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Post-Women's March: white women, working class, and people might need to reflect

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Timedog

good credit (by proxy)
Instead of marching and actually doing something, white women that didn't vote for Trump need to look in the mirror for some reason because unrelated white women also voted for Trump. That tweet is beyond idiotic.

The picture of the sign in the OP, I have less of an issue with, but good god that tweet is dumb.
 

WaffleTaco

Wants to outlaw technological innovation.
That is part of it, but a majority white male march would be treated with more tension by the cops because of the assumed harmlessness of white women due to benevolent sexism.

Ugh, let me approach this from another angle. If you see an editorial against princess narratives, it almost always is written by a white woman. The ones asking for more princess narratives tend to be from women of color. Why? White girls are raised with the narrative that they are to wait to be cherished and find their value in the love of an assumed-to-be-white man to the point that it poisons our relationships and we chafe under it. Girls of color don't get the message that they are to be cherished nearly enough. We experience sexism in different ways even as children.

White feminists who fail to get out of their bubble have a hard time seeing how a princess narrative could be empowering and enriching to someone else when we see it as disempowering and infantilizing. That is why listening is important. That doesn't mean we stop agitating against benevolent sexism, that means we account for the experiences of others in our activism.
I can understand this, I guess I never really considered the princess narrative before as a woman, that it could be empowering I mean.
 

LionPride

Banned
I'm a white woman who voted for Clinton. Fuck the other white woman who voted for trump. I was totally disgusted when I read that statistic months ago.
Honestly, I shouldn't have been as surprised as I was. I know quite a few woman who voted for Trump just so Abortion would be banned. It's that fucking petty that they would risk other rights just for that. I just had too much faith that they would not vote for sexual predator. But that abortion right?

As a white woman I would like to apologize to the other races. I don't want forgiveness. But as an individual you can bet my ass I try as hard as I can to convince my fellow whites to see the facts and to vote for not only benefiting themselves as woman, but to actually think beyond themselves and see that we need to pick up the slack. Minority woman get even less rights. It's shameful.

I work at a factory surrounded by people and when mean people I mean white men. Who lets say are not educated...at all. I was told to my face tonight. Woman will never have equal rights ever compared to men. Right to my face.

This is the fight that we as woman face day in and day out of all races. And if the largest part of that gender can't get its head out of their collective asses then the fight will never be won.

I just wanted to share my thoughts that have been brewing in my head for a few months now. I just needed to share.
Man thank you for sharing, for real.
 
Yeah that sign has the right idea, wrong place. The women marching on Saturday undoubtedly voted against Donald Trump. Additionally I really hate signs that address and talk down to massive groups of people like that.
 

krazen

Member
I'm a white woman who voted for Clinton. Fuck the other white woman who voted for trump. I was totally disgusted when I read that statistic months ago.
Honestly, I shouldn't have been as surprised as I was. I know quite a few woman who voted for Trump just so Abortion would be banned. It's that fucking petty that they would risk other rights just for that. I just had too much faith that they would not vote for sexual predator. But that abortion right?

As a white woman I would like to apologize to the other races. I don't want forgiveness. But as an individual you can bet my ass I try as hard as I can to convince my fellow whites to see the facts and to vote for not only benefiting themselves as woman, but to actually think beyond themselves and see that we need to pick up the slack. Minority woman get even less rights. It's shameful.

I work at a factory surrounded by people and when mean people I mean white men. Who lets say are not educated...at all. I was told to my face tonight. Woman will never have equal rights ever compared to men. Right to my face.

This is the fight that we as woman face day in and day out of all races. And if the largest part of that gender can't get its head out of their collective asses then the fight will never be won.

I just wanted to share my thoughts that have been brewing in my head for a few months now. I just needed to share.

Thanks Math,

The issue isn't "The women in the op wanna slag off all the white women in the march and don't want their help". Its for dialogue, figuring out what the bigger goal is, figuring out where we personally are fucking up towards that goal, and what we can do on our end to push it forward
 

ExVicis

Member
Well you got any suggestions since you seem to be on the outside peering in
A new thread to discuss in terms what White Female privilege that waits before using an accusatory tone or random single tweets would probably be alright.

On a different better note a friend of mine (Filipino Asian Woman) and I were talking to a White Female friend of ours after the Women's March in DC about how to go about talking to people and but she and I were of the agreement that communication and understanding are the first step. So instead of saying the symptom of "Some White Women don't side with progressives" the cause instead that is "Some White Women don't side with Progressives because X" is probably better and a discussion about that sounds good.

