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[cajunator]

Nintendo pretty much released stuff as often as they usually do and in some cases more (2 main Mario games for example as well as bringing back some much loved older classics like Punch Out and Sin and Punishment 2). It was pretty much the repeated failure of third parties to release anything equal to their offerings on other systems that stunted the Wii's growth. I remember when the system was mad fucking popular and still third parties inexplicably kept ignoring it, hoping it would just go away. I guess they got their wish now, but they will have to be mentally challenged monkeys to avoid the WiiU.

 

[qizah]

Most people who wanted a Wii probably own one already.

Those waiting for the next console only have to wait a few months now.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

MGS will drop the console like a brick, just like the original Xbox, but I bet you that it'll still be getting COD 11...

I'm wondering why they would drop the 360 just like the Xbox. From what I remember, they dropped the Xbox because they made a terrible deal with Nvidia for the graphics card which made the Xbox hardware impossible to profit on even after 4-5 years. There's no way they drop the 360 in that manner. It's too popular and becoming too profitable.

 

[Cygnus X-1]

No Xenoblade is the reason.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

That's not true at all.

How many Wii U preorders are reserved at your local Gamestop?

Nintendo supported the Wii pretty damn good. 2 Zeldas, 3 Mario games, a new DK game, the obligatory Mario Kart and Mario Party games.

And how many of these games released in 2011? You can't just stop releasing games for a console and expect it to continue selling well. Apple can coast indefinitely on iPhone/iPad sales because gaming is one of many functions that people buy the hardware for, and even then, the market is flooded daily with free time-wasters. All 3 console manufacturers sales are buoyed by full-price retail game releases and, to a lesser extent, budget legacy sales. "Evergreen" titles may have a long tail, but Wii Play isn't moving 400,000 consoles a month like it's 2007 anymore.

Nintendo of America completely dropped the ball by neglecting simple localization efforts when their fanbase was begging for games.

Nintendo obviously hit all of the right notes with Wii out of the gate, but the last 24 months before the Wii U (Nov '10 - Nov '12) will see the release of just a handful of AAA games for the system. They have a situation where people are actively switching to their competitors mid-generation rather than waiting excitedly for their next console.

 

[electroplankton]

And how many of these games released in 2011? You can't just stop releasing games for a console and expect it to continue selling well. Apple can coast indefinitely on iPhone/iPad sales because gaming is one of many functions that people buy the hardware for, and even then, the market is flooded daily with free time-wasters. All 3 console manufacturers sales are buoyed by full-price retail game releases and, to a lesser extent, budget legacy sales. "Evergreen" titles may have a long tail, but Wii Play isn't moving 400,000 consoles a month like it's 2007 anymore.

Nintendo of America completely dropped the ball by neglecting simple localization efforts when their fanbase was begging for games.

Nintendo obviously hit all of the right notes with Wii out of the gate, but the last 24 months before the Wii U (Nov '10 - Nov '12) will see the release of just a handful of AAA games for the system. They have a situation where people are actively switching to their competitors mid-generation rather than waiting excitedly for their next console.

Software-wise, the only Nintendo's fault was not to spread its releases throughout the years. But the problem doesn't rely on the fact that Zangeki no Reginleiv or Tackt of Magic didn't arrive in the U.S. (and the same holds for Xenoblade and The Last Story).
They've released games that keep selling after 4-5 years after the launch.

 

[SonicMegaDrive]

I don't know, maybe you should ask all those people who kept buying PS2 well into PS3's life cycle.

difference is, there were still a lot of games coming out for the PS2 at that time. The Wii has been effectively abandoned by Nintendo and 3rd parties because they know the end is near.

 

[Plinko]

It has fallen quickly, here's some evidence

"Quickly" is extremely subjective this late into the console's lifecycle. That's why I said I was so surprised it hasn't fallen further.

I think people who say it's fallen "so quickly" are insane. This thing lasted WAY longer than most people expected when it launched.

