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Witcher 3 downgrade arguments in here and nowhere else

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BigTnaples

Todd Howard's Secret GAF Account
Lol if you cross the level borders you get the message that it's too dangerous because of dragons.

Solid. If you push on do you get eaten or is a turn around?


Also, some Lore peeps might be able to help me out on a portion of TW2 I was confused about. I read up on Dragons and it seems to say Witchers were made to kill Dragons, but then Foltest asks "Is it true Witchers Don't fight Dragons?" or something to that effect, like dragons are off limits to Witchers. Is this because of overhunting or what?
 

oceanskie

Banned
Developer Insider: The Witcher 3 Was Downgraded From 2013 List of All Features Taken Out &Why

http://whatifgaming.com/developer-i...-from-2013-list-of-all-features-taken-out-why

Affliction-Agony-Anguish-Distress-Heartache-Heartbreak-Misery-Pain-Sadness-Sorrow-Suffering-Torment-GIF.gif
 

Kaze2212

Member
Take a look at some screens from the 2013 version.

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_images_of_the_witcher_3-13837_en.html

Textures were lower res in many places, character models for main characters, NPCs, and horses, were much less detailed.

What was leaps and bounds better was the lighting, particles, reflections, water, LoD, Draw Distance, and possibly vegetation density.



I expect when I go to that exact spot in the PC version, Ultra settings, the assets will be every bit as detailed as that 2013 screen.

I think you are mistaking the sharpening filter for asset detail.

Yikes at those 2013 shots. Resizing images really can do wonders sometimes.
 
how come it seems like last gen devs would take the higher performing platform and work their way down, but it's reversed during current gen?
 
a0vb.jpg


While we still await PC footage, PS4 shows to have the building on the left.

Seems at this point PC will have the same. Thing is forget the 2013 footage, the right image was running on PC less than a year ago shown in real time. Would suck if these things took a hit on PC.
 
how come it seems like last gen devs would take the higher performing platform and work their way down, but it's reversed during current gen?

development costs are getting higher. high quality art is expensive making 2 sets of art assets is even more expensive. much easier to create simpler art and scale up things like resolution/shadow map size/lod etc.
 
Real-time reflections in the water are completely off and replaced with a cheaper render solution
This part of the article doesn't make sense. Footage we have seen from the final game still uses SSR for water surfaces.
 
development costs are getting higher. high quality art is expensive. much easier to create simpler art and scale up things like resolution/shadow map size/lod etc.

ok but last gen is when the recession was going on, wouldn't the publishers and devs have smaller budgets back then.
 

Chariot

Member
If I were CDPR, I would abide this man's request:

http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/35859-Open-letter-to-Cd-projekt-red?p=1651395#post1651395

I'd delete every other post,
I'd say we'd never do this kind of thing again, banking on the trust gained from this.
And then I'd lock the topic and sticky it on the W3 and CP2077 forums.

This would nip any future downgrade crises in the bud and have the forum public on our side for like at least 10 years.
Yes, this would be the smart thing to do - unless they really downgraded and are scared like chickens. BUCUCK! BUCUCK!
 

Sesuadra

Unconfirmed Member
If I were CDPR, I would abide this man's request:

http://forums.cdprojektred.com/threads/35859-Open-letter-to-Cd-projekt-red?p=1651395#post1651395

I'd delete every other post,
I'd say we'd never do this kind of thing again, banking on the trust gained from this.
And then I'd lock the topic and sticky it on the W3 and CP2077 forums.

This would nip any future downgrade crises in the bud and have the forum public on our side for like at least 10 years.

they won't do it, but I also think that would be the best move.
 

Ophiuchus

Member
The 'downgrade' discussion that goes on (or went on before they closed it) is interesting.While no questions are being answered, they prevent people form posting such comments or simply lock the thread.I think that even if these rumors as they call it are false they should not interfere with discussion.People bought new hardware or upgraded the old one for this game and they want some clarification on the issue.Of course some are pissed but to close or delete thread is not the solution.
 
Awww man I was looking forward to my PC overheating my room and me sweating like a madman while playing, but as long as the game-play is still the same I'm good.
 

misho8723

Banned
Take a look at some screens from the 2013 version.

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_images_of_the_witcher_3-13837_en.html

Textures were lower res in many places, character models for main characters, NPCs, and horses, were much less detailed.

What was leaps and bounds better was the lighting, particles, reflections, water, LoD, Draw Distance, and possibly vegetation density.



I expect when I go to that exact spot in the PC version, Ultra settings, the assets will be every bit as detailed as that 2013 screen.

I think you are mistaking the sharpening filter for asset detail.