Actually reflecting or helping to reflect is better than telling or talking about how someone needs to reflect.

So the new hotness is marginalized groups bullying one another over who has suffered more? Why should we do Republicans jobs for them?
Because change comes through cannibalizing one another and throwing skepticism on your allies for possibly being "fake".
 

D i Z

Member
So the problem is mine now that you're in complete agreement with me? Or are you just accosting me about what I said in general because you agree with the things I said in my quoted post? Which one is it?

Again I'm not impressed or intimidated. If you agree with me then that's all there is to it. If you don't (Or even if you mostly agree with what I said) then your posts would have better served you actually discussing the intricacies of why. A dialogue so you can explain your point more to me and I can detail what I mean more to you.

Instead you decided a flamboyant comeback about "coming at you" and an argument on my perception of your post would better serve you, I'm not sure why.

Dawg, You're really not important to anything I have had to say. You are free to read what I have said so far at your leisure. You're really not understanding that you're not even in my, or anyone else's way. You aren't needed for this discussion, in the same manner that those 'show up for the weekend' women aren't either if all you can do is find offense and argue.
Not worth the time, or resources. You are literally creating space to be discarded when others need it to be more informed.

" I'm not impressed or intimidated."

Gum drop trails.
 
Here's the thing, say you "defeat" the Republicans in their current form. What if you need or want these fake allies in the future, where they gonna be then?

Wouldn't it depend on who is in office at that point? You have a point though. You're still going to have the issue of "allies" not helping out groups like BLM when it comes down to it.
 

Infinite

Member
Not a platitude. And yes, I'm on the outside looking in, which is why you probably don't understand my point of view. I'm not emotionally invested into this whole scenario, but I don't need to be that to have a valid opinion. All I'm saying is that instead of pointing fingers at each other people need to start to work with each other, otherwise you won't see any positive outcome. Not understanding this boggles my mind.

I want inclusive and intersectional progressive efforts and that's not going to happen without having these discussions. These discussions will get ugly. It is what it is.
 

Pau

Member
Yeah, no. Look at this thread. I don't see anything positive coming out of it, just a gap that keeps getting better. You guys better learn how to use each others strong points and work together.
I dunno the white women who are posting seem to be down for working together and continuing to talk to their fellow white women who voted for Trump.

Of course, that gets lost in the sea of men in this thread talking about it. But that's the nature of GAF's demographics. :p
 
I want inclusive and intersectional progressive efforts and that's not going to happen without having these discussions. These discussions will get ugly. It is what it is.
That's not how you discuss with each other. You discuss with each other in a respectful manner with a goal both share. It seems people forgot how to discuss.
 

D i Z

Member
I'm a white woman who voted for Clinton. Fuck the other white woman who voted for trump. I was totally disgusted when I read that statistic months ago.
Honestly, I shouldn't have been as surprised as I was. I know quite a few woman who voted for Trump just so abortion would be banned. It's that fucking petty that they would risk other rights just for that. I just had too much faith that they would not vote for a sexual predator. But that abortion right?

As a white woman I would like to apologize to the other races. I don't want forgiveness. But as an individual you can bet my ass I try as hard as I can to convince my fellow whites to see the facts and to vote for not only benefiting themselves as woman, but to actually think beyond themselves and see that we need to pick up the slack. Minority woman get even less rights. It's shameful.

I work at a factory surrounded by people and when I mean people I mean white men. Who lets say are not educated...at all. I was told to my face tonight. Woman will never have equal rights ever compared to men. Right to my face.

This is the fight that we as woman face day in and day out of all races. And if the largest part of that gender can't get its head out of their collective asses then the fight will never be won.

I just wanted to share my thoughts that have been brewing in my head for a few months now. I just needed to share.

Long time fan. First time writer. Thanks for sharing this.
 

LionPride

Banned
I dunno the white women who are posting seem to be down for working together and continuing to talk to their fellow white women who voted for Trump.

Of course, that gets lost in the sea of men in this thread talking about it. But that's the nature of GAF's demographics. :p

It seems as we get the perspective of white women, more sense is made by them, how bout that...

That's not how you discuss with each other. You discuss with each other in a respectful manner with a goal both share. It seems people forgot how to discuss.

What fairy tale world is this? Sometimes both sides don't share the same goal, or anything close to it.
 

