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Bravely Second The Ballad of the Three Cavaliers (Demo thread)
- Thread starter Oregano
- Start date
cosmicblizzard
Banned
I don't really think this way personally.
I'm Jewish and would love to see more representation and inspiration even if it involves vaguely stereotypical designs and takes place in a fantasy world. If there was a game with an equivalent "stereotype level" to Aimee that was removed or replaced in the localization process, I would absolutely be disappointed and consider it a sort of "whitewashing" even if the depiction wasn't super flattering in the first place (provided it isn't outright intentionally hateful, which this isn't).
charlequin
Banned
You're speaking from the vantage point of a completely different minority group with a completely different history and completely different set of concerns and issues. The way issues of representation are typically perceived by Native people are not the same as they are for Jews, which are not the same as they are for yet other ethnicities. When a creator is looking to be respectful in a situation like this, the specific concerns mounted by the affected group are going to be what's most relevant.
Aimee looks really nice, for reference this is ha before:
and this is her now:
I like boot looks but the new one look great =3
Old costume is by far superior imo. Yet another ignorant and disappointing move by NoA/NoE.
Southerners aren't a racial and cultural minority that got their shit wrecked to a ridiculous degree.
Glass Rebel
Member
The decision to change it to a cowgirl was reasonable due to how the job system works. Shouldn't have made it in the first place but at least they're learning.
*snicker*
*snicker*
Meccanical
Member
Oh my fucking god did they really name the chick that uses guns Aimee.
I don't get how this change *isn't* extremely offensive. Changing a Native American inspired design to a Cowboy(girl), which is a caricature of the people who committed genocide on them, disgusts me so much.
This is just as bad as if they changed a Jewish character to a German one, imo.
This is just as bad as if they changed a Jewish character to a German one, imo.
Glass Rebel
Member
What an odd stance to take. The original character is inspired by stereotypes of said culture and on top of that unnecessarily sexualized.
And that's not even remotely as bad to me compared to replacing it by the people who mass slaughtered them. My dad grew up on the Siletz reservation in Oregon and I've always had parts of the native culture here in my life, and while that's different from the Plains motif, it hurts head so much to think that someone thought that this was an okay thing to do instead of editing the character in ANY other possible way.
I'm not sure what exactly the bonus is but there is some kind of bonus for completing the demo.
The cowboy one has a hat so it is by default the better one.
kuroneko0509
Member
yes. various stuff depending on your demo progress
meltingparappa
Member
Not to be pedantic, but what would even constitute a necessity?
I can see though how if they had to go in to change the model regardless, it was tempting to arbitrarily shoehorn in a pair of pants.
Yes.
I also really liked that th story in the demo seems to be an actual prologue to the main game and will focus on the characters that look like the 3 Musketeers.
Glass Rebel
Member
I'd understand this position if Amy/Aimee was actually a respectful representation of Native American culture. As it stands, they simply replaced one offensive stereotype with a way less offensive one. For me that's a net gain.
Unnecessary was maybe the wrong word and maybe this is just me but if you're going to have a minority character (or rather a character that badly represents a minority), do it in a respectful manner and not just to fetishize it.
That's cool.
Makes a lot of sense for an RPG demo. Offers something to add to the main game while trying it out to see if it's something the player will like.
*ahem* Last I checked SE was doing the localization just like for the first Bravely Default, not Nintendo.
Give War A Chance
Member
Is the demo a side story/chunk of the game?
Or is a side story that isn't part of the shipping game?
Or is a side story that isn't part of the shipping game?
Aimee looks really nice, for reference this is ha before:
and this is her now:
I like boot looks but the new one look great =3
Ah, she looked really qt as her old self.
kuroneko0509
Member
demo story isn't related at all. they call it as 'prologue' but when you play the full game it doesn't make sense actually. although i might remembering stuff wrong....
Teletraan1
Banned
So why not just tone down the stereotypes? The changing into the thing that is a stereotypical representation of who slaughtered the first stereotype is way more gross than the original hammy stereotype. They could have been respectful with the costume, and even gone with something very authentic and empowering while also changing the class name from something other than Tomahawk which didn't even fit the playstyle of a character with a bow and is just some old time racism that has no part in society period.
at first i was annoyed by the change but it's just too meta, it almost feel like subtle trolling.
there is no winning but i'll take this loss with a laugh
I really like both designs so I'm ok with getting the final version there.Aimee looks really nice, for reference this is ha before:
and this is her now:
I like boot looks but the new one look great =3
kuroneko0509
Member
Just want to correct something. Tomahawk (or rather Hawkeye now) main weapon isn't bow, it's rifle.
