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[specialguy]

It's not really on topic to this thread but it occurred to me, 360's gotta really be becoming a beast legswise. Just did a 1.7m Nov in year 6 and I looked up the PS2's highest Nov, 1.318m.

I mean I think 360's on it's way to becoming the USA's all time best selling console, no?

There's no PS2 LTD because NPD stopped giving PS2 numbers a while back, right? Anybody offhand have the last known USA PS2 LTD and when it was through? I have all the monthly numbers but too lazy to add them all up...

More on topic, I dont think 99 was the "magic bullet" for Wii. Wii's always struck me as having very price inelastic demand. The demand is what it is, and the price whether 99 or 249 doesn't matter all that much. This was born out to me when the cut to 149 didn't really goose Wii sales much. I mean I'm sure 99 would help but i doubt all that much. I'm also remember how long it took PS2 to reach 99. 99 isn't what it used to be with inflation, heck a console like the PS3 may never get there.

 

[ASIS]

It's not really on topic to this thread but it occurred to me, 360's gotta really be becoming a beast legswise. Just did a 1.7m Nov in year 6 and I looked up the PS2's highest Nov, 1.318m.

I mean I think 360's on it's way to becoming the USA's all time best selling console, no?

There's no PS2 LTD because NPD stopped giving PS2 numbers a while back, right? Anybody offhand have the last known USA PS2 LTD and when it was through? I have all the monthly numbers but too lazy to add them all up...

More on topic, I dont think 99 was the "magic bullet" for Wii. Wii's always struck me as having very price inelastic demand. The demand is what it is, and the price whether 99 or 249 doesn't matter all that much. This was born out to me when the cut to 149 didn't really goose Wii sales much. I mean I'm sure 99 would help but i doubt all that much. I'm also remember how long it took PS2 to reach 99. 99 isn't what it used to be with inflation, heck a console like the PS3 may never get there.

I think the DS is the best selling console of all time. It's going to take A LOT from MS to dethrone it, and that's not even putting Wii and PS2 in the calculation.

 

[cvxfreak]

I doubt Nintendo can drop to $99 right now considering the current Yen-Dollar exchange rate. That would effectively bring the cost of the Wii below many HD games in Yen terms.

I think Nintendo can and should have dropped the price in Japan already. ¥20,000 is too much 5 years later.

 

[Freezie KO]

Wii didn't really deserve to sell well due to Nintendo's non-support, but I hope Kirby Wii did okay. Great game.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

the console itself wasn't made to last this long. under a normal nintendo console lifecycle, we'd have a sucessor out already.

the console is quickly losing value. price drops aren't going to help. having this horrible 9 month drought last year and this year has killed the buzz. not to mention competition from kinect, apple, etc. with better looking hardware and games.

the last hurrah should be a price drop to $99 and a greatly expanded nintendo selects lineup. include some 3rd party gems and at least people might see that the system did get a fair amount of good games that many missed in the shuffle years ago.

i don't think they'd use that strategy since they prefer to kill their previous system whenever a sucessor comes along. it makes sense in a way since the 3DS didn't pick up until the DS was forced to die (and the DS didn't pick up until the GBA was killed either).
looking back, they've done the same to almost every system they've made. only the NES managed to survive long after the SNES was out.

This is true. Nintendo always drop support for their past consoles as quickly as possible (which usually translates into a quick death for the console since nobody other than them ever supports the console by that point)

The Wii's life is really characterised by ups and downs in the release schedule, with delayed effects on sales.

2006 - 2007 = explosion of software releases and sales (impact is felt all the way until the end of 2008)

2008 - mid 2009 = The great drought and the disaster of E3 2008 (impact isn't felt until Q1 2009, which is when sales start to drop significantly - only stopped temporarily by the big 3)

mid 2009 - late 2009 = The great Wii revival with the big 1, 2, 3 punch of WSR, WF+ and NSMB Wii (These three games single handily turned things around for sales and held back the impact of 2008)

2010 - end of 2010 = E3 2008 catches up and Wii drops off a cliff, becoming primarily an Xmas seller (buoyed by a strong Xmas lineup)

2011-2012 = The Xmas bump doesn't last and Wii dies a quick and painful death.

