• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

[Street Fighter III: New Generation] About Sean and Elena's nationalities

S

Subaru

Member
Hello =)

I'm doing some research about some things that I find strange about SFIII:NG and I need some help!

I have a theory: Sean was supposed to be american.

1) Sean was supposed to be the only "shoto" in the game
There is some talk about Ryu and Ken being out in SFIII, but Capcom decided to include them in the last minute because the reception wasn't good.

2) Sean was supposed to be american
While he have some brazilian stereotypes - he is black, like sports and is an apprentice (something that you could relate to the fact that Brasil is a 3rd world country), I have some evidences that he was supposed to be american:
a. his stage is in NYC (but is not Alex's stage)
b. his theme is the same as Alex's (but remixed)
c. he is a basketball player - a sport that is usually related to USA
d. Ken was not in the game, so he could be the other american (there isn't any SF game with only one american character)
e. I've never met a brazilian called Sean

3) Elena was supposed to be the brazilian character
a. capoeira is a brazilian "martial art"
b. Okamoto came to Brazil to study capoeira, and I remember seeing in magazines that he came here to make a brazilian capoeirista.
c. Elena is a pretty common name in Brazil

When they decided to add Ryu and Ken back to the game, they probaby had to find another country to Sean. So they could made him brazilian and decided to make Elena african, since they didn't had any african character yet.

I actually asked Okamoto on twitter yesterday about Elena and he told that she is African because... he wanted an African character. I asked him why she is not brazilian if he came here to make a brazilian character.

I also asked about Sean (what features make him brazilian?) and he didn't answer that at all.


So, anybody have any info about Sean? Anybody disagree?
 
S

SatoAilDarko

Member
It does make sense as Basketball is such a seterotypically American sport. Why wouldn't they use soccer in Brazil?

Also Elena's style is Capoeira.
 
S

Subaru

Member
Slate Soda said:
But what about Elena's design is Brazilian?
Click to expand...

Well, she is black, friendly, is a capoeirista... these are strong stereotypes about brazilians.
Oh, and Elena is a really common name here in Brazil. There is a telenovela author (Manoel Carlos) that always name his protagonists Helena. (Helena and Elena are really common here).
 
A

Angelus Errare

Banned
I remember back on GameFAQs so many people were in straight denial that Elena was black, fun times.

SatoAilDarko said:
It does make sense as Basketball is such a seterotypically American sport. Why wouldn't they use soccer in Brazil?

Also Elena's style is Capoeira.
Click to expand...

Sean was originally suppose to be American.
 
SolVanderlyn

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
Well, his King of Fighters counterpart Lucky Glauber is definitely American.

latest


I can see this being true, although there's no way to know for sure.
 
P

Platy

Member
So if Elena was supposed to be brazilian and Sean's stage being THE giveaway of him being USA ...

Why Elena has a clearly kenyan stage ?


Also, not that Street Fighter cares about this stuff, but Capoeira was created at africa and bought to Brazil with the slaves
 
S

Subaru

Member
Angelus Errare said:
I remember back on GameFAQs so many people were in straight denial that Elena was black, fun times.



Sean was originally suppose to be American.
Click to expand...

I know, right?
I'm writing an article about stereotypes in Street Fighter focusing in Blanka, Sean and Laura and Sean seems kinda off because he isn't the tipical brazilian. That could be nice - meaning that he isn't stereotyped - and almost every SF character is very stereotyped.
 
S

Subaru

Member
Platy said:
So if Elena was supposed to be brazilian and Sean's stage being THE giveaway of him being USA ...

Why Elena has a clearly kenyan stage ?


Also, not that Street Fighter cares about this stuff, but Capoeira was created at africa and bought to Brazil with the slaves
Click to expand...

While the second part of the stage really seems more like Africa because animals, they are representing there jungles... so it could be a brazilian jungle.

FlorestaAmazoniaRioSinuoso_thumb.jpg


Amazon / Brazil

latest


Elena stage

And capoeira was actually developed in Brazil (by the slaves). There are also some "african religions" (like Umbanda and Candomble) that are also brazilian.
 
noqtic

noqtic

Member
Isn't capoeira based on an african martial art anyway?

