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Bravely Second The Ballad of the Three Cavaliers (Demo thread)

Oregano

Member
It looks like people who pre-ordered the Collector's Edition on the Nintendo UK Store have been e-mailed download codes for early access to the Bravely Second demo. I downloaded it earlier today(through my web browser too!) and I was wondering who else has managed to download it.

Just some bullet point impressions:
  • Agnes sounds kind of weird, is it the same VA?
  • The new town looks really nice, more detailed than the first game.
  • The Wizard and Astrologian don't seem too unique at the moment.
  • Magnolia seems to be a fun character so far.

Also Aimee(the native american character) has been redesigned to a cowgirl as speculated from the fact the job costume was changed. She also has a (pretty bad IMO) southern drawl.

E9NHozl.jpg

Mrgrgr if old.
 

MLH

Member
I was tempted to pre-order at Nintendo UK just for the demo code and then cancel, but it felt wrong.

Anyway the demo will be out on the eshop for everyone (in Europe) on February 11th, I'll be waiting with the rest of you.
 

rhandino

Banned
Aimee looks really nice, for reference this is ha before:

ztJCd8H.png


and this is her now:

QEc3ynz.jpg


I like boot looks but the new one look great =3
 

bon

Member
Changing a native american character completely into a cowgirl to be politically correct is the most paradoxical thing I've seen in a while.
 
Until they change Catmancer to it's god-given name Nekomancer no fucking buys.

Take a stand people, have some fucking self respect.
 

Eolz

Member
Aimee looks really nice, for reference this is ha before:

ztJCd8H.png


and this is her now:

QEc3ynz.jpg


I like boot looks but the new one look great =3

So they removed the tatoo as well? Not really surprised by the clothing change, but meh.
Just so people know, it's S-E calling the shots for the localization (just like the first one, Binari Sonori is doing the localization).
 

Oregano

Member
Until they change Catmancer to it's god-given name Nekomancer no fucking buys.

Take a stand people, have some fucking self respect.

Ha, on that note it's weird they localised Jean as Janne and the fact that they're Cavaliers and not Musketeers.

Although that might clash with Magnolia's peppering of French in her speech.
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
So in an matter to avoid offending people, they expose their ignorance and potentially offend more poeple with the switch. Not only is she a cowgirl, lets slap on that southern drawl.

Going to skip this.
 
Changing a native american character completely into a cowgirl to be politically correct is the most paradoxical thing I've seen in a while.

Is it confirmed canon that she was the BD equivalent of Indigenous? Because if so, this issue would be more of a catch-22. Either stay with the original design to stay faithful to her heritage and end up as a fetishization of said heritage or change her clothing and her race to be more politically correct.

BD games are otaku-pandering to the max.
 
So in an matter to avoid offending people, they expose their ignorance and potentially offend more poeple with the switch. Not only is she a cowgirl, lets slap on that southern drawl.

Going to skip this.

And who is the drawl going to offend? How is any of this offensive?
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
And who is the drawl going to offend? How is any of this offensive?

It is a stereotype on top of a stereotype replacing a stereotype they thought was offensive but this new stereotype probably does more to offend the stereotype that didn't want to offend.

It's stupid.
 

Oregano

Member
Oh, the Wizard really changes when you gain a job level and unlock spellcraft. You can add modifiers in exchange for MP. The two at the minute are the ability to cast the spell at the beginning of the round or inflict it as physical damage on one opponent.

Also the dungeons display a recommended level on the bottom screen. Pretty nice.
 
I mean, I assume you still kill her within a few minutes of meeting her like all the other asterisk holders, so it's whatever. Can't get worked up over this after FE Fates.
 

BennyBlanco

aka IMurRIVAL69
Aimee looks really nice, for reference this is ha before:

ztJCd8H.png


and this is her now:

QEc3ynz.jpg


I like boot looks but the new one look great =3

I'm so lost. Why did this happen? I'm not really crazy about either design, but she isn't any less sexualized.
 

Oregano

Member
I'm so lost. Why did this happen? I'm not really crazy about either design, but she isn't any less sexualized.

It wasn't about sexualisation. The issue was the exploitation(if that's the right term) of Native American culture.


On another note the encore ability for battles is cool. You can take on another wave of enemies for a higher reward if you wipe them out in one round but you don't regain any BP so if you Brave x4 you're going to be left as a punching bag.
 
It is a stereotype on top of a stereotype replacing a stereotype they thought was offensive but this new stereotype probably does more to offend the stereotype that didn't want to offend.

It's stupid.

I live in the south.

We all pretty much speak with a little bit of a drawl. That part really isn't offensive.
 

rhandino

Banned
I'm so lost. Why did this happen? I'm not really crazy about either design, but she isn't any less sexualized.
Exploitation of Native American culture.