It's funny how all of the Wii's troubles can be linked back to a single event (E3 2008). That failure in 2008 is the catalyst of the Wii's downfall. That one slip up ruined everything, because Nintendo had no safety net (3rd party support) to prop up the console.

 

[Shiggy]

Fatal Frame 4 (not in english but its really not a long game)

The translation of FF4 aka Zero: A Japanese Ghost Story must have been pretty far along as they already had advertisements ready and retailers informed.

 

[Seraphinianus]

Why isn't the Wii already @ $99? Nintendo. They rode the sellout wave for 2.5 years, and so were late, and continue to be late, in dropping the price of the system. On the software side, it took them forever to introduce a Player's Choice lineup to drop the price on their first-party games, too. Nintendo is just way late with price drops in general this generation on the console side.

what the hell? how are they "late"? They aren't headless chickens running around, dropping the price when they FINALLY realize they are "late."

you guys are not the business managers at nintendo and do not know better than them what they are doing.

 

[Log4Girlz]

The whole Wii experiment has failed everyone. I bet Nintendo wished they had scrapped the idea altogether.

 

[TomServo]

[Now we get to this Christmas (6th December for Wii), and we see a ridiculous dropoff for the system. ~55% YOY drop for Wii in December. And it's not that the system can't sell. Nintendo sold ~ as many Wii's this Black Friday as they did the previous Black Friday. So what happened?

Interesting bit about Black Friday sales.

Very likely that better Black Friday deals moved many Christmas Wii purchases into November. YOY that would make sense - I would expect the system to decline on Black Friday YOY, not hold steady. Compared to PS2 that would make sense as well, as Black Friday has really been pushed hard into the consumer conciousness in the past few years due to the recession.

The whole Wii experiment has failed everyone. I bet Nintendo wished they had scrapped the idea altogether.

Why? Even if Nintendo had gone "next gen" a la PS3 and 360, we'd still end up with a console that sat around collecting dust waiting for Nintendo first-party titles to be released. I say that as a lifelong Nintendo fanboy.

 

[06nbarnhill]

This thread is full of lulz.

I hear Wii is doomed and is a massive failure.............oh wait...its so far ahead at this points no one else is ever going to catch up....I remember now. Victory is a bitch eh?

 

[MarkMclovin]

The whole Wii experiment has failed everyone. I bet Nintendo wished they had scrapped the idea altogether.

I'm sure this is sarcasm, but do people here and Nintendo themselves think the Wii is a failure?

I'm honestly struggling to see how it is.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

This thread is full of lulz.

I hear Wii is doomed and is a massive failure.............oh wait...its so far ahead at this points no one else is ever going to catch up....I remember now. Victory is a bitch eh?

Relative to the success it could've (and should've) been? Yes, I'd call it a failure.

This should've been the dominant console that would beat out the PS2, instead it's going to struggle to beat the PS1. It might be the best selling console of this generation and Nintendo's best selling home console ever, but it's still a huge missed opportunity.

The DS was a far bigger success and represents what the Wii should've been. Plus the 360 is probably going to edge out the Wii in the US when all is said and done (which is the market that most 3rd parties care about the most)

 

[Log4Girlz]

Relative to the success it could've (and should've) been? Yes, I'd call it a failure.

This should've been the dominant console that would beat out the PS2, instead it's going to struggle to beat the PS1. It might be the best selling console of this generation and Nintendo's best selling home console ever, but it's still a huge missed opportunity.

I agree. I tried to interview a Nintendo executive about this matter but I couldn't find him under the mountain of cash at their headquarters.

 

[Neo C.]

I doubt Nintendo can drop to $99 right now considering the current Yen-Dollar exchange rate. That would effectively bring the cost of the Wii below many HD games in Yen terms.

I think Nintendo can and should have dropped the price in Japan already. ¥20,000 is too much 5 years later.

I agree, the Yen-Dollar exchange rate is a huge disadvantage for Japanese companies. I think Japan relies too long and too much on the US market. It's time to shift to focus significantly.

 

[specialguy]

I think the DS is the best selling console of all time. It's going to take A LOT from MS to dethrone it, and that's not even putting Wii and PS2 in the calculation.