Brazilians can be black

There are quite a few Brazilian basketball players

He could have an American stage because that is where he is being trained?
 
P

Phoenix Fang

Banned
Platy said:
So if Elena was supposed to be brazilian and Sean's stage being THE giveaway of him being USA ...

Why Elena has a clearly kenyan stage ?


Also, not that Street Fighter cares about this stuff, but Capoeira was created at africa and bought to Brazil with the slaves
Click to expand...

I came in to post this, not many people know this little fact.

Subaru said:
While the second part of the stage really seems more like Africa because animals, they are representing there jungles... so it could be a brazilian jungle.

FlorestaAmazoniaRioSinuoso_thumb.jpg


Amazon / Brazil

latest


Elena stage

And capoeira was actually developed in Brazil (by the slaves). There are also some "african religions" (like Umbanda and Candomble) that are also brazilian.
Click to expand...

Africa has jungles also, just to let you know. And capoeira was actually developed in Africa and was brought to Brazil when the slaves was transported there.
 
S

Subaru

Member
Phoenix Fang said:
I came in to post this, not many people know this little fact.
Click to expand...

"Capoeira (/ˌkæpuːˈɛərə/; Portuguese pronunciation: [kapuˈejɾɐ]) is a Brazilian martial art that combines elements of dance,[1][2][3] acrobatics[4] and music, and is sometimes referred to as a game.[5][6] It was developed in Brazil mainly by West African descendants with native Brazilian influences, probably beginning in the 16th century. It is known for quick and complex moves, using mainly power, speed, and leverage for a wide variety of kicks, spins, and highly mobile techniques."

I know that Wikipedia is not a realiable source, but believe me, it's pretty known here in Brazil that capoeira was developed here.

Africa has jungles also, just to let you know.
Click to expand...

Yes, I know, I'm just arguing that her stage could be brazilian too. There is an identical river that appears on the background of her stage.

Isn't capoeira based on an african martial art anyway?

Brazilians can be black

There are quite a few Brazilian basketball players

He could have an American stage because that is where he is being trained?
Click to expand...

Yes, capoeira have some roots on african rituals and fighting, but it was developed on Brazil.

Yes, brazilians can be black, that's the most brazilian part of him.

Yes, brazilians can play basketball. But we are talking about Street Fighter, that use the most obvious stereotypes about every character.

About his stage, in later games he became "paulista", with stages in São Paulo and Santos. His song in 2nd Impact have some huge brazilian influence (samba + bossa nova).
 
P

Phoenix Fang

Banned
Subaru said:
"Capoeira (/ˌkæpuːˈɛərə/; Portuguese pronunciation: [kapuˈejɾɐ]) is a Brazilian martial art that combines elements of dance,[1][2][3] acrobatics[4] and music, and is sometimes referred to as a game.[5][6] It was developed in Brazil mainly by West African descendants with native Brazilian influences, probably beginning in the 16th century. It is known for quick and complex moves, using mainly power, speed, and leverage for a wide variety of kicks, spins, and highly mobile techniques."

I know that Wikipedia is not a realiable source, but believe me, it's pretty known here in Brazil that capoeira was developed here.



Yes, I know, I'm just arguing that her stage could be brazilian too. There is an identical river that appears on the background of her stage.
Click to expand...

Well sorry to inform you that they are wrong just like the English think that they created football when they didn't.
 
S

Subaru

Member
Phoenix Fang said:
Well sorry to inform you that they are wrong just like the English think that they created football when they didn't.
Click to expand...

There is an angola capoeira, but it is pretty different from the brazilian capoeira.

Is like brazilian jiu jitsu, of course have huge roots on the japanse jiu jitsu, but it's pretty different.

Elena's capoeira is 100% brazilian, is like Eddy and Christie capoeira.
 
J

JJD

Member
Phoenix Fang said:
Well sorry to inform you that they are wrong just like the English think that they created football when they didn't.
Click to expand...

Source? As far as I know Capoeira is brazilian.

Edit: Capoeira Angola was created by a brazilian in the early 1900 if I'm not mistaken. Source: My ass. I did 12 years of Capoeira lol. Still know how to play Berimbau!

Damn, I hope Sean makes it to the second wave of DLC for SFV!
 
