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Wreav · May 9, 2016

The prevailing notion in the increasingly left leaning western world is that transgendered people are brave for recognizing and embracing their true selves in the face of a public that might not understand them. Bruce becoming Caitlyn was celebrated on the cover of Vanity Fair to much fanfare.

However, Rachel Dolezal was vilified by both white and black America, enduring slurs such as "Can't Jamima". The charge leveled at Dolezal was "racial theft" or "cultural appropriation". However, you rarely hear such phrasing aimed towards the transgender community for appropriating another gender. I think it's true that there are struggles that a trans person could never fully understand about their chosen gender, just as their are cultural struggles that a transracial person could not understand about their chosen race.

I'm not bagging on trans folks at all, but I just find the separation of race and gender in this context to be really interesting, when race and gender are generally protected from inequality equally under the law.

Crayons · May 9, 2016

Race isn't hardwired into the brain

MTF transwomen have brains more similar to female brains than to male brains, for example.

Wreav · May 9, 2016

Give me a break. It's not bait, it's a discussion. It's concerning that folks can't even comment on race vs gender without fear of censorship.

Like I said, I'm not anti trans.

GeordieMark · May 9, 2016

Huh??? Oh man... Is this even a thing?

Deft Beck · May 9, 2016

That's not the same thing at all.

This is not going to be a good thread.

maquiladora · May 9, 2016

Oh boy...

Broken Joystick · May 9, 2016

I think I see your point.
But I don't quite understand.

BHK3 · May 9, 2016

Transrace is an actual thing?

Fj0823 · May 9, 2016

Oh boy, interesting debate here for sure
...

but mah videogames call me...

*runs*

ivysaur12 · May 9, 2016

Because gender dysphoria is a real diagnosis that has been researched and studied with a psychological consensus while racial dysphoria is a thing that isn't real that Rachel Dolezal said one time.

Adaren · May 9, 2016

Kas said:
Yeah....this will be a ride and a half.

Or it'll be 3 pages of "Nope" reaction gifs.

You decide, GAF!

EDIT: They all got deleted and my post no longer makes sense...

Randolph Freelander · May 9, 2016

Wreav said:
Give me a break. It's not bait, it's a discussion. It's concerning that folks can't even comment on race vs gender without fear of censorship.

Like I said, I'm not anti trans.

I just don't think you fully appreciate exactly what it means for someone to be transgendered, and how speaking of that in racial terms is apples and oranges.

blame space · May 9, 2016

race and gender aren't the same thing

SomedayTheFire · May 9, 2016

ivysaur12 said:
Because gender dysphoria is a real diagnosis that has been researched and studied with a psychological consensus while racial dysphoria is a thing that isn't real that Rachel Dolezal said one time.

there's literally nothing else to be said.

BanGy.nz · May 9, 2016

You couldn't even make it two words into the title before messin up.

Crud · May 9, 2016

ivysaur12 said:
Because gender dysphoria is a real diagnosis that has been researched and studied with a psychological consensus while racial dysphoria is a thing that isn't real that Rachel Dolezal said one time.

.

Shut this down.

UnemployedVillain · May 9, 2016

Crayons said:
Race isn't hardwired into the brain

MTF transwomen have brains more similar to female brains than to male brains, for example.

I think this post sums it. There's nothing about race really hardwired into the brain. When people say it's a social construct they literally mean it. There are tiny biological differences (phenotypical expressions, sensitivity to certain disorders, etc), but it's mainly cultural and you don't need to be part of a specific race to enjoy its culture

Chezzymann · May 9, 2016

Wreav said:
Give me a break. It's not bait, it's a discussion. It's concerning that folks can't even comment on race vs gender without fear of censorship.

Like I said, I'm not anti trans.

Gender is a mindset that's hardwired into your brain, race isn't. That's the difference.

The Silver · May 9, 2016

Adaren said:
Or it'll be 3 pages of "Nope" reaction gifs.

