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How the Wii was lost (Wii sells ~1m in December in U.S.; BOMBA)

donny2112

Member
Wii sold 4.5m YTD in U.S. Using NPD totals through November, that puts it at 1-1.2m depending on which numbers from the PR you use. Little bit of a question with mixing internal Nintendo numbers with NPD, but should be close to final NPD numbers. Regardless, Wii totally bombed in December in U.S. (compared to historical expectations from itself and PS2's gradual decline).

See the below graph of PS2/Wii December NPD totals in the U.S. You can see that Wii was held back initially by shortages before exploding in December 2009 in its first Christmas with 1) price drop and 2) (most importantly) availability.

PS2WII_Dec_US.png


However instead of trailing off gradually as PS2 did, it is nosediving. Yes, a lot of this is due to lack of games from Nintendo/third-parties, but I think it is much more to do with Nintendo foolishly keeping the Wii price in the U.S. too high for too long. It's first price drop was to $200 in September 2009, and then in December 2009 (4th December for Wii), Wal-Mart sold Wiis @ $200 with a $50 Gift Card for the entire month essentially bringing the price to $150 for the hottest/hardest to get Christmas item three years running. Wal-Mart + Christmas = major sales. Again, availability was still probably the more driving factor for sales in December 2009, though.

December 2010 (5th December for Wii) was the second Christmas @ $200. Very substantial decline due to comparing to December 2009, but still a very good absolute total. Note: PS2's shortage in its 5th December was due to the transition to the PSTwo/Slim model. Near complete sellouts that Christmas, which pushed a lot of sales into January-March, as PS2 was ~500K up YOY in Jan-Mar 2005 compared to Jan-Mar 2004.

Now we get to this Christmas (6th December for Wii), and we see a ridiculous dropoff for the system. ~55% YOY drop for Wii in December. And it's not that the system can't sell. Nintendo sold ~ as many Wii's this Black Friday as they did the previous Black Friday. So what happened?

WII_BF_WM2011.jpg


$99 Wii happened. What does this tell us? The $150 market for Wii is essentially dried up, but there's still a fairly hungry market for the system @ $99. Why isn't the Wii already @ $99? Nintendo. They rode the sellout wave for 2.5 years, and so were late, and continue to be late, in dropping the price of the system.
On the software side, it took them forever to introduce a Player's Choice lineup to drop the price on their first-party games, too. Nintendo is just way late with price drops in general this generation on the console side.

Nintendo used to be much more about the budget-minded consumer. Recognizing the stagnant state of GameCube, they dropped it to $99 in its third Christmas with an extensive Player's Choice line. Obviously success went to Nintendo's head this generation with pricing on the console side, but hopefully the performance of Wii in its later years and the 3DS pricing debacle will lead to a better plan with Wii U.
 

TheNatural

My Member!
They're probably not going to introduce $99 pricing until next year. This isn't just Nintendo though really, the 360 and PS3 still haven't hit great budget pricing. This generation has sucked ass for budget gaming.

That being said, there were a lot of great retailer deals this holiday to essentially get it down to the pricing it should be. I finally got a Wii for $125 at Toys R Us with a $25 gift card, essentially making it $100.

Plus saying one mil plus in a month where the console is in it's late decline phase is bombing isn't accurate IMO. The releases have completely dried up and I'm surprised it isn't doing worse to be honest.
 

-COOLIO-

The Everyman
They're probably not going to introduce $99 pricing until next year. This isn't just Nintendo though really, the 360 and PS3 still haven't hit great budget pricing. This generation has sucked ass for budget gaming.

That being said, there were a lot of great retailer deals this holiday to essentially get it down to the pricing it should be. I finally got a Wii for $125 at Toys R Us with a $25 gift card, essentially making it $100.

Plus saying one mil plus in a month where the console is in it's late decline phase is bombing isn't accurate IMO. The releases have completely dried up and I'm surprised it isn't doing worse to be honest.

apart from console prices prices its never been better. game and pc hardware costs have been incredibly economical
 
They're probably not going to introduce $99 pricing until next year. This isn't just Nintendo though really, the 360 and PS3 still haven't hit great budget pricing. This generation has sucked ass for budget gaming.

That being said, there were a lot of great retailer deals this holiday to essentially get it down to the pricing it should be. I finally got a Wii for $125 at Toys R Us with a $25 gift card, essentially making it $100.

Plus saying one mil plus in a month where the console is in it's late decline phase is bombing isn't accurate IMO. The releases have completely dried up and I'm surprised it isn't doing worse to be honest.

Although you may be right at least in terms of hardware, in terms of software this is the very first generation to invent the idea of budget gaming that simply isn't "wait till the gens over and buy used."

