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The Atlantic: 'The Real Reasons for Marvel Comics Woes'
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
BoogieWoogie
Banned
I'm glad they touched on this shit. Try to act like fucking professionals every once in awhile.
Byakuya769
Member
Doesn't Nick Spencer write Captain America: Sam Wilson?
Are they talking about his handling of Jewish concerns with Hydra Cap?
Are they talking about his handling of Jewish concerns with Hydra Cap?
ShadowSwordmaster
Banned
It's about Hydra Cap.
LinkAndEpona
Banned
The comics are too expensive, all the different events are annoying to keep up with, and the story and dialogs are terrible to cringeworthy especially when personal politics are forced in.
VeryGooster
Banned
Damn Bronx-Man beat me to that part but lol
Lord Frieza
Member
I mean, didn't one of the Marvel editors actually pretty much say this, too, though?
Sgt. Kabukiman
Banned
Constant relaunches, all-encompassing events, extremely high prices, etc. We all know why the comics side of Marvel isn't doing great.
We need the return of the Dynamic Duo: Jemas and Quesada.
I was hopeful about the recent X-Men relaunch but... Yeah.
Nova is still great though.
We need the return of the Dynamic Duo: Jemas and Quesada.
Well, maybe not, but I liked that era.
Nova is still great though.
2 reasons people are mad
1 MCU blew up Cap's stock
2 Hydra Cap hits too close to reality.
usually for people not reading the story
LordRaptor
Member
The problem is hardcore comics collectors are the "whales" and are really vocally against doing most of the things that comics really should be doing to not be entirely dependent upon those self-same "whales" (who are a shrinking audience anyway).
Yeah the way DC and Marvel run their superhero lines are awful. I love superhero movies, cartoon and live action show but I don't read a single DC or Marvel superhero book. They have way too many superhero comics with too many crossovers and ongoing stories I don't want to start after hundreds of issues. I was excited for DC restarting everything at #1 a couple of years ago but it was just a number reboot not a story reboot. I'm sure the move to only selling to direct retailers influenced a lot of the way they handle these books.
I do love reading stuff like Saga and Walking Dead.
I do love reading stuff like Saga and Walking Dead.
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
The arts been shit, the writings been shit, and even the selection of titles allowed to exist have been shit. Events entered into a level ruining all publisher wide content that it was beyond parody.
All while their properties slay at the Box Office because they're written by talented people and not hacks squatting on properties "because they've been here forever". Bendis is done, Slott is done. And yet it continues.
Oddly enough as well, a stink of desperation has fouled even the few bright stars of their lineup. I enjoyed Ms Marvel when she was allowed her low key origin story, but then was immediately turned off as soon as she was schooling Wolverine, Spider-Man, becoming an Avenger and more. There's no room for developing these characters over the decades anymore organically.
After Secret Wars it is still baffling to me they didn't just take that hard and easy reboot. Instead it feels like its more of a mess than ever.
All while their properties slay at the Box Office because they're written by talented people and not hacks squatting on properties "because they've been here forever". Bendis is done, Slott is done. And yet it continues.
Oddly enough as well, a stink of desperation has fouled even the few bright stars of their lineup. I enjoyed Ms Marvel when she was allowed her low key origin story, but then was immediately turned off as soon as she was schooling Wolverine, Spider-Man, becoming an Avenger and more. There's no room for developing these characters over the decades anymore organically.
After Secret Wars it is still baffling to me they didn't just take that hard and easy reboot. Instead it feels like its more of a mess than ever.
Tallshortman
Member
The fact marvel has so many big crossover events which on average seem to be just bad is what helped push me out of reading them and comics in general for a while.
BoogieWoogie
Banned
Yeah pretty much this, also it seems like a lot of Marvel's decisions are to appease to the "Tumblr" crowd, who don't buy comics anyway.
Its also definitely a cost issue. Doesn't DC pretty much charge $2.99 across the board?
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
Twitter was a bad thing for comic book writers.I wonder how some of them manage to get any work done at all with the amount they tweet.
Comics literally started from personal poltics. New York jews wanting a powerful figure against nazism, and a guy that invented the lie detactor wanting a sybol of feminsim, etc
And he retracted
This to
Yes.
Even if you accept that perspective as valid, though, you can say that it's sort of a symptom rather than a cause (since the comics aren't attracting new fans to replace the ones upset about the added diversity or burning out on all the other issues mentioned.)
As for me, comics haven't made economic sense since I had enough money to buy the trade collected versions of comics for half the price or less of however much buying first-run issues that take up more space cost. Even if they fix all their other issues, that's always going to be an audience limiter.
(And yeah the entertainment value of a comic versus how much you could blow notwithstanding. It still gets pricey fast.)
JimiNutz
Banned
Personally, I don't read comics because I hate the way that they are released. A single comic is barely any content. You read it in a few mins and then wait a whole month or more for your next scrap of story.
Either release them more often or realease then 6 monthly with much more content so that each is a mini novel.
Either release them more often or realease then 6 monthly with much more content so that each is a mini novel.
Mostly by people for whom fair representation in media isn't typically an issue.
I'm glad they touched on this
I honestly do think Marvel needs to offer some type of social media guidance/training. It's a new world for a lot of folks, but a lot of their talent handle it in the worst possible way.
Especially those who go LOOKING for fights
IIRC it was the Marvel VP making that statement at an event for the more traditional comic demographic, which he then contradicted in a later statement. So it doesn't come across as much more than cynical PR pandering.