You decide, GAF!

i hope so, i can't deal with this shit again, people incapable of understanding how transgenderism is a completely different thing than the social construct of race

Levito · May 9, 2016

Gender is a social construct, race isn't.

EDIT: Perhaps I misspoke, but the literal color of someone's skin is a far different matter than gender. Gender, and the status quo 'rules' that come with it, are a social construct.

Fhtagn · May 9, 2016

BHK3 said:
Transrace is an actual thing?

No, it's not.

Levito said:
Gender is a social construct, race isn't.

Race absolutely is a social construct.

How much Gender is a social construct is a much more complex question (it clearly is to at least some extent) but trans people and intersex people have existed forever... "Transracial" people have not.

Iksenpets · May 9, 2016

Ok, going to try and take this seriously.

Sex and gender identity are tied to a number of biological phenomena, hence people's feeling of being born in the wrong body. Their body was configured one way, but their psychology was configured the other way (or at some midpoint along the spectrum). It's not a choice, anymore than their sexual orientation is.

Race, on the other hand, is a largely social phenomenon. You can't be born with a black mind in a white body because there's no preexisting biological notion of blackness for you to be born into. And because it's a social phenomenon, tied to community and history and all of that, you start to run into issues of appropriation.

Alienous · May 9, 2016

Uh, culture isn't genetic.

Risette · May 9, 2016

Wreav said:
However, you rarely hear such phrasing aimed towards the transgender community for appropriating another gender.

b r u h

trans people aren't appropriating, they ARE that gender.

davepoobond · May 9, 2016

Levito said:
Gender is a social construct, race isn't.

race is a social construct....

(not saying i agree transrace is a thing, mind you)

Wreav · May 9, 2016

Levito said:
Gender is a social construct, race isn't.

Isn't judaism as a race a social construct in large part?

Slayven · May 9, 2016

Transracial isn't a real thing and anyone that entertains this nonsense is an idiot

BennyBlanco · May 9, 2016

dolezal was some kind of weird charlatan who was just trying to further her career IMO. her entire career was about being black. you could say she did some positive work, and i'm sure she did though I never really looked into it..... but nobody goes through gender reassignment as a career move.

SheSaidNo · May 9, 2016

ivysaur12 said:
Because gender dysphoria is a real diagnosis that has been researched and studied with a psychological consensus while racial dysphoria is a thing that isn't real that Rachel Dolezal said one time.

What about people who transition who dont feel gender dysphoria?

http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/08/not-all-trans-folks-dysphoria/

Azuran · May 9, 2016

Wreav said:
However, you rarely hear such phrasing aimed towards the transgender community for appropriating another gender.

Wow

UnemployedVillain · May 9, 2016

Wreav said:
Isn't judaism as a race a social construct in large part?

Well Judaism falls into that middle section of the venn diagram and counts for both since it's a religion and an ethnic group

SheSaidNo said:
What about people who transition who dont feel gender dysphoria?

So why did they transition? Isn't transitioning a result/consequence/solution of gender dysphoria?

anaron · May 9, 2016

what about otherkins though

Africanus · May 9, 2016

Wreav said:
Isn't judaism as a race a social construct in large part?

Yes, which is why there is a division between ethnically Jewish and culturally/religiously Jewish.

When one refers to the Jewish race, they may be referring to any one part of those three, or multiple.

ElectricBlanketFire · May 9, 2016

Wreav said:
Isn't judaism as a race a social construct in large part?

Judaism is a faith traditionally followed by Jews. You can be Jewish without following Judaism.

And it's transgender, not transgendered.

Wreav said:
However, you rarely hear such phrasing aimed towards the transgender community for appropriating another gender.

Egads.

John Kowalski · May 9, 2016

Risette said:
b r u h

trans people aren't appropriating, they ARE that gender.

sounds like thief talk to me

Slayven · May 9, 2016

BennyBlanco said:
dolezal was some kind of weird charlatan who was just trying to further her career IMO. her entire career was about being black. you could say she did some positive work, and i'm sure she did though I never really looked into it..... but nobody goes through gender reassignment as a career move.