Glass Rebel
Member
But Amy/Aimee isn't even a Native American character. They just took inspiration (in the worst way possible) from real life cultures to design a fantasy tribe. Changing it to something "more respectful" would make it better but still not good. It's exploitative any way you look at it.
edit: people will have differing opinions on how offensive which thing is and from the looks of it there's no common ground to be reached so let's just agree to disagree and say that the entire situation has been an unfortunate series of events. This isn't the thread to discuss this anyway.
Here's the thing. I will take pretty much anything that I can get and the Cowboy change is extremely personally offensive to me. Unlike the vast majority of Americans on GAF, I did not grow up in a Christian family and I was not raised on any of the big religions. My dad was grew up on a reservation and my mom, who was raised hardcore catholic, literally said Fuck Religion as a teenager and never looked back on it. I grew up going to pow-wows, not Church. I grew up raising and riding horses, not playing Football or Baseball. That was the culture of my childhood and where the little spirituality that I have left that hasn't been crushed out of me by the circumstances of life comes from.
So, I will fucking take anything that represents that part of my life in any way and the Southern Cowboy change is just so mind-blowingly infuriating.
Apologies for shitting up the Demo thread with my frustrations.
Muffin Awesome
Member
Aimee looks really nice, for reference this is ha before:
and this is her now:
I like boot looks but the new one look great =3
Real question being missed here, are those chaps assless?
(Sorry after seeing all the legitimate discussion this popped into my head, what if? And then the next round of backlash to ensue)
meltingparappa
Member
I think that's incredibly applicable to the topic at hand, and worth taking note of.
I know that you don't somehow represent every member of tribe and don't need people from other cultures thinking they know what's best for your personal sensibilities, but I'm saddened that when an issue of representation of a marginalized group comes up, it's easier just to erase them from media.
I find it an incredible credit to Capcom to reach out to LGBT groups to keep Poison true to her origin story instead of hand waving it away, and wish more games could take a cue from that, even if it doesn't universally guard against a certain amount of legitimate criticism.
charlequin
Banned
No, I mean, it's relevant to at least something that's come up and been discussed here due to appearing in the demo.
I think the reaction really is going to differ between cases where a member of a marginalized group is represented but in an offensive way, and cases where someone uses trappings of a marginalized group without actually representing them; this is much more the latter.
Got an early demo code and finally sunk some time in it. Keep in mind that the story from the demo is a bit of a prologue not present in the final game, but there's not much going on. It plays as a series of simple quests from the villagers. I've played 5h, with one dungeon left.
Music:
Yep, music is worse than BD. Not bad at all, but when you find yourself humming the old tunes when done playing...
Combat:
Great improvements to an already great combat system. Engage Bravely on a submenu attack or magic? Check. Auto-combat with different slots to program? Check. Keep on fighting to add bonus xp if you win on the first round? Check. Quick access to encounter rate from the map? Check.
There's also surprise "new challenger" combats which can make you eat dust if you are low on Bravely.
Graphics:
Art direction is superb, as the first one. It seems to recycle quite a few assets (enemies, backgrounds) from BD though, but keep in mind the demo takes place on an area already present on the first game. The few dungeons seem a bit more inspired, but they're quite small.
Jobs:
There's 2 new ones (
) and 6 returning ones (
), some of them available from the go, and you can guess which ones you can get from the weapons in the shop. Sadly, the Three Cavaliers don't swap costumes in the demo.
Still on the fence on this one, haven't even preordered. I don't feel like sinking more time on a JRPG right now, even if it's as welcoming to newbies as this is.
Music:
Yep, music is worse than BD. Not bad at all, but when you find yourself humming the old tunes when done playing...
Combat:
Great improvements to an already great combat system. Engage Bravely on a submenu attack or magic? Check. Auto-combat with different slots to program? Check. Keep on fighting to add bonus xp if you win on the first round? Check. Quick access to encounter rate from the map? Check.
There's also surprise "new challenger" combats which can make you eat dust if you are low on Bravely.
Graphics:
Art direction is superb, as the first one. It seems to recycle quite a few assets (enemies, backgrounds) from BD though, but keep in mind the demo takes place on an area already present on the first game. The few dungeons seem a bit more inspired, but they're quite small.
Jobs:
There's 2 new ones (
Astrologian, Wizard, Hawkeye
Freelancer, Valkyrie, Red Mage, Swordmaster, Performer
Still on the fence on this one, haven't even preordered. I don't feel like sinking more time on a JRPG right now, even if it's as welcoming to newbies as this is.
Elaugaufein
Member
You do get warned about forced "new challengers" too it says something like "more await" when combat starts.
You're missing a new job
Excorcist
Elaugaufein
Member
Including fully completing the bestiary and defeating the Baal on Hard ? There's a bonus for each of those.