 

[Road]

But then you've got at least another 6 million units to the PS2, and another 5 or 6 to the DS.

It's 11 million units behind (at least) with only one more year of viability.

The Wii is some 7 million units behind the PS2. But indeed it doesn't seem it will ever catch up to the PS2 LTD (over 46 million).

 

[Mr. B Natural]

Nintendo pretty much released stuff as often as they usually do and in some cases more (2 main Mario games for example as well as bringing back some much loved older classics like Punch Out and Sin and Punishment 2). It was pretty much the repeated failure of third parties to release anything equal to their offerings on other systems that stunted the Wii's growth. I remember when the system was mad fucking popular and still third parties inexplicably kept ignoring it, hoping it would just go away. I guess they got their wish now, but they will have to be retarded monkeys to avoid the WiiU.

When you throw a party and nobody comes, it's not the hundreds of people that didn't show up that are the problem, it's the guy throwing the party.

3rd party support doesn't just mean throwing out gold certificates and giving 3rd parties the esteemed permission to make games for the system anymore. Nintendo still doesn't get that/doesn't actually give a shit about 3rd parties.

And No, the WiiU isn't what they asked...a console that is still based on a gimmick and a console that is yet again going to be in the middle of two generations...and still wont be sold with a basic controller. The 3ds wasn't what they asked for either and their small talk about how they learned their lesson did get the attention of the easily amused fanboys here on gaf, but 3rd parties aren't as naive. It's a mario (and mario in a kart) system and nintendo isn't bothering to change that in the least. They, let's face it, are ok with it. Fuck the consumers. No, wait, that's not fair. Consumers are perfectly ok with it. Nintendo is ok with it as well. It makes them money. So history repeats itself.

It's not Nintendo. Notice the lack of support for the kinect and move. Notice how microsoft and sony treats devs for those devices and then notice how, at least microsoft, supports third parties for the "core" line-up. That's how you support 3rd parties in the 21st century, not how they're doing it with their gimmick hardware, as if, they really just want to make short term money and then drop it. As a dev, as a producer, you couldn't scare them away faster then not support advertising and production and have them question if the hardware necessary is even being supported for the time it takes to make a damn game for the device.

 

[Doc Holliday]

Lets hope the lack of any Wii support in the last couple of years means they've been working on an incredible Wii U launch. Of course that wasn't the case for the Wii but I'm going to optimistic :/

 

[Dave Long]

So... I'm looking at the graph in the OP. Then I decide to bust out Paint.

Doom and gloom. Doom... and... gloom.

 

[Threi]

took a couple years...but it looks like the Wii finally got Vita'd

 

[UncleSporky]

The main reason is that Wiis aren't breaking and needing to be replaced like PS2s.

 

[Psychotext]

Yeah, it is somewhat vague indeed. Personally, i think it sounds more like a device that is standalone, not something that is being carried around, nor being portable in that sense.

I also feel there is a difference between handheld and consoles, because handheld are usually one unit per person while consoles are usually one unit per household.

But regardless of the definition, they are at least all dedicated gaming device.

Both Nintendo and Sony have referred to their handhelds as "handheld gaming consoles" so I imagine it's largely irrelevant on the whole.

 

[Vinci]

Lets hope the lack of any Wii support in the last couple of years means they've been working on an incredible Wii U launch. Of course that wasn't the case for the Wii but I'm going to optimistic :/

The Wii had a helluva good first 18 months. Not exactly launch, but it's not like it let the thing whither for too long between releases.

 

[StevieP]

And No, the WiiU isn't what they asked...a console that is still based on a gimmick and a console that is yet again going to be in the middle of two generations...and still wont be sold with a basic controller.

A few points.

1) Generations are not related to hardware power. They are related to release date. The 7th generation included the Wii, and the 8th generation will include the Wii U.

2) The Wii's architecture was firmly rooted in the past. The Wii U's will not.

