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Is Japanese gaming back on form?

S

shark sandwich

tenuously links anime, pedophile and incels
Blackleg-sanji1 said:
They just made a critically and commerically acclaimed FF three months ago.

And here we go...
Click to expand...
...after over 10 years in development hell.

Regardless what you think of their quality, FF 12-15 have all been massive clusterfucks in their development. Huge multi-year delays, constant engine troubles, omitted content, and in 14's case, so bad they had to take it offline and remake the game from scratch.

That is like the worst series to use as proof that Japan still has their shit together. We are seriously lucky that FF still exists as a AAA franchise. It's a miracle.
 
J

JeremyEtcetera

Unconfirmed Member
Kodiak said:
I personally disagree that Japanese games never left. They used to be the flagship games of the PS1 / N64 / PS2 era, but the developers never adapted properly to the first round of HD consoles. They really struggled with building engines for 360 / PS3, and basically ignored PC altogether.

And the whole "they moved to handheld" thing is true to a certain extent, but I think it's fair to say that it wasn't a golden age like the SNES or PS1 era.

So yeah, with engines like Unreal 4 seeing a lot of adoption in Japan, they have a solid entry point for making PS4 / PC titles. We are definitely seeing a comeback of truly exciting Japanese games rather than, "decent handheld game with PS2-era graphics"
Click to expand...

I agree with this post. If golden age was SNES/PS1 era or even PS2/DC era then the beginning of HD era(PS3/360) was the dark ages.
 
A

Aztechnology

Member
I think they're "back on form" because they've vastly expanded their market outside of Japan. Especially in terms of platforms where they offer their software.
 
C

CloakBass

Member
The sheer output from JP studios will probably never match the NES-PS2 eras, but the larger publishers/developers are beginning to pick up some momentum again. I don't really see a return to those salad days with the cost of AAA development - just think how long it took some of the games being mentioned here to actually be released.
 
N

Nuu

Banned
HStallion said:
Who gives a shit what a game genre is called? You seem to be nit picking the most pointless things and nit picking names of genres like that is the end all and be all.
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Because he is cherry picking titles and shoehorning them into their own "genres" in order to prpve his point.

Metal Gear Solid isn't a genre, it is a game series. Stealth is a genre, one that accompanies multiple titles such as Splinter Cell and Mark of the Ninja.

It's equivalent of someone trying to argue that the PC lacks Japanese development support and gives the example how it lacks in the "Marvel vs Capcom genre", when in reality that is a game part of the fighting genre in which the PC does well in.

The other thing he did is that he listed games like Dark Souls which is, while arguable could be it's own genre, is basically confined to a single game series. It would be like if I argued with the OP that Japanese developers weren't "back" on consoles due to them lacking in the Pokemon genre. It's irrelevant because there aren't really enough similar games to the title to make that statement relevant.
 
Y

yyr

Member
I agree with many of the folks here.

Just because western IPs got more recognition or were more favored for a while doesn't mean Japanese games were ever bad, or "off form."

The only time I think Japanese games get bad is when they try too hard to imitate the Western style. They should stick to what they're good at. When they do, they don't disappoint. (A bit of a Western influence can be good also, but it shouldn't be their focus.)
 
P

PeakPointMatrix

Member
Catching up on Gravity Rush 1 so I can play 2.

Still playing FFXV. (loved it so much I bough the season pass, so Episode Prompto, Ignis and Gladio still to come)

Playing through RE7.

Neir Automata, Yakuza 0, and Ni-oh still coming.

Sonic 2017, Knack 2, Zelda, Mario Odyssey on the way too.

Help.
 
Humdinger

Humdinger

Member
Dragun619 said:
KHWe2dz.png
Click to expand...

Impressive!

I hope they sell well. That seems to be the sticking point, with a lot of these games. They just don't attract the attention that the usual AAA Western releases do. Fortunately, they have smaller budgets and so need fewer sales to justify themselves.

Vigilant Walrus said:
I disagree that this isn't something special. Look at the latest release of of high profile japanese games compared to output of the last 2-3 years:

- FFXV and The Last Guardian is released and ends up not being disasterous, despite having disasterous Duke-Nukem-Forever-Decade-Long-Hell-Cycles.

- Team Ninja makes their first truly good game in more than a decade.

- Best Yakuza is released, and has more good will and attention than all previous entries combined.

- FFXIV continues its strides

- Resident Evil 4 is return to form for a series that has lost its way for more than a decade. Not only was it return to form, it went to new places.

- Tales of Berseria is miles better than the any tales game for more than a decade.

- Gravity Rush 2

- Nier Automa creates incredible hype and interest. Seems really promising.


This level of output in the last few months is highly unusual. I feel there has been more slam dunks in these past months, than for quite a few years prior
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Agree. I think the 6 month period from Oct to April is astonishing, in terms of the number of good Japanese games coming out. Lists of Japanese games sometimes seem padded to me, half-populated with extremely low-profile, obscure releases. But this is a serious list, filled with solid games getting good press and traction.

As someone who's grown increasingly bored with most AAA mainstream Western games, I am happy about this.
 