She was changed from a warrior with influences of native american culture to a cowboy, that also means that they changed the outfit that the playable party wears when using that Asterisk job.

 

Shin-chan

Member
It's kind of a shame that such a great battle system is being treated so poorly by SE. Everything else about this sequel sounds phoned in and charmless.

Any idea when the demo is available to everyone in the UK?
 

Oregano

Member
It's kind of a shame that such a great battle system is being treated so poorly by SE. Everything else about this sequel sounds phoned in and charmless.

Any idea when the demo is available to everyone in the UK?

February 11th according to the official site.
 

Ulthwe

Member
Exploitation of Native American culture.

She was changed from a warrior with influences of native american culture to a cowboy, that also means that they changed the outfit that the playable party wears when using that Asterisk job.
Thx for the explanation. Just to be sure on this, if the character had been a mongolian warrior, a hispanic bullfighter, maybe a brazilian capoeira dancer, would there've been any issue?
Genuine question, as I'm not from the USA and only know about Native Americans superficially.
 
Oh... I thought it seemed early for the demo to roll out.

I played the Japanese demo earlier, but stopped because Legend of Legacy was more interesting.

Can't wait to try out the demo in English (so I know what's going on better).
 

Ridley327

Member
Thx for the explanation. Just to be sure on this, if the character had been a mongolian warrior, a hispanic bullfighter, maybe a brazilian capoeira dancer, would there've been any issue?
Genuine question, as I'm not from the USA and only know about Native Americans superficially.

Native American misappropriation has been a big thing for a while now. For example, there's long been a ton of controversy over the Washington Redskins continuing to use that name, given its history as a racial epithet for that culture.
 

rhandino

Banned
Thx for the explanation. Just to be sure on this, if the character had been a mongolian warrior, a hispanic bullfighter, maybe a brazilian capoeira dancer, would there've been any issue?
Genuine question, as I'm not from the USA and only know about Native Americans superficially.
I think that the problem was mostly that the design was kind of tacky and thoughtless and in the past few years there has been and increase in the various movements that try to educate people about native american culture symbols, like the headdress, and how some stereotypes have been perpetuated thanks to them instead of being used as a celebration of the culture from where they spawned in the first place.
 

Ulthwe

Member
Native American misappropriation has been a big thing for a while now. For example, there's long been a ton of controversy over the Washington Redskins continuing to use that name, given its history as a racial epithet for that culture.

I think that the problem was mostly that the design was kind of tacky and thoughtless and in the past few years there has been and increase in the various movements that try to educate people about native american culture symbols, like the headdress, and how some stereotypes have been perpetuated thanks to them instead of being used as a celebration of the culture from where they spawned in the first place.
Thanks, I'll look for documentaries on the matter. I remember reading about people being 1/8 (or whatever) cherokee and getting some kind of government support.
 
Thx for the explanation. Just to be sure on this, if the character had been a mongolian warrior, a hispanic bullfighter, maybe a brazilian capoeira dancer, would there've been any issue?
Genuine question, as I'm not from the USA and only know about Native Americans superficially.

The nationality aspect is really key here. It's not particularly weird to have a sci-fi or fantasy setting where some people have an indigenous-feeling style, like Horizon: Zero Dawn or Enslaved: Odyssey to the West (just off the top of my head), and while there might be some questions about how and when that's handled well, people are generally gonna be okay with it.

The issue here is that it's a fantasy world -- not Earth, but a place with its own different cultures -- but the character is just a pastiche of Native American stereotypes, and especially the feather headdress which is a specific tradition of Plains tribes and seen as religiously and culturally significant. On this level it would already be pretty weird to include any class that was really heavily tied to a specific real-world ethnicity that doesn't exist in BD's world, but you add that to the current situation of indigenous Americans (who, unlike Spaniards or Brazilians, don't have a country and a large population to maintain their cultural traditions) and it gets really ugly to just exploit these people's imagery without any context or respectfulness. It's not a completely unique situation, but it is one specific to indigenous cultures that have been mostly wiped out and therefore don't have the same ability to influence the use of their culture as people with a current national identity do.

EDIT: A few of the original BD classes have outfits that are inspired by ethnicities -- the Spell Fencer by an Arabian style, Monk by China, etc. -- though they're all a bit more of "inspired by" than directly imitating. I honestly think if this class hadn't had the feather (which has a specific significance) and had a better name instead of "Tomahawk" (which honestly is the most offensive part) nobody would've given it a second look. Even then it wasn't changed because people complained, but rather affirmatively changed by localization staff who recognized how issues of Native American representation have been common in media the last few years and wanted to avoid a tone-deaf choice.
 