And I also find it extremely strange how people are shrugging this off because Nintendo is gonna push the Wii-U. I guess they better change that name...and not bother with motion controls as a selling point and reinvent the Wii-U too while they're at it. Then people shrugging off the decline of the Wii because of the Wii-U might have a point.
 

Hero

Member
Wii U will be premium-priced for the HD market/crowd Fall 2012. 99$ Wii will be for the super casuals.
 
They're probably not going to introduce $99 pricing until next year. This isn't just Nintendo though really, the 360 and PS3 still haven't hit great budget pricing. This generation has sucked ass for budget gaming.

That being said, there were a lot of great retailer deals this holiday to essentially get it down to the pricing it should be. I finally got a Wii for $125 at Toys R Us with a $25 gift card, essentially making it $100.

Plus saying one mil plus in a month where the console is in it's late decline phase is bombing isn't accurate IMO. The releases have completely dried up and I'm surprised it isn't doing worse to be honest.

It's a relative bomb is what he is saying though, like FF XIII - 2 in Japan, 500k sales for 2 days is pretty huge except for a series which has consistantly sold double or triple that for over a decade.
 

iceatcs

Junior Member
Hopefully Wii U tablet could change the value viewpoint. Nintendo can't afford to reduce price too early again if they want $250+ at launch.
 
The only problem I have with this assessment is that the Wii dropped to $149 just this May. Two price drops in a year for a first place console that just had a monster Christmas is unheard of.

The problem the Wii had in 2011 was games. It's not that Nintendo's games were suddenly no good, there just weren't any of them all year long. Wii owners had about 9 months of Zumba Fitness and Just Dance 2 as the "hot" titles to own. The buzz died and so did their console sales, at least until Just Dance 3 came out.
 
Which will happen first: a Wii price drop or an Xbox 360 price drop? I guess the Wii would benefit more, but the 360 seems long overdue.
 

Remfin

Member
You need to come on over to CAG. This gen has been great for budget gaming if you know where to look.
Not particularly...$20 console gaming "deals" are still 4x or more what you can end up paying on PC, and the old $1 clearance bins have pretty much disappeared from what I can tell.
 

legend166

Member
I still think it's the games more than the price.

Once it was clear around mid 2009 that no matter what, the third party support simply was not coming no matter how many millions it sold, this was always going to happen.

Games sell hardware. This has always been the case and it will always be the case. It's why the Wii sold so well in the first place and it's why the 360 is selling so well now. The weight (or lack thereof) of support for both consoles lead to the situation we're in today.
 

freddy

Banned
There's just barely any games coming out for the system. At this point in its lifetime the PS2 was getting tons of games coming out weekly. Price has little to do with anything here.
 
Not particularly...$20 console gaming "deals" are still 4x or more what you can end up paying on PC, and the old $1 clearance bins have pretty much disappeared from what I can tell.

1) Steam didn't exist last gen, so I don't know if it's fair to compare current gen deals to Steam deals (which are awesome, of course).

2) I rarely pay $20 or more for console games. Best gaming deal of 2011 for me was the overlapping Gamefly sale and coupon code. Homefront, Brink, Red Faction: Armageddon, and The First Templar for about $7 shipped total. Mostly shitty games, yeah, but $7!
 

Big-ass Ramp

hella bullets that's true
still weird to me that the Wii had so many shortages, especially when compared to the PS2. I can understand how the DVD optical drives held up the PS2, but even when the Wii was brand new, it was running on old ass hardware. If Nintendo seriously wasn't trying to create fake supply shortages, they need to revamp their assembly process.
 

TheNatural

My Member!
You need to come on over to CAG. This gen has been great for budget gaming if you know where to look.

I know where to look, and I can get lots of deals. I'm speaking in terms of new consoles and MSRP. I don't think the ability to get deals is any different than last generation where you could do the same, except that this generation is longer so there's going to be more cycles of discount games.
 

Somnid

Member
still weird to me that the Wii had so many shortages, especially when compared to the PS2. I can understand how the DVD optical drives held up the PS2, but even when the Wii was brand new, it was running on old ass hardware. If Nintendo seriously wasn't trying to create fake supply shortages, they need to revamp their assembly process.

The rate of production at one point was higher than any console ever.
 

Lijik

Member
apart from console prices prices its never been better. game and pc hardware costs have been incredibly economical

Yep!
Theres less consistent general bargain bin deals, but theres been way more one off deals this gen like in the Steam Holiday sales.
 
PS2 had no competition that late in its life really. Wii has a resurgent 360 eating up sales

EDIT: I should clarify by what I mean about 360. I think Kinect is the new "Wii fad". Purely anecdotal, but a few friends I know (mostly girls) who had bought a Wii, no longer use it, but now have 360's and have Kinect Parties with the Dance Central and what not.
 