Talking about non handheld. Is a handheld even a "console"?

 

[DarkMehm]

Games and price would increase the sales a few 100k here and there, but you all miss the biggest point. What goes up in a spectacular way comes down in the same manner (well there is a saying, but I couldn't remember it). It's always like this. The same way the 360 will crash down sooner or later, even though it will still have good sales like the Wii has now.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Talking about non handheld. Is a handheld even a "console"?

Well then it looks like it will be the most successful nonPS2, nonWii console in America. I doubt it gets to the Wii's point, because I expect both of their successors to be out in America within a year and a half.

But no it won't get to PS2 levels. That is pretty much assured. It'd have to sell at least 11 million units in the next year to do so.

 

[Seraphinianus]

Games and price would increase the sales a few 100k here and there, but you all miss the biggest point. What goes up in a spectacular way comes down in the same manner (well there is a saying, but I couldn't remember it). It's always like this. The same way the 360 will crash down sooner or later, even though it will still have good sales like the Wii has now.

"the candle that burns twice as bright, burns half as long" /just watched blade runner the other night


but that's not even the case. how about "the console that sells like fucking crazy for years, makes shit loads of profit even when it's 'dying' in the eyes of neogaf"

it's not a binary thing like the system is alive or dead. every sale is icing right now and the sales are not exactly at PSP levels yet.

 

[amdnv]

I mean I think 360's on it's way to becoming the USA's all time best selling console, no?

Most definitely. If the Wii keeps performing like this, 360 should pass it within 2 years.

 

[specialguy]

Well then it looks like it will be the most successful nonPS2, nonWii console in America. I doubt it gets to the Wii's point, because I expect both of their successors to be out in America within a year and a half.

But no it won't get to PS2 levels. That is pretty much assured. It'd have to sell at least 11 million units in the next year to do so.

Huh? Where is this magical one year cutoff? Or are you saying it's 11m behind where PS2 was in year 6 (That sounds hard to believe).

I know it's not now, but it's definitely going to catch the Wii, so that only leaves PS2.

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Most definitely. If the Wii keeps performing like this, 360 should pass it within 2 years.

But then you've got at least another 6 million units to the PS2, and another 5 or 6 to the DS.

Huh? Where is this magical one year cutoff? Or are you saying it's 11m behind where PS2 was in year 6 (That sounds hard to believe).

I know it's not now, but it's definitely going to catch the Wii, so that only leaves PS2.

It's 11 million units behind (at least) with only one more year of viability.

 

[amdnv]

Is a handheld even a "console"?

In the same way that a toaster is an oven.

 

[amdnv]

But then you've got at least another 6 million units to the PS2, and another 5 or 6 to the DS.

Oh sorry. I didn't see the "all time" in there. I don't think it'll catch the PS2.

 

[Shiggy]

Why do we expect the Xbox 360 keep on selling like this in the coming two years when MGS is cutting back on software support as the Nextbox is on the horizon?

 

[Thunder Monkey]

In the same way that a toaster is an oven.

They're both consoles. Systems dedicated to gaming and competing for money.

Different markets might buy different consoles, but that doesn't really stop them from being in competition for the mass markets money.

 

[user_nat]

Why do we expect the Xbox 360 keep on selling in the coming two years like this when MGS is cutting back on software support as the Nextbox is on the horizon?

How many people are buying 360s for MS software output these days?

There is 6 years of backlog for them. Same reason the PS2 kept selling after 360/PS3 releases.

 

[Sammy Samusu]

- Wii U
- Kinect
- Third-party games

 

[Gustav]

No one knows the Wii U exists.

Man, Wii U is such a bad idea.

 

[Plinko]

This is absolutely the best thing for Nintendo, IMO. They needed to kill off the Wii before Wii U came out to prevent brand confusion.

 

[IAmMonodi]

Yeah man that Wii thing totally was a failure for Nintendo man. I mean, shit, it sold so bad...

 

[Thunder Monkey]

How many people are buying 360s for MS software output these days?

There is 6 years of backlog for them. Same reason the PS2 kept selling after 360/PS3 releases.