3) The "upad" is a standard dual analog controller.

4) The word "gimmick", the way you used it, implies a negative connotation. It is the same word everyone used to describe the Wii in 2006.

The 3ds wasn't what they asked for either and their small talk about how they learned their lesson did get the attention of the easily amused fanboys here on gaf, but 3rd parties aren't as naive. It's a mario (and mario in a kart) system and nintendo isn't bothering to change that in the least. They, let's face it, are ok with it. Fuck the consumers. No, wait, that's not fair. Consumers are perfectly ok with it. Nintendo is ok with it as well. It makes them money. So history repeats itself.

You're reducing a machine to 1 or 2 games. If you want to play that game, you can say "360 is the Gears/CoD box" and "PS3 is the Uncharted box" and "Vita is the Uncharted box". That's a naiive way of looking at things.

It's not Nintendo. Notice the lack of support for the kinect and move. Notice how microsoft and sony treats devs for those devices and then notice how, at least microsoft, supports third parties for the "core" line-up. That's how you support 3rd parties in the 21st century, not how they're doing it with their gimmick hardware, as if, they really just want to make short term money and then drop it. As a dev, as a producer, you couldn't scare them away faster then not support advertising and production and have them question if the hardware necessary is even being supported for the time it takes to make a damn game for the device.

Kinect and Move aren't gimmicks in that same negative connotation - they won't be abandoned for the PS4 and 720. And Microsoft is currently mandating all of its remaining internal studios to include Kinect functionality in their first party titles and collaborations.

 

[cajunator]

When you throw a party and nobody comes, it's not the hundreds of people that didn't show up that are the problem, it's the guy throwing the party.

3rd party support doesn't just mean throwing out gold certificates and giving 3rd parties the esteemed permission to make games for the system anymore. Nintendo still doesn't get that/doesn't actually give a shit about 3rd parties.

And No, the WiiU isn't what they asked...a console that is still based on a gimmick and a console that is yet again going to be in the middle of two generations...and still wont be sold with a basic controller. The 3ds wasn't what they asked for either and their small talk about how they learned their lesson did get the attention of the easily amused fanboys here on gaf, but 3rd parties aren't as naive. It's a mario (and mario in a kart) system and nintendo isn't bothering to change that in the least. They, let's face it, are ok with it. Fuck the consumers. No, wait, that's not fair. Consumers are perfectly ok with it. Nintendo is ok with it as well. It makes them money. So history repeats itself.

It's not Nintendo. Notice the lack of support for the kinect and move. Notice how microsoft and sony treats devs for those devices and then notice how, at least microsoft, supports third parties for the "core" line-up. That's how you support 3rd parties in the 21st century, not how they're doing it with their gimmick hardware, as if, they really just want to make short term money and then drop it. As a dev, as a producer, you couldn't scare them away faster then not support advertising and production and have them question if the hardware necessary is even being supported for the time it takes to make a damn game for the device.

The fact that third parties arent supporting motion control and other creative interfaces is the main reason gaming is starting to suck. Everything is stale boring shit now. No imagination. no creativity. I guess it was inevitable that the market would turn out this way but I know I'm not the only one disappointed by it.

 

[Rocket Scientist]

The exchange rate is killing Nintendo's profits. I'm pretty sure it's one of the main reasons they're not dropping the price even more yet.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

The fact that third parties arent supporting motion control and other creative interfaces is the main reason gaming is starting to suck. Everything is stale boring shit now. No imagination. no creativity. I guess it was inevitable that the market would turn out this way but I know I'm not the only one disappointed by it.

Innovation is thriving in the $20 or less market. Lower budgets, less risk, no retail pressure. And most publishers have embraced touch gaming to some extent, whether it's on DS, mobile, or now Vita. Motion gaming with its current limitations/flaws has limited applications to most "core" gaming experiences.

 

[clashfan]

...Wii finally got Vita'd

Is that a new meme?