N

nbnt

is responsible for the well-being of this island.
RE7 is good and GR2 is fantastic, I've yet to play Yakuza 0 but I will soon and I'm sure it's great, and Nier is my most anticipated game of the year. There's never been a better time to be playing Japanese video games. 👌
Dragun619 said:
It's lit.
KHWe2dz.png
Click to expand...
🔥 🔥 🔥
 
ReyVGM

ReyVGM

Member
Mung said:
Whilst the domestic market remains weak, it seems as though Japanese devs have been killing it recently, and the line up early this year looks insane - Ni-Oh, RE7, Persona 5, Zelda, Yakuza 0, NieR Automata to name a few.

What do you guys think? It seems that after a long struggle with the move to HD, Japanese devs have finally found their mojo.
Click to expand...

In my eyes, their form never went away. I still kept primarily playing Japanese games (mostly from Nintendo).
 
FingerBang

FingerBang

Member
Yes, it's back. All this big companies are finally seeing why they were struggling to catch up with western developers. I have the feeling gamers are taking the power back from the old salary men who only care about profit (instead of focusing on crafting good products).

Japan's mentality is still 5-10 years behind compared to the west (IMHO), but it's getting there.

But I wouldn't put Yakuza 0 in this trend of new games. Yakuza 6 has been out for two months in Japan.
 
T

TheDinoman

Member
I expect Breath of the Wild's MC score to be around 94. That's how well a lot of recent Zelda games have done.

However...I'd like to be surprised and see it make it to around 97 or 98. That would put the game around the same level of Super Mario Galaxy and Ocarina of Time. :O
 
C

chromatic9

Member
Capcom deserve some respect. They've beaten all the other big devs and delivered a full AAA VR game and to boot it's expertly crafted return of the franchise. All the talk of Japanese devs failing and I don't see shit from the west on VR.
 
R

RedSwirl

Junior Member
They're back on home consoles... about as much as they can be.

Japanese game development never entirely "left" during the PS3/360 years, it just refocused on handhelds. Over the last couple years maybe we've seen more "big" quality Japanese releases on home consoles. That said, we're never going back to the Nintendo and PlayStation eras where Japanese developers were putting out THE flagship games of the console space.

Today, western releases regularly do numbers beyond most of the biggest Japanese games from back in the day. The biggest Japanese games today like a new numbered Final Fantasy can only hope to do around the same numbers as a new Far Cry game or something, and t here are over half a dozen releases that size every year. You're also probably not going to see medium-to-large-budget Japanese console games in the same numbers as 12-15 years ago.
 
S

StrongBlackVine

Banned
gfxtwin said:
Mainly just wondering what will happen to current Konami franchises and the previous classics... Also RE7 didn't sell as well as capcom hoped at all, not sure how that will effect the series. IMO they also need to do something with Onimusha, Viewtiful Joe, Okami, etc.
Click to expand...

This is not true.
 
FingerBang

FingerBang

Member
TheDinoman said:
I expect Breath of the Wild's MC score to be around 94. That's how well a lot of recent Zelda games have done.

However...I'd like to be surprised and see it make it to around 97 or 98. That would put the game around the same level of Super Mario Galaxy and Ocarina of Time. :O
Click to expand...

This.

This is how you set yourself up for disappointment. :D

Honestly, it's the first Zelda game I buy on day one since Wind Waker (and will probably be the only one I finish after WW), I am sure it's going to be awesome, but nothing makes me think it will set new standards.
 
C

CertifiedFP

Member
antibolo said:
Meanwhile Microsoft cancelled the only Japanese game they had in development. Good job Microsoft!
Click to expand...

And the return of Valkyria turned out to be a Sent-Out-To-Die cashgrab from the accounts given in the import OT :(

Fingers crossed that the way Azure Revolution turned out was due to intentional budget cuts in favor of funding a proper VC game (Ala Enemy Unknown finally getting proper funding from 2K after the XCOM 2010 backlash) rather than Media.Vision rapidly going the way of Tri-Ace. Assuming the "Senjo RPG Remake for PS4" is a remake of VC3 (IE, Senjo no Valkyria 3) or something.
 
D

Drillary Clinton

Banned
Absolutely. GR2 was phenomenal. I'm enjoying the hell out of Yakuza rn. TLG was great and FFXV was very good. I'm sure Nioh is going to be good and it and RE7 have glowing reviews.
 
1

1st Course

Member
I think the "Japanese games decline" has more to do with sales/market share than quality?

Even last gen Japanese devs never stopped making quality games.
 
M

Mung

Member
I'm not saying that Japan stopped making quality games. I just don't think they were quite as high standard as before outside the handheld (and Nintendo) space. And certainly less frequent.
 
JayBabay

JayBabay

Member
FFXV and Last Guardian were only a couple months back, lets not forget to add those to the recent bombardment.
 
C

Cerium

Member
RedSwirl said:
That said, we're never going back to the Nintendo and PlayStation eras where Japanese developers were putting out THE flagship games of the console space.
Click to expand...

While Sony has clearly shifted emphasis to its western studios, Nintendo remains focused on its core internal teams which are almost all based in Japan. The only notable exception I can think of is Retro Studios.