Ulthwe

Member
The nationality aspect is really key here. It's not particularly weird to have a sci-fi or fantasy setting where some people have an indigenous-feeling style, like Horizon: Zero Dawn or Enslaved: Odyssey to the West (just off the top of my head), and while there might be some questions about how and when that's handled well, people are generally gonna be okay with it.

The issue here is that it's a fantasy world -- not Earth, but a place with its own different cultures -- but the character is just a pastiche of Native American stereotypes, and especially the feather headdress which is a specific tradition of Plains tribes and seen as religiously and culturally significant. On this level it would already be pretty weird to include any class that was really heavily tied to a specific real-world ethnicity that doesn't exist in BD's world, but you add that to the current situation of indigenous Americans (who, unlike Spaniards or Brazilians, don't have a country and a large population to maintain their cultural traditions) and it gets really ugly to just exploit these people's imagery without any context or respectfulness. It's not a completely unique situation, but it is one specific to indigenous cultures that have been mostly wiped out and therefore don't have the same ability to influence the use of their culture as people with a current national identity do.
You nailed it with the "no country and barely any population" comment. Really interested in knowing more, will definitely dig the library.

Regarding the demo, I'm looking forward to it. One of the latest Axe of the Blood God podcasts praised the japanese release, and I basically want to hear if the new music is that of a downer.
 
Regarding the demo, I'm looking forward to it. One of the latest Axe of the Blood God podcasts praised the japanese release, and I basically want to hear if the new music is that of a downer.

Japan has been killing me lately with these sequels with massively downgraded soundtracks. I'm still not over the drop in quality from Xenoblade to Xenoblade X and I think this one is gonna be even worse. :(
 

bon

Member
The nationality aspect is really key here. It's not particularly weird to have a sci-fi or fantasy setting where some people have an indigenous-feeling style, like Horizon: Zero Dawn or Enslaved: Odyssey to the West (just off the top of my head), and while there might be some questions about how and when that's handled well, people are generally gonna be okay with it.

The issue here is that it's a fantasy world -- not Earth, but a place with its own different cultures -- but the character is just a pastiche of Native American stereotypes, and especially the feather headdress which is a specific tradition of Plains tribes and seen as religiously and culturally significant. On this level it would already be pretty weird to include any class that was really heavily tied to a specific real-world ethnicity that doesn't exist in BD's world, but you add that to the current situation of indigenous Americans (who, unlike Spaniards or Brazilians, don't have a country and a large population to maintain their cultural traditions) and it gets really ugly to just exploit these people's imagery without any context or respectfulness. It's not a completely unique situation, but it is one specific to indigenous cultures that have been mostly wiped out and therefore don't have the same ability to influence the use of their culture as people with a current national identity do.

EDIT: A few of the original BD classes have outfits that are inspired by ethnicities -- the Spell Fencer by an Arabian style, Monk by China, etc. -- though they're all a bit more of "inspired by" than directly imitating. I honestly think if this class hadn't had the feather (which has a specific significance) and had a better name instead of "Tomahawk" (which honestly is the most offensive part) nobody would've given it a second look. Even then it wasn't changed because people complained, but rather affirmatively changed by localization staff who recognized how issues of Native American representation have been common in media the last few years and wanted to avoid a tone-deaf choice.

I don't think totally whitewashing characters with Native American influence is appropriate though, even in a fantasy setting. Specifically changing them to cowboys is in rather poor taste. Tweaks like removing the feather and changing the name would have been a much better approach.
 

Oregano

Member
The brightness is all blown up in that off-screen image, but ... did they make the skin light?

She only appeared for a short scene so far(two hours into the demo) but I think she was tanner than the other characters, although it might have been toned down.

Japan has been killing me lately with these sequels with massively downgraded soundtracks. I'm still not over the drop in quality from Xenoblade to Xenoblade X and I think this one is gonna be even worse. :(

The music is pretty good so far, though probably not as good at the first game's. The new battle music is definitely good though.
 
I don't think totally whitewashing characters with Native American influence is appropriate though, even in a fantasy setting.

I know a lot of people have looked at it this way, but it's really an odd stance to take. In the real world, there's no issue whatsoever around the art, visual style, and superficial culture of indigenous groups not being "represented" enough. The goals and preferences of activists from indigenous communities around the world vary a lot, but none of them have "include some people who dress in a way broadly inspired by our people, but who aren't actually representatives of said people" as an agenda item. In practice, the people who are most closely affected by these media depictions are not feeling "whitewashed" when they are removed -- far and away the more common request would be affirmatively to remove them.

Like, if we were talking a game set on Earth with an actual Native character I'd agree entirely, but in a fantasy setting there's actually no way for a character like this to be anything but a stereotype pastiche that's at least vaguely inappropriate.
 
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