 

[Hyuga]

The Wii is not the PS2.

 

[ZAK]

When you throw a party and nobody comes, it's not the hundreds of people that didn't show up that are the problem, it's the guy throwing the party.

3rd party support doesn't just mean throwing out gold certificates and giving 3rd parties the esteemed permission to make games for the system anymore. Nintendo still doesn't get that/doesn't actually give a shit about 3rd parties.

...

Notice how microsoft and sony treats devs for those devices and then notice how, at least microsoft, supports third parties for the "core" line-up. That's how you support 3rd parties in the 21st century, not how they're doing it with their gimmick hardware, as if, they really just want to make short term money and then drop it.

Could you specify how exactly they support third parties?

 

[Vinci]

The Wii is not the PS2.

Sales-wise? No, it was better. Support-wise? Yeah, no kidding...

 

[Something Wicked]

Just my observation which may be way out of line. I think the expanded audience that the Wii created either moved on to other hobbies or "moved up," notice the quotes, over the course of this generation. I think those that discovered gaming with Wii Sports or Wii Fit over the course of 5 years moved straight past Mario Galaxy and Zelda and into Call of Duty and other mature games.

And so the people who were 8-10 when the Wii was released are now 13-15, are buying PS3's and 360's. And those that were 3 or 5 when the Wii was released are going to the 360 now instead of the Wii as their first system, because the media components and higher tech quality is appealing more to their parents, and with Kinect they still give you that safe and family fun early Wii experience. So basically Nintendo expanded the audience, a large portion of that audience moved toward the HD twins, and the 360 is doing a good job at least in the US and UK of becoming the new Wii for that young next generation.

I was making this point in the "which of the 3 will drop out first?" thread, and of course, the fanboys lambasted it. Many families, who bought Wiis for the '06-'08 holidays, bought 360s+Kinect for the 2010 and 2011 holidays. Such families are likely not to purchase another console for the 2012 holidays- which bodes very, very poorly for the Wii U and Nintendo without their wheelhouse demographic.

Just saying; I see people complaining about Wii line-up when it has been actually far better than GC one, and third-party wise surely better than N64.

Absolutely disagree.

The GC's 1st party games were superior to the Wiis, and the GC had many of the top 3rd party titles that were released on the other consoles of its times, unlike the Wii.

 

[jcm]

Could you specify how exactly they support third parties?

Both Sony and Nintendo have dev teams who work with third party pubs to solve dev problems. Sony wrote and gives away a cross platform game engine. MS's SDK tools, support and documentation is said to be the best in the industry. Sony worked with Valve to bring Steam support to PSN. And then, of course, there's a shitload of marketing money from both of them.

Once upon a time, Nintendo was famous for treating third parties like competitors, rather than partners. Nintendo has been saying the right things lately, so maybe that has changed.

 

[phisheep]

Hell the Wii holds the record for every month of the year methinks in unit sales. Nintendo was selling in a month worldwide what Sony and MS were selling for a fiscal quarter. At one time unit sales were really really one sided. On a scale the PS2 didn't see. Which was saying a lot because the second place console was doing a lot better than the last gen second placer.

I say this a lot but publishers, developers, and Nintendo screwed the pooch with the Wii. Nintendo by not trying to money out some exclusives, and pubs for not spending big money making sure a huge thriving market with cheap to dev for hardware stayed at the top.

The pace that system was selling at makes the 360 rebound look quaint in comparison.

This.

The Wii didn't die, it was murdered by publishers and devs who wanted and wished and hoped it would fail and for four whole years failed to develop anything sane for it.

If I had shares in those guys I would be dead cross with them.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I don't think I've ever seen a worse "winner" of a generation than Nintendo with the Wii.

This.

The Wii didn't die, it was murdered by publishers and devs who wanted and wished and hoped it would fail and for four whole years failed to develop anything sane for it.

If I had shares in those guys I would be dead cross with them.

