarily think that Tarot would have been the PR flavor, though I suppose it could have been guessed since this isn't a cosplay game.

Either a ballsy guess or he knew the PR flavor when he claimed. I'm leaning towards the latter.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind though that from TheExodu5's role pm we can see that they get an arcana too. I wouldn't say that's a strong enough piece of evidence to place him as Town.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
Natiko said:
Keep in mind though that from TheExodu5's role pm we can see that they get an arcana too. I wouldn't say that's a strong enough piece of evidence to place him as Town.
Click to expand...

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that before there was any open indication that arcana were in effect at all (so before even the first lynch), Style correctly called out that his PR had to do with an arcana. This is not stated in the standard townie role PMs.

All this means is that Style likely had a correct idea that power roles had to do with arcana. Whether this means he's scum who was told as much by his scum buddies, or that he has one himself, we don't know.
 
N

Natiko

Banned
FluxWaveZ said:
It is worth pointing out, though, that Style correctly pointed out the Power Role flavor of this game before it was openly revealed. He stated that he was of the "Sun Arcana" on D1. I wouldn't necessarily think that Tarot would have been the PR flavor, though I suppose it could have been guessed since this isn't a cosplay game.

Either a ballsy guess or he knew the PR flavor when he claimed. I'm leaning towards the latter.
Click to expand...

FluxWaveZ said:
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that before there was any open indication that arcana were in effect at all (so before even the first lynch), Style correctly called out that his PR had to do with an arcana. This is not stated in the standard townie role PMs.

All this means is that Style likely had a correct idea that power roles had to do with arcana. Whether this means he's scum who was told as much by his scum buddies, or that he has one himself, we don't know.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I thought by the bolder line above that you meant he knew specifically about a Town PR flavor. I was just stating it could mean town, neutral, or scum still. I guess you were purely saying it to signify he probably does have some power regardless of alignment. I didn't mean that he read it from a revealed pm.
 
E

exmachina64

Banned
FluxWaveZ said:
That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that before there was any open indication that arcana were in effect at all (so before even the first lynch), Style correctly called out that his PR had to do with an arcana. This is not stated in the standard townie role PMs.

All this means is that Style likely had a correct idea that power roles had to do with arcana. Whether this means he's scum who was told as much by his scum buddies, or that he has one himself, we don't know.
Click to expand...

If you'll recall, Shadows have an Arcana listed in their role PMs. Exodu5, for example, had the Reverse Magician Arcana. If Style isn't neutral or a Persona user, he could have simply said what the inverse of his actual Arcana is, i.e. the Reverse Sun Arcana.

Going a bit deeper, the assignment of Arcanas may be matched to the player's role. Exodu5's Reverse Magician Arcana is generally interpreted as "a manipulator is floating around." If Style's Sun Arcana is truly upright, it's considered the most positive or best card in the deck. The Reverse Sun could indicate that he's competing with us, whether as a neutral with his own win condition or as part of the Shadows. In that situation, I'd lean toward neutral where he's competing with us. Perhaps he's a vigilante, serial killer or jester.
 
W

WhereAreMahDragonz

Banned
Verelios said:
Dragonz, I feel your scum buddies should be giving you more helpful(or true) advice, though that's just me.
Click to expand...

Natiko said:
I saw that and thought maybe there was an earlier cast vote I wasn't recalling. Not a great look WAMD.
Click to expand...

FluxWaveZ said:
We had just talked about Verelios' votes, too. Blatantly false reasoning from Dragonz.
Click to expand...

I've been hungover all day. I haven't been paying attention to the thread.
 
F

FluxWaveZ

Member
exmachina64 said:
If you'll recall, Shadows have an Arcana listed in their role PMs. Exodu5, for example, had the Reverse Magician Arcana. If Style isn't neutral or a Persona user, he could have simply said what the inverse of his actual Arcana is, i.e. the Reverse Sun Arcana.
Click to expand...

Certainly. I think my initial statement was being confused as some kind of indication that Style is town-aligned. I didn't mean that at all: I was simply saying he knew what the flavor was, before any of that was exposed. A Shadow would certainly be able to easily bluff a PR given their apparent "Reverse Arcana" status. Plus, they can communicate with one another to ascertain this.
 
E

exmachina64

Banned
FluxWaveZ said:
Certainly. I think my initial statement was being confused as some kind of indication that Style is town-aligned. I didn't mean that at all: I was simply saying he knew what the flavor was, before any of that was exposed. A Shadow would certainly be able to easily bluff a PR given their apparent "Reverse Arcana" status. Plus, they can communicate with one another to ascertain this.
Click to expand...

If we lynch Style, he's either a Shadow, a neutral character that may win, or a town-allied PR. If everything he's said to us is true, the Shadows will probably try to kill him every night to prevent him from killing one of them. So as long as he's not a Jester-type PR, we're not really losing anything by lynching him.

Like someone said at the beginning of Day 2: if everything he said is true, Style kind of shot himself in the foot by saving himself and not Sorian.
 
N

Natiko

Banned
How likely is it that there could be two neutral players? I still feel like Style might be neutral, but I almost wonder if the player that tried to kill him is also neutral. Or perhaps we have a Town PR that is able to kill (not fishing for a response here, no need for clarification). I just have a feeling scum would not have targeted Style night one knowing he is as good as dead the next day in all likelihood. I could see a neutral or Town player trying to kill him though given the chance. The other alternative is he's scum and he lied completely about his powers.
 
F

franconp

Member
Natiko said:
How likely is it that there could be two neutral players? I still feel like Style might be neutral, but I almost wonder if the player that tried to kill him is also neutral. Or perhaps we have a Town PR that is able to kill (not fishing for a response here, no need for clarification). I just have a feeling scum would not have targeted Style night one knowing he is as good as dead the next day in all likelihood. I could see a neutral or Town player trying to kill him though given the chance. The other alternative is he's scum and he lied completely about his powers.
Click to expand...

I don't think we have 2 neutrals. It's a 20 players game, we should have at least 4 mafia so if we have 2 neutrals that leaves 14 townies. Not so sure about that. If there are two night kills town could be in trouble pretty quick.
 
F

flatearthpandas

Member
Scum almost certainly targeted Sorian. I could see reasoning for other killing roles to target Style. But it is scums best interest to have a quiet game. They just lucked out having ty go as well. Maybe too lucky, really.

What I will say is that if we have a town vigilante who targeted Style and can confirm this power, you are fucking up allowing the lynch. Confirming and protecting town is a necessary part of the game. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who claims vig power or a n1 attack on Style after this day phase is a policy lynch. If you can confirm, confirm. That means you're both vig and the only reason neither of you have a useful shot yet is because we've waited this whole phase twiddling thumbs waiting to lynch a townie you could have confirmed this whole time.

I find it unlikely we have two of these roles though. I'd still expect a second kill to be SK. I think Style's claim fits with the powers we've seen.

If no one wants to confirm an attack on Style, it means to me that we can expect an SK or Style is scum. Hopefully the latter. But without confirmation, our best lynch.

Anyway,
Unvote
 
N

Natiko

Banned
That makes sense. I'm not familiar enough with how roles are usually divided up to be able to deduce stuff like that yet. Could it also be that whatever his role is allows him to protect himself but he lied and said he has a choice in order to try and pass himself off as Town when he's actually a neutral? Either way barring some huge revelation he'll be receiving my vote tomorrow.
 
H

Hyperactivity

Banned
Scum gets fake claims

Please don't be convinced by style just having flavor knowledge...

I don't see style being left to live helping us in any way. I for one think he's scum, and two don't see him NOT coming up every day after this if he's allowed to live
 
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