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Lifeline · May 16, 2017

With the news that Trump was extremely careless with classified information (probably more so than the Hillary Emails controversy), GOP Voter hypocrisy is back on everyone's mind. And one defense of the GOP voter is that the dems would do the same thing. For example: that they forgave Obama for his strikes in Syria, but protested against Trump doing the same.

This reddit comment though kinda put everything in perspective. To rephrase over here:

Democrats:
37% support Trump's Syria strikes
38% supported Obama doing it

Meanwhile...

GOP:
86% support Trump doing it
22% supported Obama doing it

The difference is staggering. Democrats hold by their morals no matter who's in office. Meanwhile The GOP seems to have no strong feelings and will overwhelming change their beliefs to match their leader. You can argue that for the missile strikes the situation has changed, and people have taken current events in Syria into consideration and enough has happened to change their minds. That makes sense.

So here's another example:

White Evangelical Christians 2016 presidential vote:

Clinton: 16%
Trump 81%

Here are the deep-seated morals that White Evangelical Christians held back in 2011 when Obama was in office:

In 2011, 30 percent of white evangelicals said that "an elected official who commits an immoral act in their personal life can still behave ethically and fulfill their duties in their public and professional life."

Makes sense, and I bet most of us here hold the same views. But here's what the White Evangelical Christians believe now that Trump is president:

Now, 72 percent say so — a far bigger swing than other religious groups the poll studied.

It's not just their morals and beliefs that get warped, but their views on facts too. Here's how the GOP viewed the economy back in October.

When GOP voters in Wisconsin were asked last October whether the economy had gotten better or worse ”over the past year," they said ”worse'' — by a margin of 28 points.

Here's how they viewed it last month

But when they were asked the very same question last month, they said ”better" — by a margin of 54 points.
That's a net swing of 82 percentage points between late October 2016 and mid-March 2017.

This isn't just a Trump thing. Nixon enjoyed 76% approval ratings with Republicans a year after Watergate. He resigned with 50% approval rate with Republicans.

All of this makes you wonder though, if it's this easy to change the minds of GOP voters, how difficult would it be to flip their views and morals to the left? Maybe democrats need to run candidates in both the Republican and Democratic primaries next election.

Sunster · May 16, 2017

GOP is poop

Permanently A · May 16, 2017

just give up. its easier

Crocodile · May 16, 2017

I think this graph is from the same Wisconsin poll (from the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel) you are talking about:

There is a strong strain of authoritarianism (follow the leader) in the GOP which probably explains why they were so vulnerable to an authoritarian like Trump.

It also might have something to do with media consumption? This article goes into how the Left tends to consume a greater variety of media sources (moderate and left-wing) whereas the Right almost excusively consumes right-wing media sources.

Jordan117 · May 16, 2017

SolarPowered · May 16, 2017

wow

I'm actually more impressed by how little the support numbers change from Obama to Trump. The GOP results don't surprise me. They're a bunch of snakes.

-Plasma Reus- · May 16, 2017

In every nation you have large groups of people who have no morals. When they take over your institutions because of their behaviour in droves, your institutions cannot recover and you become a failed state.

This isn't hyperbole. You will not recover from this.

Spoiled Milk · May 16, 2017

Lifeline said:
Nixon enjoyed 76% approval ratings with Republicans a year after Watergate. He resigned with 50% approval rate with Republicans.

All of this makes you wonder though, if it's this easy to change the minds of GOP voters, how difficult would it be to flip their views and morals to the left? Maybe democrats need to run candidates in both the Republican and Democratic primaries next election.

Those bastard 1976 Republicans! I wonder where they lived, so I know which states to avoid...

New York: 51.8% Carter, 47.54% Ford

Sunster · May 16, 2017

-Plasma Reus- said:
In every nation you have large groups of people who have no morals. When they take over your institutions because of their behaviour in droves, your institutions cannot recover and you become a failed state.

This isn't hyperbole. You will not recover from this.

we have before though. Reagan era

Foffy · May 16, 2017

Isn't the GOP really a party of authoritarianism, in a modern sense? Likely to believe in a dictator king of the universe, after all.

Makes sense they all bend the knee to their leader, especially when it's the same banner as theirs.

