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Who's in a worse position: Microsoft or Nintendo?

To start, this isn't a topic about which company makes the better consoles. Instead, I'd like to discuss which console is under the most threat from within its own company.

It seems like we have a new article about the Wii-U's dismal sales daily, but is that really the biggest issue for Nintendo when they have the 3DS to fall back on? Moreover, Nintendo is a company dedicated to video games and it'd be absolutely ludicrous for them to abandon their consoles when it's their bread and butter.

Having said that, Nintendo seem spread pretty thin and reports suggest they are struggling with HD development. Nintendo burned a lot of bridges with the Wii, both with third party developers and "core" gamers, which has made them rely heavily on a fickle, casual market that has seemingly abandoned them. Oh, and Nintendo's online infrastructure is not only archaic, but out of touch with every electronic device released in the last decade.

Now, Microsoft...

On the face of it, Microsoft's market share still seems sizeable. However, it seems like there is growing dissent amongst powerful Microsoft executives who are deeply unsatisfied with the focus on their entertainment division while their core business properties are floundering. I can't imagine, however minuscule, that a diminishing market share for the xbox brand is going to steady the ship and convince share holders that it is a viable market to penetrate.

Beyond that, Microsoft's first party offerings are severely limited compared to Sony and Nintendo's. Inarguably, Microsoft still has the support of major third party publishers, but as with the generation before this, there are very few third party publishers who are willing to supply any console with exclusivity.

On the face of it, I think it's easy to look at Wii-U numbers and point to the collapse of Nintendo, but they have no other choice but to march onwards. Microsoft, however, have no such incentive to watch their brand identity sink with its sales, no matter how minuscule.

Of course, feel free to disagree with me... That's why I made this thread.
 

Magwik

Banned
Ouya
I really don't see anyone collapsing. There will be changes in management and vision maybe, that's about it though.
 

Comandr

Member
Nintendo. Microsoft actually has support and is selling both old and current gen consoles by the truckload.
 
Nintendo obviously.
Microsofts only problem is that its price is 100$/€ higher than the PS4s. That can basically be fixed.
Nintendos problem is that they don't have any 3rd party support, weak hardware, no fanbases for big 3rd party franchises on their plattform and they don't have an online service that binds the people to their plattform.*
Friendlists and trophys/achievements are a big factor in deciding which console to get.

Nintendos problems can't be fixed.
 

Mrbob

Member
Umm, Nintendo by far. MS has support from all major 3rd parties. It isn't really close. Even though XB1 isn't PS4 level of demand doesn't mean it is Wii U level bad.
 

Riki

Member
Microsoft has released failing products one after another and is losing money in many segments.
Nintendo made a misstep with the WiiU, but is still making decent profit.

Neither is going anywhere for a long time, though.
 

[HP]

Member
Neither. Serious answer.

Nintendo has enough money to flop 3 or 4 more consoles.
And Xbox has more blind fanboys than it deserves, so it will always sell.
 
Microsoft.

Last I checked Nintendo was the one that didn't have any debt. Zero, Zip, Nada. Even w/ the WiiU struggling they're in no financial strait like MSoft is.
 
It seems like we have a new article about the Wii-U's dismal sales daily, but is that really the biggest issue for Nintendo when they have the 3DS to fall back on?

No OP, losing one of your two main revenue streams isn't a cause for concern...
 

Zoc

Member
Before the launch of the XBone, I might have said MS, but their console actually seems to be doing very well. If they ever figure out how to integrate their home consoles with their PC and mobile businesses they will be sitting on a goldmine.

Nintendo will just keep trucking along like it always has.
 
Xbone is breaking sales records barring the PS4, so they're more than fine. Dunno how much Nintendo can keep losing before they go panic mode.

Also, Microsoft has the rest of their business to fall back on lol.
 

UNCMark

Banned
[HP];93275467 said:
Neither. Serious answer.

Nintendo has enough money to flop 3 or 4 more consoles.
And Xbox has more blind fanboys than it deserves, so it will always sell.

The ability to flop over and over isn't an advantage.
 

entremet

Member
This is a ridiculous question. MS is selling consoles at a brisk pace, with great 3rd party support and it's 200 dollars more expensive.
 

Sean

Banned
Nintendo.

Their console is a complete flop and their handheld dominance is being challenged by the huge rise of mobile gaming.
 

Polo67

Member
Nintendo. MS is on the roll right now. Even at 500 USD it's neck and neck with the PS4. If the machine had come in at 400, wow I don't even want to imagine how insane sales wise it would be.
 
There is no way MS can be the worst. It will sell, even though not as good as PS4, and MS has enough money to get 3rd party on board.
 

