• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

CDPR: Witcher 3 was made possible because of console sales

Red Hood

Banned
Edit: shit, damn the enter button, I entered too soon, lol. Pulled a Sopranos there. Mods, can one of you complete/change the title? :(
Edit 2: Thank you!



Did the console versions restrict the PC version?
"If the consoles are not involved there is no Witcher 3 as it is," answers Marcin Iwinski, definitively. "We can lay it out that simply. We just cannot afford it, because consoles allow us to go higher in terms of the possible or achievable sales; have a higher budget for the game, and invest it all into developing this huge, gigantic world. "Developing only for the PC: yes, probably we could get more [in terms of graphics] as there would be nothing else - they would be so focused, like if we would develop only on Xbox One or PlayStation 4. But then we cannot afford such a game."

Why did the graphics change?
"If you're looking at the development process," Iwinski begins, "we do a certain build for a tradeshow and you pack it, it works, it looks amazing. And you are extremely far away from completing the game. Then you put it in the open-world, regardless of the platform, and it's like 'oh shit, it doesn't really work'. We've already showed it, now we have to make it work. And then we try to make it work on a huge scale. This is the nature of games development." It (the 2013 footage) was captured PC footage, not pre-rendered, Badowski confirms, but a lot had to change. "I cannot argue - if people see changes, we cannot argue," Adam Badowski says, "but there are complex technical reasons behind it. "Maybe it was our bad decision to change the rendering system," he mulls, "because the rendering system after VGX was changed." There were two possible rendering systems but one won out because it looked nicer across the whole world, in daytime and at night. The other would have required lots of dynamic lighting "and with such a huge world simply didn't work".

It's a similar story for environments, and their texture sizes and incidental objects. It was a trade-off between keeping that aspect of them or their unique, handmade design. And the team chose the latter. The data-streaming system couldn't handle everything while Geralt galloped around. The billowing smoke and roaring fire from the trailer? "It's a global system and it will kill PC because transparencies - without DirectX 12 it does't work good in every game." So he killed it for the greater good, and he focused on making sure the 5000 doors in Novigrad worked instead.

"People are saying that 2013 was better but actually there's plenty of things that improved since 2013," Michal Platkow-Gilewski points out. "Size of the world, frames-per-second..." "Yes!" realises Adam Badowski. "The game's performance: people say the game is well optimised. This is the first time for this company!" It's the first smile I've seen from him all interview. Marcin Iwinski picks it up: "Maybe we shouldn't have shown that [trailer], I don't know, but we didn't know that it wasn't going to work, so it's not a lie or a bad will - that's why we didn't comment actively. We don't agree there is a downgrade but it's our opinion, and gamers' feeling can be different. If they made their purchasing decision based on the 2013 materials, I'm deeply sorry for that, and we are discussing how we can make it up to them because that's not fair. "It's very important to stress: we are continuously working on the PC version, and we will be adding a lot of stuff, and there is more to come. We've proven it in the past that we support our games and we will be looking at the feedback and trying to make it better."

Source: Eurogamer


I searched GAF on "eurogamer", "witcher" and "downgrade", but couldn't fine a match. So, downgrade for the greater good if old.
 

SmokyDave

Member
Seems this thread got downgraded somewhere between idea and execution.

Edit: sorted now, must've taken a while for the text-ures to load.
 

Mikey Jr.

Member
Edit: ok better op.

Hmm, I wonder how much better it would have been? Like the initial reveal? Are consoles really holding back witcher 3 that much graphically?
 
Seems like the long and short of all this is simple:

In a fantasy world where game development didn't cost money, the PC-only version of Witcher 3 would look much better on the highest-end PCs.

In the real world, where making games costs money, a PC-only version of the Witcher 3 wouldn't look anything like those renders because it basically wouldn't exist. The size and scale of Witcher 3 only happened because they could count on console sales.
 

pswii60

Member
Seems like the long and short of all this is simple:

In a fantasy world where game development didn't cost money, the PC-only version of Witcher 3 would look much better on the highest-end PCs.