I don't think anyone wished for it to fail. The HW is antiquated though. Double edge sword going with basically same tech but with new whistles.

 

[Amir0x]

I don't think anyone wished for it to fail.

Wii represented a running in place for game hardware and, minus pointer controls, largely a massive step back for game controls in most genres. It wouldn't be unusual at all for someone to wish something like that to fail. Playing games instead of companies demands I approached it clinically: "I want my games to be the best they currently can given all available options; they can't be the best they can be on Wii." On consoles the best available option was PS360; every game that was multiplatform one buys for PC.

So Wii was a Nintendo machine and that served its purpose, and I'm glad they didn't have a chance to infect the larger gaming development community with the sub-par hardware and such.

 

[gamergirly]

Considering how many millions of systems the Wii has sold, the only thing they've lost is another year of "potential" sales. Especially since Wii U is coming out next year. It would have just 2013 instead. No way the hardware was going to keep 360/PS3 at bay for 6+ years

 

[electroplankton]

Absolutely disagree.

The GC's 1st party games were superior to the Wiis, and the GC had many of the top 3rd party titles that were released on the other consoles of its times, unlike the Wii.

Opinions.
I still think the two Galaxy and NSMB are far greater than Sunshine. Plus there are two great Kirbys, one wonderful Donkey Kong (way better than Konga, for me), and Brawl > Melee, as well as MK Wii > MK Double Dash. GC had two great Metroid Prime, while Wii got just Corruption and a discrete Other M. I can see The Wind Waker in par with Skyward Sword. As experiences, Wii Sports Resort and Wii Fit were totally nice. Plus Nintendo produced some games as Sin and Punishment 2, Endless Ocean, Xenoblade, The Last Story, Rhythm Heaven which are better or at least of the same quality as Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin and Baten Kaitos. Etc. etc.

As for third parties, GC had some multiplat titles but not surely the top ones (GTA missed, MGS missed -do not count the horrible and useless remake-, FF missed in a mainline entry, SH missed, Onimusha missed, DQ missed, etc.), while Wii got a very particular offers, from Muramasa to Red Steel 2, from Monster Hunter 3 to Little King's Story, from Go Vacation to Epic Mickey.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

Wii represented a running in place for game hardware and, minus pointer controls, largely a massive step back for game controls in most genres. It wouldn't be unusual at all for someone to wish something like that to fail. Playing games instead of companies demands I approached it clinically: "I want my games to be the best they currently can given all available options; they can't be the best they can be on Wii." On consoles the best available option was PS360; every game that was multiplatform one buys for PC.

So Wii was a Nintendo machine and that served its purpose, and I'm glad they didn't have a chance to infect the larger gaming development community with the sub-par hardware and such.

I agree wholeheartedly here. I guess in the words you put it, I I agree. I was one to say that this can't be the new standard way back before the system came out. All the hype and moms, grandmas, and hippies proved me wrong temporarily. In that sense, I wanted it to fail as well.

 

[Palette Swap]

Hah, just realized the reference in the title. Love it.

 

[phisheep]

I don't think anyone wished for it to fail.

Oh, I bet they did. Probably every CEO and every accountant and every middleware dev and a bunch of bankers and investors that's spent a lot of time and a whole load of money tooling up for the HD revolution wakes up one morning to find they are being trounced in the market by a tiny white SD box full of 2001 tech?

You got to either wish it to fail or admit to one heck of a costly mistake. Most people wouldn't admit the mistake.

 

[SolarPowered]

Wii represented a running in place for game hardware and, minus pointer controls, largely a massive step back for game controls in most genres. It wouldn't be unusual at all for someone to wish something like that to fail. Playing games instead of companies demands I approached it clinically: "I want my games to be the best they currently can given all available options; they can't be the best they can be on Wii." On consoles the best available option was PS360; every game that was multiplatform one buys for PC.

