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Japan scrambles F-15s as Chinese plane enters disputed islands' airspace

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numble

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A new development. Probably just an escalation of the boat patrols, since it is with an unarmed plane. But it continues to increase the risk of greater conflict, even if unintended--the spy plane incident of 2001 brought a lot of unintended conflict due to an accident.

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2012/12/199078.html

A Chinese airplane entered Japanese air space over the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea on Thursday, the top Japanese government spokesman said.

The Air Self-Defense Force scrambled F-15 jets after the Chinese Oceanic Administration airplane was spotted near Uotsuri Island at 11:06 a.m., Chief Cabinet Secretary Osamu Fujimura told reporters.


Japan Answers Chinese Plane With Fighter Jets
By YUKA HAYASHI
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323981504578176681539995800.html

TOKYO—Japan scrambled fighter jets over contested islands in the East China Sea after a small Chinese propeller plane entered what Tokyo considers its airspace.

Coming just three days before general elections in Japan, Thursday's move sharply escalates territorial tensions that have already damaged economic relations between the two neighbors.

The Japanese government said that eight F-15 fighter planes from the Air Self-Defense Force were dispatched to airspace over the islands after coast-guard patrol vessels confirmed the presence of a single Chinese aircraft 15 kilometers south of the island Uotsuri Jima. That's the biggest of the contested chain, known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China.

A defense ministry spokesman said that this is the first time ever that a Chinese aircraft has intruded into any Japanese airspace.


Prior to this, Chinese ships entering the area has become such a common occurrence (after Japanese announced nationalization of some of the islands) that international news outlets don't really report on it anymore.

Examples:

Dec. 12
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2012/12/199040.html
4 Chinese ships sail into Japan's territorial waters around Senkakus

Four Chinese maritime surveillance vessels entered Japanese territorial waters Thursday morning around the disputed Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea, the Japan Coast Guard said.

Chinese ships sailed in the area near the Japan-administered chain of islets claimed by China for the third day in a row and for the 17th time after the purchase of three of the islets by the Japanese government in September.
Dec. 11
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2012/12/198631.html
Chinese ships sail again in Japan's territorial waters near Senkakus
NAHA, Japan, Dec. 11, Kyodo

The Japan Coast Guard confirmed Tuesday that two Chinese maritime surveillance vessels entered Japanese territorial waters around the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea, with the Japanese government lodging a protest with the Chinese side.

It is the 15th time Chinese government ships have entered the waters since the Japanese government purchased three of the Japanese-administered islands, which are claimed by China, from a private owner in September.

More common for sailings to be in contiguous zone (outside territorial zone). I think they stopped counting after a month.
Nov. 19
http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2012/11/194749.html
Chinese vessels sail near Senkakus for 31st day

Chinese surveillance vessels sailed Monday in an area just outside Japanese territorial waters around the Senkaku Islands in the East China Sea for the 31st consecutive day, the Japan Coast Guard said.

Since the nationalization plan, China launched and tested its aircraft carrier, and has launched its largest surveillance ship to date:
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/11/25/world/asia/china-aircraft-carrier-landing/index.html
China announced Sunday that it had landed a fighter jet on the deck of an aircraft carrier for the first time, but it may be years before the ship is fully operational.
China's "first generation multi-purpose carrier-borne fighter jet," known as the J-15, successfully completed its first landing on the Liaoning, an aircraft carrier China built using an abandoned Soviet hull, according to China's official news agency Xinhua.
The J-15's capabilities are comparable to the Russian Su-33 jet and the U.S. F-18, Xinhua reported. The Chinese-designed jet can "carry multi-type anti-ship, air-to-air and air-to-ground missiles, as well as precision-guided bombs, the report said.

http://www.china.org.cn/china/2012-12/12/content_27384812.htm
China's largest fishery patrol ship, the Yuzheng 206, started its maiden voyage from Shanghai to patrol waters near the Diaoyu Islands on Tuesday, according to the Regional Bureau of East China Sea Fishery Management of the Ministry of Agriculture.
 
This is going to sound really retarded but I thought that Japan didn't have a military and was instead protected by the U.S. same with germany and italy. I thought it had something to do with the old WW2 axis.
 

Forever

Banned
This is going to sound really retarded but I thought that Japan didn't have a military and was instead protected by the U.S. same with germany and italy. I thought it had something to do with the old WW2 axis.