ExVicis

Member
Dawg,

You're really not important to anything I have had to say. You are free to read what I have said so far at your leisure. You're really not understanding that you're not even in my, or anyone else's way. You aren't needed for this discussion, in the same manner that those 'show up for the weekend' women aren't either.
Not worth the time, or resources. You are literally creating space to be discarded when others need it to be more informed.

" I'm not impressed or intimidated."

Gum drop trails.

Sure thing Dawg.

But it's clear you don't really have something to say or inform anyone since I'm someone and you've failed at every opportunity to "inform" me of whatever it is you have to say. You're talking a very big game, you've been talking a big game.

But I've yet to really see you deliver. It's more than clear you're just here to throw the blame more than offer solutions but that's fine, you can do that it's your prerogative. But that doesn't as if that means your superior to me or anyone else in this thread.

Once again I remain unimpressed and again seem to to be lacking a feeling of intimidation. I hope though you'll change the former, dawg.
 

D i Z

Member
I dunno the white women who are posting seem to be down for working together and continuing to talk to their fellow white women who voted for Trump.

Of course, that gets lost in the sea of men in this thread talking about it. But that's the nature of GAF's demographics. :p

Cos it's the white men getting butthurt about what white women need, and want to sort out for themselves. Like they ever had the liberty to do so before....

Sure thing Dawg.

But it's clear you don't really have something to say or inform anyone since I'm someone and you've failed at every opportunity to "inform" me of whatever it is you have to say. You're talking a very big game, you've been talking a big game.

But I've yet to really see you deliver. It's more than clear you're just here to throw the blame more than offer solutions but that's fine, you can do that it's your prerogative. But that doesn't as if that means your superior to me or anyone else in this thread.

Once again I remain unimpressed and again seem to to be lacking a feeling of intimidation. I hope though you'll change the former, dawg.

Ok.
 
I dunno the white women who are posting seem to be down for working together and continuing to talk to their fellow white women who voted for Trump.

Of course, that gets lost in the sea of men in this thread talking about it. But that's the nature of GAF's demographics. :p
Kinda. All I see is disrespectful behaviour. No wonder the country is in a disrupted state as it is now.

The internet. :(
Yeah, no. People who want solutions can have that even on the internet.
 

watershed

Banned
I think Trump's election and the post-election protests have really opened up white Americans to intersectionality. People I've known who would never even use the word are suddenly saying feminism has to be intersectional and that is refreshing to hear from them. Progressive white women are suddenly realizing that their own social progress is more fragile than they thought and they seem to be reconsidering their relation to other oppressed communities.
 

Mik2121

Member
Cos it's the white men getting butthurt about what white women need, and want to sort out for themselves. Like they ever had the liberty to do so before....
While I haven't participated in the conversations here except for some questions to another guy, I find this interesting.
Don't you think it goes both ways? Black men talking about what black women need? This is a forum, you should expect people to try to participate in the discussion, no need to be aggressive like that, man.
 

Infinite

Member
That's not how you discuss with each other. You discuss with each other in a respectful manner with a goal both share. It seems people forgot how to discuss.

who are you talking to?

Anyway, some people are fed up and frustrated and the result of that is the flippant tweet and sign you observe in the OP. That isn't the problem though it's the consequence of not having these discussions enough and not making our push for progress intersectional, expecting minorities to just be there and march lockstep with what white progressives think are the most deserving of their attention. People feel taken for granted that way and pushed to the side that way. So yeah it won't always be nice because we haven't always been nice to each other. Tone policing like you seem to be doing while being on the outside as you admitted isn't helping and I feel your efforts are better spent trying to understand where the frustrations WoC in the OP would have with larger feminism come from.
 
While I haven't participated in the conversations here except for some questions to another guy, I find this interesting.
Don't you think it goes both ways? Black men talking about what black women need? This is a forum, you should expect people to try to participate in the discussion, no need to be aggressive like that, man.
Stop being fragile.
 
What fairy tale world is this? Sometimes both sides don't share the same goal, or anything close to it.
I live in a fairy tale world where I experienced war first hand, in a fairy tale world where family members have been killed by others, just because they follow a different religion, in a fairy tale world where their parents couldn't have a proper funeral for their children, because they didn't know where they died. But my fairy tale world works out for me, because I'm not hating on people with the same roots as the people killing my family but had nothing to do with it. For some strange reason, this really works out.

Honestly, people like you hold back humanity from their real potential. Thanks, mate.
 
I want inclusive and intersectional progressive efforts and that's not going to happen without having these discussions. These discussions will get ugly. It is what it is.