So Wii was a Nintendo machine and that served its purpose, and I'm glad they didn't have a chance to infect the larger gaming development community with the sub-par hardware and such.

I guess all those studio closures were worth it. As if Gears and BF3 would've been impacted by new people joining the fray...

 

[Amir0x]

I guess all those studio closures were worth it. As if Gears and BF3 would've been impacted by new people joining the fray...

LOL @ you thinking there wouldn't have been tons of studio closures anyway. As Wii has demonstrated time and time again, it's not a particularly good place for most developers to be anyway. But in any event, let's say that if every developer supported Wii it would have been rad and all games would have done well. Awesome!

I don't care. I'm a gamer. Closing studios is part of business. Compete or not. The great games will keep coming. Wii was holding back higher quality gaming and that's all I care about as a gamer. I'll not settle for inferior games just because some developers close because they can't make better games that the market wants.

Wii existed and it was a Nintendo platform, and it served its purpose.

Edit: Gears and BF3 would have been impacted by targeting shittier platforms quality wise; as a gamer, that is literally all I care about.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I feel like Nintendo gave up on the platform some time ago.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Oh, I bet they did. Probably every CEO and every accountant and every middleware dev and a bunch of bankers and investors that's spent a lot of time and a whole load of money tooling up for the HD revolution wakes up one morning to find they are being trounced in the market by a tiny white SD box full of 2001 tech?

You got to either wish it to fail or admit to one heck of a costly mistake. Most people wouldn't admit the mistake.

Bloody hell, according to some people at developers, we had actual software engineers who considered the Wii an insult to them and didn't want to be forced to code a decent rendering engine for it. It isn't a myth that people did want the Wii to just go away.

I think, in retrospect, Nintendo not being sure if Wii would succeed caused them to be too conservative. They should have gone just a LITTLE bit further - either built in the tech for motion+ (aka, the fixed version) and/or increased the hardware capability just a tad more. Enough for basic HD output @ 720p, and a modest increase in graphical ability.

In an alternate universe, I think we should have been seeing a Wii with those specs, producing AAA motion control games like Skyward Sword, or even A games like Red Steel II, from day one out of the box, and consistently year after year.

Playing a game like SS, for me, is a peek at what might have been, had 3rd parties actually put real games on the Wii and not treated it like a red headed stepchild. The entire point of the Wii, besides accessibility and content for the mainstream, was to be a platform for unique experiences that leveraged their uniqueness against not having the highest tech graphics possible at the moment. Wii aged badly and quickly, unfortunately. Just a little more oomph might've staved that off.

Plus the ability for 3rd parties to stop their bitching and be able to at least the basics of their HD assets and production methods on the Wii.

I feel like Nintendo gave up on the platform some time ago.

This has always been Nintendo's problem IMHO. Their legendary conservative business sense doesn't always mesh with keeping an entertainment platform alive. When all signs point to yes, and they can be assured a platform will thrive, they'll open up the warchest and spam the platform with trillions of games - witness the DS' library. When things are uncertain, they'll help dig their own platform's grave by clamming up and putting minimal effort into it.

It sure seemed that when Wii Music flopped, they entirely faltered and stopped all development of games aimed at the "Wii ______" audience. It's insane that after Wii Sports Resort was finished, they never made another meaty package like it using M+. Wii Party as their final game in that series is crazy and insulting. Likewise, they already had games like Galaxy 2, Donkey Kong, the Kirbies, and Zelda in the pipeline by that point. But it seems clear that they just stopped developing stuff after that and coasted. Thus after a splurge of big games in 2010, 2011 stretches out into a ghosttown again until the final Kirby and Zelda game hit. NOA didn't help this, by treating their core audience like crap; stuff like Xenoblade was created for a reason, to fill major gaps in the library and prevent dry spells while EAD's big guns were busy.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

The Wii is some 7 million units behind the PS2. But indeed it doesn't seem it will ever catch up to the PS2 LTD (over 46 million).