Man, now that I look at those 2013 screenshots, oh good, they look so bad.. even though the foliage is better, but that sharpening effect is just hurting my eyes.. fuck that shit.. 2015 screenshots are clearly looking better in this case
 

dex3108

Member

Most of as here still think that game looks really good and that CDPR did good job with their firs open world game. But main issue is not that, main issue is that they did same thing as man other devs and advertised one thing and claimed that there wasn't any downgrades and they are still not willing to debunk downgrade by showing gameplay video. They are just saying that we should trust them.
 
On top of everything else, I do get the feeling that they could have hit their original targets by sticking to the narrow design of The Witcher 2. When TW2 was released, it looked incredible...but it could not have looked as it did had it been an open world game. It still feels like they, perhaps, overestimated what they could do in an open world game. Is Witcher 3 is completely seamless? I haven't seen any loading screens in footage whereas, previously, TW2 featured loads between areas quite regularly.

Between their inexperience with open world games and unknown capabilities of the new consoles, it certainly seems like they were overreaching.


I noticed that as well. Really dislike when effects or physics are updated at half rate. That makes it hard for me to enjoy Bioshock 1 and 2 on the PC these days at 60fps - the low update of the ragdoll physics looks awful.

This undoubtedly looks better than Witcher 2 though and is far more massive. I see this as a relational thing. Is Witcher 3 disappointing from a visual perspective? Not at all, it looks incredible. Is it disappointing relative to what high end PC users thought they were getting? Some things seem to be sure.

Otherwise, how is this disappointing relative to other open world/semi-open world rpgs? It certainly looks a good deal above Dragon Age, which had much simpler geometry, less density and worse character models. FFXV may surpass it when released, but it is looking rough around the edges at the moment (although animations are quite a bit better already)
 

pa22word

Member

PS4 fans really shouldn't be boasting over that.

The valley between a PS4 and a 980 is orders of magnitudes larger than the valley between a PS4 and the xbone, which despite what console warriors will tell you is actually a pretty slim margin all things considered.
 

DOWN

Banned
Frankly even if it hadn't been changed one bit besides the lighting engine and art style, I'd be just as disappointed. It went from looking like gorgeous concept art in many shots to looking like... a game. Lost some serious depth and subtlety in the visuals that I think would have needed much better graphics to pull off as cleanly as the SoD footage.
 

tuxfool

Banned
PS4 fans really shouldn't be boasting over that.

The valley between a PS4 and a 980 is orders of magnitudes larger than the valley between a PS4 and the xbone, which despite what console warriors will tell you is actually a pretty slim margin all things considered.

This is certainly true. It also should be noted that even as the game currently stands now, optimising it for the consoles is proving troublesome.
 

cripterion

Member
like in Battlefield when you try to leave the map's boundaries, the game warns you to turn around or face insta-death.

Oh I see. Yeah I was wondering how they were going to handle that.

So it's not surrounded by see or high mountains, just Geralt turning back on his own?
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
Is it me or does this look worse than the Witcher 2? The art style looks horrendous.

This is a more criminal downgrade than Watch_Dogs, and it's almost as bad as Dark Souls II.

I'm shocked at the difference between the release day and E3 builds. I personally don't think TW3 looks like a 'next-gen' game anymore.

It's so disappointing to see how expectations for major games have come below par. Even the latest AC trailer doesn't look so hot.

edit: Just saw the PC v PS4 comparison. Console version looks pretty atrocious, but the PC footage isn't a patch of what we were seemingly promised.

Played Witcher 2 as early as this morning and no. This clearly looks better than The Witcher 2, especially in the foliage area. Seriously, Witcher 2 has some great texture work, geometry and models, but trees and bushes and grass look preetty bad. Witcher 3's got it beat. And it's open world at that.
 

tuxfool

Banned
Played Witcher 2 as early as this morning and no. This clearly looks better than The Witcher 2, especially in the foliage area. Seriously, Witcher 2 has some great texture work, geometry and models, but trees and bushes and grass look preetty bad. Witcher 3's got it beat. And it's open world at that.

I don't think that is is doubt. Only the foolish are arguing otherwise.
 

OtisInf

Member
Funny how some people think you can optimize things without limits and at the same time keep all the graphical fidelity and deep, resource hungry subsystems you had before you started optimizing.

Of course some stuff isn't optimal when it's written at first, some things can be optimized without losing any quality whatsoever, but the vast majority of performance related work is always about compromises: something has to go to make room for extra performance. The goal is of course to do that by removing things / scaling down things without anyone noticing, however it can be that this isn't possible, or not in all cases. So: compromises have to be taken: keep it and live with the extra perf hit, or remove it/scale it down and gain the performance.