JGS

Banned
Wholly expect Wii to be 99.99 (Maybe 129.99 which is a mistake) come the end of the quarter. It's the right price to have it at and it will sell for years to come at that price.

It was stupid to get drop Wii Sports too. They're losing money off Mario Kart sales and the price is too high.
 

Dalthien

Member
Nintendo used to be much more about the budget-minded consumer. Recognizing the stagnant state of GameCube, they dropped it to $99 in its third Christmas with an extensive Player's Choice line. Obviously success went to Nintendo's head this generation with pricing on the console side, but hopefully the performance of Wii in its later years and the 3DS pricing debacle will lead to a better plan with Wii U.
It really depends what their profits are per Wii. If they are hovering somewhere around $50 per Wii right now, then dropping to $100 can't really be justified financially. It's too late in the generation to recoup that money. (Of course, if they are sitting at something closer to $80 profit per Wii sold (hardware only), then it becomes easier to justify a $50 drop - assuming that the corresponding boost in sales is large enough).

Let's just assume (for no reason other than some back of the napkin calculations) that they are currently somewhere around $50 profit per Wii. Then you would basically be asking them to replace a million sales (Dec) at $50M profit for maybe 2 million sales at break-even.
Considering that the WiiU is coming in less than a year, and that Wii software releases look incredibly thin for 2012 - there's no chance to recoup that lost income. In other words, there's no point in the drop.

In order to recoup that money, Nintendo would have to make $25 back in software sales from each of those 2M units sold in December (and that's assuming that a $99 price would move that many units - the average software profits per user would jump up to almost $35 if the hardware was only boosted to 1.5M) And keep in mind that that $25-$35 per user is in addition to all of the software which was sold to the 1M people who just bought the system at $150. And all of that is just to get back to the same place financially that they would have been if they just kept the system at $150 instead of dropping to $99.

Keep in mind that Nintendo probably takes in about $8 per full-priced 3rd-party title. And that drops quite a bit as we get down to the $20 budget titles which account for a big chunk of Wii's software these days. Not to mention that a portion of those Wiis sold now will go straight to the piracy route and forgo software altogether - and another sizable chunk of them will go raid the bargain used section of Wii stuff at Gamestop or the bargain bins of other retailers.

Where Nintendo can help make up some of that is with their 1st-party stuff, but there isn't much new 1st-party stuff coming before the WiiU, and the 1st-party stuff that would likely sell the most to people picking up the Wii this late in the gen would be the Nintendo Selects stuff, which is budget stuff which results in a much smaller take for Nintendo.

It's just hard to find the financial justification for a price drop this late in the generation unless Nintendo is currently sitting on something much higher than $50 profit per unit.

The Gamecube example was much easier to justify from Nintendo's standpoint. They expected another 3 full years out of the Cube at that point, so there was ample time left to increase the userbase and recoup the price drop with software sales over a 3-year period. The Wii software ecosystem (for new stuff) is pretty much already dead, and the Wii U is expected in something like 9-10 months.

But you may very well see a $99 Wii as we get closer to the WiiU, just to help clear out any excess capacity (both hardware and software) in the channels as the new system is getting closer.
 

regs

Member
I also think that the casual market that the Wii dominated had a sizable chunk taken out by Apple
 
The rate of production at one point was higher than any console ever.

Hell the Wii holds the record for every month of the year methinks in unit sales. Nintendo was selling in a month worldwide what Sony and MS were selling for a fiscal quarter. At one time unit sales were really really one sided. On a scale the PS2 didn't see. Which was saying a lot because the second place console was doing a lot better than the last gen second placer.

I say this a lot but publishers, developers, and Nintendo screwed the pooch with the Wii. Nintendo by not trying to money out some exclusives, and pubs for not spending big money making sure a huge thriving market with cheap to dev for hardware stayed at the top.

The pace that system was selling at makes the 360 rebound look quaint in comparison.
 

regs

Member
Or rather Kinect.

Excellent point, I forgot to mention that also. My Mother who actually owned a Wii bought an Xbox Kinect Bundle this year.

So a lot of people who wanted a Wii would have already gotten one, and the ones who don't have one yet want an iPad or a Kinect.
 

Shig

Strap on your hooker ...
I really agree with putting some blame here on Nintendo's reluctance to do a proper Greatest Hits line. There is an unbelievable amount of shit on the Wii, yet Nintendo has displayed no great interest in helping customers separate the wheat from the chaff, stingily keeping the GH line to only a very anemic selection of their own first-party games instead of applying it more liberally and inclusively. Every time people get burned by a game, the less they think of your system and the lower their chance of continuing to buy games for it. Good third party games kept in circulation with an easily identifiable seal of quality would have been real good medicine for the Wii's perception and long-term viability.