I was arguing with someone that the 360 isn't likely to pass the Wii, let alone the PS2. 360 passing the Wii is in the realm of possibility. I doubt it will get there since I expect both to be more or less phased out within a year. But 360 getting to the PS2?

Complete and utter fiction.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Wii represented a running in place for game hardware and, minus pointer controls, largely a massive step back for game controls in most genres. It wouldn't be unusual at all for someone to wish something like that to fail. Playing games instead of companies demands I approached it clinically: "I want my games to be the best they currently can given all available options; they can't be the best they can be on Wii." On consoles the best available option was PS360; every game that was multiplatform one buys for PC.

So Wii was a Nintendo machine and that served its purpose, and I'm glad they didn't have a chance to infect the larger gaming development community with the sub-par hardware and such.

Ice cold but someone had to say it. I agree, I wanted the Wii to fail for the very reasons you've outlined. It's the only time I can remember I wanted one of the consoles/handhelds to really truly fail.

 

[sixteen-bit]

I feel like Nintendo gave up on the platform some time ago.

They're really been dialing back the 1st party support, that's for sure.

 

[wazoo]

Opinions.

As for third parties, GC had some multiplat titles but not surely the top ones (GTA missed, MGS missed -do not count the horrible and useless remake-, FF missed in a mainline entry, SH missed, Onimusha missed, DQ missed, etc.).

Wii got the best SH in years.

 

[Log4Girlz]

I feel like Nintendo gave up on the platform some time ago.

Yea all resources are on 3DS and Wii-U. They don't think along the lines of "OMG we have to beat the PS2 or all the money we made disappears".

 

[P90]

This thread confuses me. How does selling over 90 million consoles equate to failure? Is there a joke here I am missing? Being 70K behind the leader and 200K above the last place console for the month of December is bomba?

 

[electroplankton]

This thread confuses me. How does selling over 90 million consoles equate to failure? Is there a joke here I am missing? Being 70K behind the leader and 200K above the last place console for the month of December is bomba?

I think here it has been pointed out the sharp decline of Wii sales. Sharp... People were predicting an even more rapid decline in its first years in the market so probably the console lasts beyond many expecations. Btw, it is a fact the Nintendo could have exploited better such installed base.

 

[wazoo]

It sure seemed that when Wii Music flopped, they entirely faltered and stopped all development of games aimed at the "Wii ______" audience. It's insane that after Wii Sports Resort was finished, they never made another meaty package like it using M+.

They did Wii play motion plus, who flopped unlike Wii party which was a hit despite you hate it.

Thus after a splurge of big games in 2010, 2011 stretches out into a ghosttown again until the final Kirby and Zelda game hit. NOA didn't help this, by treating their core audience like crap; stuff like Xenoblade was created for a reason, to fill major gaps in the library and prevent dry spells while EAD's big guns were busy.

3rd party stopped everything. Nintendo production was consistent with past years and way more productive than any competitor. There is always so much you can do when 3rd parties are not here anymore.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Ice cold but someone had to say it. I agree, I wanted the Wii to fail for the very reasons you've outlined. It's the only time I can remember I wanted one of the consoles/handhelds to really truly fail.

Really?

Those were the reasons I wanted it to succeed. To have a sense of stability in a really chaotic market. It's not like it would have ended the tech push, it just might have stabilized it before we lost so many studios to bankruptcy and consolidation.

But the industry on the whole completely failed. From the manufacturers of the hardware all the way down to the devs of the games. The market was completely receptive, but devs interest lay elsewhere. And that hurt a lot of them.

Next gen actually stands to be an even bigger bloodbath if budgets go higher. But some of you guys think more about "What can a studio do to make me happy?" instead of "What can they do to stay alive?"

PS4 and Loop have as large a tech increase as the PS3 and 360 did? Your favorite studio is one failure away from closing shop.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

I guess all those studio closures were worth it. As if Gears and BF3 would've been impacted by new people joining the fray...