In the real world, where making games costs money, a PC-only version of the Witcher 3 wouldn't look anything like those renders because it basically wouldn't exist. The size and scale of Witcher 3 only happened because they could count on console sales.

.
 

owlbeak

Member
File this under "duh". Not sure why people couldn't understand this. I own a gaming PC and a PS4 and I play games on both (played Witcher 1 and 2 on PC,) and they both have their own strengths and weaknesses. But you know what? A great game is a great game, and The Witcher 3 is a great game. Wish people would stop giving CDPR a bunch of shit because most people don't understand how game development works. They are one of the few developers who care a lot about their games and the people who buy them and people are dragging them through the mud over some inconsequential BS. It's disheartening and embarrassing to watch as a fellow PC gamer.
 
It makes sense. Incorporating the console market enables CDPR to spend a lot more money on making the game epic. And if that means a slight compromise as opposed to focusing all out on pc visuals, then I'm totally ok with it as a pc gamer. So thanks for joining the party, consoles, the Witcher 3 is awesome.

Also, downgrade or not, the game is gorgeous as it is.
 
Seems like the long and short of all this is simple:

In a fantasy world where game development didn't cost money, the PC-only version of Witcher 3 would look much better on the highest-end PCs.

In the real world, where making games costs money, a PC-only version of the Witcher 3 wouldn't look anything like those renders because it basically wouldn't exist. The size and scale of Witcher 3 only happened because they could count on console sales.

Don't forget it also would've looked better if it was an exclusive on consoles too, but that would again decrease the budget.
 

pastrami

Member
It makes sense. Incorporating the console market enables CDPR to spend a lot more money on making the game epic. And if that means a slight compromise as opposed to focusing all out on pc visuals, then I'm totally ok with it as a pc gamer. So thanks for joining the party, consoles, the Witcher 3 is awesome.

Also, downgrade or not, the game is gorgeous as it is.

There was no compromise. Read what he said.

"Developing only for the PC: yes, probably we could get more [in terms of graphics] as there would be nothing else - they would be so focused, like if we would develop only on Xbox One or PlayStation 4. But then we cannot afford such a game."
 
Yeah, that's pretty much what it boils down to- the budget to make a PC-exclusive game that requires a $200+ GPU to run properly can't be made back if you restrict yourself to that market. Either you go PC/console and are "held back" by the consoles or you go PC-only and are "held back" by the shitty integrated GPUs in the average PC. I think you can guess which option results in a prettier game.

This is why even "AAA" PC-only games (DOTA2, HotS, WoW, Starcraft 2, etc.) aren't as visually impressive as console games, even if you just compare them to the games that were around when they launched- they had to target mediocre to shit hardware, because that's what most of their target audience has.
 

Skelter

Banned

This doesn't sound like PR speak at all to me. Sounds more like they're owning up to their mistakes of blaming youtube compression or using an old render. They were open and appreciate the answers even if I still want what we saw at VGX.
 

GlamFM

Banned
It makes sense. Incorporating the console market enables CDPR to spend a lot more money on making the game epic. And if that means a slight compromise as opposed to focusing all out on pc visuals, then I'm totally ok with it as a pc gamer. So thanks for joining the party, consoles, the Witcher 3 is awesome.

Also, downgrade or not, the game is gorgeous as it is.

Everything is right about this post. Especially the attitude.

Bravo.
 

Chesskid1

Banned
yup pretty much all developers that used to push PC graphics had to stop because the sales weren't good enough

crytek
cdprojekt
whoever made metro games idk

now pc graphics are so far ahead of "standard" games, they are starting to focus on things like 4k
 
You ungrateful bastards...

I'm talking about CDPR not PC gamers. Console sales were made possible because of PC gamers.

Also:

There were two possible rendering systems but one won out because it looked nicer across the whole world, in daytime and at night. The other would have required lots of dynamic lighting "and with such a huge world simply didn't work".