P

Phoenix Fang

Banned
Subaru said:
There is an angola capoeira, but it is pretty different from the brazilian capoeira.

Is like brazilian jiu jitsu, of course have huge roots on the japanse jiu jitsu, but it's pretty different.

Elena's capoeira is 100% brazilian, is like Eddy and Christie capoeira.
Click to expand...

I'm not arguing the fact that there are different types, just like there are different types of kickboxing. My point is that the art started in Africa.
 
S

Subaru

Member
Phoenix Fang said:
I'm not arguing the fact that there are different types, just like there are different types of kickboxing. My point is that the art started in Africa.
Click to expand...

Yes, but still, Laura fights Brazilian Jiu Jitsu and everybody recognizes it that makes sense because she is brazilian.

Also, the "capoeira de angola" is more like a dance than a fight. Brazilian capoeira is way more agressive and have movements from other martial arts. Is the martial art that Elena fights.

When Okamoto came to Brazil, it was huge, I remember that every magazine interviewed him and they said: "Okamoto came to Brazil to study capoeira to make a brazilian capoeirista".
 
D

D3VI0US

Member
Yo the Brazilians are pretty good at basketball, their national squad is definitely respectable with a lot of NBA pros and the are probably best in South America right now and for the foreseeable future now that Argentina is older.

Here's what doesn't make sense, if Sean is black why not just make him African. Also why are Oro and Urien both from South America? Is Karin supposed to be Japanese? What's up with Gil, Necro, Q, and all the other weirdos? Why is Blanka green? I mean there are so many questions probably answered questions! SO MANY! Why don't I know these things?

Oh that's right I don't really give a fuck, I just wanna play Ken and dragon punch some dudes
 
The Spoony Hou

The Spoony Hou

Member
Being Brazilian, yes, I always took it for fact that Elena was supposed to be the Brazilian character in SF3, but they got dumb and changed it for whatever reason. It actually surprises me that people don't know that.

Sean is not a Brazilian name at all.
 
Finaika

Finaika

Member
The Spoony Hou said:
Being Brazilian, yes, I always took it for fact that Elena was supposed to be the Brazilian character in SF3, but they got dumb and changed it for whatever reason. It actually surprises me that people don't know that.

Sean is not a Brazilian name at all.
Click to expand...

Is Blanka a Brazilian name?
 
J

JJD

Member
Capoeira was created by black slaves in Brazil.

They trained to fight but had to disguise their training or they would be punished/killed. So their fighting style resembled a dance.
 
P

Platy

Member
S

Subaru

Member
Finaika said:
Is Blanka a Brazilian name?
Click to expand...

No, but could be.

"The meaning of Blanka, in esperanto, is "white". It is similar to "blanca" in Spanish, which also means white but in feminine form."

Street Fighter World Warrior encyclopedia explains it that the indigenous that found Blanka after the plane's crash found him "white", so they named him "Blanka".

Ok, Blanka is white (in feminin) in Spanish, but Capcom didn't know how to write "Congratulations" at the time. If today people thinks that we speak spanish in Brazil (and we have internet!), in 1991...

Also, we have that katakana confusion. BU-RA-N-KA could be BRANCA, that is in portuguese. Still feminin, but since japanese and english doesn't have gender in adjetives, it is a pretty common mistake.
 
S

Subaru

Member
Platy said:
Notice that it is flatter than Sakura.

Also, SFGalleries shows that Elena stage had elephants since the begining

qKq7VpV.jpg

http://www.sfgalleries.net/art/sf3/sf3/bgs/

While Capcom Wiki shows that the stage's below has way less forest, which fits much more with the Kenyan landscape

yKjJe6p.png

http://capcom.wikia.com/wiki/Elena

But yeah, Elena is a much more brazilian name than Sean =P
Click to expand...

Well, about the stage, I agree that represents better Africa than Brazil, but they could have changed when they turned Elena's african. You talk about those concept art, but we can see Ryu/Ken stages there too, and they were added later in the game.

(remember that Sean was supposed to be the only shoto in SFIII...)

So, these artwork could be from some changes were made (and they didn't have time to change Sean's stage).

Also, we can't see Hugo's stage there - he and his stage was almost complete in NG, but he was problaby cut because Ryu and Ken had to be created.
 