Eiolon

Member
Nintendo, only because Microsoft has so many revenue sources outside of Xbox. But just because it is in worse position doesn't mean it is in a bad position.
 

FHIZ

Member
Nintendo. I'd think Microsoft is self aware enough to identify any potential problem and try to make changes to change direction, meanwhile, Nintendo just seems oblivious to the realities of the market.
 
Xbox division is in a worse position.

Nintendo has 3ds. Even if Wii U bombs, Nintendo has enough cash that they can live through it. It's not like Nintendo will suddenly become a non-gaming related company anyways.

Xbox division on the other hand, even if owned by extremely rich Microsoft, can be sold off if the suits find it not a good investment anymore. Microsoft's main business is Windows operating system and Office anyways. Also Xbox division being sold off to other companies doesn't mean the death of Xbox.
 

Dodecagon

works for a research lab making 6 figures
Microsoft.

Last I checked Nintendo was the one that didn't have any debt. Zero, Zip, Nada. Even w/ the WiiU struggling they're in no financial strait like MSoft is.

I think we're more likely to see Microsoft bow out of the console business before Nintendo. This is completely based on the larger Microsoft as mentioned by the OP, and not the success of their current consoles. Wii U is a dud.
 
Is this a serious question? MS has their product in almost every computer in the world. Also why isn't Sony mentioned? Didn't they have to sell a building just to capitalize?
 

NolbertoS

Member

Last time I checked too MS has a 2-4 Billion debt over its console liefespan from Xbox to present. Nintendo has no debt at all, even if the Wii U is selling zilch. I'd pick MS to sell the Xbox division moreso then Nintendo abandoning thr hardwarw business
 
If you look at overall company-wide marketshare trends, you see that Microsoft is in way, way worse shape. The decline in Windows' market-share alone is staggering year over year.
 

Gestault

Member
I like Nintendo a whole lot. I like their games, corporate culture and their platforms, but I think I can spell this out with a straightforward question:

Which business has more diverse business operations?

Is Nintendo at *ANY* risk in the short term? Heck no. I'm answering the question as stated. I'm a happy ongoing customer of Nintendo, and I know I'm not alone.
 

SPDIF

Member
Nintendo.

As for those investors at Microsoft, I think a series of posts I made a while back explains why I don't think it's much of an issue.

Despite what these investors might want, I still don't see it happening. Either way, we'll find out once the shareholders vote on November 19th. The most recent rumours suggest that the board are again backing Ballmer and Gates. If that happens, and Ballmer and Gates get re-elected, then I don't think they'll be spinning off the Xbox business anytime soon and Microsoft will continue forward as a devices and services company.

You guys do realize that this is Paul Allen, right? The "investor" is Vulcan Capital, Paul Allen's PE/VC.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think Vulcan are actually the ones who are pushing Microsoft to do this. The recent bump that this thread received was because Paul Ghaffari (of Vulcan) offered his opinion on the matter, where he simply agreed with ValueAct, who are the real ones with the actual prominent stake in Microsoft. Vulcan themselves (or Paul Allen) aren't actually involved much in this.

As I said in my post that you quoted, it seems that Gates and Ballmer are going to get re-elected. When/if that happens it won't really matter what Vulcan or ValueAct want, it's not going to happen. Ballmer is firmly behind the devices and services approach (and it seems to be working so far), and Gates (who would probably side with Ballmer regardless) wouldn't want to kill off what is essentially his baby in the Xbox.

Balmer is leaving in less than 12 months though. re-elected or not.

Stepping down as CEO yes. He's still going to be on the board though. With a stake that is only second to Gates. Both stakes combined will have enough sway in the company that ValueAct's 1% really won't make much difference.

It's not just ValueAct anymore who are looking to make big changes at Microsoft:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/microsoft-gates-resignation-investors_n_4026506.html

3 investors (likely including ValueAct) want rid of Gates...and they own over 5% of Microsoft between them, which is more than the 4.5% Gates owns (which he contractually has to sell off gradually until his stake is 0%) ValueAct are no longer alone in this venture.

But it isn't more than the 4.5% Gates owns combined with the 3.xx% that Ballmer owns. Again, come November 19th, despite what ValueAct want, despite what these other three investors want, Ballmer and Gates are almost certainly going to get re-elected. (I would be very surprised if they weren't, and if they're not then consider everything I say here a moot point.) When that happens then all this talk of selling off the Xbox business will have been worthless, and Microsoft will continue on with their devices and services plan.

Maybe in a few years, depending on how well Microsoft's hardware ventures are going, similar discussions will take place. But until then, the Xbox business is in no danger of going anywhere. Same deal for the Surface and Microsoft's phone business.

Today's November 19th. Ballmer and Gates were re-elected as expected. Nothing is guaranteed, but I see no need to be worried.
 
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