That's basically admitting they butchered the rendering engine for parity with consoles.
 
yup pretty much all developers that used to push PC graphics had to stop because the sales weren't good enough

crytek
cdprojekt
whoever made metro games idk

That is not why they (crytek) stopped pushing pc graphics. And the metro games still do. Metro LL was one of the best looking games the year it came out and still is super heavy on PC hardware.
 
Common sense - If anyone thinks that the niche high end PC market is enough to sustain $20-$50m AAA projects on its own, then they need a reality check.
 

Red Hood

Banned
It makes sense. Incorporating the console market enables CDPR to spend a lot more money on making the game epic. And if that means a slight compromise as opposed to focusing all out on pc visuals, then I'm totally ok with it as a pc gamer. So thanks for joining the party, consoles, the Witcher 3 is awesome.

Also, downgrade or not, the game is gorgeous as it is.

Yes, same here. I genuinely do understand why they did it, the reasoning is solid. And if that means CDPR can make more games in the future, I'm all for it. But I personally just think it's kind of... weird, rash and premature that they showed off something while knowing they had to make it work on the PS4 and XBO, only to come to the conclusion that the shown footage was way too ambitions.

So, I understand the intention and reasoning, but not the initial execution. Though I hardly think anyone would argue that consoles sell considerably more, which makes it understandable devs want their games on it as well. Witcher 3 still looks great, though nowhere near the 2013 reveal, but it looks great nonetheless.
 

UrbanRats

Member
Sounds reasonable to me.
All i personally wanted was more transparency in their PR answers, instead of some of the crap we got (before this).
Downgrades or changes happen, and it's just how it goes, but you don't have to be condescending or bullshit your customers.

That said, i feel like it's always wiser to aim high and show low, so when you eventually achieve medium, people are still impressed.
 

martino

Member
when i read "as it is" i understand more downgraded for max money than the game wouldn't exist.
Profit certainly wouldn't be as big with a pc only game but i doubt they would not reach profit with that scenario.
 

UrbanRats

Member
You ungrateful bastards...

I'm talking about CDPR not PC gamers. Console sales were made possible because of PC gamers.

Also:



That's basically admitting they butchered the rendering engine for parity with consoles.

You gonna fork millions of dollars to pay up for the missing market?

i'm a PC gamer (mostly) but i don't expect people to bleed money for me, i just want transparency and honesty.
 
Common sense - If anyone thinks that the niche high end PC market is enough to sustain $20-$50m AAA projects on its own, then they need a reality check.

Yeh. It makes me laugh every time someone makes a post about wanting this gen to end as soon as possible because it is holding back PC gaming.
 

Nzyme32

Member
Common sense.

Clearly the game wouldn't be possible if it was restricted to any single platform. Neither individual consoles or pc would provide enough revenue to have the game at the same scale and sizeable development
 

fastmower

Member
Sounds reasonable to me but I wish they could've said this earlier rather than saying "no downgrade".

Overall, I'm very happy with the game.
 

SparkTR

Member
Common sense - If anyone thinks that the niche high end PC market is enough to sustain $20-$50m AAA projects on its own, then they need a reality check.

That's true for any platform, when was there last a AAA exclusive on a single console that wasn't funded by the platform holder?

The thread title is fairly misleading, developing a game of this scale on only one platform in general wouldn't be possible as a third party, it may as well read The Witcher 3 was made possible because of PC sales, or Xbox sales, or PS4 sales. Without any one of the three the budget comes tumbling down and the scope changes.
 
Common sense - If anyone thinks that the niche high end PC market is enough to sustain $20-$50m AAA projects on its own, then they need a reality check.

Capping IQ at console technical capability is not a necessity for downward scalability. You could argue budgetary concerns, but what they showed at VGX was done. It's pretty much Watchdogs all over.
 

shandy706

Member
That's basically admitting they butchered the rendering engine for parity with consoles.