P

Platy

Member
Finaika said:
Is Blanka a Brazilian name?
Click to expand...

Also it should be noticed that there is a classic folklore figure in brazil called Curupira, which is a monster that protects the forest, has inverted feet and fire for his hair.

It is not hard to find depictions of him as a green monster with red hair =P
 
S

Subaru

Member
JailDesigner said:
Why not keep Elena as a brazilian and move Sean to Kenyan? Instead of switching two characters just move one
Click to expand...

I guess that Karate isn't that popular in Africa? (I don't know about that).
Sean became half brazilian/half japanese (actually now we now that his grandfather is japanese, so 1/4 japanese?), since Brazil is the country that have the biggest japanse community outside Japan.
 
K

Kain

Member
Sean being Ken's student and liking basketball are part of why he is so strongly identified with the US, but that alone doesn't convince me that he was originally american. Sodom is american and is obsessed with japanese culture, it would be kind of the same case, but less extreme.

What irks me is Elena, there I can believe she was always going to be brazilian and they changed their mind at the last minute.

JailDesigner said:
Why not keep Elena as a brazilian and move Sean to Kenyan? Instead of switching two characters just move one
Click to expand...

Yes, that would have made the most sense. Then again, it's Capcom we are talking about,
 
P

Phoenix Fang

Banned
JJD said:
Again, do you have a source for that? I'm curious.
Click to expand...

My source is the Africans I know that are into martial arts in London. Sorry but I don't have a source that I can point to online.

Another thing, I know a lot of Africans that don't have "African names" but yet they were born in Africa. Names don't really say where a person is from. I happen to know 3 Elenas. 1 Nigerian (37 years old), 1 Italian (26 years old) and 1 German (30 year old)
 
petran79

petran79

Banned
Basketball is popular in Brazil too.
They have Oscar Schmidt, one of the world legend basketball players and first scorer of all time
 
D

Dark Ninja

Member
I don't believe the Elena theory just due to her outfit isn't very Brazilian from a cultural standpoint. Elena's outfit and proportions are more inline with African tribes. They couldn't possibly switch anything major mid-production especially on a game like SF3, reworking a sprite to match a different nationality would have caused too many delays.

What they were probably going for with Sean is he's actually born in America by a family originally from Brazil. Ken is his mentor so it makes sense he lives in the US. As far as the basketball thing, his stage is NYC and the "Street" culture they were trying to capture with SF3's art direction is pretty much rundown Brooklyn NY. You'll see all those Street Basketball courts there with chains instead of regular net which is why Sean uses a "Street" Basketball and not the regulation NBA basketball. American's or people who live in America most commonly like Basketball instead of soccer/football which is more popular in Brazil.
 
C

chaobreaker

Member
Elena having a common Brazilian name could be due to Capcom not figuring out a nice Kenyan name for her in the end. I mean, they did give Blanka a spanish name even though he's Brazilian.

America is the hugest cultural superpower, so it wouldn't be so out of place for Sean to like Basketball. His stages taking place in the US could easily be explained by him still being trained by Ken and as such he lives in the US now.
 
S

Syntsui

Member
I have a few problems with your post:

While he have some brazilian stereotypes - he is black, like sports and is an apprentice (something that you could relate to the fact that Brasil is a 3rd world country), I have some evidences that he was supposed to be american
Click to expand...

1) Being black is not a brazilian stereotype.
2) Liking sports either, you could say football, but that's not the case.
3) Is an apprentice? Related to Brazil being a 3rd world country? What kind of fucked up logic is this? It makes no sense at all. We are not a third world country, not even close. We have our fair share of problems, but a third world country is a stretch.

I agree with the rest though. He is not a good representation of a brazilian citizen, at least not in a stereotypically way. I think we can appreciate this, in a way. But considering how explicit the stereotypes are in the series, I can only think that they decided this at the last minute.
 
The Hermit

The Hermit

Member
Neoxon said:
That would make sense, especially since (to my knowledge) Elena uses a Brazilian martial art.
Click to expand...

That explains a lot.

The Sean=Brazilian never felt right for me. And capoeira is a very Brazilian martian arts, even though it begun with the slaves descendants.