Look at how they're leaning on Zelda for launch, and that was developed in five years (lightning quick for a Japanese open world game).
 
T

TheDinoman

Member
Omeganex9999 said:
This.

This is how you set yourself up for disappointment. :D

Honestly, it's the first Zelda game I buy on day one since Wind Waker (and will probably be the only one I finish after WW), I am sure it's going to be awesome, but nothing makes me think it will set new standards.
Click to expand...

Keywords: "I'd like to be surprised."

I already said I'm expecting the MC score to be realistically around 94.
 
C

Cloukyo

Banned
Mung said:
Whilst the domestic market remains weak, it seems as though Japanese devs have been killing it recently, and the line up early this year looks insane - Ni-Oh, RE7, Persona 5, Zelda, Yakuza 0, NieR Automata to name a few.

What do you guys think? It seems that after a long struggle with the move to HD, Japanese devs have finally found their mojo.
Click to expand...

They're back further into the mainstream, but they've always been on the forefront of quality, inventiveness, and focus on fun/gameplay. It just seems like for the last few years inventiveness isn't what the west wanted, rather, a plethora of "cinematic experience" games that focused on realistic designs and the like.

Also fewer Japanese games have massive AAA budgets, so they can't advertise their butts off american games can.
 
C

Cloukyo

Banned
Vigilant Walrus said:
I disagree that this isn't something special. Look at the latest release of of high profile japanese games compared to output of the last 2-3 years:

- FFXV and The Last Guardian is released and ends up not being disasterous, despite having disasterous Duke-Nukem-Forever-Decade-Long-Hell-Cycles.

- Team Ninja makes their first truly good game in more than a decade.

- Best Yakuza is released, and has more good will and attention than all previous entries combined.

- FFXIV continues its strides

- Resident Evil 4 is return to form for a series that has lost its way for more than a decade. Not only was it return to form, it went to new places.

- Tales of Berseria is miles better than the any tales game for more than a decade.

- Gravity Rush 2

- Niet Automa creates incredible hype and interest. Seems really promising.
Click to expand...

Yakuza 0 - Just because this is the best doesn't mean the others were bad, they've been continually releasing good games.

FFXIV - Has been good for years. Definitely not a recent thing.

Resident Evil 7 - I'll give you this, but horror in general has fallen off the wayside. That said, there haven't been ANY good american horror games, at least the most recent Fatal Fury was decent. Not bad buy any means.

Tales of Besteria - But plenty of enjoyable jrpgs have been made from other developers in the last few years. The Kiseki games are incredible.

Gravity Rush - What about it?

Nier Automata - Yes? The other games were good too if you're into Taro's writing and the music. If it's the combat you're enjoying we got Bayonetta 1 and 2, arguably the best action games of all time.


But do you see a pattern here? Very few of the games I'm mentioning were acknowledged or sold very well in the west. They either didn't get demos, didn't get ads, or were overshadowed by other western IPs.


Edit: Damn, accidental double post
 
PaulBizkit

PaulBizkit

Member
Lion Heart said:
I believe so, and it makes gaming so much more interesting. Last gen was a struggle, so while they are killing it now, it should get only better here on out. Love it!
Click to expand...

Last gen was a drag because shooters and wrpg were the big thing... Call Of Duty taking over, FF13 flopping, HD gaming being so expensive and the rise of mobile led to a very complicated era in japanese gaming.


We still need Hironobu Sakaguchi to make real games again.
 
K

Kill3r7

Member
Maybe. I think we have hit a rich vein of quality releases right now. Let's see if they can sustain it and most importantly let's see if folks in the West support/buy them.
 
G

GenG3000

Member
Japan has always been good. This is just a matter or perception.

Seeing Yakuza 0 listed as a big hitter is quite ironic considering nobody gave a damn for the great localized games it's had in the past. As I said, perception.
 
C

Cloukyo

Banned
JustSomeone said:
I wasn't aware classifying games by their country of origin is a thing.
Click to expand...

Different developers and cultures have different approaches to their products, there's a fairly clear line between the type of approach japanese games (and tv shows, animation, books, food etc.) have to their western counterparts.

Compare guilty gear and tekken, with their crazy characters and goofy plots to mortal Kombat and KI
Compare Final Fantasy to Dragon Age and Witcher
Compare Splatoon to Call of Duty and Halo
Compare Zelda to Horizon (I guess)
Compare Nier to... no equivalent
Compare Resident Evil to... no equivalent
Compare Mario Kart to... no equivalent
Compare Smash Brothers to... no equivalent (we will pretend Playstation All-Stars didn't exist)
Compare Steins Gate to... no equivalent
Compare Persona to...no equivalent
Compare Bayonetta to...no equivalent
Compare Zero escape to...no equivalent
Compare Ace Attorney to...no equivalent
Compare Dancing all Night to... no equivalent
Compare Pokemon to... no equivalent

...

There also happens to be a variety of games in japanese games that aren't prevalent in western games (not to say american games don't have variety, just that japanese games have plenty of types of games that the west havent even touched).

So yeah, it's not that unfair to say that developers from the two different regions create very different games.
 
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