Yeah, I don't see anything like that happening. None of these consoles will have the staying power of the PS2. Especially since I don't see Sony or MS making the mistake of overcharging for their hardware this time. I expect both to be much cheaper than their last gen systems and overall adoption of those next systems to be at a much higher pace than this gen.

The PS2 lasted on games, and the exceedingly high cost of upgrading early in the generation.

 

[amdnv]

They're both consoles. Systems dedicated to gaming and competing for money.

Toasters and ovens are both ovens. Equipment dedicated to heating up food and competing for money. In fact, I'd say that toasters and ovens are both microwaves. Equipment dedicated to heating up food and competing for money.

 

[Nuclear Muffin]

Why do we expect the Xbox 360 keep on selling like this in the coming two years when MGS is cutting back on software support as the Nextbox is on the horizon?

MGS will drop the console like a brick, just like the original Xbox, but I bet you that it'll still be getting COD 11...

 

[Thunder Monkey]

Toasters and ovens are both ovens. Equipment dedicated to heating up food and competing for money. In fact, I'd say that toasters and ovens are both microwaves. Equipment dedicated to heating up food and competing for money.

Uh... huh.

I'm just going to go to bed before I call someone an idiot.

 

[user_nat]

Yeah, I don't see anything like that happening. None of these consoles will have the staying power of the PS2. Especially since I don't see Sony or MS making the mistake of overcharging for their hardware this time. I expect both to be much cheaper than their last gen systems and overall adoption of those next systems to be at a much higher pace than this gen.

The PS2 lasted on games, and the exceedingly high cost of upgrading early in the generation.

I don't know. I can't see next gen stuff launching any cheaper than the 360 was at launch.

With another redesign and a long over due price cut, I can see the 360 (and PS3) remaining competitive for awhile into next gen.

 

[ASIS]

In the same way that a toaster is an oven.

In the same way that laptops are computers, same way as facebook is a gaming platform.

They are not exactly the same, but handhelds are consoles.

 

[AdventureRacing]

Yeah, I don't see anything like that happening. None of these consoles will have the staying power of the PS2. Especially since I don't see Sony or MS making the mistake of overcharging for their hardware this time. I expect both to be much cheaper than their last gen systems and overall adoption of those next systems to be at a much higher pace than this gen.

The PS2 lasted on games, and the exceedingly high cost of upgrading early in the generation.

Right now the 360 is showing better legs than the PS2 ever did (of course that's partly because it started so much slower). Just the extended length of this gen alone will guarantee that the 360 will have a lot of staying power. The 360 is already into its 7th year and it's selling better than ever. Lets say they release the next xbox at the end of 2013 ( i don't think that's too unreasonable). The 360 may already already be 8 years old before its successor even releases. If MS can can it to a really cheap price point i can see it selling for a year or 2 after the next xbox comes out.

So whilst i don't think it will stick around for as long as the PS2 it will still have a really long life span.

 

[C4Lukins]

Just my observation which may be way out of line. I think the expanded audience that the Wii created either moved on to other hobbies or "moved up," notice the quotes, over the course of this generation. I think those that discovered gaming with Wii Sports or Wii Fit over the course of 5 years moved straight past Mario Galaxy and Zelda and into Call of Duty and other mature games.

And so the people who were 8-10 when the Wii was released are now 13-15, are buying PS3's and 360's. And those that were 3 or 5 when the Wii was released are going to the 360 now instead of the Wii as their first system, because the media components and higher tech quality is appealing more to their parents, and with Kinect they still give you that safe and family fun early Wii experience. So basically Nintendo expanded the audience, a large portion of that audience moved toward the HD twins, and the 360 is doing a good job at least in the US and UK of becoming the new Wii for that young next generation.

Still to say the Wii is bombing is silly. Nintendo is still making money off that system and it is far from irrelevant. It is just now doing average numbers instead of insane crazy ass numbers. The falloff is unprecedented, but having three 60 million plus selling consoles during a generation is also something new.

 

[test_account]

In the same way that laptops are computers, same way as facebook is a gaming platform.

They are not exactly the same, but handhelds are consoles.

Just wondering, in what way does a handheld and standalone device being defined as a console? What is the definition of the word "console"?

Personally i have never called a handheld for a console. They are all gaming devices for sure, but i dont think that they are all consoles.