They have a "Self-Defense Force" with no projection capabilities. It's actually one of the largest air forces and navies in the world.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Smh, well this saber rattling will affect me more when I'm over there next year. Yay!...uh I guess.

Unless you are military, I doubt it will effect you much lol

Though with that post of yours am guessing you are.

They have a "Self-Defense Force" with no projection capabilities. It's actually one of the largest air forces and navies in the world.

The tanks they got are pretty badass too. MHI built
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Nah, I'm not military, just the brewhahaha of that stuff is annoying. And I'm moving to Japan.

Its not going to effect you one bit unless they try a ground invasion or start launching rockets / missiles over here.

Trust me you will forget most of this shit even happens unless you bother to watch the useless news chans here lol
 
Its not going to effect you one bit unless they try a ground invasion or start launching rockets / missiles over here.

Trust me you will forget most of this shit even happens unless you bother to watch the useless news chans here lol

You live in Japan? Man that's awesome?
I know this question is weird and all but where you born in Japan, or are you from somewhere else like the US living in Japan?
 

numble

Member
Related, Taiwan was very close to sending special forces to the islands in 1990, risking lives of soldiers... to destroy a lighthouse.

http://ajw.asahi.com/article/special/isles_dispute/AJ201212050086

...

Sometime in October 1990, 45 brigade members in their early 20s were assembled to form a special attack unit. No specific date remains for when the unit was formed because it was forbidden to keep records of the operation.

The unit's mission was to land on Uotsurishima, the largest of the Senkaku Islands, which Taiwan refers to as Diaoyutai. After destroying the lighthouse on the island, the unit was to raise Taiwan's flag.

Called "Exercise Han Chiang," it was far more than just a military operation. The mission had heavy political overtones. Han Chiang means land of the Chinese people.

The Longtan base is situated 200 kilometers from Uotsurishima. Because the helicopters to be used in the operation had a maximum flight distance of 435 kilometers, the plan was to drop the elite unit on the island and fly immediately back to Taiwan. Due to weight restrictions, each soldier was allowed only a minimum arsenal of weapons--a small automatic firearm, four hand grenades and a shoulder-mounted rocket launcher.

At the same time, military personnel who could speak Japanese were to be brought along in the event the unit met up with Self-Defense Forces members or Japan Coast Guard personnel.

Only single men with brothers were selected for the special attack unit. Another condition was that members were not expected to be discharged in the near future.

The members were banned from all contact with their families or girlfriends. One member actually got dumped by his girlfriend as a result.

Training focused on strengthening leg muscles. The members repeatedly practiced jumping. The helicopters were to hover about 3 meters over Uotsurishima, and all six to seven members in each craft were supposed to exit the craft within three seconds.

The last few days of training involved repeated practice in boarding the helicopters. The unit members were still in training mode early Nov. 5, 1990, when they boarded helicopters and flew out into thick fog. When they returned to the base, the brigade commander summoned the unit and told the members: "The mission is over. We will collect all of the equipment. I want all of you to sign documents promising confidentiality."

At that time, Taiwan was in the grip of anti-Japan sentiment over ownership of the islands. Similar sentiment flared in the early 1970s when the administration of the Senkakus was handed over from the United States to Japan in connection with the return of Okinawa.

Fierce resistance arose in Taiwan as rumors spread that the Japanese government was planning to approve the lighthouse on Uotsurishima as an official navigational signal.

Support swelled for the opposition Democratic Progressive Party, which demanded the Kuomintang government dispatch the military to the Senkakus.

...
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
You live in Japan? Man that's awesome?
I know this question is weird and all but where you born in Japan, or are you from somewhere else like the US living in Japan?

Was Japanese by birth, am American now. Grew up in the US.

Its not as awesome as all those on the outside looking in think. Its just another country and expensive one at that with large cities. Personally I prefer to spend my time in the countryside, which I do on occasions for a couple of months depending on schedule. Am sure others think differently than me, but Im more one of those who have the mentality "dont ask me, I just live here" lol
 

antonz

Member
Split the fucking oil or something goddamn.

Screw that. Have you seen the region on the map that China is trying to claim is theirs? Its so large it would be like the US claiming waters around South America as our own. We should sell the Enterprise to Japan
 

numble

Member
Screw that. Have you seen the region on the map that China is trying to claim is theirs? Its so large it would be like the US claiming waters around South America as our own

This claim is separate from the South China Sea claims.
sRy93.png
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Nuke the damn island. No one can have it now.