PixelatedBookake · May 16, 2017

I honest to god think the Trump administration is the end of the Republican party. Maybe that's ignorant of me but I can't see how they could possibly recover from this farce. They've shown their asses to the world and what we're seeing isn't pretty.

Foffy · May 16, 2017

PixelatedBookake said:
I honest to god think the Trump administration is the end of the Republican party. Maybe that's ignorant of me but I can't see how they could possibly recover from this farce. They've shown their asses to the world and what we're seeing isn't pretty.

Trump is the new age of the Republican party: a party for neonationalism. It allows them to scapegoat so many present-day issues too, just like Trump did.

Spoiled Milk · May 16, 2017

Foffy said:
Isn't the GOP really a party of authoritarianism, in a modern sense? Likely to believe in a dictator king of the universe, after all.

Makes sense they all bend the knee to their leader, especially when it's the same banner as theirs.

Madman.

PixelatedBookake said:
I honest to god think the Trump administration is the end of the Republican party. Maybe that's ignorant of me but I can't see how they could possibly recover from this farce. They've shown their asses to the world and what we're seeing isn't pretty.

Ford almost won. Also, Reagan.

smokeandmirrors · May 16, 2017

republicans are pieces of shit confirmed.

Kinsei · May 16, 2017

PixelatedBookake said:
I honest to god think the Trump administration is the end of the Republican party. Maybe that's ignorant of me but I can't see how they could possibly recover from this farce. They've shown their asses to the world and what we're seeing isn't pretty.

Why would they care about what the rest of the world thinks when their supporters will always support them?

OrangeGrayBlue · May 16, 2017

Jordan117 said:

What's most confusing about that graph to me is the 10-ish point increase in Putin's favorability among republicans before any of the election meddling happened. That said, does Putin have a more favorable rating among R's than Obama right now? I wouldn't be surprised.

SeanTSC · May 16, 2017

Unfortunately, many "Good Christians" are pretty much just massive hypocrites and the GoP's base is largely invested in a very dangerous form of Tribalism and fucking The Others. Science, Data, and Facts are also irrelevant to them unless it helps their "team" win.

And that's all that matters to them - winning. Doesn't matter how much their representatives continue to hurt them and fuck them over just as long as those dirty liburals get whats coming to them.

You can't reason with shit like that and it's not going away anytime soon.

BrutishMrFish · May 16, 2017

Sunster said:
we have before though. Reagan era

We really haven't recovered from Reagan. He fucked up labor unions, put us on the path to the Great Recession through his push for deregulation, and further increased the divide between the rich and the poor that we still see today thanks to his popular "bootstraps" ideology.

Not · May 16, 2017

Can't find the link to the Reddit comment.

Youngfossil · May 16, 2017

This is getting really depressing

Lightning_Roller · May 16, 2017

smokeandmirrors said:
republicans are pieces of shit confirmed.

They've always been. Every last one of them.

Eidan · May 16, 2017

OrangeGrayBlue said:
What's most confusing about that graph to me is the 10-ish point increase in Putin's favorability among republicans before any of the election meddling happened.

The GOP had been talking up Putin for a while as an example of a strong leader versus Obama, who was a weak willed traitor.

Snaku · May 16, 2017

Listen with your heart, you will understand.

OrangeGrayBlue · May 16, 2017

Spoiled Milk said:
Madman.

Ford almost won. Also, Reagan.

This post kinda contradicts your last one. You already posted the electoral results showing that the democrats of 40+ years ago are essentially the Republicans of today (thanks southern strategy). So invoking the support for FDR in the 30's/40's doesn't really refute anything we're seeing here.

Eidan said:
The GOP had been talking up Putin for a while as an example of a strong leader versus Obama, who was a weak willed traitor.

ah, right. He's been so closely affiliated with Trump recently that I forgot he was already being used as the GOP's Man Crush Monday for like a year prior.

Lifeline · May 16, 2017

Not said:
Can't find the link to the Reddit comment.

Forgot to add the link, it's up there now.

mlclmtckr · May 16, 2017

OrangeGrayBlue said:
What's most confusing about that graph to me is the 10-ish point increase in Putin's favorability among republicans before any of the election meddling happened. That said, does Putin have a more favorable rating among R's than Obama right now? I wouldn't be surprised.