I'll pay attention at the beginning of combat.
Wasn't that job in BD?
I believe it will take me the same.
I did not beat the Baal on Hard. I'll have to grind if I want to do that.
Nah, that's a new one and a weird one at that.
FunkyDealer
Banned
I think this could have been handled better by altering the existing costume and the class-name. Maybe use Mayan design elements instead?
She looks cool as a cowgirl, but I agree with the others who think it's darkly ironic.
It has no effect on my opinion on the game or desire to play it, however. I'm interested, but I haven't played the first yet.
She looks cool as a cowgirl, but I agree with the others who think it's darkly ironic.
It has no effect on my opinion on the game or desire to play it, however. I'm interested, but I haven't played the first yet.
Elaugaufein
Member
Demo's officially out in the PAL regions.
If you're just interested in blasting through for the bonuses:
Play on Casual
Play through the story until you unlock the Moon Base and start building (it's by far the slowest party)
Disable Encounters and grab all the treasure chests, from all the dungeons first. There's hidden chests on the world map (run into the edge on the "alcove" looking things on the world map and mash x, should be 2 in the desert (not including the quest item) and 1 in
the forest area from the south exit in town.
After that just play through the story and it'll lead you through everything.
Spellcrafted
while dual wielding Rods is hilariously broken for boss fights in the demo abuse it as much as possible.
You need to complete the besitiary (ie defeat all bosses once and non-bosses until all the black boxes are full) to get a bonus. Chaining battles is the best way to do this and get JP/Exp as well.
aren't worth it as a grinding area if you're playing on Hard (they should work okay on Normal and great on Easy) they can be found
.
You have to beat the
fight on Hard to get a bonus (you get a different bonus for beating it on any difficulty) but you can change to Hard just before the fight (and the fight is actually pretty easy if you take my previous advice since it can be 1 rounded).
Don't buy things from the shop unless you've got a plan for them (the Demo is actually fairly stingy with pg, and the sellback is low) and the dungeon items are usually way better.
Sometimes dungeon weapons are better than the best shop items even if a class has lower proficiency ranks in them so make sure to consider that. Also the lack of Dual Wield and Two-Handed makes Guns surprisingly good Melee base weapons for classes with good Dex since they are Two-Handed by default.
If you're just interested in blasting through for the bonuses:
Play on Casual
Play through the story until you unlock the Moon Base and start building (it's by far the slowest party)
Disable Encounters and grab all the treasure chests, from all the dungeons first. There's hidden chests on the world map (run into the edge on the "alcove" looking things on the world map and mash x, should be 2 in the desert (not including the quest item) and 1 in
the forest area from the south exit in town.
After that just play through the story and it'll lead you through everything.
Spellcrafted
Red magic
You need to complete the besitiary (ie defeat all bosses once and non-bosses until all the black boxes are full) to get a bonus. Chaining battles is the best way to do this and get JP/Exp as well.
Chompers
on the desert beach to the west of town
You have to beat the
Baal
Don't buy things from the shop unless you've got a plan for them (the Demo is actually fairly stingy with pg, and the sellback is low) and the dungeon items are usually way better.
Sometimes dungeon weapons are better than the best shop items even if a class has lower proficiency ranks in them so make sure to consider that. Also the lack of Dual Wield and Two-Handed makes Guns surprisingly good Melee base weapons for classes with good Dex since they are Two-Handed by default.
Yeah they're both the same thing, pretty much.
Has anybody been able to get more villagers from StreetPass? Because I've been using Spill Pass to get a chance to encounter StreetPass users with the demo but I haven't been able to get any of them yet.
I know the demo is officially out now, so there's gotta be more people out there playing the demo with a chance of getting villagers via StreetPass.
Eighty Deuce
Banned
I like my waifu like my sweet tea. Brown, sugary, and not watered down.
SpaceBridge
Member
Wonder when demo will hit NA? I need more BD in my life.
Elaugaufein
Member
They handled the whole thing pretty well just some questionable skill naming:having the class be Hawkeye and their innate Eagle Eye and leaving the skill set as Shamanism (and Harpoon for Pierce Def sounds more like a Pirate skill should have gone with Armor Piercing or something).
Aimee's voice is kinda strange when most of the vocal patterns are generic but it'd hardly the first time that's happened in a JRPG.
Should be 2 weeks before the game. They've roughly swapped the Bravely and Fire Emblem launches (again).
Aimee's voice is kinda strange when most of the vocal patterns are generic but it'd hardly the first time that's happened in a JRPG.
Should be 2 weeks before the game. They've roughly swapped the Bravely and Fire Emblem launches (again).