Some old lady actually said that when asked about the situation with the islands. Hilarious. Not nuke, more like just blow it the fuck up so nobody can have it.

A buddy of mine whos a journalist said the following, (not an exact quote) "I wonder what would happen if I hoisted the french flag on there"
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
F-15s? LOL!

C'mon Japan!

These are not retrofitted ones bought from the US. Unlike what usually gets sold off to other TWCs MHI builds them brand new. A lot of the tech / weapons used in Japan for the most part are all licensed from somewhere and then built within the country to help keep all as much of "weapon related tech" internal with the country. Less worry about things going missing in shipments and winding up in the wrong place. Though in general not too much other detailed info out there bout all this stuff as Japan in general is pretty quiet about it. I recall folks freaked out over the production of a miniature carrier that got built. Well more like destroyer with heli pads on it.

5476422967_d466a66417_z.jpg

Good use for disaster relief though seeing how much helicopters are put to use in Japan when it comes to floods / bad earthquakes. Also shown how important it is having a ship as a refueling station to carry out such missions as with the cooperation with the US went in the rescue / resupply efforts during operation tomodachi. Folks see things like that and just assume it will be use for offensive operations.

This news explains all the air traffic Ive been seeing today over the town. Since its unusual to see Japanese fighters flying around for the most part.
 
Was Japanese by birth, am American now. Grew up in the US.

Its not as awesome as all those on the outside looking in think. Its just another country and expensive one at that with large cities. Personally I prefer to spend my time in the countryside, which I do on occasions for a couple of months depending on schedule. Am sure others think differently than me, but Im more one of those who have the mentality "dont ask me, I just live here" lol

It's true, from an outsiders point of view, Japan seems like a crazy fun place. Of course, if I actually lived there, I would probably have the same thoughts as you do.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
It's true, from an outsiders point of view, Japan seems like a crazy fun place. Of course, if I actually lived there, I would probably have the same thoughts as you do.

Generally I suppose its what you make of your own experience in the country. Im amused by things enough as is and dont go out of my way to further that.
 
I believe the "defense force" is something like the 2nd or 3rd biggest navy in the world (too lazy to source). Japan actually has a rather strong military.
 

jerry113

Banned
This is going to sound really retarded but I thought that Japan didn't have a military and was instead protected by the U.S. same with germany and italy. I thought it had something to do with the old WW2 axis.

Their "not-a-military" could still probably kick most other military's asses in a fight in their neighborhood.
 

Skunkers

Member
F-15s? LOL!

C'mon Japan!

Not seeing anything funny about that. The F-15 is still easily one of the best air superiority fighters in the world. In fact I think none of them have ever been shot down by an opposing force fighter. Outside of maybe the Eurofighter Typhoon and the not yet combat-ready 5th gen fighters, it could still be the best.

Unless you meant why not launch their mecha or something lol.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Wait, this shit still happening? I thought they settled on something already. 8(

I settle on having godzilla stomp that shit back into the sea.

Dont think there is going to be any sort of conclusion short of the islands mysteriously exploding so no one gets it.
 

numble

Member
Bahcv.jpg
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One gets the feeling that China wants Shinzo Abe to win for some reason.

Japan Answers Chinese Plane With Fighter Jets
By YUKA HAYASHI
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323981504578176681539995800.html

TOKYO—Japan scrambled fighter jets over contested islands in the East China Sea after a small Chinese propeller plane entered what Tokyo considers its airspace.

Coming just three days before general elections in Japan, Thursday's move sharply escalates territorial tensions that have already damaged economic relations between the two neighbors.

The Japanese government said that eight F-15 fighter planes from the Air Self-Defense Force were dispatched to airspace over the islands after coast-guard patrol vessels confirmed the presence of a single Chinese aircraft 15 kilometers south of the island Uotsuri Jima. That's the biggest of the contested chain, known as Senkaku in Japan and Diaoyu in China.

A defense ministry spokesman said that this is the first time ever that a Chinese aircraft has intruded into any Japanese airspace.