 

[C4Lukins]

In the same way that laptops are computers, same way as facebook is a gaming platform.

They are not exactly the same, but handhelds are consoles.

I do not buy this. They overlap at points, but I doubt the success and the failure of the handhelds has a significant impact on the consoles. The overlap is just not enough to put them in the same category. I mean you could say mobile gaming on Android, or Steam is a console if we are going to be that loose in analyzing what is a console. They all take bites from each other, but Halo is not really competing with Angry Birds, and buying a 3DS is probably not impacting whether or not you buy a PS3. At least not at the level where 360, PS3, and Wii are taking chunks out of each other.

 

[herod]

buying a 3DS is probably not impacting whether or not you buy a PS3.

except in Japan.

 

[C4Lukins]

except in Japan.

Even there. I just do not see it as an either or proposition. I play mobile games when I am away from my home. I play consoles when I am at home. Until they become one and the same I just do not believe that they are the same category.

 

[ASIS]

Just wondering, in what way does a handheld and standalone device being defined as a console? What is the definition of the word "console"?

Personally i have never called a handheld for a console. They are all gaming devices for sure, but i dont think that they are all consoles.

console 2 |ˈkänˌsōl| |ˈkɑnˈsoʊl| |ˈkɒnsəʊl|
noun
1 a panel or unit accommodating a set of controls for electronic or mechanical equipment.
• a cabinet for television or radio equipment.
• the cabinet or enclosure containing the keyboards, stops, pedals, etc., of an organ.

It's a pretty vague definition, but anyway I don't want to derail the thread with this discussion so please ignore it.

 

[Allan Holdsworth]

Even there. I just do not see it as an either or proposition. I play mobile games when I am away from my home. I play consoles when I am at home. Until they become one and the same I just do not believe that they are the same category.

In Japan, I don't think that divide exists anymore.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Why do we expect the Xbox 360 keep on selling like this in the coming two years when MGS is cutting back on software support as the Nextbox is on the horizon?

Halo 4, GTA 5, Bioshock 3, Black Ops 2 next fall. Plus they will probably drop the price $50-$100. At least in America, 360 will sell better in 2012 than 2011. The Wii lacked the software support and bomba bin to age gracefully, the 360 has both.

 

[orion434]

Just my observation which may be way out of line. I think the expanded audience that the Wii created either moved on to other hobbies or "moved up," notice the quotes, over the course of this generation. I think those that discovered gaming with Wii Sports or Wii Fit over the course of 5 years moved straight past Mario Galaxy and Zelda and into Call of Duty and other mature games.

And so the people who were 8-10 when the Wii was released are now 13-15, are buying PS3's and 360's. And those that were 3 or 5 when the Wii was released are going to the 360 now instead of the Wii as their first system, because the media components and higher tech quality is appealing more to their parents, and with Kinect they still give you that safe and family fun early Wii experience. So basically Nintendo expanded the audience, a large portion of that audience moved toward the HD twins, and the 360 is doing a good job at least in the US and UK of becoming the new Wii for that young next generation

I have to agree, I know 4 families that have "upgraded" from the Wii to the Xbox 360 this holiday season. 3 of the 4 was because one of the sons wanted to play Call of Duty, and the parents don't care that a 10 to 13 year old kid is playing an M rated game. It's a social situation from what I've seen, the parents encourage the kids to play Call of Duty to "fit in" it's very strange, one of the 11 year old girls who is a cheerleader wants Lolipop Chainsaw...

 

[Psychotext]

one of the 11 year old girls who is a cheerleader wants Lolipop Chainsaw...

 

[Curufinwe]

We got one of those $99 Wiis for my parents-in-law, but my wife had to spend two hours in a Walmart on Thanksgiving night to get one. And then their HDTV only had one composite/component input and it was already being used by their DVD/VCR, so they had to plug the Wii in thru the DVD/VCR. A real IQ nightmare.

 

[-PXG-]

The whole Wii experiment has failed everyone. I bet Nintendo wished they had scrapped the idea altogether.

What? No It hasn't. Casual and gesture based gaming is huge now.

 

[orion434]

I explained to the mother what "kind" of game it is... I'm sure I'll hear from the mom in March.