Rollo Tomasi
Member
This contributes mainly to why I have stopped reading Marvel. I only keep tabs on the ongoing overarching story lines and maybe will check out a big crossover here and there, like Secret Empire. Otherwise, I can't be bothered.
The Broken Ska Record
Member
They have that. They are called trades. They combine a few issues together. It's how I read a lot of my stuff. I rarely get single issues anymore.
CitizenVectron
Member
I am a person who should be their prime target:
- 32 years old
- Disposable income
- Into the MCU movies and other stuff like it
However, I have no intention of wading through the layers of bullshit they have accumulated over the years. I want to invest in a long-running story and character(s), not have to figure out which 18 different series I need to piece together along with various cross-over events.
- 32 years old
- Disposable income
- Into the MCU movies and other stuff like it
However, I have no intention of wading through the layers of bullshit they have accumulated over the years. I want to invest in a long-running story and character(s), not have to figure out which 18 different series I need to piece together along with various cross-over events.
Probably has more to do with his response to Spencer being punched, where he complained that one shouldn't punch Nazis.
In addition, he appears to have run for City Council as a Republican, focused on "broken window" policing, which is often seen as racially focused.
There's some other stuff if you want to go digging, but it's largely focused on his 2003-2005 period when he was railing about "thugs" in his Cleveland town.
BoogieWoogie
Banned
Yeah, Slott for example actively punches in his own name on Twitter and attacks people who criticize him. It's some childish shit.
VeryGooster
Banned
Funny thing is I'm mostly a trades person too and yet apparently the industry is just that badly designed that even buying trades does little if anything for the creative teams.
Aren't all of these the exact same points that were brought up in that Marvel Twine essay?
Supa Necta
Banned
When I was a kid I spent my own allowance on print subscriptions by mail. I think they ran between $10-$12/year. I just checked online and most subscriptions are close to $30/year. I'm not sure why they don't boost their circulation numbers by offering cheap subscriptions like most other forms of print media.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
A trade costs 20-25 (25 for Marvel now really) and takes 30 minutes to an hour to read. You can look right across the aisle at the Sci-Fi/Fantasy book section and find tons of books that cost 8 bucks and take days/weeks to read. It's definitely a problem.
BoogieWoogie
Banned
Oh man, the stories I could tell you about Spencer. This is just the tip of the iceberg.
Tatsumaki Senpuukyaku!
Member
You knew him before he got into comics?
Sarcastic Poster
Member
I love comics but I read almost no Marvel or DC series. Fuck following something that gets rebooted every few years, is dragged into shitty events and tries to tie every fucking comic into some terribly convoluted arc. I only really read self-contained stuff, graphic novels etc.
Yeah, I haven't bothered digging much deeper than that, but I gather he's a piece of work.
If Marvel had a Shounen Jump-equivalent, I would subscribe to it. A big monthly book with several ongoing series, and one-offs from other series to fill out pages and act as a teaser for what I am missing by not buying other series. I'm just not interested in the way they publish.
The Broken Ska Record
Member
A hardcover trade, yeah. Depending on the number of issues they can be cheaper. And Amazon has them on digital for cheaper still.
Not a perfect solution, but it works still.
broncobuster
Banned
Honestly, it'd be easy to look past Slott being a bad person if his work spoke for itself.
LordRaptor
Member
Okay, so some of the problems with waiting for trades are:
- they come out long after any decisions on if a books getting cancelled or not have been made
- books now 'write for trades' which means you don't have any scope for fill-in issues so any delays tend to mean delaying the whole book, doubling down on the sales issues that leads to stuff getting cancelled in the first place
- 'writing for trades' means effectively writing for a fixed 6-issue arc (a.k.a a miniseries), but then individual issues suffer from being part of an arc and not a standalone story (which means a new reader who wants to pick up GOTG because that film was pretty cool or whatever) is likely picking up part 3 of 6 of a storyline and has no clue wtf is going on and nothing gets resolved
I mean, some writers are a lot better than others in writing arcs, but its a very different format to writing a serial where you can expect a reader to jump in at any point and be able to catch up fairly easily
By the time that the Trade comes out, the comic could already be dead. Comics live and die by their pre-orders which start ~3 months before the individual issues even make it to shelves. So you have a an announced artist/writer/colorist and a short 1-2 sentence description of the comic, then you have to pre-order based on that months in advance.
If new comics with different names (meaning they can't piggyback off of older subscriptions.
e.g. being subscribed to "Black Panther" will not carry over to the new "Black Panther and the Crew") don't do well before the first issue has even made it to store shelves then the entire new comic run is already doomed.
Putting aside big picture issues like the overall ailing nature of the comics industry, shady business practices like needless overshipping, the isolation of the Fantastic Four and the X-Men, and constant reboots/renumbering/relaunches... as someone who still reads SOME Marvel comics occassionally they need new blood at both a creative and editorial level badly
All the books I read from DC right now are written by people who I wasn't reading five years ago. Without exception. Although in Priest's case that was because he wasn't writing any comics a five years ago, so...
All the books I read from DC right now are written by people who I wasn't reading five years ago. Without exception. Although in Priest's case that was because he wasn't writing any comics a five years ago, so...
Hari Seldon
Member
If they want to boost sales, put the fucking things in supermarkets and target them to 8 year olds. It is fine to have adult comics, but the superhero stuff should not be that.