The latest phase of the territorial standoff began in September, when the Japanese government purchased three of the islands from a private owner. Beijing has long contested Japan's claim to the uninhabited islands, and in recent weeks has repeatedly sent patrol ships into the territorial waters around them, setting off cat-and-mouse chases with Japanese coast guard-vessels. Both sides have prevented escalation by keeping their naval ships away, relying on civilian boats to patrol the area.

The Chinese plane sighted Thursday was not a military aircraft, a photo released by the Japanese Coast Guard shows. It was marked "State Oceanic Administration"—one of the Chinese maritime agencies that have been sending patrol ships to the disputed waters.

Warned by a Japanese patrol ship not to enter Japan's air space, the Chinese aircraft responded, "This is Chinese airspace," according to the Japanese Coast Guard.


Prime Minister Yoshihiko Noda said Tokyo has lodged a complaint with the Chinese government and will further step up surveillance of the area of dispute.

"We will respond decisively to this violation of sovereignty," he told reporters, according to Kyodo News.

The airspace incursion could heighten the dispute: International law forbids entering another nation's airspace without permission and gives countries the right to expel unauthorized aircraft with force immediately. In contrast, foreign ships are able sail through a nation's territorial waters as long as it is considered "innocent passage."

The incident also puts further pressure on Mr. Noda, whose ruling Democratic Party of Japan is likely to face a decisive defeat in Sunday's elections, according to various national polls. Shinzo Abe, who's likely to take his job away, has criticized Mr. Noda for his handling of the territorial issues, and called for a confrontational approach focused on the use of "physical power," rather than diplomacy.

—Eleanor Warnock contributed to this article.
 

CiSTM

Banned
Unless you are military, I doubt it will effect you much lol

Though with that post of yours am guessing you are.

Not true. All this saber rattling with China is life elixir for Japan Restoration party (Japanese tea party :b) and other nationalistic nuts. This does have effect on everybody living in Japan. General elections are held this week and this just more fuel for nationalistic nuts and voters who are fed up with the other big parties.

It's a scary idea that Shintaro Ishihara could be the next PM of Japan some day :D He has stated gems like "Roppongi is now virtually a foreign neighborhood. Africans — I don't mean African-Americans — who don't speak English are there doing who knows what. This is leading to new forms of crime such as car theft. We should be letting in people who are intelligent."
 
I recall folks freaked out over the production of a miniature carrier that got built. Well more like destroyer with heli pads on it.

5476422967_d466a66417_z.jpg

Good use for disaster relief though seeing how much helicopters are put to use in Japan when it comes to floods / bad earthquakes. Also shown how important it is having a ship as a refueling station to carry out such missions as with the cooperation with the US went in the rescue / resupply efforts during operation tomodachi. Folks see things like that and just assume it will be use for offensive operations.
That's not even classified as a carrier, you're right, it's called a helicopter destroyer. It's less effective as a regular destroyer at carrying out offensive operations, unless you outfit it with Harriers of F-35s.

The American equivalent (if you can even call it that) are far deadlier. They can carry up to 42 seakings, or 20 VTOL fighters as well as 1900 marines.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
Not true. All this saber rattling with China is life elixir for Japan Restoration party (Japanese tea party :b) and other nationalistic nuts. This does have effect on everybody living in Japan. General elections are held this week and this just more fuel for nationalistic nuts and voters who are fed up with the other big parties.

It's a scary idea that Shintaro Ishihara could be the next PM of Japan some day :D He has stated gems like "Roppongi is now virtually a foreign neighborhood. Africans — I don't mean African-Americans — who don't speak English are there doing who knows what. This is leading to new forms of crime such as car theft. We should be letting in people who are intelligent."

Unless you are one that follows politics or has a job that you have to deal with others who are, in general the public doesnt give a shit. Japan isnt the west where everyone is obsessed with talking politics. People for the most part dont really discuss in such things outside of the company and would rather talk more "fun" things than topics like that.

As mentioned it still doesnt matter for the most part. Country always has and always will be its own little basket case under a blanket. Unless you go digging you wont really notice anything. This country does not change drastically and just because some "nationalistic nut" might take over does not mean that things will suddenly switch making it any sort of "problem" which would be considered something a legitimate working foreign national should worry about. Its not how it works here. Never has and most likely never will. Thats the problem with the country itself and why its slowly strangling itself to death.

Seriously focus on whats around you and directly related to you. Sides for those who are non citizen of the country its not like you even have a say in things here anyways. Which also goes for myself who is not a Japanese citizen.