Right wing political cartoons and talk radio have been in love with Putin for like eight years. They think he is a tough and bold daddy figure / 'strong leader' who ran circles around Obama on the world stage.

These people want a strongman.

Aaron Strife · May 16, 2017

mlclmtckr said:
Right wing political cartoons and talk radio have been in love with Putin for like eight years. They think he is a tough and bold daddy figure / 'strong leader' who ran circles around Obama on the world stage.

These people want a strongman.

Which is funny because I'm pretty sure Russia isn't doing too hot economically.

Style over substance, at all times.

OrangeGrayBlue · May 16, 2017

mlclmtckr said:
Right wing political cartoons and talk radio have been in love with Putin for like eight years. They think he is a tough and bold daddy figure / 'strong leader' who ran circles around Obama on the world stage.

These people want a strongman.

Ironic considering that he's actually running circles around the current president, whom they overwhelmingly support. So I think there's more to it than the strongman stuff, but that's certainly an aspect of it.

Spoiled Milk · May 16, 2017

OrangeGrayBlue said:
This post kinda contradicts your last one. You already posted the electoral results showing that the democrats of 40+ years ago are essentially the Republicans of today (thanks southern strategy). So invoking the support for FDR in the 30's/40's doesn't really refute anything we're seeing here.

Fair. I was really just trying to point out that parties change and talking about Nixon and "modern Republicans" (who are not a homogenous bloc in any way) is meaningless.

NobleXenon · May 16, 2017

Like I said; Trump could Piss, Shit, and Cum in the mouths of conservative; as long as liberals have to see/smell it; conservatives wouldn't mind it at all.

OrangeGrayBlue · May 16, 2017

Spoiled Milk said:
Fair. I was really just trying to point out that parties change and talking about Nixon and "modern Republicans" (who are not a homogenous bloc in any way) is meaningless.

I see the point. Give it time and maybe new issues (automation, artificial intelligence, whatever) will cause another party realignment. But at the crux of this, the same *type* of person will have the same ideological/moral flexibility and this issue will persist regardless of party affiliation. For this block of time, though, the people overwhelmingly willing to submit to some authoritarian leader seem to side with the GOP.

BoboBrazil · May 16, 2017

Republicans are brainwashed by Fox News. Their views go along with whatever Fox News wants them to think. They also tend to be the less educated so they are easier to fool.

Nepenthe · May 16, 2017

Duh.

We all know the Republican party is about theocratic authoritarianism and straight white identity politics.

The issue is Republicans themselves trying to spin this shit as being for the good of the country, so anything they can take as a victory they will regardless of whether or not that results in some semblance of ideological consistency.

SolarPowered · May 16, 2017

Sunster said:
we have before though. Reagan era

We never recovered from the Reagan era.

Septimus Prime · May 16, 2017

mlclmtckr said:
Right wing political cartoons and talk radio have been in love with Putin for like eight years. They think he is a tough and bold daddy figure / 'strong leader' who ran circles around Obama on the world stage.

These people want a strongman.

Here's a very simplified view of things that I think makes a lot of sense:

Democrats see the government as a nurturing mother. When you need help, she's there for you.

Republicans see the government as a strict father. Father knows best. When you fuck up, you get punished.

Poor GRIMES · May 16, 2017

Whiteness.

Abinash117 · May 16, 2017

I think it is part because in more traditional or conservative cultures, you tend to follow the leader and question authority less likely( it kind of depends as they don't tend to respect certain people in office like Obama). At the same time I believe GOP voters are more partisan than Democratic voter and is willing to throw away certain values and principles to get what it is they want.

Democrats and liberals sometimes I think view themselves has the high moral good guys, so they care far more about optics than scoring political wins. GOP are the opposite not because they think themselves as villains( no one really thinks that of themselves) they are more concerned about winning.

However, I don't think it is that simple and it really depends on what they are willing to throw away. When it comes to Trump voters. One group is probably the more college educated, business-mind, wealthier, and professional GOP voter. They are more likely to support the establishment GOP, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't vote for a none traditional Republican like Trump. They would probably like the fact that he isn't that way, however I do not think this group is very loyal. What Trump is doing very much annoys them, but not enough to abandon him.