Gears and BF3 would have been a lot worse if they were designed for motion controls, Wii graphics, and Nintendo's archaic online infrastructure.

Really?

Those were the reasons I wanted it to succeed. To have a sense of stability in a really chaotic market. It's not like it would have ended the tech push, it just might have stabilized it before we lost so many studios to bankruptcy and consolidation.

But the industry on the whole completely failed. From the manufacturers of the hardware all the way down to the devs of the games. The market was completely receptive, but devs interest lay elsewhere. And that hurt a lot of them.

Next gen actually stands to be an even bigger bloodbath if budgets go higher. But some of you guys think more about "What can a studio do to make me happy?" instead of "What can they do to stay alive?"

PS4 and Loop have as large a tech increase as the PS3 and 360 did? Your favorite studio is one failure away from closing shop.

If a studio like Bizarre or Free Radical or Factor 5 had continued making AAA racers and FPS and flight games for the Wii, they'd still be out of business. Lack of interest is lack of interest. Are we going to pretend that PGR4 wasn't a hit because it was HD? Or because Bizarre struggled with the hardware? Or because 360 owners don't buy racing games?

The industry is still young, so people still operate under the delusion that there's room for everyone to get a slice of the pie. Look at the OT threads for the Blackberry Playbook and the HP touchpad. Look at people accepting the sobering reality that RIM probably won't be with us anymore in 3 years.

I agree that the industry has reached a saturation point for budgets, but the guys who've bowed out this round have done so because competition is higher than ever.

 

[magash]

Really?

Those were the reasons I wanted it to succeed. To have a sense of stability in a really chaotic market. It's not like it would have ended the tech push, it just might have stabilized it before we lost so many studios to bankruptcy and consolidation.

But the industry on the whole completely failed. From the manufacturers of the hardware all the way down to the devs of the games. The market was completely receptive, but devs interest lay elsewhere. And that hurt a lot of them.

Next gen actually stands to be an even bigger bloodbath if budgets go higher. But some of you guys think more about "What can a studio do to make me happy?" instead of "What can they do to stay alive?"

PS4 and Loop have as large a tech increase as the PS3 and 360 did? Your favorite studio is one failure away from closing shop.

Well said.

The industry as it is will totally collapse if there is a repeat of what happened this generation. It is most definitely important that the 3rd party publishers and developers *THINK* and perform the necessary feasibility studies as well as risk analysis before they decide to invest huge sums of money into the next Playstation and Xbox consoles.

 

[SolarPowered]

LOL @ you thinking there wouldn't have been tons of studio closures anyway. As Wii has demonstrated time and time again, it's not a particularly good place for most developers to be anyway. But in any event, let's say that if every developer supported Wii it would have been rad and all games would have done well. Awesome!

I don't care. I'm a gamer. Closing studios is part of business. Compete or not. The great games will keep coming. Wii was holding back higher quality gaming and that's all I care about as a gamer. I'll not settle for inferior games just because some developers close because they can't make better games that the market wants.

Wii existed and it was a Nintendo platform, and it served its purpose.

Edit: Gears and BF3 would have been impacted by targeting shittier platforms quality wise; as a gamer, that is literally all I care about.

Gears and BF3 would have been a lot worse if they were designed for motion controls, Wii graphics, and Nintendo's archaic online infrastructure.

Read my post again. BF3 and Gears would've been fine alongside many other blockbuster games. Has a gears game ever been made a Nintendo platform? That is like saying that Metroid games could be hurt by kinect games next generation when they don't even share the same platform. Did CoD PS3/360 suffer because of some rinky dink Wii versions? No

My point is that those shooting games would not have been effected by more earnest efforts on the Wii. Would Dead space be any worse if extraction would've been a FPS/TPS? Would RE5 be a terrible game because of more serious RE efforts or more games like Zack & Wiki from Capcom?

hmmm