I hope they dont start a war over this.

Japan doesnt have the balls to really do anything and China isnt dumb enough to press any harder on a US ally that has multiple active bases in country as if a conflict starts there goes a huge source of revenue for them with all of the factory / manufacturing contracts they have. So yeah as said this most likely will continue to go nowhere short of blowing the islands the fuck up by some third party maniac with the means to do so. (which of course as we all know wont happen either)

That's not even classified as a carrier, you're right, it's called a helicopter destroyer. It's less effective as a regular destroyer at carrying out offensive operations, unless you outfit it with Harriers of F-35s.

The American equivalent (if you can even call it that) are far deadlier. They can carry up to 42 seakings, or 20 VTOL fighters as well as 1900 marines.

Yeah I know its not classified as a carrier I really should have used " " around miniature carrier. But all the idiots in the media were freaking out and calling it one just because of the look / flat deck. then started putting all sorts of idiotic speculation about it and what dubious purpose it would serve in the region.
 
That's not even classified as a carrier, you're right, it's called a helicopter destroyer. It's less effective as a regular destroyer at carrying out offensive operations, unless you outfit it with Harriers of F-35s.

The American equivalent (if you can even call it that) are far deadlier. They can carry up to 42 seakings, or 20 VTOL fighters as well as 1900 marines.

what?

Yeah I know its not classified as a carrier I really should have used " " around miniature carrier. But all the idiots in the media were freaking out and calling it one just because of the look / flat deck. then started putting all sorts of idiotic speculation about it and what dubious purpose it would serve in the region.

Its a Helicopter CARRIER, as in a carrier but for helicopters. They avoid classifying it as an helicopter carrier because of political reasons so they name it a destroyer, almost every JMSDF ship have some form of destroyer in their name. Btw Japan is already building the 22DDH and that is a lot bigger than the Hyuga class but they will still call it a helicopter destroyer.
 

Parakeetman

No one wants a throne you've been sitting on!
what?



Its a Helicopter CARRIER, as in a carrier but for helicopters. They avoid classifying it as an helicopter carrier because of political reasons so they name it a destroyer, almost every JMSDF ship have some form of destroyer in their name. Btw Japan is already building the 22DDH and that is a lot bigger than the Hyuga class but they will still call it a helicopter destroyer.

E6AF94E8BC83.jpg


Interesting photoshop but done to show size difference.

22ddh2.jpg
 

CiSTM

Banned
Unless you are one that follows politics or has a job that you have to deal with others who are, in general the public doesnt give a shit. Japan isnt the west where everyone is obsessed with talking politics. People for the most part dont really discuss in such things outside of the company and would rather talk more "fun" things than topics like that.

As mentioned it still doesnt matter for the most part. Country always has and always will be its own little basket case under a blanket. Unless you go digging you wont really notice anything. This country does not change drastically and just because some "nationalistic nut" might take over does not mean that things will suddenly switch making it any sort of "problem" which would be considered something a legitimate working foreign national should worry about. Its not how it works here. Never has and most likely never will. Thats the problem with the country itself and why its slowly strangling itself to death.

Seriously focus on whats around you and directly related to you. Sides for those who are non citizen of the country its not like you even have a say in things here anyways. Which also goes for myself who is not a Japanese citizen.
Since I have worked and start working again in Japan and I have to deal with many bureaucrats (non political) these things do have effect on people, even if they decide not to follow politics. Not to mention that it's never good for forgeiners when party bordering ultranationalism gets more power. Koreans and Chinese living in Japan especially demanding more rights might face a cold shower if Restoration party and the likes get more power. I'm also fully aware of Japan's political mentality of sweeping issues under the rug and not to talk about them. If it doesn't effect you it doesn't mean it won't effect others. People just won't talk about it and go their merry way since it doesn't effect them.

edit. Aren't public workers in Osaka already prevented from promotions and advancements if they have tattoos? Or did crazy Hashimoto even get away with that one?

edit2. my bad "Osaka Mayor Toru Hashimoto, who launched a crusade to eradicate tattoos from the public sector last week, has announced plans to prevent the promotion and advancement of any city employee who declined to respond to a survey asking them if they have tattoos."

He is only collecting database of tattooed bad men&women and those who do not comply will be punished.
 
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