One other group are the ones that are more paloconservative, far more anti-establishment, more nationalistic, and more supportive of social government programs. This group will still support Trump even if he do things that aren't acceptable. As long as he does some of things he says he will do( bring back the jobs that was part of their community for years) and protect the things that they like( SS and medicare). He can do whatever .

Angelus Errare · May 16, 2017

Sunster said:
we have before though. Reagan era

We definitely have not seeing as Reaganomics is still presented as a real economic strategy, and you know the whole racist as fuck "war on drugs" that started under Nixon and went into overdrive under Reagan.

OrangeGrayBlue · May 16, 2017

Angelus Errare said:
We definitely have not seeing as Reaganomics is still presented as a real economic strategy, and you know the whole racist as fuck "war on drugs" that started under Nixon and went into overdrive under Reagan.

And hyper-warpdrive under Clinton. Obama was really the only time we pumped the brakes on our tough-on-crime policies in the last 30+ years.

MattKeil · May 16, 2017

BrutishMrFish said:
We really haven't recovered from Reagan. He fucked up labor unions, put us on the path to the Great Recession through his push for deregulation, and further increased the divide between the rich and the poor that we still see today thanks to his popular "bootstraps" ideology.

Don't forget his dismantling of the national mental health care system, which has impacted millions of lives in tremendously negative ways in the decades since.

yanipheonu · May 16, 2017

Confirmation bias is a hell of a drug.

Brandon F · May 16, 2017

When sound judgment and rationality are not factored into your decision-making, you are just asking to be taken advantage of.

DavidDesu · May 16, 2017

It's cos they're stupid cunts. Mostly cunts, but stupid ones. Cunts first and foremost though. Small minded bigoted easily led fucknuggets.

I H8 Memes · May 16, 2017

Sunster said:
we have before though. Reagan era

Todays Republicans are nothing like 80's or 90's Republicans. A Reagan Republican couldnt get elected today.

Htown · May 16, 2017

to them nothing matters but "us vs them"

if you're a liberal, you are literally the enemy

you aren't just different politically, you're immoral/evil

it doesn't matter what Trump does or what happens under his administration

he's on the right side, so everything he does is right

proto · May 16, 2017

Maybe I should just switch my party affiliation to republican and just carry on as normal. Telling people "Yes, I'm a Republican, but I support Obamacare because I think it's a worthwhile cause to support Americans with no affordable access to healthcare."

"Yes, I'm Republican, I support women's reproductive rights because I think women should be able to think twice before bringing a new life into this god forsaken world of ours."

"Yes, I'm a Republican, I support Gay marriage because I think that this is America goddammit, if you wanna marry someone you love, then go for it and god bless."

And finally "Yes, I'm a Republican, THOSE GODDAMN LIBERALS CAN LICK MY DIRTY ASSHOLE".

Then in the next election we put in a Democratic candidate as a trojan horse Republican and win GG EZ.

LegendofJoe · May 16, 2017

-Plasma Reus- said:
In every nation you have large groups of people who have no morals. When they take over your institutions because of their behaviour in droves, your institutions cannot recover and you become a failed state.

This isn't hyperbole. You will not recover from this.

This is why I'm in favor of the country breaking apart. Unless the roughly 45% of the population that doesn't care to get involved suddenly changes course and decides to give a damn the US has no future.

Journeywalker · May 16, 2017

LegendofJoe said:
This is why I'm in favor of the country breaking apart. Unless the roughly 45% of the population that doesn't care to get involved suddenly changes course and decides to give a damn the US has no future.

This won't work because cities tend to lean Democrat while rural areas lean Republican.

Brawly Likes to Brawl · May 16, 2017

Their moral compass now is basically, "do liberals hate it? then it's good!".

Lord Frieza · May 16, 2017

LegendofJoe said:
This is why I'm in favor of the country breaking apart. Unless the roughly 45% of the population that doesn't care to get involved suddenly changes course and decides to give a damn the US has no future.

If only it were so simple. Could you imagine 'red states' becoming their own country? LGBTs folks and minorities would face persecution not seen since the 1800s, if not outright genocide

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