Also, I am pretty sure they changed a bit of their designs so they could fit their new country.

Elena with rings in the neck and Sean... Well, yeah.
 
S

Subaru

Member
Syntsui said:
1) Being black is not a brazilian stereotype.
Click to expand...

Yes it is! A big part of brazilian characters are black because of this. Also, we have the "mulata" stereotype that contribute to that. If you go to Laura's reveal thread, there are lots of posts implying that she should have more dark skin to look more brazilian.

2) Liking sports either, you could say football, but that's not the case.
Click to expand...

I agree with you, this sentence was me trying (too hard) to understand what makes him brazilian. Yes, soccer is our sport, and brazilians GENERALLY doesn't care about other sports. We used to be really into Formula 1, but since Senna died this passion was dying little by little..

3) Is an apprentice? Related to Brazil being a 3rd world country? What kind of fucked up logic is this? It makes no sense at all. We are not a third world country, not even close. We have our fair share of problems, but a third world country is a stretch.
Click to expand...

Well, Brazil is a country "in development". This is the current status. Sean is a character "in development" too. Also, he wants to learn from and be like the american guy. I know that's really a stretch, but someone could think about this. I don't know if japanses in 1996 would think this.

I agree with the rest though. He is not a good representation of a brazilian citizen, at least not in a stereotypically way. I think we can appreciate this, in a way. But considering how explicit the stereotypes are in the series, I can only think that they decided this at the last minute.
Click to expand...

I'm doing a research about stereotypes, and it's hard to say anything about Sean because he is a character there doesn't fit the Street Fighter pattern at all! Even in NG, we see the Kung Fu brothers representing HK, the japanese ninja girl, the russian super soldier, the british gentleman, etc...

It seems that he was decided in the last minute, but since he was the only shoto in the game, it seems that he was CHANGED in the last minute.

I don't believe the Elena theory just due to her outfit isn't very Brazilian from a cultural standpoint. Elena's outfit and proportions are more inline with African tribes. They couldn't possibly switch anything major mid-production especially on a game like SF3, reworking a sprite to match a different nationality would have caused too many delays.

What they were probably going for with Sean is he's actually born in America by a family originally from Brazil. Ken is his mentor so it makes sense he lives in the US. As far as the basketball thing, his stage is NYC and the "Street" culture they were trying to capture with SF3's art direction is pretty much rundown Brooklyn NY. You'll see all those Street Basketball courts there with chains instead of regular net which is why Sean uses a "Street" Basketball and not the regulation NBA basketball. American's or people who live in America most commonly like Basketball instead of soccer/football which is more popular in
Click to expand...

I agree with you about Elena's outfit, maybe Sean became Brazilian because they decided to make her african (and not brazilian) in earlier stages, and Brazil was a huge market for Capcom at the time.

Sean is not born in america, he is born in Brazil and have japanese a japanese granfather (we don't know nothing about this grandmother).

And yes, you are just saying that he REALLY looks american, that Brooklyn culture that Brazil doesn't have. So why is he brazilian? Is it because Ken joined the roster and there was no brazilian at the time? (Elena could be made african earlier).

Also, why Oro (that is Japanese) lives in Brazil? I know he inspired by Helio Grace, but why the hermit lives in Brazil? Is that because there wasn't a brazilian character at the time?

And if it makes sense he being associated to USA because he wanted to be trained by Ken, why in the later games they made stages in São Paulo?
 
G

GorillaJu

Member
games like SF and Tekken tend to blur the lines on nationalities, with people being raised/trained outside of their native countries and not always using fighting styles associated with their heritage.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Like a Dragon creator talks about Sega “flat out rejecting” the first Yakuza game thinking it wouldn’t sell
Game Dev
16
942
MiguelItUp replied
Ok, let's talk about this Persona 3 scene...
Cringe
25
3K
Shut0wen replied
Kojima reveals that Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker was supposed to be MGS5 at first
Game Dev
16
2K
VinnyMac replied
Final Fantasy VII Rebirth is 100 hours long
News 2 3
135
12K
TrebleShot replied
Visions of Mana Releases on Summer 2024, New Footage Revealed Xbox Direct 2024
News Hype 2
52
4K
IFireflyl replied
Top Bottom