And there's no end: it's a slippery slope: there's always something to optimize by taking it away or scaling it down: it depends on what quality bar you want to stick to, as that's one side of the compromise.

Gamers of course are never happy with the compromises taken: they want all: and all the graphical fidelity and richness and all the performance, but that's not possible: to reach one, you have to sacrifice the other. It's a balance. With tricks you can get very far though (as in: the gamer won't notice s/he's being tricked) but there's obviously an end to that. With settings one can mitigate the burden a bit: the gamer can decide where to compromise and that's perhaps the best way to do it, but it's still a balance: you can't have everything, you can only choose where your pain will be: less graphical fidelity or less performance, on the only constant in the equation: the hardware.

This whole 'downgrade!' debate is pure a result of a lack of understanding what it actually takes to render a full frame on common hardware and at the same time have a massive amount of subsystems running concurrently making up the game world and all its elements, combined with over-eager marketing people who think it's wise to show the world imagery from pre-alpha code where maybe even half of all the subsystems of the final game aren't even running (so all the available hardware is put to work for running half the actual code making up the full game). Once the full game code and assets are complete, the hardware has to be used by all these subsystems, obviously leaving less room for the systems that were previously running the pre-fabricated demo for e.g. E3. To get near those results with final code is often impossible, as it would mean all the subsystems and assets added to the elements making up the demo have to run at infinite speed. :)

So you compromise: something has to give here and there to make room for them. It then comes down to (from the gamer's PoV): do I trust this dev that they have made all the right compromises and at the same time did they do all they could and what's possible to achieve those compromises?
 
What I find so frustrating about this is that they showcased this game years back with these amazing graphics, then only now turn round and say that they decided to work from the ps4/xbone specs and keep all 3 platforms unified bar a few tweaks for the PC version.

So in effect that very first reveal trailer is a complete and utter lie and was never going to look like that to begin with. If it was a decision half way through the game ot cut downgrade to cut costs and make it easier t odevelop for the consoles then I expected CDProjeckt to come out and be open to it's audience that this was the case. There wouldn't be such a huge blowback if they had just been open and honest about it. And CDProjekt are one of the very few devs that I would have expected that sort of openness from them.

oh well! :/
 

DOWN

Banned
Funny how some people think you can optimize things without limits and at the same time keep all the graphical fidelity and deep, resource hungry subsystems you had before you started optimizing.
Yeah what was CDPR thinking when they claimed they could manage that
 

Yahzi

Neo Member
Everyone hold your horses! The issues are being blown WAY out of proportion. Take a look at this :

The_Witcher_3__Wild_Hunt_20150507155231.0.jpg


Looks photo-realistic to me! Focus on the texture work in particular and lighting effects. There is no downgrade here! I can't wait to enjoy this next-gen graphics on my high-end system!
 

Easy_D

never left the stone age
They were always 2d though...

I think people underestimate how demanding it would be to render all the individual grass straws in full 3D. You need special super duper stuff to render hair/fur and that stuff is demanding as fuck. Imagine a hole world full of 3D grass. Then again them old voxel engines did it! Like Delta Force and the like, they had 3D grass if I remember (then again, voxels are butt ugly)

I'm not sure why people are complaining. With everything maxxed out, this is what we are getting :

The_Witcher_3__Wild_Hunt_20150507155231.0.jpg


Looks photo-realistic to me! Focus on the texture work in particular and lighting effects. There is no downgrade here! I can't wait to enjoy this next-gen graphics on my people!

Apart from the stretched texture (it happens) the lighting itself looks really good and natural, he's in a shadow, it looks flat for a reason, but it's still vibrant and colourful. It's an open world game, you can't expect them to pay attention to every single little detail like that, so a texture snafu as pictured isn't really a huge deal. But that's not the angle you're going for, is it, Junior? :p
 

Renekton

Member
PS4 fans really shouldn't be boasting over that.

The valley between a PS4 and a 980 is orders of magnitudes larger than the valley between a PS4 and the xbone, which despite what console warriors will tell you is actually a pretty slim margin all things considered.
980 is not the median-PC target I don't think.

Probably around GTX960, R9 270X or something.
 

cripterion

Member
I'm not sure why people are complaining. With everything maxxed out, this is what we are getting :

The_Witcher_3__Wild_Hunt_20150507155231.0.jpg


Looks photo-realistic to me! Focus on the texture work in particular and lighting effects. There is no downgrade here! I can't wait to enjoy this next-gen graphics on my people!

C'mon don't start cherry picking screens. Every game can be made to look bad.

The skybox looks great in the youtube vid posted above but I'm still disturbed by the overuse of wind and bending trees while Geralt's hair remains undisturbed :p
 
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