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Israel warns Hizbollah over Iran
- Thread starter BigBoss
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el retorno
Member
You keep saying that because jews have the right to become citizens of Israel it makes them evil. Countries get to decided who they let immigrate. Why does being born in Argentina make someone more entitled to Spain than a black african?
Your missing the point that there are still Arabs in Israel they never left they weren't forced out. It wasn't a "arabs out jews in." that your trying to make it.
And the declaration included these gems
Instigator
Banned
Jews not caring about Israel is not necesarily a statement that they don't care about their own history, it can be because they're disgusted with Israel's policies or they don't see the need for a separate homeland in this day and age. Opinions are diverse and people can reach different conclusions with the same information.
Well, you know, it's an open debate. I don't think anyone should have immunity from criticism. You can be upset, but then again, if you can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.
I'd be careful about applying persecution parallels like that. It depends on a lot of things. And there's a well-known, acrimonuous relationship between African Americans and American Jews.
el retorno
Member
There are very few jews that don't see a need for Israel. I'd like to know who you're talking about. Not defending are critizing israel isn't saying Israel doesn't need to exist.
theignoramus
Member
I didnt say anyone was evil, I`m pointing out a fact. One that you are trying to obfuscate. Israel believes in rights for one demographic, but denies the rights of people it views as undesirable or a `demographic threat`. We arent talking about a simple matter of immigration, we`re talking about people with legitimate title to land and houses inside Israel not being allowed in, because they are Arabs.
but isnt it?
'Livni proposed moving several Israeli Arab towns to Palestinian side of border'
Well, there are some criticisms that are just way out of line.
Both groups have gone through some pretty ghastly shit over the years, so the comparison seems apt. Assuredly, there are quarrels over who has had it worse, but that seems pointless from my end. Further, I have no idea what acrimonious relationship you're talking about, and that's kind of a sweeping statement overall. Either way, what Jewish people and black people think of each other is not particularly relevant here at all.
el retorno
Member
Is nazareth going anywhere?
Proposing territorial exchanges aren't the same as what you are trying to make it sound like. And abbas talked about making some settlements israeli does that mean the Arabs are denying citizenship based on religion? I mean its not like they said this http://www.usatoday.com/NEWS/usaedition/2011-09-14-Palestinians_ST_U.htm
And to your first point it also had to be determined if they left or were forced out. It also wouldn't transfer to their kids, and does the same right apply to jews that were kicked of their land? They held their titles to land to a country that doesn't exist anymore. I think Israel could grant them that right but it is not inherent and fundamental.
Okay. What are your thoughts?
Instigator
Banned
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American–Jewish_relations
Gee, Rawpower, I'm not even American and I know about this. How come you don't?
I think some would take issue because you equated your experience/history with theirs. It's a bit of an ironic retort on my part considering you played the Catholic card a bit.
If they don't care about Israel, including when it's fighting for its "survival", then they don't think there's a need for it. Silence is consent.
If you're interested, read this essay from people who want to stop this apathy and anti-Israel activism among young Jews:
http://jppi.org.il/uploads/Factors_in_delegitimation_of_Israel_and_younger_Jews.pdf
el retorno
Member
I really don't think not advocating for Israel is the same as not thinking it should exist. Or that it doesn't have the right to exist.
Because I've never experienced any hostility from my black buddies (who are quite passionate about the black predicament in America) even though I make it known that I am proudly Jewish and that some of my opinions can be considered to be pro-Zionist. My attitude on this subject in real life is no different than it is on here. I'll take a look at that link.
I think some would take issue because you equated your experience/history with theirs. It's a bit of an ironic retort on my part considering you played the Catholic card a bit.
Comparing Jewish persecution to black persecution is much more reasonable than any comparison between Jews and Christians. The latter is completely absurd, and I don't think anyone can argue that.
Edit: In fact, the link you posted just now seems to agree with me on this.
Instigator
Banned
No way you read that fast.
The problem is you believe there are only Jewish supporters of Israel and those more mellow about it.
You do concede there are anti-Israel activists among Jews, right? And not just one in a million, right?
Yes, I'd concede that first point, but just to be sure we understand each other, my whole argument wih the Catholic angle was a personal example to mark the difference between individuals and organizations. I don't support the Vatican (and even though I can relate to the struggle in Northern Ireland, I don't support the IRA either). It was not about persecution since I was bringing that up first as a reply to someone else in this thread (who didn't bring up persecution either).
It's pretty well known that many of the more Orthodox Jews believe that we shouldn't be settling in Israel again until Yahweh gives us the ok. Yet we both know that this will never happen, and so did the Zionists apparently.
Fair enough. Being half Irish, I suppose I could also relate to the Northern Ireland struggle. That's a debate for another thread though.
el retorno
Member
The article you quoted never states that there much antiisraeli activity from jews (besides radicals like chomsky).
Yes but he does believe in communities having self-determination i'm pretty sure. In that sort of system there could easily be jewish communities that could exist.
This site sums up my views pretty well. It's written by a Muslim and has a strong religious bent, but I agree with almost everything he has to say.
http://www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com/israelis.htm
http://www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com/judging.htm
http://www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com/distinguishing.htm
http://www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com/israelis.htm
http://www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com/judging.htm
http://www.islamdenouncesantisemitism.com/distinguishing.htm
They're talking about Lebanon though.
Shocking4U
Banned
Its writeen by a Muslim and has a strong religious bent but I'm sure he is extremly unbiased and can call it down in the middle.
theignoramus
Member
why even bring this up. it's like bringing up black/Korean relations in a thread about North Korea, it's a non sequitur and it's great way to make a heated debate turn really ugly.
Except in Iraq we used violations as justification. Against they practically meaningless.
I would argue there is some culture connection too.
Funniest thing I read today.
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