She faked race based attacks against herself and more scary against her kids.

She is not mentally healthy enough to define anything but bullshit

Princess Viola · May 9, 2016

transrace isn't a thing

jesus christ

Gotdatmoney · May 9, 2016

Sex is biological. You can't control that shit. Race is a social construct as to why we have seen the concwpt of race change throughout history. Come on, you can't feel black. Nothing about being black is hardwired besides you have dark skin (and this is even vague since many people of indian descent have dark skin but are not defined as black because again there is no fucking biological basis of race).

Explain to me how you identify as black and know right away?

ZombiePlatypus · May 9, 2016

Uh..

Yeah as stated being transgendered is an actual condition with differences that manifest in the brain, showing it's more than a flimsy whim that people would hop on.

Far be it from me to tell people what race or culture they should identify with or relate to, but these are really not the same thing at all and a pretty offensive comparison.

NoblesseOblige · May 9, 2016

I would need to see some academic information on what you mean by transracial folks before I can begin to understand the question enough to answer, OP.

Also it's 'transgender' not 'transgendered'.

SkeptiMism · May 9, 2016

Here's a more serious reply.

It's not the same thing.

How exactly do you think an error would happen in the development of a fetus that it would grow to have the identity of a person of another race? Can you honestly see any way in which it would be in a similar level? Like sure, I can give that some people may feel that they feel more at home with people of another race, the same way I feel more at home with women (being a straight man who has never really felt comfortable with other men). But to compare it to being transgender? No, it doesn't work. All that requires is some mess up with your chromosomes or something like that.

You say you are serious about it and don't any have a problem with transgenders, but then you use phrases like "appropriating another gender".

Really no offense, but you might wanna take a long deep look at your post, and ponder the question why people aren't taking it seriously.

Wazzy · May 9, 2016

The comparison of these two is really weird and always comes off as shady when I see people bring it up.

Transracial is a problem because many people aren't doing it because they felt they were born in the wrong body but that they were shamed for being born that way. It's not something I want to see supported.

It is legitimate to see how someone could feel they were meant to be a different gender.

ElectricBlanketFire · May 9, 2016

OP, did you do ANY research before making this thread?

braves01 · May 9, 2016

I expect time and further scientific study will help legitimize transracial identities as it has for other marginalized identities over the past century.

Adaren · May 9, 2016

Race doesn't have a biological basis, but it doesn't change the fact that Rachel Dolezal felt like she was a different person than who she was born as, did something about it, and got mocked and shamed by pretty much everyone in America. Race is a social construct, but I don't think that sufficiently answer's the OP's question of why she was "vilified".

BennyBlanco · May 9, 2016

Slayven said:
She faked race based attacks against herself and more scary against her kids.

She is not mentally healthy enough to define anything but bullshit

yeah, it's been a while but her entire situation was really fucking bizarre

SheSaidNo · May 9, 2016

UnemployedVillain said:
Well Judaism falls into that middle section of the venn diagram and counts for both since it's a religion and an ethnic group

So why did they transition? Isn't transitioning a result/consequence/solution of gender dysphoria?

Sorry, edited with a link, http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/08/not-all-trans-folks-dysphoria/

Razorback · May 9, 2016

I haven't thought much about this but I think that the main issue is that there is a biological difference between males and females. Someone might be born with a female brain on a male body. On the other hand there is no such thing as a black brain or a white brain, so there is no such thing as feeling like you're black or white.

Of course culturally it is a different story.

ElectricBlanketFire · May 9, 2016

Adaren said:
Race doesn't have a biological basis, but it doesn't change the fact that Rachel Dolezal felt like she was a different person than who she was born as, did something about it, and got mocked and shamed by pretty much everyone in America. Race is a social construct, but I don't think that sufficiently answer's the OP's question of why she was "vilified".

Because she made up a thing that doesn't exist.

SoulUnison · May 9, 2016

I came into this thread thinking you'd be talking about something else entirely.

Pretending to be of a race you have no connection to isn't "transracial," it's just delusional and manipulative.

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