I totally agree that discussion for discussion's sake is good, and I've said as much previously, but that does not mean that how we frame these discussions is irrelevant or that the ugliness can't be mitigated to a degree.

The back and forth in the white fragility thread was good, because it brought attention to a good OP and had people arguing over a worthwhile topic.

In this thread, we have a garbage OP making erroneous, shady claims, and people arguing over a garbage, shady tweet. Yes, there is worthwhile discussion taking place, but it is getting tangled up in and obscured by nonsense that could have easily been avoided.
 

D i Z

Member
While I haven't participated in the conversations here except for some questions to another guy, I find this interesting.
Don't you think it goes both ways? Black men talking about black women need? This is a forum, you can't expect people to try to participate in the discussion, no need to be aggressive like that, man.

Absolutely I think this is the case
. It's truth. The topic never cared much to grow into that direction because it's white focused, and people can't see beyond their own interests.
I will say of the black men that i know in this particular conversation, they are trying to understand how this works on all fronts. Nobody is absolved of doing it wrong. All anybody is asking is that we start to do it right.
 
who are you talking to?

Anyway, some people are fed up and frustrated and the result of that is the flippant tweet and sign you observe in the OP. That isn't the problem though it's the consequence of not having these discussions enough and not making our push for progress intersectional, expecting minorities to just be there and march lockstep with what white progressives think are the most deserving of their attention. People feel taken for granted that way and pushed to the side that way. So yeah it won't always be nice because we haven't always been nice to each other. Tone policing like you seem to be doing while being on the outside as you admitted isn't helping and I feel your efforts are better spent trying to understand where the frustrations WoC in the OP would have with larger feminism come from.
Obviously I didn't specifically mean you, but people here in this thread who literally shit on each other without having respect.
 

ExVicis

Member
who are you talking to?

Anyway, some people are fed up and frustrated and the result of that is the flippant tweet and sign you observe in the OP. That isn't the problem though it's the consequence of not having these discussions enough and not making our push for progress intersectional, expecting minorities to just be there and march lockstep with what white progressives think are the most deserving of their attention. People feel taken for granted that way and pushed to the side that way. So yeah it won't always be nice because we haven't always been nice to each other. Tone policing like you seem to be doing while being on the outside as you admitted isn't helping and I feel your efforts are better spent trying to understand where the frustrations WoC in the OP would have with larger feminism come from.
There's better ways of dealing with frustration though. Having statements that demean people's "fragility" isn't the most productive of them though when you're in a fragile state yourself. Something about glass houses and throwing stones maybe. I'm not sure.

Yes White People have privilege and their fragility in the face of how much even White Women have over Black Women does seem frustrating but has telling someone to stop feeling a certain way ever actually made them stop feeling that way?

When did that happen?
Well I'm implying that you don't agree. Let's start back again where we left off. The thing about trial and error and finding commonalities.

Why do you feel telling White People to "get over their fragility!" will make them lose their fragility? Is this a multi-step process and that's the beginning or is their something you have thought up to actually make them begin to realize Black People have issues they need to recognize?
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
While I haven't participated in the conversations here except for some questions to another guy, I find this interesting.
Don't you think it goes both ways? Black men talking about what black women need? This is a forum, you should expect people to try to participate in the discussion, no need to be aggressive like that, man.
Sure it can go both ways. But there a a difference between speaking on behalf of someone vs speaking for someone. There's a lot of the latter in this thread as evidenced by white women in this very thread being much more understanding than the white men in this thread. Like I feel a lot of dudes in this thread arent in feminist circles, let alone intersectional ones.
 

LionPride

Banned
I live in a fairy tale world where I experienced war first hand, in a fairy tale world where family members have been killed by others, just because they follow a different religion, in a fairy tale world where their parents couldn't have a proper funeral for their children, because they didn't know where they died. But my fairy tale world works out for me, because I'm not hating on people with the same roots as the people killing my family but had nothing to do with it. For some strange reason, this really works out.

Honestly, people like you hold back humanity from their real potential. Thanks, mate.
What does any of what you said have to do, with discussion and how both sides sometimes do not have the same goal in mind? No disrespect, but none of what you said answered my question
 

ExVicis

Member
Sure it can go both ways. But there a a difference between speaking on behalf of someone vs speaking for someone. There's a lot of the latter in this thread as evidenced by white women in this very thread being much more understanding than the white men in this thread. Like I feel a lot of dudes in this thread arent in feminist circles, let alone intersection ones.
I'm trying real hard to speak on behalf of no one except myself, and that is the viewpoint of a Half-Mexican, Half-Black Cis-Male who has received ire and hate from more directions than I would have ever liked to receive that from (White, Black, Mexican, Women, Men, whoever).