Well, if the one we got is the one that runs better (due to the sheer brute force needed)....then they made a good decision. The game is demanding even in its current form.

I can't imagine them going with a version that had a minimum requirement of a GTX 980 to run, lol. Imagine the backlash then. Having to purchase a $500+ GPU to run the game on low-med at 30fps would have put them in the ditch.

Want 1080p 60fps in the first rendering engine...better toss a few $k at a tri-SLI Titan X setup son.
 

Steejee

Member
Everything is right about this post. Especially the attitude.

Bravo.

Ditto. That even Witcher 2 got made at all is still impressive to me, and I've always like CDPR's community relations. Sure Witcher 1 started out rough and needed the big expansion pack to really get it to a golden state, but it was free for owners and did wonders for the game. Witcher 2 on consoles benefited everyone, and Witcher 3 losing a little top end fidelity is fine by me - it's still a great looking game on whole, and I'd rather CDPR survive as a company than I get some PC GAMER ELITE cred.

The only time I ever bemoan PC/Console cross platform games is when the PC version is so poorly executed that it might as well not have been done at all. Having played Doom on a 386SX that required a custom boot disk just to get the game working (and without sound), I long ago learned to be incredibly tolerant of any issue in a game I can work around, so that is a pretty short list of games that cross that 'why bother' threshold.
 
To all the people who are saying you would have needed 3 Titans to run that game as it was, 2 questions: 1. Have you ever heard of lowering graphics options? 2. Was the game running on 3 unreleased 2015 GPUs in 2013?

We could have played on Medium today and at least enjoyed that kind of IQ down the line, like what happened with Crysis. They could have allowed for lower IQ settings while aiming for their targets. They just copped out because consoles.
 

Sijil

Member
yup pretty much all developers that used to push PC graphics had to stop because the sales weren't good enough

crytek
cdprojekt
whoever made metro games idk

now pc graphics are so far ahead of "standard" games, they are starting to focus on things like 4k

Crysis 3 PC is stil a benchmark, not a lot of GPU's can push it at Ultra/60 FPS, same for Metro.
 
The AAA money has been on consoles for a while(one just needs to look at the financial statement of the publishers), unless you have a crazy pay 2 win model like Star Citizen.

Common sense - If anyone thinks that the niche high end PC market is enough to sustain $20-$50m AAA projects on its own, then they need a reality check.

Pretty much.

To all the people who are saying you would have needed 3 Titans to run that game as it was, 2 questions: 1. Have you ever heard of lowering graphics options? 2. Was the game running on 3 unreleased 2015 GPUs in 2013?

We could have played on Medium today and at least enjoyed that kind of IQ down the line, like what happened with Crysis. They could have allowed for lower IQ settings while aiming for their targets. They just copped out because consoles.

So you'd prefer not making as much money, likely not even recouping costs, much more complaining users because they can't run the game on their system, all for pleasing a small crowd with high end cards.
 

GlamFM

Banned
Ditto. That even Witcher 2 got made at all is still impressive to me, and I've always like CDPR's community relations. Sure Witcher 1 started out rough and needed the big expansion pack to really get it to a golden state, but it was free for owners and did wonders for the game. Witcher 2 on consoles benefited everyone, and Witcher 3 losing a little top end fidelity is fine by me - it's still a great looking game on whole, and I'd rather CDPR survive as a company than I get some PC GAMER ELITE cred.

The only time I ever bemoan PC/Console cross platform games is when the PC version is so poorly executed that it might as well not have been done at all. Having played Doom on a 386SX that required a custom boot disk just to get the game working (and without sound), I long ago learned to be incredibly tolerant of any issue in a game I can work around, so that is a pretty short list of games that cross that 'why bother' threshold.

Sure, there were cases where the PC version was a straight up 360 port, but I don´t think that´s the case here.

I´m crazy in love with the Witcher 3 on on my PS4 and I´m really happy it exists.
 
Top Bottom