Same applies to DS. 7 years and no GH line, what the hell?
 
I know where to look, and I can get lots of deals. I'm speaking in terms of new consoles and MSRP. I don't think the ability to get deals is any different than last generation where you could do the same, except that this generation is longer so there's going to be more cycles of discount games.

Live/PSN, all kinds of amazing great games at budget prices.
 

farnham

Banned
Nintendo should try to put out more Wii xxx titles especially Wii Fit 3 and Wii Sports 3.

They should drop the price to 99 dollar asap and add old titles to their current players choice line up

that said i dont think they bombed. the company kinda abandoned the wii and shifted their focus on 3ds (especially 3ds in japan) and they are preparing a strong wii u launch. they are just not that interested in keeping wii alive. sad but true.

they have a lot of already finished titles that they could bring over to NA with little effort

xenoblade (which is kinda comming)
taiko no tatsujin (which is already finished and widely successful in japan and could be remarketed with all the music craze.. hell why not try to reignite the Donkey konga brand)
Last story (already in english)
Pandoras Tower (already in english)
Fatal Frame 4 (not in english but its really not a long game)


they just dont have any interest in doing so
 

JJConrad

Sucks at viral marketing
Wii sold 4.5m YTD in U.S. Using NPD totals through November, that puts it at 1-1.2m depending on which numbers from the PR you use. Little bit of a question with mixing internal Nintendo numbers with NPD, but should be close to final NPD numbers. Regardless, Wii totally bombed in December in U.S. (compared to historical expectations from itself and PS2's gradual decline).

See the below graph of PS2/Wii December NPD totals in the U.S. You can see that Wii was held back initially by shortages before exploding in December 2009 in its first Christmas with 1) price drop and 2) (most importantly) availability.

PS2WII_Dec_US.png


//snip//

Nintendo used to be much more about the budget-minded consumer. Recognizing the stagnant state of GameCube, they dropped it to $99 in its third Christmas with an extensive Player's Choice line. Obviously success went to Nintendo's head this generation with pricing on the console side, but hopefully the performance of Wii in its later years and the 3DS pricing debacle will lead to a better plan with Wii U.
Couldn't wait a week to make this? What do you do if it sells something closer to 1.5 million?
 
It'll almost certainly go down to $99.99 next year. I agree that it's too little too late at this point though. The only problem though is that once they go down to $99.99, they can't really go any lower (going down to $79.99 is a pointless gesture and going down to $49.99 makes it the same price as a game!)

The whole of the Wii's life is one big missed opportunity really. Such a shame that things turned out the way they did.
 

Staab

Member
Hopefully Wii U tablet could change the value viewpoint. Nintendo can't afford to reduce price too early again if they want $250+ at launch.

Very interesting point to me, with the tablet market in full swing I could see Nintendo having a huge success even at a fairly high pricepoint just because of the tablet argument (even if it's not full blown, it will surely play MP3s, Videos and games).
 

migulic

Member
Is the Wii's RRP stil $199 in the US? I bought my own Wii at launch for €250 but I seem to see new Wiis for €120-150 for quite a long time already. No idea whether that's an actual manufacturer's price drop or just the retailers lowering their prices though.
 

Madao

Member
the console itself wasn't made to last this long. under a normal nintendo console lifecycle, we'd have a sucessor out already.

the console is quickly losing value. price drops aren't going to help. having this horrible 9 month drought last year and this year has killed the buzz. not to mention competition from kinect, apple, etc. with better looking hardware and games.

the last hurrah should be a price drop to $99 and a greatly expanded nintendo selects lineup. include some 3rd party gems and at least people might see that the system did get a fair amount of good games that many missed in the shuffle years ago.

i don't think they'd use that strategy since they prefer to kill their previous system whenever a sucessor comes along. it makes sense in a way since the 3DS didn't pick up until the DS was forced to die (and the DS didn't pick up until the GBA was killed either).
looking back, they've done the same to almost every system they've made. only the NES managed to survive long after the SNES was out.
 

antonz

Member
If it sells something closer to 1.5 million, Nintendo would have chosen to say it sold 5m YTD.

In December 2009 they said the Wii sold over 3 million in december as their tease and when numbers were posted it was actually 3.81 million. They Could have easily said close to 4 million but Nintendo plays the conservative route.


The Entire life cycle of the Wii breaks the defined norms so its pointless to even try and apply the norms to it. Hell this generation in general cant be defined using the normal parameters
 
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