So instead of speaking for anyone I'm trying to discuss, why the need for accusatory and angry statements need to be made at White Women in general.
 
Its wack ass posts like this that make this thread unbarable.

I'm right here, let's discuss.

Nah, this shit is as old as America itself

And to an extent so is this discussion. This isn't so far removed from Frederick Douglass and Elizabeth Cady Stanton arguing over whether women or black men should have the right to vote first. Allies don't have to agree, they just have to have each other's backs. The real story is 150 years on and there's still so much inequality.
 

D i Z

Member
There's better ways of dealing with frustration though. Having statements that demean people's "fragility" isn't the most productive of them though when you're in a fragile state yourself. Something about glass houses and throwing stones maybe. I'm not sure.

Yes White People have privilege and their fragility in the face of how much even White Women have over Black Women does seem frustrating but has telling someone to stop feeling a certain way ever actually made them stop feeling that way?


Well I'm implying that you don't agree. Let's start back again where we left off. The thing about trial and error and finding commonalities.

Why do you feel telling White People to "get over their fragility!" will make them lose their fragility? Is this a multi-step process and that's the beginning or is their something you have thought up to actually make them begin to realize Black People have issues they need to recognize?[


Once again, I never said anything to that effect. You have lost your own thread and are arguing with yourself.
 

ExVicis

Member
Once again, I never said anything to that effect. You have lost your own thread and are arguing with yourself.
I'm tired of you beating around the bush with cryptic remarks and and talk of how I have gotten your beliefs wrong while additionally not sharing them.

What is it you actually believe?
 
What does any of what you said have to do, with discussion and how both sides sometimes do not have the same goal in mind? No disrespect, but none of what you said answered my question
Really now? People can keep on hating because things happened in the past or they stop being sad human beings and instead look out for a healthy discussion with respect for each other and some progress. This BS you're spitting "blablabla sometimes there is no common goal blabla" is completely untrue. There is none, because they don't want to. That's the whole problem. You're disrespecting me by not properly thinking about what I write.
 

Dai101

Banned
I dunno the white women who are posting seem to be down for working together and continuing to talk to their fellow white women who voted for Trump.

Of course, that gets lost in the sea of men in this thread talking about it. But that's the nature of GAF's demographics. :p

For real. Holy shit.
 

watershed

Banned
The photo in the OP will definitely create some infighting and by looking at this thread, I am not incorrect.

It has to be brought up, even if it makes some marchers uncomfortable. Feminism cannot succeed in its core goal if white feminists ignore the experiences of women of color. The movement is incomplete without intersectionality.

Even historical feminist narratives of empowerment like Rosie the Riveter have sadly whitewashed the history of black women working in factories during WWII.

http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/black-womens-history-rosie-the-riveter-wasnt-always-white/
 

ExVicis

Member
Really now? People can keep on hating because things happened in the past or they stop being sad human beings and instead look out for a healthy discussion with respect for each other and some progress. This BS you're spitting "blablabla sometimes there is no common goal blabla" is completely untrue. There is none, because they don't want to. That's the whole problem. You're disrespecting me by not properly thinking about what I write.
And it's not as if this kind of shit isn't possible. If the goddamn son of Stormfront's founder can become a progressive liberal then finding common ground is possible.
 

TaterTots

Banned
It has to be brought up, even if it makes some marchers uncomfortable. Feminism cannot succeed in its core goal if white feminists ignore the experiences of women of color. The movement is incomplete without intersectionality.

Even historical feminist narratives of empowerment like Rosie the Riveter have sadly whitewashed the history of black women working in factories during WWII.

http://www.beyondblackwhite.com/black-womens-history-rosie-the-riveter-wasnt-always-white/

I'm not going to disagree with you, but its abundantly clear that there is a big fat elephant in the room not many are speaking of. From browsing GAF and various media sites its became clear that a lot of white people are tired of speeches that make them feel ashamed or partially to blame. In my opinion, this is causing a racial rift. The past election is proof of that and now post election. I believe there is a real guilt there and when confronted with it white people are now screaming, "racist." I don't know how to get past this, but its obvious a way has to be found for progress.
 
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